Tools from the old world
- Thread starter Monte
- Start date
Back in April I made a list of all the western companies still making vises. I found 19 of them excluding Japanese manufactured which are hard to get hold of in the West.
In part, it was to disprove the commonly held notion that everything is made in China. That may be true for consumer electronics but not tools.
Enjoy:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7172379&postcount=28842
In part, it was to disprove the commonly held notion that everything is made in China. That may be true for consumer electronics but not tools.
Enjoy:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7172379&postcount=28842
Yes, I've seen your great post on this quite a few times! Definitely many manufacturers, the harder part is getting access to them, or being able to actually afford them.
I currently have a Wilton machinist vise from 1948 that I restored, That new 150mm Gedore vise, a 5 inch Ridgid peddinghaus vise and a 4 1/2 inch Ridgid Peddinghaus Vise.
One downside of the Gedore I see is that it has no pipe jaws. It has holes for pipe jaws, but I cannot actually find them for sale.
Reed Prince
Well-known member
Reed Prince
Well-known member
Reed Prince
Well-known member
Perhaps their UK site can give you some advice. http://gedoreuk.com/
Hazet 600N compared to Stahlwille Open Box 14.
I'm off work recovering from a minor op and bored of watching tv so this post may be a bit long sorry.
Hazet 600N
Stahlwille Open Box 14
19mm used for this comparison. Both are 'long' pattern for Euro standards but I think considered normal length in the US. Seen here above Stahlwille Open Box 13 and Facom 440. Facom 440 below 19mm are longer than Open box 13 but from 19mm and above they are shorter.
Both spanners have very similar dimensions with the only real difference being the offset on the ring end which will be shown later.
Hazet is about 3mm longer and a little heavier. The difference in weight is not discernable to me when holding a spanner in each hand.
Comparing the open ends. The Hazet has it's signature polished open end with slightly wider cheeks. This looks nice but scratches very easily. The beam and box end are a matte/satin finish. The Stahlwille has the same smooth satin finish all over.
The Hazet (bottom) has a slightly more rounded profile on the open end compared to the more squared off Stahlwille (top). Hazet also tapers towards the tips. My cheap caliper measures the Stahlwille thickness at 7.9mm and the Hazet at 8.5mm down to 8.0mm at the tips.
The slight taper towards the tips on the Hazet can be seen here.
Aligned the beams as close as I could to show the different angles of the open ends.
Comparing the ring (or box) ends. From this angle there is nothing to distinguish between the two. Outside diameters on both the rings measured at 27.3mm so they are approximately the same thickness assuming the inside dimensions are close to being the same.
This angle shows the main difference between the spanners which is the offset and angle of the ring end. The rings themselves measured at approximately the same depth/thickness at 13.4mm. I was surprised by this as the profile on the Hazet (top) makes it appear thinner. Bit of an optical illusion.
Rings flat on the bench to show the difference in angles. Stahlwille (Front) has a deeper offset but shallower angle.
Possible functional differences. These are fabricated situations which I feel may be similar to real world use. Advantages and disadvantages would be more apparent in confined spaces.
Stahlwille does not sit flush when used flipped due to the offset. (eg reaching behind the back of brake calipers.) Hazet in the second image can be used flipped in some situations.
Hazet struggling to clear obstruction from a close by fastener. Stahlwille in the second image clears the obstacles in this situation.
Comparing the beams. The Hazet has a squarer beam profile compared to the rounder Stahlwille. The rounder profile initially feels more comfortable but as you apply more torque it can dig into your hand. The square profile on the Hazet spreads the pressure out a little more so feels more comfortable to me when force is applied.
Also I find that gripping onto the deeper offset ring end on the Stahlwille feels a little awkward when turning a fastener with the open end. This may just be because I'm not familiar with it.
Size marking. The size markings on the the Hazet are clearer and at both ends. Stahlwille has size marked on just the open end.
Fit and finish. Hazet offers arguably more in the looks department with it's Art Deco(?) styling and contrasting chrome finishes but I think Stahlwille took extra effort on the small details.
Stahlwille (back) has cleaner grind/tooling inside the open end.
Flipped to show the other jaw. Stahlwille (front).
Stahlwille (front) finished the join on the ring to the beam cleaner/smoother.
End. This comparison is just some observations. Any negative comments about either brand are just me nitpicking very minor differences between two equally great spanners.
I'm off work recovering from a minor op and bored of watching tv so this post may be a bit long sorry.
Hazet 600N
Stahlwille Open Box 14
19mm used for this comparison. Both are 'long' pattern for Euro standards but I think considered normal length in the US. Seen here above Stahlwille Open Box 13 and Facom 440. Facom 440 below 19mm are longer than Open box 13 but from 19mm and above they are shorter.
Both spanners have very similar dimensions with the only real difference being the offset on the ring end which will be shown later.
Hazet is about 3mm longer and a little heavier. The difference in weight is not discernable to me when holding a spanner in each hand.
Comparing the open ends. The Hazet has it's signature polished open end with slightly wider cheeks. This looks nice but scratches very easily. The beam and box end are a matte/satin finish. The Stahlwille has the same smooth satin finish all over.
The Hazet (bottom) has a slightly more rounded profile on the open end compared to the more squared off Stahlwille (top). Hazet also tapers towards the tips. My cheap caliper measures the Stahlwille thickness at 7.9mm and the Hazet at 8.5mm down to 8.0mm at the tips.
The slight taper towards the tips on the Hazet can be seen here.
Aligned the beams as close as I could to show the different angles of the open ends.
Comparing the ring (or box) ends. From this angle there is nothing to distinguish between the two. Outside diameters on both the rings measured at 27.3mm so they are approximately the same thickness assuming the inside dimensions are close to being the same.
This angle shows the main difference between the spanners which is the offset and angle of the ring end. The rings themselves measured at approximately the same depth/thickness at 13.4mm. I was surprised by this as the profile on the Hazet (top) makes it appear thinner. Bit of an optical illusion.
Rings flat on the bench to show the difference in angles. Stahlwille (Front) has a deeper offset but shallower angle.
Possible functional differences. These are fabricated situations which I feel may be similar to real world use. Advantages and disadvantages would be more apparent in confined spaces.
Stahlwille does not sit flush when used flipped due to the offset. (eg reaching behind the back of brake calipers.) Hazet in the second image can be used flipped in some situations.
Hazet struggling to clear obstruction from a close by fastener. Stahlwille in the second image clears the obstacles in this situation.
Comparing the beams. The Hazet has a squarer beam profile compared to the rounder Stahlwille. The rounder profile initially feels more comfortable but as you apply more torque it can dig into your hand. The square profile on the Hazet spreads the pressure out a little more so feels more comfortable to me when force is applied.
Also I find that gripping onto the deeper offset ring end on the Stahlwille feels a little awkward when turning a fastener with the open end. This may just be because I'm not familiar with it.
Size marking. The size markings on the the Hazet are clearer and at both ends. Stahlwille has size marked on just the open end.
Fit and finish. Hazet offers arguably more in the looks department with it's Art Deco(?) styling and contrasting chrome finishes but I think Stahlwille took extra effort on the small details.
Stahlwille (back) has cleaner grind/tooling inside the open end.
Flipped to show the other jaw. Stahlwille (front).
Stahlwille (front) finished the join on the ring to the beam cleaner/smoother.
End. This comparison is just some observations. Any negative comments about either brand are just me nitpicking very minor differences between two equally great spanners.
Last edited:
This is the best comparison I've ever seen done between two wrenches and I've been around a while. VERY complete and thorough. Excellent Job! v
Hazet 600N compared to Stahlwille Open Box 14.
I'm off work recovering from a minor op and bored of watching tv so this post may be a bit long sorry.
Hazet 600N
Stahlwille Open Box 14
19mm used for this comparison. Both are 'long' pattern for Euro standards but I think considered normal length in the US. Seen here above Stahlwille Open Box 13 and Facom 440. Facom 440 below 19mm are longer than Open box 13 but from 19mm and above they are shorter.
Both spanners have very similar dimensions with the only real difference being the offset on the ring end which will be shown later.
Hazet is about 3mm longer and a little heavier. The difference in weight is not discernable to me when holding a spanner in each hand.
Comparing the open ends. The Hazet has it's signature polished open end with slightly wider cheeks. This looks nice but scratches very easily. The beam and box end are a matte/satin finish. The Stahlwille has the same smooth satin finish all over.
The Hazet (bottom) has a slightly more rounded profile on the open end compared to the more squared off Stahlwille (top). Hazet also tapers towards the tips. My cheap caliper measures the Stahlwille thickness at 7.9mm and the Hazet at 8.5mm down to 8.0mm at the tips.
The slight taper towards the tips on the Hazet can be seen here.
Aligned the beams as close as I could to show the different angles of the open ends.
Comparing the ring (or box) ends. From this angle there is nothing to distinguish between the two. Outside diameters on both the rings measured at 27.3mm so they are approximately the same thickness assuming the inside dimensions are close to being the same.
This angle shows the main difference between the spanners which is the offset and angle of the ring end. The rings themselves measured at approximately the same depth/thickness at 13.4mm. I was surprised by this as the profile on the Hazet (top) makes it appear thinner. Bit of an optical illusion.
Rings flat on the bench to show the difference in angles. Stahlwille (Front) has a deeper offset but shallower angle.
Possible functional differences. These are fabricated situations which I feel may be similar to real world use. Advantages and disadvantages would be more apparent in confined spaces.
Stahlwille does not sit flush when used flipped due to the offset. (eg reaching behind the back of brake calipers.) Hazet in the second image can be used flipped in some situations.
Hazet struggling to clear obstruction from a close by fastener. Stahlwille in the second image clears the obstacles in this situation.
Comparing the beams. The Hazet has a squarer beam profile compared to the rounder Stahlwille. The rounder profile initially feels more comfortable but as you apply more torque it digs into you hand. The square profile on the Hazet spreads the pressure out a little more so feels more comfortable to me when force is applied.
Also I find that gripping onto the deeper offset ring end on the Stahlwille feels a little awkward when turning a fastener with the open end. This may just be because I'm not familiar with it.
Size marking. The size markings on the the Hazet are clearer and at both ends. Stahlwille has size marked on just the open end.
Fit and finish. Hazet offers arguably more in the looks department with it's Art Deco(?) styling and contrasting chrome finishes but I think Stahlwille took extra effort on the small details.
Stahlwille (back) has cleaner grind/tooling inside the open end.
Flipped to show the other jaw. Stahlwille (front).
Stahlwille (front) finished the join on the ring to the beam cleaner/smoother.
End. This comparison is just some observations. Any negative comments about either brand are just me nitpicking very minor differences between two equally great spanners.
Real nice comparison with high quality pictures
Nice work mr.lemons
Some interesting observations.
I have a few of the Hazet 600N and a couple of Stahlwille Open Box 13 (but not Open Box 14).
As you have mentioned, both companies produce high quality spanners.
For me, the Hazet just "feels better" in terms of ergonomics and in application of force, between the two.
Perhaps you could conduct a similar comparison to an impressive thread which a fellow poster did a couple of years back, and follow on from their work...
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201468
Did you have to quote the entire set of photos?!
If you're struggling to get the Gedore pipe clamps shipped from anywhere then I'm sure one of us friendly European based "threadists" would be able to help you out with shipping, if required.
DITTO, we can help with shipping
Continuing with the Stahlwille and Hazet comparison.
I wanted to compare how each spanner fitted on a fastener assuming a tighter fit would be desirable as it may be less likely to round off a nut or bolt. I tried measuring inside the rings but could not get useful repeatable data and also tried a feeler gauge without much luck.
While looking for fasteners with a 19mm head I happened upon an 18mm bolt which provided some 'interesting' results. I tried multiple 19mm spanners and sockets on the 18mm bolt and found that all of them gripped the bolt to some degree apart from the Hazet which slipped round it. Does this mean that Hazet (or at least this specific spanner) has comparably sloppy fitment or am I missing something?
I made a quick vid to demonstrate.
I wanted to compare how each spanner fitted on a fastener assuming a tighter fit would be desirable as it may be less likely to round off a nut or bolt. I tried measuring inside the rings but could not get useful repeatable data and also tried a feeler gauge without much luck.
While looking for fasteners with a 19mm head I happened upon an 18mm bolt which provided some 'interesting' results. I tried multiple 19mm spanners and sockets on the 18mm bolt and found that all of them gripped the bolt to some degree apart from the Hazet which slipped round it. Does this mean that Hazet (or at least this specific spanner) has comparably sloppy fitment or am I missing something?
I made a quick vid to demonstrate.
Qualitytools
Well-known member
This is the best comparison I've ever seen done between two wrenches and I've been around a while. VERY complete and thorough. Excellent Job! v
+1 I wholeheartedly agree, excellent write up and very clear photos. Thanks for sharing
Mr.Lemons,
Thanks for the write-up, enjoyed that. I got a set of Hazet 600N's last year and must admit to being very happy with them.
Regarding your question about them slipping over a 1mm undersize hex whereas the S-W does not, could this be due to different geometries of the two companies' flank-drive systems? Both quite possibly grip equally well on the correct size hex?
Cheers
Steve
Thanks for the write-up, enjoyed that. I got a set of Hazet 600N's last year and must admit to being very happy with them.
Regarding your question about them slipping over a 1mm undersize hex whereas the S-W does not, could this be due to different geometries of the two companies' flank-drive systems? Both quite possibly grip equally well on the correct size hex?
Cheers
Steve
What's happened to Monte ? This thread has an incredible 13 million views but he last checked in on 09-25-2018
Resting perhaps...
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/24287314tq.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 24287314tq.jpg"/></a>
Resting perhaps...
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/24287314tq.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 24287314tq.jpg"/></a>
Haha, nice one[emoji106]
Or he is working 24x7 to pay for the tools[emoji16].
Hopefully we here feom Monte soon[emoji482]
Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
A test with some marker paint on the correct size bolt will reveal the flank drive pattern; Mr.Lemons?
Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
Could be. I'm afraid I'm completely lost when it comes to imperial sizes. I think that as long as the same size object is used as the measuring stick then it doesn't effect the results.
Yes. Could just be down to a variation in design as you say. Wish I had the equipment to measure the torque it takes each one to fail on the correct size bolt.
Sounds like a good idea. Was really just a passing observation though. I've seen a lot of posts here championing the tight tolerances/clearance of some brands so thought it was mildly interesting.
knightmasks
Well-known member
BAHCO S138 Made in TAIWAN
Izar Bits box: Made in SPAIN
Izar Bits box: Made in SPAIN
Look good. Whereabouts did you purchase from, if you don't mind saying?
Cynical huckster
Well-known member
Have you guys ever seen Kärcher garden tools? Here they are.
Can anyone tell me what this "soft faced hammer wedge" is for:
https://www.elora.de/site/en/shop/details.php?breadcrumbs=yes&lang=en&id1=4565&gruppe=2104-1
It doesn't look it has a striking face, and other brands don't seem to offer anything like it.
https://www.elora.de/site/en/shop/details.php?breadcrumbs=yes&lang=en&id1=4565&gruppe=2104-1
It doesn't look it has a striking face, and other brands don't seem to offer anything like it.
Reed Prince
Well-known member
Looks like it is an internal wedge for a soft faced hammer.
superautobacs
Well-known member
There are several ways to wedge a hammer handle. The round wedge is one type:
From Google images search:
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&biw=1227&bih=603&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=mK_pW-fvFMKR0wK03rPwDg&q=european+hammer+handle+wedge&oq=european+hammer+handle+wedge&gs_l=img.3...29423.31205.0.31456.9.9.0.0.0.0.48.384.9.9.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0....0.VSO14tyymxU#imgrc=ROCRxylU_lUDJM:
From Google images search:
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&biw=1227&bih=603&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=mK_pW-fvFMKR0wK03rPwDg&q=european+hammer+handle+wedge&oq=european+hammer+handle+wedge&gs_l=img.3...29423.31205.0.31456.9.9.0.0.0.0.48.384.9.9.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0....0.VSO14tyymxU#imgrc=ROCRxylU_lUDJM:
Reed Prince
Well-known member
My guess was that it held the faces on, not the handle.
superautobacs
Well-known member
Depends on how the profile is shaped where it contacts the flats of the fastener.Mr. Lemons,
Very nice write up and photos you took.
superautobacs
Well-known member
I doubt it. When you look at the diameter sizes for the entire series from 22mm all the way up to 60mm faces, it's either a 10mm or 13mm wedge. If it were for securing the faces, I'd imagine the sizes to get proportionately larger?
Reed Prince
Well-known member
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
edit: downloaded whole catalog, and part does look like handle wedges of other hammers.
edit: downloaded whole catalog, and part does look like handle wedges of other hammers.
Last edited:
Cybermike
Well-known member
There are several ways to wedge a hammer handle. The round wedge is one type:
From Google images search:
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&biw=1227&bih=603&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=mK_pW-fvFMKR0wK03rPwDg&q=european+hammer+handle+wedge&oq=european+hammer+handle+wedge&gs_l=img.3...29423.31205.0.31456.9.9.0.0.0.0.48.384.9.9.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0....0.VSO14tyymxU#imgrc=ROCRxylU_lUDJM:
Indeed
Karcher is pretty much the default brand for home power washers used to clean drives/patios here in the UK. Didn't know they made other tools.
Cynical huckster
Well-known member
I'm not sure if they made garden tools by themselves. Kärcher garden tools just appeared on the Ukrainian market, I don't even know their price range.
P.S. More Kärcher products.
Nailed it [ahem]
Oh well. I had a use for a smaller soft-faced hammer and the Elora one was under $10 on Amazon. I bought this part with it because of Amazon's suggestion on the hammer page, thinking it was a screw on hard face. I can't imagine breaking a 27mm soft faced hammer's handle and needing this thing, but I've certainly wasted more than 3 bucks on online purchases before...