Tools from the old world

[dutchgray]

^^^^^ I've been told their chisels are a good deal but my local store never has any.

Stanley (Bost) after 3-4 years daily use. Tip didn't show any significant wear so was fully functional until it gave up completely today.

I would consider that pretty good life really, better that than gradually wearing out and mangling up screws for a while until you replace it.
The English made Stanley screwdrivers would do that sometimes as well, but others would wear, so there must have been some variance in them.

 

[dutchgray]

Hello addict experts,

Does anyone own any of these boxes? I would like to know if the items stored in the dividers are stay put and do not fly around when the lid is closed. It seems that there is no tight/ lock closure of the lid compared to other Raaco boxes where there is u/o profile to the lid for separating the dividers.

THANK YOU

View media item 86450

Small thin parts like washers will migrate into other compartments if you store or carry the box on its side, dont over fill them either as that pushes the lid up.
They are good quality though.

 

[Ruxpin]

Hello addict experts,

Does anyone own any of these boxes? I would like to know if the items stored in the dividers are stay put and do not fly around when the lid is closed. It seems that there is no tight/ lock closure of the lid compared to other Raaco boxes where there is u/o profile to the lid for separating the dividers.

THANK YOU

View media item 86450

I don't have experience with that exact box, but I have used Raaco storage cabinets and tool / storage boxes for a number of years, and expect that they use the same divider system in those.

The dividers simply fit into slots (i.e. the user can determine size of departments) which is fine, although for smaller parts the slight gap caused by "the division" not being flush means that small parts such as washers or similar can migrate between departments.

This photo (not mine) may help illustrate:
(Note that the yellow dividers are not Raaco product but are 3D printed in this scenario).

Not that big a deal, especially for static storage, so their suitably will depend on how you intend to use them.

Raaco products are generally good quality and still made in Denmark in my experience


ETA - As Dutch said (but more succinctly!)

 

[Ruxpin]

Visited my home town this weekend so took the opportunity to go in Machine Mart which has been there as long as I can remember. Think it's sort of the UK Harbour Freight. Mostly Chinese and Taiwan stuff. Some Wera out of reach behind the counter. Still fun to look around and handle the tools when you are used to mostly buying online. Staff were friendly.

Your photos have reminded me why I stopped going into Machine Mart a number of years ago.
A sweeping generalisation but it's cheap, poor quality items as far as the eye can see.
(Not trying to offend anyone here)

Maybe those air compressors are fine and if they do stock some Facom and Wera items then they will generally be of good quality, but are these out on display?

It's just depressing how local independent tool shops and ironmongers have been phased out and replaced by such bigger companies and the somewhat obsessive race to the bottom in item cost being the driving force behind consumer purchases.

I sound like a bitter old man (I sort of am) but I'm not even into my late 30's yet!!

 

[Ruxpin]

Just to balance out my moan, here are some tools from the old world.

I have a couple of little jobs planned involving drilling some hardened steel and also drilling out some broken automotive fasteners, so the only logical thing to do was to buy some new cobalt and carbide drill bits from Alpen.

Bonus glass / ceramic drill bit in there too which should come in handy at some point.

View media item 85853

 

[losvre]

Thank you Dutchgray, Ruxpin,

If I go for the larger ones there is definitely good separation however I need the smaller ones.

I think it would be ok either way though.

I keep all posted.


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[Alaniho]

^^^^^ I've been told their chisels are a good deal but my local store never has any.

Stanley (Bost) after 3-4 years daily use. Tip didn't show any significant wear so was fully functional until it gave up completely today.

Thats good for especially for a PZ1 in daily use, and i like the way the text has still not worn off . I really like these Bost/Stanley drivers, definitely still one of their best offerings. They seem to be phasing these out now in favor of cheaper made junk though, so get them while they are still available.

 

[mr.lemons]

Your photos have reminded me why I stopped going into Machine Mart a number of years ago.
A sweeping generalisation but it's cheap, poor quality items as far as the eye can see.
(Not trying to offend anyone here)

Maybe those air compressors are fine and if they do stock some Facom and Wera items then they will generally be of good quality, but are these out on display?

It's just depressing how local independent tool shops and ironmongers have been phased out and replaced by such bigger companies and the somewhat obsessive race to the bottom in item cost being the driving force behind consumer purchases.

I sound like a bitter old man (I sort of am) but I'm not even into my late 30's yet!!

For Facom I ordered online with free click and collect in store. Gave me an excuse to visit. Didn't see any Facom in store or any other 'desirable' brand hand tools apart from Wera and some blue Bosch power tools. Not sure who shops their. Kind of expect it to go the same way as Maplin Then we will just have B&Q. To be fair some of their stuff may be good for the price.

ive had some shipping issues lately. they sent me a few doubles of these pb swiss. oh well im not gonna complain

Wish I had those shipping issues. Nice pliers

 

[upgrading]

Ho Ho Ho !
It is Wera 2018 Advent Calendar time.
https://www.kctoolco.com/wera-advent-calendar-2018/

 

[Qualitytools]

It's interesting that they show a Zyclop ratchet in the photo of the advent calendar but it's not included, a bit misleading!

 

[Fedwrench]

It's interesting that they show a Zyclop ratchet in the photo of the advent calendar but it's not included, a bit misleading!

Perhaps but, I don't think anything Santa has is included.

 

[node105]

Knipex welding clamps 42 44 280

these Knipex 'Welding Grip Pliers' arrived today (from TBSAachen). Companions to the recent Fireball welding squares.

Note they are stamped "Made in Germany" ( not just 'Germany')


.

 

[mrspeed]

Does anyone know anything about these locking pliers, like where they're made and by whom?

First up is a pair of SAM Outillage 212-22 automatic locking pliers. They don't appear to be to be Dolex, and there is no COO anywhere on them or the box they came in. They are probably the nicest, most solid feeling locking pliers I have, and that includes a large assortment of Grip-on and Bollman-Selzer pliers. There's almost no play in the jaws, the finish seems flawless on every surface, and even the internal levers and springs are all high polish chrome.

Next up is Facom 512 welding grip pliers. Once again no COO on the package or pliers. They seem as nice and very similar to the Knipex (Bollman-Selzer) pliers, but they have a slightly different shape, different rivets, and a different weld by the adjustment screw. To me, they look closest to Dolex welding pliers, though the weld looks different there as well.

https://www.dolex.fr/en/clamping-tools/lock-grip-pliers/lock-grip-pliers/pso280/pso280/#prettyPhoto



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[Cynical huckster]

Does anyone know anything about these locking pliers, like where they're made and by whom?

First up is a pair of SAM Outillage 212-22 automatic locking pliers. They don't appear to be to be Dolex, and there is no COO anywhere on them or the box they came in. They are probably the nicest, most solid feeling locking pliers I have, and that includes a large assortment of Grip-on and Bollman-Selzer pliers. There's almost no play in the jaws, the finish seems flawless on every surface, and even the internal levers and springs are all high polish chrome.

Next up is Facom 512 welding grip pliers. Once again no COO on the package or pliers. They seem as nice and very similar to the Knipex (Bollman-Selzer) pliers, but they have a slightly different shape, different rivets, and a different weld by the adjustment screw. To me, they look closest to Dolex welding pliers, though the weld looks different there as well.

Facom 512 lock grip clamp is made in China. Speaking of SAM, they usually write "goods are EU origin, except (reference number)" in the invoice. But I have not ordered SAM locking pliers yet, so I can't tell you anything about it.

 

[mrspeed]

Facom 512 lock grip clamp is made in China. Speaking of SAM, they usually write "goods are EU origin, except (reference number)" in the invoice. But I have not ordered SAM locking pliers yet, so I can't tell you anything about it.

Where do you find info like the COO for the Facom 512's? Something you know from working at/with/near the company, somewhere online, or contacting someone? I couldn't even find Facom's support contact info on their website.

For the SAM pliers, I ordered from Amazon.de, so there was no SAM invoice with it for me to check. The Amazon invoice had no info other than the product name.

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[Monte]

What would this Bulldog be in Germany? I have not seen a Bulldog labelled Bosch here.

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B000BB79Q6/

Does anyone know anything about these locking pliers, like where they're made and by whom?

maybe a redesigned romanian MOB pair of pliers ?

There is also a japanese supplier:
https://www.supertool.co.jp/english/products/products.php?eid=00084


News from Metabo:

 

[Cynical huckster]

Where do you find info like the COO for the Facom 512's? Something you know from working at/with/near the company, somewhere online, or contacting someone? I couldn't even find Facom's support contact info on their website.

I found this info in Facom export price list. The COO is indicated there for each reference. I don't have Facom in stock, but I supply it on demand from time to time, if the client is willing to give an advance payment and wait few weeks.

 

[Ruxpin]

As posted by another member in the main tool forum here:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401540

WERA ADVENT CALENDAR 2018

I've had a couple of the Wera advent calendars a few years back and they are pretty good.

This years selection actually looks like a useful set to keep in the house for quick jobs.

I made the mistake of leaving a previous set like this (with the non VDE exchangeable blades) in a wet environment and the blades rusted very aggressively due to them being non-treated.

Also the standard green handled Wera bottle opener is the best opener I've ever used and it lives in the kitchen permanently.
Now, do I "need" a glow in the dark version...??!!

 

[Ruxpin]

For Facom I ordered online with free click and collect in store. Gave me an excuse to visit. Didn't see any Facom in store or any other 'desirable' brand hand tools apart from Wera and some blue Bosch power tools. Not sure who shops their. Kind of expect it to go the same way as Maplin Then we will just have B&Q. To be fair some of their stuff may be good for the price.

Ahh, I didn't realise Machine Mart did click and collect on Facom items. That's pretty good, and I can't think of any other national chain that offers this on the high street / retail park. Could be a good option in an emergency.

I expect some of the cheaper items they stock are good for the price, no doubt. I too wonder who shops there anymore. Most normal trades people I have dealings with just seem to use their accounts at Plumbers merchants / Builders merchants or Screwfix / Wickes. Maybe Toolstation or the like occasionally.

 

[Ruxpin]

However, if you're the sort of person that loves a multi-tool and wants to keep a bottle opener to hand whilst working with stainless / inox fasteners then worry not, because Wera have just the product for you!

http://products.wera.de/en/innovations_and_autumn_winter_campaign_2018_2019_kraftform_kompakt_christmas_2018_stainless.html

As a Christmas 2018 promotion they have released a compact bit holder screwdriver with a bottle opener:

I still prefer the normal bottle opener!

 

[mrspeed]

maybe a redesigned romanian MOB pair of pliers ?

Interesting, thanks. To my eye though, the MOB 9306 pliers look identical to the Dolex BC220 pliers, except for slightly different rivets.

Otherwise, the shapes of the upper and lower handles seem to be the same, the rivet locations are all the same, the pin style in the 4-step adjustment mechanism is the same, etc. There is a tiny gap between curved edges of the upper and lower handles near the mouth of the pliers in the MOB that doesn't appear in the Dolex, but it's slight enough that it could just be the difference in camera angles, where the Dolex picture doesn't show it.

Contrast that with the SAM pliers, in which both the top and bottom handles have very different shapes than the MOB/Dolex, especially where they come together near the mouth of the pliers, as well as having very different styles of rivets as well as a different type of pin in the adjustment mechanism.

Of course these could all just be attributed to different revisions of the design, or options in the manufacturing. But it seems like the SAM pliers have as much chance of being supplied by Dolex as they do MOB, especially since Dolex is also French like SAM. Maybe the MOB pliers are also made by Dolex?

I found this info in Facom export price list. The COO is indicated there for each reference. I don't have Facom in stock, but I supply it on demand from time to time, if the client is willing to give an advance payment and wait few weeks.

Brilliant! But lame that they're made in China. Not what I was hoping to hear. They're not bad quality per se, but they just don't seem as special I guess.

 

[Cynical huckster]

Brilliant! But lame that they're made in China. Not what I was hoping to hear. They're not bad quality per se, but they just don't seem as special I guess.

And what can you say about SAM quality compared to Facom? What do you like better?

EDC knife Ira Domini (Lat. Lord’s Anger). Made in Ukraine by Blade Brothers Knives. By the way, they sell and ship their products worldwide

 

[mr.lemons]

Wera drivers compared to the Stanley posted earlier. Used in the same environment. Never had a Wera driver catastrophically fail like the Stanley but they get chewed up relatively quickly which causes issues with slipping and damaging screws. I'm not criticizing either, just posting that I have found a difference in their design which I think is interesting.

Stanley tips are definitely harder than the Wera but more brittle. I guess this is a trade off manufacturers have to work with. Not knowing anything about metal hardening and finishes I wonder if this is a deliberate decision from Wera to prioritise maximum torque capability rather than longevity. Not actually sure it works that way. Would be interested to know if Wera drivers can handle more torque than the Stanley before failing. Need to educate myself.

 

[mr.lemons]

While digging around in the lost and forgotten tools box I found a Eclipse nut driver mark 'Sheffield England.' I had no idea but Eclipse was a significant tool company in the UK.

Random fact about Eclipse from Wiki....'Eclipse made the world's first composite steel hacksaw blade in 1911. The company began manufacturing hacksaws in 1924. All hacksaws are now built according to their design.'

More info. Quoted from another forum (thanks to Tyrone).
According to my " James Neill " Tool Users Handbook the story started in Sheffield in 1889 when a guy called James Neill gave his job up as an accountant and started making steel ( that wouldn't happen today ). A few years later on he chose the trademark " Eclipse ". He first made his fortune by making a very successful range of hacksaw blades. During World War 1 he was tasked with making permanent magnets as the supply from Germany had dried up.
This lead to the invention of the first permanent magnetic chuck in 1934, this established " Eclipse " as a World leader in the field of magnetic chucks.
In 1966 they bought out " Peter Stubbs " makers of files and tool steel.
" John Shaw, Wolverhampton limited " was brought into the group in 1970, they owned " Britool " makers of top quality spanners ( wrenches ) and " Moore & Wright " makers of engineers fine tools.
In 1971 they bought out " Elliot Lucas " at that time the UK's leading manufacturer of pliers along with " Abbey Dropforgings " who were the main source of forgings for " Elliot Lucas " and " Britool ".

If I have got my history correct. Eclipse became part of Spear and Jackson who moved production to China. Depending on its age the nut driver was possibly made in China and 'finished' in England.

 

[mr.lemons]

Bahco 1/4 deep sockets. Made in Taiwan.

Maybe not as desirable as German sockets. Got them to go with this set which for £18 is surprisingly good. Bought it a few years ago and cannot find a reason to upgrade apart from tool brand snobbery. Blemish free satin finish, knurling and a smooth (60 tooth) stubby ratchet all in a cute box that fits in my pocket. Weird though that the deep sockets don't fit on to the wobble extension all the way so stay wobbly.

 

[mr.lemons]

Talco impact driver. Second hand but looks unused. Made in Taiwan. Never used one before so looking forward to bashing on it.

 

[mrspeed]

And what can you say about SAM quality compared to Facom? What do you like better?

Hard to compare them directly since they're totally different styles of pliers. I have some Facom needle nose pliers though that are probably my favorites out of Gedore, Knipex, NWS, Klein, and Channellock. I have some SAM needle nose pliers on the way, so I'll be able to compare them when they come in.

I can compare the Made in China Facom welding locking pliers to the Made in Germany Bollmann-Selzer/Knipex/Elora welding locking pliers though. The Facom's have a rougher finish that isn't as comfortable to hold, almost like extremely fine grit sandpaper. The chrome plating is also slightly less even around the edges. That said, they weigh about the same and at least they seem about as sturdy. One issue I noticed is that when you pull the release lever on the Facom's, the handle springs open quickly with a lot of force like it's going to shoot out of your hands, whereas the Bollmann-Selzer pliers open confidently, but don't feel like they're going to shoot out of your hands.



I also just got a new made in South Africa Gedore adjustable wrench today, which completes my recent purchases of adjustable wrenches to compare.

The top two, the Irega and the comfort grip, reversible jaw Bahco wrenches are both made in Spain. The VDE Elora adjustable wrench is made in Germany. The middle Bahco and Elora adjustable wrenches have no COO. Anyone know where these are made? They're the Bahco 8701 and Elora 61-MB.

The Irega with the thumb screw adjustment has the absolute least amount of play in the jaw, almost none whatsoever. But it also takes the longest to adjust, as it's a more fine adjustment with a wide range in the jaw capacity. It seems like the 771s with the end screw aren't made anymore? I didn't see them on the Irega website anyway.

After that I'd say the 6in Gedore adjustable wrench has the next least amount of play despite being the smallest. It feels light but strong. The rest are all basically the same, good but still some play in the jaw.

The Elora VDE wrench has the nicest finish, and then after that probably the two bahco wrenches, then the Irega and Gedore.





The only weird thing is that the Gedore wrench has some weird surface coating inside the jaws that looks like it's coming off already just having been opened.




And then finally, I got a new pair of Grip-on rebranded SAM locking pliers with an adjustable copper swivel clamp.

Once again, curiously, they lack the Made in Spain stamp that the Grip-on's have on the opposite side. However, you can see that they're identical to the actual Grip-on version. The only other difference is that the jaw on the Grip-on pliers is aluminum while the jaw on the SAM pliers is steel. This makes the SAM pliers about 200 grams heavier.




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[Mr MoAiZo]

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B000BB79Q6/

Interesting. 120V though.

 

[dutchgray]

While digging around in the lost and forgotten tools box I found a Eclipse nut driver mark 'Sheffield England.' I had no idea but Eclipse was a significant tool company in the UK.

Random fact about Eclipse from Wiki....'Eclipse made the world's first composite steel hacksaw blade in 1911. The company began manufacturing hacksaws in 1924. All hacksaws are now built according to their design.'

More info. Quoted from another forum (thanks to Tyrone).
According to my " James Neill " Tool Users Handbook the story started in Sheffield in 1889 when a guy called James Neill gave his job up as an accountant and started making steel ( that wouldn't happen today ). A few years later on he chose the trademark " Eclipse ". He first made his fortune by making a very successful range of hacksaw blades. During World War 1 he was tasked with making permanent magnets as the supply from Germany had dried up.
This lead to the invention of the first permanent magnetic chuck in 1934, this established " Eclipse " as a World leader in the field of magnetic chucks.
In 1966 they bought out " Peter Stubbs " makers of files and tool steel.
" John Shaw, Wolverhampton limited " was brought into the group in 1970, they owned " Britool " makers of top quality spanners ( wrenches ) and " Moore & Wright " makers of engineers fine tools.
In 1971 they bought out " Elliot Lucas " at that time the UK's leading manufacturer of pliers along with " Abbey Dropforgings " who were the main source of forgings for " Elliot Lucas " and " Britool ".

If I have got my history correct. Eclipse became part of Spear and Jackson who moved production to China. Depending on its age the nut driver was possibly made in China and 'finished' in England.

Looks like a Spiralux shaft with an Eclipse handle to me.

 

[Qualitytools]

However, if you're the sort of person that loves a multi-tool and wants to keep a bottle opener to hand whilst working with stainless / inox fasteners then worry not, because Wera have just the product for you!

http://products.wera.de/en/innovations_and_autumn_winter_campaign_2018_2019_kraftform_kompakt_christmas_2018_stainless.html

As a Christmas 2018 promotion they have released a compact bit holder screwdriver with a bottle opener:

I still prefer the normal bottle opener!

Very clever!

 

[mr.lemons]

Looks like a Spiralux shaft with an Eclipse handle to me.

Hollands & Blair (Spiralux). Another British tool brand I wasn't aware of. Thanks for the info.

 

[101% Loko]

Old Facom Isoryl Screwdrivers (2x PH2 Long, PH3, PH4)

 

[Negen]

Old Facom Isoryl Screwdrivers (2x PH2 Long, PH3, PH4)

Do those handles have sharp edges them ? I bought the normal length drivers and I ended up using 1000 and 2000 grit sand paper to smooth out the edges.

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[Kasal]

Bahco 8150sl / 5, although the label says that manufactured in Spain, the conveyor (125 mm) and the dice (13,17.19 mm) come with a label made in Argentina.

 

[mr.lemons]

^^^^^ Is that a relatively new design? They also have a roto on their website I don't think I've seen before.

 

[Kasal]

^^^^^ Is that a relatively new design? They also have a roto on their website I don't think I've seen before.

In the catalog marks it as a novelty, it is available in 1/4 3/8 1/2

 

[Dave455]

Wera drivers compared to the Stanley posted earlier. Used in the same environment. Never had a Wera driver catastrophically fail like the Stanley but they get chewed up relatively quickly...

]

You may be aware of this, but those are the ‘economy’ Wera drivers that you can often pick up very cheap.

I’m not particularly a Wera fan, but you will find that their regular drivers have much tougher blades.

When you compare the two, you can see the difference!

 

[mr.lemons]

^^^ Can you confirm this? I don't know much about Wera and cannot find a more premium range that is ESD compliant. If they are the budget range it would certainly explain a lot.

Edit. Asking as I'm interested, not to be argumentative

 

[mrspeed]

You may be aware of this, but those are the ‘economy’ Wera drivers that you can often pick up very cheap.

I’m not particularly a Wera fan, but you will find that their regular drivers have much tougher blades.

When you compare the two, you can see the difference!

^^^ Can you confirm this? I don't know much about Wera and cannot find a more premium range that is ESD compliant. If they are the budget range it would certainly explain a lot.

Edit. Asking as I'm interested, not to be argumentative

I believe they're referring to the Kraftform Plus screwdrivers versus the Kraftform Comfort screwdrivers. Looking at the Wera catalogue, I think the main differences are the laser-etched tips for the Plus versus the black-oxide hardened tips for the Comfort, and the soft-rubber-inserts in the handles for the Plus versus the standard handles for the Plus.

While the VDE screwdrivers come in both Comfort and Plus varieties, it looks to me like the ESD full-size screwdrivers only come in Comfort.

My understanding is that the ESD dissipative properties are primarily a function of the handle (similar to VDE insulating properties), so I wonder if the reason they don't offer the ESD screwdrivers in Plus is due to issues getting the right dissipation with the rubberized inserts in the handle. Then again, it doesn't seem to prevent them from providing the rubberized inserts in the precision ESD screwdrivers. Who knows?

 

[mrspeed]

Anyone know the COO for these Facom 195.20G bent nose pliers? I was hoping France, but once again, no COO on the pliers or package, so I'm wondering if there made in China. They seem really well finished though, aside from what looks like some glue inside the jaws.



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