Tools from the old world

[Qualitytools]

^Nice write up, thanks for sharing!

 

[mr.lemons]

^^^ Agreed. Good info thanks.

 

[matt351]

Anyone have any input on this wrench? It was heavily rusted when I found it in a building about to be demolished. I cleaned it up, but the maker's mark is very faint.

 

[Bogdan M.]

Kukko 129-1-B-1.
It's a BMW dedicated ball-joint separator.

 

[Ganymedes]

^^ Looked up 'Tucker Fasteners' of Birmingham England.

Factory closed. Company now owned by Stanley

Another old brand:killed by Stanley-B&D.........I like to own my 2 "old" POP -rivet nailers , a TT55A, blue handled, and a TT66A, green handled,same capacity both,made by the old "Geo.Tucker Eyelet Co."
Last week I had the intention to buy another, bigger, blind-rivet nailer, here in France: FISCHER-DAREX, a well-known french brand!: only 19,99€, but after reading the package, I returned it to its hook........made in PRC. I did no longer want it........

 

[Ganymedes]

Hi. here what i bought today, small tools haul. Proto snips and ratcheting wrench, measuring tape, and blind riveting pliers. Did anyone knows Tucker riveting pliers, seems look old tool for me

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Keep this POP-nailer for the rest of your life! It´s great!

 

[anetode]

Another pair of pliers from KC BF was the NWS PowerSlot End Cutter, that came with misaligned jaws which caused chips at their respective edges.

Obviously these are getting returned.

Between those and another NWS cutter in which one of the handles was not on all the way, I'm really less than impressed with the QC of NWS pliers.

I'll end on a good note, the Wiha 180mm box joint adjustable pliers are probably my favorite of the bunch. Perfect ergo and convenient size, easy one handed adjustment and good grip. Hopefully their teeth hold up as well as those of their Knipex counterpart.

 

[superautobacs]

Note also that when the handles are maximally spread apart from each other, the cam in the Gedore rotates a little further along it's cutout than the Knipex, and just prior to hitting the maximum spread point the upper cam jumps in to push the jaws of the plier back towards together by a really tiny but noticeable amount. So as you spread the handles the Gedore's jaws get wider and wider, but then contract by a millimeter once at their furthest point away from each other; almost a kind of "backlash".

This would be easier to demonstrate in a video, but here's a simple picture of the two pliers with their handles spread open as far as they go. Note the position of the two cam protrusions with respect to their cutouts.

Care to elaborate on the significance of this from a functionality standpoint? I'm not understand the importance during use, when the handles get squeezed together.

Another pair of pliers from KC BF was the NWS PowerSlot End Cutter, that came with misaligned jaws which caused chips at their respective edges.

I don't think cutting edges not meeting exactly to a point are necessarily a flaw when it comes to "power" type nippers/cutters with V-shaped cutting edges. They certainly aren't flush-cutting pliers.
I have those NWS pliers and noticed that the surface coating wore off pretty quickly. If it's the same thing that you're experiencing I wouldn't worry about it as it still easily cuts through SS hose clamps/bands (which is what I use them for). I have some really old Klein high leverage diagnoal cutters (like 230mm long ones) that still cut really well and those cutting edges don't meet to a point either.

Kukko 129-1-B-1.
It's a BMW dedicated ball-joint separator.

Those are nice and take a lot of abuse!

 

[anetode]

Care to elaborate on the significance of this from a functionality standpoint? I'm not understand the importance during use, when the handles get squeezed together.

I suppose this backlash won't really be all that significant during use, the one annoying bit about their functionality would be having to ensure perfect alignment each time you would adjust these pliers. As for the cam alignment, that's more of an observation on the design in comparison to the Knipex. I don't know whether this might be a weak point down the road.

Also I forgot to mention that both pliers were really smooth in adjustment along their toothed track. On the whole both appear to be very good tools and maybe a future revision of the Gedore could make some improvements to their design which would put them ahead of the OG Knipex. For another example, the Wiha pliers wrench is arguably an improvement on the Knipex design because it is faster to use (kind of like the Knipex Alligator in comparison to the Cobra, which I tend to prefer for some usage cases). Market competition is a wonderful thing

I don't think cutting edges not meeting exactly to a point are necessarily a flaw when it comes to "power" type nippers/cutters with V-shaped cutting edges. They certainly aren't flush-cutting pliers.
I have those NWS pliers and noticed that the surface coating wore off pretty quickly. If it's the same thing that you're experiencing I wouldn't worry about it as it still easily cuts through SS hose clamps/bands (which is what I use them for). I have some really old Klein high leverage diagnoal cutters (like 230mm long ones) that still cut really well and those cutting edges don't meet to a point either.

Well to begin with, these nippers have a manufacturing defect and should not have passed QC inspection. At best these should've been b-stock and these chips and the cutter misalignment are simply not what I paid for when I purchased a brand new pair. The chips will also get worse with use, when I suspect the edge of one side will eventually carve in to the bevel of the other side. And while they're not meant to be flush cutters, I expect that a proper pair would still cut cleaner than the one I received.

 

[superautobacs]

I suppose this backlash won't really be all that significant during use, the one annoying bit about their functionality would be having to ensure perfect alignment each time you would adjust these pliers. As for the cam alignment, that's more of an observation on the design in comparison to the Knipex. I don't know whether this might be a weak point down the road.

Also I forgot to mention that both pliers were really smooth in adjustment along their toothed track. On the whole both appear to be very good tools and maybe a future revision of the Gedore could make some improvements to their design which would put them ahead of the OG Knipex. For another example, the Wiha pliers wrench is arguably an improvement on the Knipex design because it is faster to use (kind of like the Knipex Alligator in comparison to the Cobra, which I tend to prefer for some usage cases). Market competition is a wonderful thing




Well to begin with, these nippers have a manufacturing defect and should not have passed QC inspection. At best these should've been b-stock and these chips and the cutter misalignment are simply not what I paid for when I purchased a brand new pair. The chips will also get worse with use, when I suspect the edge of one side will eventually carve in to the bevel of the other side. And while they're not meant to be flush cutters, I expect that a proper pair would still cut cleaner than the one I received.

Thanks for the response, Anetode.

Just curious...When you say "cut cleaner", are you comparing it against another end cutter that you have? If so, care to show us the difference in the finish with the material being cut?

 

[anetode]

Just curious...When you say "cut cleaner", are you comparing it against another end cutter that you have? If so, care to show us the difference in the finish with the material being cut?

So the best way to illustrate what I mean is to do the good old paper test. Here are the competitors:

Note that the Knipex end cutter on the left is a heavy duty beast with comparatively very beefy and not particularly sharp jaws. Yet, as you can see below, it has no problems with cutting through the paper. Neither does the VBW end cutter, nor the ringer of the group, the Knipex box-joint dykes I threw in for the heck of it. The NWS, on the other hand, only dented the paper, ineffectively spreading out its force over an uneven & broken edge.

Now of course this test isn't reflective of the normal usage for these cutters, but it hints at the flaws the NWS would have with cutting other materials. Namely, it won't cut them cleanly through along a single consistent edge, you'll get an uneven crushing action. It would probably be able to split a nail without much of a problem, but I doubt that you'd get a clean and complete cut with, say, stranded wire.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If anyone knows anything about tools made by Athol, Birmingham, England, in the 1940's-1950's, please give me the skinny. I've come up completely empty in searches. THANKS.

 

[losvre]

So the best way to illustrate what I mean is to do the good old paper test. Here are the competitors:

Note that the Knipex end cutter on the left is a heavy duty beast with comparatively very beefy and not particularly sharp jaws. Yet, as you can see below, it has no problems with cutting through the paper. Neither does the VBW end cutter, nor the ringer of the group, the Knipex box-joint dykes I threw in for the heck of it. The NWS, on the other hand, only dented the paper, ineffectively spreading out its force over an uneven & broken edge.

Now of course this test isn't reflective of the normal usage for these cutters, but it hints at the flaws the NWS would have with cutting other materials. Namely, it won't cut them cleanly through along a single consistent edge, you'll get an uneven crushing action. It would probably be able to split a nail without much of a problem, but I doubt that you'd get a clean and complete cut with, say, stranded wire.

I agree with the testament above, I have seen many NWS on the self of shops in Germany/ Belgium with lots of defects and I was wondering how the heck they are selling them!

 

[Bogdan M.]

Those are nice and take a lot of abuse!

Do you know if there are other tools dedicated to BMW and made by Kukko?

 

[JBH]

Although the Gedore has slightly less side to side play, it's default arrangement (no pressure applied) has the jaws more than a millimeter off (as seen below):

Mine are similarly misaligned. It has about the same side-to-side play as (original) Knipex. Both are much more wobbly than VBW.

As for who has the widest opening, here they are at the maximum setting with handles together. Knipex has maybe a fraction of a millimeter on the Gedore, but they're basically identical:

I didn't snap a picture, but Gedore has about a 5mm advantage on ur-Knipex and VBW.

What really compromises the functionality and appeal of Gedore's implementation is an odd arrangement at the cam and spring loaded adjustment mechanism. Below you can see that while the Knipex has basically a mirror of the front button attached to the spring lever on its backside, the Gedore has these two small vertical extensions of the button which are visible from the backside. These require the Gedore to have the handles pressed together to allow for the button to align with the vertical slots for the bumps, else the button may not be depressed.

Not exactly. If the handles are pressed together all the way, the button cannot be depressed. Basically it has to be at a certain in-between range. I think the idea is that you can slide it up and down, and then when you open or close the handles all the way the button locks down. I'm not sure that's a huge improvement, but it's the functional difference.

TBH the thing I'm most annoyed about is the grey button. My older Gedore waterpump pliers have a blue button.

 

[anetode]

Not exactly. If the handles are pressed together all the way, the button cannot be depressed. Basically it has to be at a certain in-between range. I think the idea is that you can slide it up and down, and then when you open or close the handles all the way the button locks down. I'm not sure that's a huge improvement, but it's the functional difference.

That makes sense, thanks for the explanation! Unfortunately this functional difference still clashes with how I originally learned to use this type of design with the Knipex, so it'll take a bit to get used to.

 

[JBH]

That makes sense, thanks for the explanation! Unfortunately this functional difference still clashes with how I originally learned to use this type of design with the Knipex, so it'll take a bit to get used to.

Agreed.

The other notable differences I discovered last night are Gedore has finer adjustments and a less aggressive cam. Here are all three opened to the same size, handles closed:



Handles fully open the jaws open about the same amount. But Gedore’s handles open much wider for the same jaw movement:



VBW has a slightly more aggressive cam than Knipex (less handle movement to open the jaws). Both are more aggressive than Gedore.

 

[eas311]

Can anyone recommend a moderately priced 3/8" torque wrench? Preferably not made in China. I've been looking at the Tohnichi QL-MH and newer Wera models. Something with a range of ~ 10-50Nm is about right. Both the Tohnichi and Wera seem very nice, but are also a little pricey. I will not use frequently, but want something that will hold up over many years.

Also, based off a Youtube review, it appears the Wera torque wrenches are made in Taiwan (versus the UK for their older models). Does anyone know who makes these for Wera?

Thanks,
Eric

 

[Qualitytools]

Can anyone recommend a moderately priced 3/8" torque wrench? Preferably not made in China. I've been looking at the Tohnichi QL-MH and newer Wera models. Something with a range of ~ 10-50Nm is about right. Both the Tohnichi and Wera seem very nice, but are also a little pricey. I will not use frequently, but want something that will hold up over many years.

Also, based off a Youtube review, it appears the Wera torque wrenches are made in Taiwan (versus the UK for their older models). Does anyone know who makes these for Wera?

Thanks,
Eric

I can suggest you look at NORBAR made in the UK, they made the older Wera among others just a different color handle.

 

[Reed Prince]

After my father passed around 8 years ago, this little folding knife was one of the things I chose from the items he kept in a bedside table drawer. I walked to the neighborhood hardware store and asked if they had the blade that was in it, and the owner went in the back and after a while brought out this box, saying it was the last one they had. I doubt it cost more than $20 for the hundred blades. Out of curiosity I just looked online for them, and they are much more expensive now and I can't find any that say they are made in England.

 

[mrspeed]

Really like the Wiha mallets. I think they're a bit nicer than the similar Halder Simplex mallets. Also found a good deal on the 80mm diameter, 840mm long sledgehammer (model 832-99-080L). I grabbed the smaller handle for it as well, so I can switch it to a small handled version for more versatility. Not sure what I'll use it for, but I'm sure I'll be glad I have it when the need arises.



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[mr.lemons]

After my father passed around 8 years ago, this little folding knife was one of the things I chose from the items he kept in a bedside table drawer. I walked to the neighborhood hardware store and asked if they had the blade that was in it, and the owner went in the back and after a while brought out this box, saying it was the last one they had. I doubt it cost more than $20 for the hundred blades. Out of curiosity I just looked online for them, and they are much more expensive now and I can't find any that say they are made in England.

Sorry about your Dad. I have a few of my late Father's trinkets and tools. Holding and using them is a wonderful tactile way to feel close to him again.

 

[mr.lemons]

Talco 56cm box. Local chap a few mins away was selling it cheap on Shpock so picked it up. Doesn't look like it's been used much. Minor dents and the bottom is scratched but the rest is clean. Not sure I really have a use for it though.

 

[mr.lemons]

I've also picked up a pair of the new shape pliers wrench. Sold my old pair to fund them. Only thing to add is that with mildly greasy hands I actually find the old smooth finish handles grippier than these textured ones.

 

[mr.lemons]

Gedore 8380-250 pincers. Not marked with coo. KC Tool has them listed as made in Austria. I don't know if the info is reliable.

 

[Flash21]

On the new design of the Knipex pliers wrench:

Do the grooves on the handles above the grips serve a purpose? Other than to perhaps retain the grips? they look cool for sure but that seems like a lot of extra manufacturing and Knipex seems to be more function than form.

 

[mr.lemons]

On the new design of the Knipex pliers wrench:

Do the grooves on the handles above the grips serve a purpose? Other than to perhaps retain the grips? they look cool for sure but that seems like a lot of extra manufacturing and Knipex seems to be more function than form.

It's where you hold them while adjusting the jaws. More so the bottom one in your left finger/thumb tips while pushing the button with your right. The grooved parts are also curved (concave) to aid grip.

Edit. Too dark to take proper pics but should give some idea.

They are slippy with wet or greasy hands so you naturally hold the grooved parts so they don't slip out of your hands. Only just got them so speculating a bit here.

 

[Flash21]

yeah, that does make sense. thanks mr.lemons!

 

[Dave455]

After my father passed around 8 years ago, this little folding knife was one of the things I chose from the items he kept in a bedside table drawer. I walked to the neighborhood hardware store and asked if they had the blade that was in it, and the owner went in the back and after a while brought out this box, saying it was the last one they had. I doubt it cost more than $20 for the hundred blades. Out of curiosity I just looked online for them, and they are much more expensive now and I can't find any that say they are made in England.]

I believe Stanley used to make their full size blades at their Sheffield factory. The ‘Slimknife’ blades, right since introduction, were outsourced to Swann Morten, the scalpel manufacturers, also in Sheffield. I have some friends there who told me that. In the end, Stanley wanted the blades cheaper and cheaper so they took the contract elsewhere. The Stanley marked blades are fairly poor now, and don’t hold an edge.

The good news is, you can get decent full size blades from other firms which are still Sheffield made and still decent.

Swann Morton also offer their own craft knife blades of comparable size to the old Stanley Slimknife. The fitting is different so you will need a new handle, but worth it!

 

[superautobacs]

So the best way to illustrate what I mean is to do the good old paper test. Here are the competitors:

Note that the Knipex end cutter on the left is a heavy duty beast with comparatively very beefy and not particularly sharp jaws. Yet, as you can see below, it has no problems with cutting through the paper. Neither does the VBW end cutter, nor the ringer of the group, the Knipex box-joint dykes I threw in for the heck of it. The NWS, on the other hand, only dented the paper, ineffectively spreading out its force over an uneven & broken edge.

Now of course this test isn't reflective of the normal usage for these cutters, but it hints at the flaws the NWS would have with cutting other materials. Namely, it won't cut them cleanly through along a single consistent edge, you'll get an uneven crushing action. It would probably be able to split a nail without much of a problem, but I doubt that you'd get a clean and complete cut with, say, stranded wire.

Anetode,

Thanks for taking the time to illustrate that. I did a paper cutting test just for the heck of it on my pair of NWS and it cut the paper cleanly.
Well, hearing how others are experiencing QC issues, it makes me weary of any future online purchases. Perhaps NWS is more concerned with churning up as many orders as they can for allll the private labeling they do. Short term gains are good, but may not be so in the long run.

Do you know if there are other tools dedicated to BMW and made by Kukko?

I'm sure there are, but I don't have any reference.

 

[Jack84]

Torque wrench made by BLM Italy.





They merged with Atlas Copco if I'm not mistaken.

 

[mrspeed]

I really like the feel and quality of the Osca hammers. Recently found some good deals on Elora rebranded engineer's hammers and bought every size. These have the aluminum core 2-component handles. They are very comfortable to hold and swing.

I know a common sentiment here is that if a tool has no COO stamped on it or the packaging that it's probably made in China. But has anyone else noticed that Elora omits the COO from the tool and packaging of all tools that are not made in Germany?

I have some Elora locking pliers that seem to be rebranded from Grip On, except missing the "Made in Spain" stamp. Meanwhile the Bolmann-Selzer locking pliers that Elora rebrands retain the "Made in Germany" stamp.

Likewise, these Elora rebranded Osca hammers are made in Italy, but lack any such indication.

Also showing some Heyco and Gedore hammers side by side for comparison. They all look and feel very similar in terms of function and quality. If I were blind folded, I'm not sure I could tell the wood handled hammers apart.

The only one I'd say seems a bit cheaper quality in terms of finish (mostly how the paint is applied to both the handle and head) is the Picard.

Follow up question, does anyone know who makes the Heyco hammers? The handles seem very similar to both the Osca and Gedore (which I think I read on here are made by Habero or vice versa).



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[shirk]

Facom S.151b. First Facom item for me.

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[ChrisLS8]

I noticed that Home Depot now has Gedore in it's tool listings.

 

[M6erfan]

Swann Morton also offer their own craft knife blades of comparable size to the old Stanley Slimknife. The fitting is different so you will need a new handle, but worth it!

Any more info on this Dave? Just so happens that I'm looking for a 'craft knife" and was considering a Swann Morton scalpel. Which SM craft knife blades are like the old Stanley's?

 

[node105]

Kukko 129-1-B-1.
It's a BMW dedicated ball-joint separator.

Nice! I like the adjustment being between the two arms.

I have the puller set, Kukko makes excellent tools

 

[Bogdan M.]

Could you please post a picture of the set?

 

[mrspeed]

At work, I have the Gedore and Knipex version of the large cable cutters. They're identical to each other. I assume same COO on them. They're described as being Germany...

The Gedore ones even had a picture with blue handles, but when I bought them and they arrived, it was actually the red knipex handles.

I also bought the larger Gedore shears from Amazon and got them with red handles and no branding anywhere in them. When I posted here a few weeks ago, we figured out they seem to be made by Rennsteig.

Very close to buying a facom 440 or Stahlwille 13/9 metric spanner set but was checking out other brands on Amazon and came across 'Heyco' which I hadn't heard of before. Seems like they mostly provide tool kits for German cars.

Not sure if they are just using old images but their 'new tools' sold by Heyco are marked 'West Germany.' Somebody needs to tell them about the wall.

I bought both of these from Amazon.de, and sure enough, about half the wrenches and screwdrivers say W Germany on them. I guess they've been in the warehouse a few years.



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[mr.lemons]

^ They are good looking tools. Polished ends like Hazet.

 

[mr.lemons]

Portasol SuperPro 125 butane soldering iron.

Replacing this one which works ok but has a habit of bursting into flames when the tip is angled down.

One orange switch turns on the gas and the other ignites it.

Adjust the gas by turning the base. Window shows gas inside.

Filled from the base which is marked 'Made in Ireland.'

Comes with one tip which is quite wide. Think it is a SPT-06 2.4mm Double Flat Tip.

Unscrew the tip to use as a torch.

A selection of tips are available.

Stand is a bit naff but functional.

There is a part of the lid that sticks out proud and lines up with the gas switch so it cannot be left on accidentally. Thought that was a nice touch.

The card in the back of the packaging opens up with instructions.

I think this model is rebranded by Snap on.

Product of Ireland.

Can also be bought as a kit in a box.