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Tools from the old world

superautobacs

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Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
3,997
Location
Vancouver, BC
No COO, but I think it's made in Taiwan.
This set was sold in Brazil between 2000 and 2005 +/- (By CooperTools)

1/4 = 45 theet

Seems 'fragile' but works very well and confortable.

Like to Stahlwille 450

That's pretty cool. I had the opportunity to play around with a NOS Stahlwille 450 at a tool shop in Japan and although it wasn't something that I'd walk home with, it was interesting to know that it must've been a new trend in the European tool industry to produce a composite ratchet like that. Being able to adjust the direction from the grip is a great idea. Other companies like Sandvik-Belzer had the model 8155, and Carolus had the Conterflex series ratchets offering the same feature. I wonder if such a feature will have a comeback in the near future.

1979_2_2.jpg
 
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Qualitytools

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Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
2,850
Location
SOCAL
Hi guys. Just got some pretty unusual locking pliers -- Facom 506APB.

What makes them unusual is that they open up REALLY wide and also have a hinged lower jaw. The adjustment screw is a knurled barrel on the top handle, and the release trigger is on the lower handle.

Well, rather than trying to describe them in words, maybe it would be better to just show some pictures.

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Some close-ups of the jaws. As I mentioned, the bottom jaw is hinged. The teeth extend around to the inner surface. The upper jaw has a slot in it, presumably for grabbing nails or bolts?

View media item 87723
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Here they are opened up. They would actually go a bit wider if you loosened the adjustment screw all the way. The specs say they can handle a cylindrical object up to 100mm in diameter.
The lower jaw has about 5mm of lateral slop in it when unloaded (as you'd expect from the stepped hinge design), but when the tool is clamped down, it's pretty damn rigid.

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As you can kind of see from the pictures, they are made in France.

I had seen these before but not as close with the details you give, very nice! I can see the use for one of these myself. Did you purchase these in Japan or elsewhere and how much may I ask?
 

tanukiboy

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Joined
Dec 24, 2016
Messages
314
Location
Japan
I had seen these before but not as close with the details you give, very nice! I can see the use for one of these myself. Did you purchase these in Japan or elsewhere and how much may I ask?

Hi Qualitytools.

I got them from Amazon Japan. The price was $43. I have to say, though, that finding Facom locking pliers is really hard. A variety of models are listed at Amazon Japan, but almost all are marked "currently unavailable".

Amazon US seems even worse, with third-party sellers offering them at exorbitant prices (>$150!).

I wouldn't mind picking up a few of the other models, but it seems that the best bet (from Amazon at least) might be to order them from one of their European branches.

PS. Just checked, and Amazon UK seems to have a pretty good selection in stock at reasonable prices.
 

losvre

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Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
1,199
Location
UK
Do you think this blade is having cobalt or it is just the name?baaf9a151c1fc8d96615a926e5226b89.jpg2f68e14038053a656bb6651841fbe707.jpg

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
 

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mr.lemons

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Oct 24, 2017
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2,191
Location
UK
Does anyone know if these are made by Facom so at least made in Taiwan and cut above the £10 sets please?

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Tonyuk

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Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Messages
1,539
Location
Scotland
I have those, im sure they're from Taiwan.

They're good quality, but i've seen similar quality on amazon so long as you dont spring for the cheapest option.

Only about £50 for the set here though, so not much more expensive then buying them all separately.
 

losvre

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Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
1,199
Location
UK

Ruxpin

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Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
124
Location
England
Some more PB Swiss items.

These sets are replacing cheap items I bought when I first started working on cars whereby I now wanted better quality.

It was a toss up between these and the Ko-Ken equivalents, but I am glad I went for the PB Swiss.
If the hose pluckers featured the classic hard handle (as per the trim clip removal tools) I would be even happier, but even so I am pleased with these and I see no reason why they won't last a very long time.

Pleasingly, the quality and ergonomics of these items is just as high as the other PB Swiss tools I use. Note the rounded tip of the hose plucker point. Both pluckers are the same tip finish, although it was difficult to photograph this ("focus you fark!").

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mr.lemons

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Joined
Oct 24, 2017
Messages
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Location
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mr.lemons

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2017
Messages
2,191
Location
UK
Facom SXL.171 1/2 extendable flex head ratchet.

IMG-4940.jpg


IMG-4938.jpg


Been curious and skeptical about this one for a while. Online reviews and first hand accounts were hard to find which could be because no one else has been daft enough to buy one. My tools need to be portable so I like the idea of one ratchet to replace two or three.

IMG-4941-2.jpg


72 tooth. Sealed head with quick release and recessed direction lever.

IMG-4949.jpg


Compared to Facom S.161B standard 1/2 ratchet.

IMG-4953.jpg


The SXL.171 feels much heavier and bulkier than the S.161B.

IMG-4961.jpg


Just over twice as heavy.

IMG-4962.jpg


From 305mm to 435mm.

IMG-4955.jpg


Pull down on the sprung collar to extend.

IMG-4974.jpg


Eight positions.

IMG-4970.jpg


Flexes just past 90 degrees forwards and backwards.

IMG-4977.jpg


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Flex head can be tightened via T30 torx.

IMG-4983.jpg


No COO on the ratchet or packaging. :(

Facom discontinued the S.153A which is a fairer weight comparison. (750g Length = 405mm)

facom-s153a-1-2-square-drive-long-hinged-round-head-ratchet-comf.jpg
 
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mrspeed

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Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
473
Does anyone know anything about these locking pliers, like where they're made and by whom?

First up is a pair of SAM Outillage 212-22 automatic locking pliers. They don't appear to be to be Dolex, and there is no COO anywhere on them or the box they came in. They are probably the nicest, most solid feeling locking pliers I have, and that includes a large assortment of Grip-on and Bollman-Selzer pliers. There's almost no play in the jaws, the finish seems flawless on every surface, and even the internal levers and springs are all high polish chrome.

Next up is Facom 512 welding grip pliers. Once again no COO on the package or pliers. They seem as nice and very similar to the Knipex (Bollman-Selzer) pliers, but they have a slightly different shape, different rivets, and a different weld by the adjustment screw. To me, they look closest to Dolex welding pliers, though the weld looks different there as well.

https://www.dolex.fr/en/clamping-tools/lock-grip-pliers/lock-grip-pliers/pso280/pso280/#prettyPhoto

MVIMG_20180905_230226.jpegMVIMG_20180905_230250.jpegIMG_20180905_230412~3.jpegIMG_20180905_230430~3.jpgIMG_20180905_230512~2.jpegIMG_20180905_230528~2.jpegIMG_20180905_230553.jpg

maybe a redesigned romanian MOB pair of pliers ?
2014-07-14-3060.jpg

Interesting, thanks. To my eye though, the MOB 9306 pliers look identical to the Dolex BC220 pliers, except for slightly different rivets.

PinceEtaux_BC220.jpg


Otherwise, the shapes of the upper and lower handles seem to be the same, the rivet locations are all the same, the pin style in the 4-step adjustment mechanism is the same, etc. There is a tiny gap between curved edges of the upper and lower handles near the mouth of the pliers in the MOB that doesn't appear in the Dolex, but it's slight enough that it could just be the difference in camera angles, where the Dolex picture doesn't show it.

Contrast that with the SAM pliers, in which both the top and bottom handles have very different shapes than the MOB/Dolex, especially where they come together near the mouth of the pliers, as well as having very different styles of rivets as well as a different type of pin in the adjustment mechanism.

Of course these could all just be attributed to different revisions of the design, or options in the manufacturing. But it seems like the SAM pliers have as much chance of being supplied by Dolex as they do MOB, especially since Dolex is also French like SAM. Maybe the MOB pliers are also made by Dolex?

Quick update, I found other pliers identical to the SAM Outillage automatic locking pliers I previously posted. They are called Anchor Bite pliers,, and it seems like they were originally made by a company called Anchor Brand. However, it seems like this company isn't around anymore, as I can't find any info on them, and their website anchorbrand.com no longer exists.

They're now marketed by a company called Dent Fix.

I found one site that lists them as being made in the USA. However, I ordered a set, and I don't think they're made in the US. An American company making a product in America would have it marked all over the packaging and product, and these don't mention the COO anywhere. Not sure how they get away with selling a product in the US with no COO indicated anywhere.

Side by side, the Dent Fix versions are different in small ways, but appear to me to be the same pliers. What's really interesting though is that the slight differences I pointed out between the SAM and the MOB pliers you posted are also different between the SAM and the Dent Fix pliers, which is to say the Dent Fix versions do look identical to the MOB pliers, which in turn look identical to the Dolex pliers I posted with the exception of [probably] not being made in France. The only difference I can see is the adjustment pin.

I feel like the origin of these pliers is getting more mysterious rather than less.

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tanukiboy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2016
Messages
314
Location
Japan
Quick update, I found other pliers identical to the SAM Outillage automatic locking pliers I previously posted. They are called Anchor Bite pliers,, and it seems like they were originally made by a company called Anchor Brand. However, it seems like this company isn't around anymore, as I can't find any info on them, and their website anchorbrand.com no longer exists.

They're now marketed by a company called Dent Fix.

I found one site that lists them as being made in the USA. However, I ordered a set, and I don't think they're made in the US. An American company making a product in America would have it marked all over the packaging and product, and these don't mention the COO anywhere. Not sure how they get away with selling a product in the US with no COO indicated anywhere.

Side by side, the Dent Fix versions are different in small ways, but appear to me to be the same pliers. What's really interesting though is that the slight differences I pointed out between the SAM and the MOB pliers you posted are also different between the SAM and the Dent Fix pliers, which is to say the Dent Fix versions do look identical to the MOB pliers, which in turn look identical to the Dolex pliers I posted with the exception of [probably] not being made in France. The only difference I can see is the adjustment pin.

I feel like the origin of these pliers is getting more mysterious rather than less.

You probably saw these FACOM locking pliers I posted about maybe a week or so ago. So similar in many ways, but also some major differences, particularly the trigger release. They are stamped "MADE IN FRANCE".

View media item 87722
 

mrspeed

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Apr 19, 2017
Messages
473
They're made in Taiwan.
Interesting. Someone in the eBay deals thread I posted the Dent Fix pliers to said they did research and found the COO was China. Now I don't know what to believe.

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mrspeed

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Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
473
Oh yeah, I saw your post! Those look awesome. I've been keeping an eye out for any good deals on the few models of locking pliers that Facom still makes looked the 501s.

I haven't found a deal on this yet, but I did get these awesome Beta Tools pliers.

IMG_20181019_200924.jpgIMG_20181019_200949.jpgIMG_20181019_201008.jpg

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maico

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Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
711
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England
Hello everybody!
This is my first post... I found the site years ago when searching for quality handtools.
Pictures of my last purchase:

Those updated Knipex plier wrenchs look to have significantly better handles
 

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maico

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Nov 21, 2014
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I've got the conventional jaw Facom 501A, in terms of high price and quality a Rolls Royce type product made in France like Dolex

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/IMG_2539.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_2539.jpg"/></a>

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PureLeaf

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Jul 25, 2014
Messages
1,417
Got a good deal on a new forged Gedore Vise through Amazon's pricing screw ups. 150mm jaw width (6 inches). It appears to be an FZA vise. All documentation on their website says "made in italy" but I'll admit I'm a little disappointed it doesn't appear to be stamped anywhere. All the Gedore markings are just cheap stickers. Anyways seems like a very decent vise, very similar to my Ridgid (peddinghaus) vises in mechanism and operation. Neither of which are quite as smooth as my Wilton 8400, but I much prefer to wrench on a forged vise than a ductile iron one.

The one amusing thing is the vise came with 2 grade 8 black oxide identical bolts, but 2 different nuts for mounting so only one nut actually matches up to the bolts. The other one is about 2 sizes too large. Not sure how a mistake like that happens.


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Alaniho

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Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
183
Location
Ireland
@Monte: I would ask you by private message, but your inbox is full.
I am searching for a good bench grinder for my shop.
What would you choose between a Bosch - GBG 60-20 (600 W) and a Bernardo DS 200 S (three phase, 1250 W). The price is the same.
Or can you recommend something else?

Thanks!

In Europe it's hard to get better than Creusen for bench grinders and polishers both single and 3 phase. The make the machines and motors in Holland and quality is excellent. Email them directly and they will find you a dealer.

http://www.creusen.nl
 

tanukiboy

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Joined
Dec 24, 2016
Messages
314
Location
Japan
Is this style of pliers used strictly for clamping duties rather than gripping and turning like standard locking pliers? :headscrat

The hinged lower jaw moves the Facom 506A farther toward "clamp" territory IMO. The 501A model posted by maico seems more like "pliers".
 

maico

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Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
711
Location
England
Talking of vises I recently bought a large Heuer 180mm to keep my 120mm company.
Forged steel, made in Germany and guaranteed unbreakable...The 180 is certainly very solid and heavy with no play but can still be opened with one finger. It's mounted on the optional turntable and the 120 on a table clamp that I use around the house.

Heuer make various types of magnetic jaw covers. The 120 is fitted with felt ones and I've got smooth alloy ones for the 180.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/IMG_2608.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_2608.jpg"/></a>

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Carquest

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Nov 29, 2016
Messages
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Location
South Carolina
Talking of vises I recently bought a large Heuer 180mm to keep my 120mm company.
Forged steel, made in Germany and guaranteed unbreakable...The 180 is certainly very solid and heavy with no play but can still be opened with one finger. It's mounted on the optional turntable and the 120 on a table clamp that I use around the house.

Heuer make various types of magnetic jaw covers. The 120 is fitted with felt ones and I've got smooth alloy ones for the 180.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/IMG_2608.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_2608.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/IMG_2614.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_2614.jpg"/></a>

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And seem very reasonably priced from looking at them on Jens website. Is this considered on par with Wilton?


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maico

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Nov 21, 2014
Messages
711
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England
Carquest, well I'm in the UK and the Heuer is cheaper. I paid £120 GBP for the 120.
Looking at the highly automated Heuer factory video on youtube they must be the largest western vise manufactuer.
 

maico

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Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
711
Location
England
Got a good deal on a new forged Gedore Vise through Amazon's pricing screw ups. 150mm jaw width (6 inches). It appears to be an FZA vise. All documentation on their website says "made in italy" but I'll admit I'm a little disappointed it doesn't appear to be stamped anywhere. All the Gedore markings are just cheap stickers. Anyways seems like a very decent vise, very similar to my Ridgid (peddinghaus) vises in mechanism and operation. Neither of which are quite as smooth as my Wilton 8400, but I much prefer to wrench on a forged vise than a ductile iron one.

The one amusing thing is the vise came with 2 grade 8 black oxide identical bolts, but 2 different nuts for mounting so only one nut actually matches up to the bolts. The other one is about 2 sizes too large. Not sure how a mistake like that happens.


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Kanca make a similar vise in Turkey. They make good vises and supply Hazet but their designs are derivative. I don't think Heuer like their 'clone' K2 model...
 

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PureLeaf

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Jul 25, 2014
Messages
1,417
Kanca make a similar vise in Turkey. They make good vises and supply Hazet but their designs are derivative. I don't think Heuer like their 'clone' K2 model...

I think the Kanca is a closer clone of the FZA vise than it is the Heuer? Don't you? Especially how it uses those hex screws on the side for alignment just like the FZA vise. Thats also why I am surprised FZA doesn't stamp made in italy somewhere on the vise. From the FZA literature I've seen, this is definitely the FZA Mondial, not a Kanca vise.
 

maico

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Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
711
Location
England
I think the Kanca is a closer clone of the FZA vise than it is the Heuer? Don't you? Especially how it uses those hex screws on the side for alignment just like the FZA vise. Thats also why I am surprised FZA doesn't stamp made in italy somewhere on the vise. From the FZA literature I've seen, this is definitely the FZA Mondial, not a Kanca vise.

I think the Kanka K2 it's almost identical apart from have 2 instead of 1 side bolts. Note the Y channel beam construction similar to the Heuer bellow. Heuer started this type of construction in the 1930's

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/aforrester/100_detail2.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 100_detail2.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/aforrester/100_schnitt.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 100_schnitt.jpg"/></a>

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1940s Front
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/aforrester/HeuerFront-mit-Garantieschein_WWWheader.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo HeuerFront-mit-Garantieschein_WWWheader.jpg"/></a>
 
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