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Tools from the old world

mr.lemons

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Oct 24, 2017
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Location
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BTW, Mr Lemons, thanks for all the awesome photos/reviews!

Same to you. :bowdown: :thumbup:

Koken 3137 1/4" hex bit holder (3/8" square) and some more PB bits.

Fit and finish on the bit holder is impeccable. Matt/satin chrome.

IMG-6555.jpg


Bit retention from the ball is firm. With clean/dry hands I can pull bits out but I would need pliers when hands are greasy.

IMG-6562.jpg


Tight tolerance around the bit combined with the sprung ball allows for little to no play in the bit. Locks on a Facom ratchet and actually fits better (less play) than Facom sockets.

IMG-6568.jpg


Stamped 'Made in Japan.'

IMG-6560.jpg
 
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driven04

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Feb 23, 2019
Messages
33
Location
Germany
So I've had a chance to really check out my hardware stores locally, and it's left me with two big questions. As an aside, COO and brand by itself isn't all that important to me, but I'm looking to acquire quality tools.

The first is about the Store brands like Toom (and connex?), who, as is already mentioned in this thread, clearly are in some cases just rebranded NWS/Knipex/etc Is there any real drop off in quality or is it just a different warranty/reputation?? Does anyone do any testing on this type of stuff, or is there any website that tracks the various part numbers and shows which version is the lowest cost?


Second, how do brands like hawe, Projahn, and connex stack up in the world of tools. Are there "specialty" things each does better than others, or are they just mid tier branding of tools manufactured by others?

It seems like wolfcraft is another lower end brand that is a bit hit and miss, with some decently quality stuff, and some not so quality stuff.

I had a bad experience with a proxxon tool that was more toy than tool (broke first use), and while I understand that's probably not an indicator of the brand in general, I refuse to do business with a company that puts their name on something as poorly engineered as this was. (it was using an split plastic mold to hold torque forces... just so dumb)
 
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driven04

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Feb 23, 2019
Messages
33
Location
Germany
Seems very similar to the Wera, but then also some connex branded drivers I saw. Maybe elora or Wera is the OEM for all three?
s0UH4Bj.jpg
This shows the Connex version at my local hardware store.
 
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mr.lemons

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Oct 24, 2017
Messages
2,191
Location
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Seems very similar to the Wera, but then also some connex branded drivers I saw. Maybe elora or Wera is the OEM for all three?
s0UH4Bj.jpg
This shows the Connex version at my local hardware store.

Pics hosted on imgur do not work on this forum. Think you can remove the 's' from 'https' or use another host.

I have also wondered if rebrands are the same quality and go through the same qc process as the originals. :dunno:

Some of the screwdrivers in the pic look to be 'Oplast' who I think also makes for Hazet and Gedore.
http://www.oplast.si/index.php

oplast.jpg


I have previously asked about the wooden handles and got an answer here.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7322137&postcount=29344

FM0003.jpg
 

driven04

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Feb 23, 2019
Messages
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Location
Germany
Makes sense. Thanks for the info. I guess I'm a little surprised there isn't a german language vlogger/tool tester that compares these things... or, at least not one I"ve found.
 

JBH

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Jan 17, 2018
Messages
811
I have also wondered if rebrands are the same quality and go through the same qc process as the originals. :dunno:

I would imagine that some are better and some are worse. For example, I have Phoenix Contact rebrands of NWS and Orbis pliers that are finished far nicer than anything I've seen direct-branded from either firm. The Phoenix Contact NWS needlenoses are proof that NWS can in fact do chrome!
 

Steve_P

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Sep 15, 2010
Messages
5,181
I would imagine that some are better and some are worse. For example, I have Phoenix Contact rebrands of NWS and Orbis pliers that are finished far nicer than anything I've seen direct-branded from either firm. The Phoenix Contact NWS needlenoses are proof that NWS can in fact do chrome!

Who said NWS cant do chrome? All of my full size NWS pliers are a nice satin chrome. All of my classic line small NWS are mirror polished steel. These are not plated and they also make other full size pliers that aren't plated but mirror polished.

Can you post a pic?
 

JBH

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811
Who said NWS cant do chrome?

I did.

Can you post a pic?

When I get a chance I'll post a picture of my couple-month old ErgoCombi's peeling chrome on the teeth. Pity, because I actually like using ErgoMulti better than Orbis EvoPlus so far, because the spring loading is surprisingly helpful. (Regardless, I strongly prefer Orbis EvoTel over NWS ErgoMulti.)
 

TjoFrasse

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Jan 28, 2010
Messages
458
Location
Sweden
Hey, it's been a while!

I'll be darned! Thanks for posting that it exists in Bahco colour scheme!
The Belzer branded one was grey (instead of the Bahco orange) and probably ended production in early 2000's. They started production early 90's, IIRC.
The Belzer one's started as 60-tooth mechanisms, just like their round head ratchets. The current Bahco's seem to be 72-tooth?

How do they work in real use?

Yeah, still reading everything here but Instagram takes most of my posting attention. Also, you're doing a good job with the Youtube videos!

I have an older grey one also (1/2") that I took apart and looked at the mechanism. https://www.instagram.com/p/BqYLca9AbQ_/
I must say it was surprisingly simple.

I have nothing bad to say about it, it's a good ratchet. But I can't say I get so much out of the easy reach selector. Part because I often find that you don't switch so often, and when you do you forget you have that ratchet and try to do a normal selection first... If you used only these ratchets I think you would learn. Two handed is just not that bad, and I guess that's why this design haven't caught on.
 

Steve_P

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Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
5,181
I did.



When I get a chance I'll post a picture of my couple-month old ErgoCombi's peeling chrome on the teeth. Pity, because I actually like using ErgoMulti better than Orbis EvoPlus so far, because the spring loading is surprisingly helpful. (Regardless, I strongly prefer Orbis EvoTel over NWS ErgoMulti.)

If you've been using them, this is normal. Plating is not indestructible, which is why almost no one bothers to chrome plate pliers. All my chrome plated Knipex and NWS have chipping on the cutting edges and serrated teeth from use. The rest of the surfaces are like new. This is acceptable to me. If it wasnt I'd buy blackened and save $.

Post a pic of the Orbis that hasn't had an issue with the plating if you've used it. I don't doubt that plating has chipped of the NWS from use as this is normal.
 

mr.lemons

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Oct 24, 2017
Messages
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Location
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Gedore 19 DMU-20 3014347 1/2" Socket set.

IMG-6589-2.jpg


There are some issues with this set. It was bought at a reduced price from Ebay and did not come sealed so may be a customer return and therefore may not be a fair representation of Gedore in general. However I assume this set did make it through Gedore quality control at some point.

IMG-6597.jpg


The case is plastic and feels a little cheap and brittle. The hinges and latches are plastic with metal inserts. The foam tray is removable. The foam is cracking around the head of the ratchet. It's possible that the lubricant used in the ratchet is reacting with the foam.

IMG-6606.jpg


IMG-6620.jpg


IMG-6613.jpg


The 1993U-20 (60 tooth) quick release ratchet has a two component handle which consists of hard blue plastic and quite soft black rubber. The matt chrome finish has a rough tactile texture. There are lumpy edges and dark patches in the chrome finish. No Gedore logo on the handle?

IMG-6651.jpg


IMG-6652.jpg


IMG-6744.jpg


IMG-6737-2.jpg


The ratchet came well lubricated and opens easily via two torx screws. The gear pulls straight out but the pawl looks to be pressed into the direction lever. This means you don't have to worry about losing the ball and spring but limits access. The lever may just pry off but I didn't want to risk breaking it before I got to use it.

IMG-6527.jpg


The back drag is noticeably smoother and less audibly 'clicky' in one direction than the other. Same after cleaning and relubrication. I would guess that there is an inconsistency with the way the pawl sits when on one side.

IMG-6578.jpg


No.19 series sockets. 10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 22, 24, 27, 30, 32mm. The socket finish is matt chrome on the square end half and somewhere between satin and polished on the hex end half. The knurling sticks out proud from the socket and should provide extra grip when turning using fingers.

IMG-6709.jpg


IMG-6715.jpg


The chrome finish has some lumps and inconsistencies.

IMG-6693-2.jpg


IMG-6701.jpg


IMG-6700.jpg


Stahlwille/Gedore/Bahco knurling comparison. The Stahlwille is 1/4" drive so may not be a fair comparison.

IMG-6735.jpg


The 18mm and 19mm sockets don't lock on to the ratchet. When fitted to the ratchet the button stays mostly depressed showing that the ball is not fully entering the recesses. About half of the sockets don't lock onto my Facom QR ratchet. The recesses on the 18 and 19mm look to be cut lower down into the sockets compared to the others which may be the issue or it is possible that the inner coating (paint?) has been applied to thicky and is partly filling the recesses.

IMG-6723.jpg


IMG-6671.jpg


1990 KR-10 250mm universal (wobble) extension. Works as a normal extension when the socket is pushed on firmly. Also has knurling on the square end.

IMG-6623.jpg


IMG-6624.jpg


'Made in Germany' printed on the cardboard box and stamped on each individual tool.

IMG-6592.jpg


Sorry about mainly commenting on the negatives. It's harder to quantify the positive aspects which can be somewhat subjective. I really like the ratchet's feel in the hand and the low resistance of the back drag. I will be purchasing a couple of the missing socket sizes and swapping out the extension for a non wobble one. The non locking sockets was an easy fix with a rotary tool. Big thanks to KevinFox for posting this set in the deals section. :thumbup:
 
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JBH

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Jan 17, 2018
Messages
811
If you've been using them, this is normal. Plating is not indestructible, which is why almost no one bothers to chrome plate pliers.

Sorry, but NWS generally does a bad job on their chrome plating, and pre-plating surface prep. Here are the pliers in question:

View media item 91199
They work very well, but they are not finely crafted.

Compare to a set of NWS-made needle nose for a rebrander with high standards, Phoenix Contact.

View media item 91201
As for other pliers, good chrome-plated pliers do not chip. Some examples of well-used chrome needle noses:

Gedore 160mm
View media item 91200
Stahlwille 200mm
View media item 91202
Wiha (Swiss) 200mm
View media item 91203
They may be a little dirty, but they're not chipped.

Post a pic of the Orbis that hasn't had an issue with the plating if you've used it. I don't doubt that plating has chipped of the NWS from use as this is normal.

Orbis, to my knowledge, does not sell chromed pliers under their own brand. My comparison for Orbis had nothing to do with chrome. Rather, I think I like NWS ErgoCombi in use better than EvoPlus (which I've had for a while), because the spring opening works well in this format. But I prefer Orbis EvoTel to NWS ErgoMulti despite ErgoMulti's spring assist. EvoTel is similarly crude of build, but nonetheless is the default needlenose I'll grab.
 

JBH

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Jan 17, 2018
Messages
811
A few recent arrivals in the next couple posts. First, Würth. Perhaps some look down on Würth because they source their tools globally rather than being provincial about it, but I've found their offerings to be high quality and top-notch designs. After picking up the Würth LED convertible ratcheting screwdriver I noticed they had a kit based on it (not through their US distributor, alas) with some neat features. Truth be told it was the telescopic magnetic pickup attachment that really sold me on it.
View media item 91205View media item 91207
Sockets look like Facom. At least, I'm not aware of anyone else doing this shape.:
View media item 91206
(As an aside, standard USAG sockets are not Facom sockets with different stamping. The loose socket 2 pics above is a 4.5mm USAG to fill out the set. Had I known they were different looking I would've paid the extra 2 bucks for Facom.)

I also picked up that "universal" spline drive set above to amortize shipping costs. I'll keep it in the car I think. Two interesting details.

First, the spinner handle is the best I've held by far, between the shape and the square on top.
View media item 91208
However, it's more different from Felo Ergonic than I expected. Material feels the same, and the shape seems just as comfortable for now.
View media item 91209
Nice "surprise and delight" feature: Würth logo embossed on the bottom.
View media item 91210
Also, the ratchet is similar to Facom/USAG/Proto "palm control" but isn't quite the same. The spinner ring sticks out from the sides of the head, and the ring on top is smaller. A Taiwanese clone?
View media item 91211It actually feels smoother than the FUP on the left, but I'm not sure it has less backdrag. I've only spun it my hand and haven't actually used it yet.
 

JBH

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811
Next, orders from Mister Worker and amazon.de. I decided to try out MW because they had great sales going (some seem to have expired, such as automatic 10% off orders over 100EUR) and an interesting product mix: Facom, USAG, and Stahlwille. I have finally, over a month later, received all but two small items from my order. I think I posted the USAG bit ratchet and through socket set earlier, here's the rest of it.

Facom:
View media item 91219View media item 91223
I wanted to try a pair of straight combi pliers with spring assist after discovering NWS ErgoCombi, and Facom was the option I found. As you can see they just came in, and I literally just took them out of the packaging.

Pressmaster MCT in Facom's colorway was a luxury purchase, as I have a pretty extensive collection of Rennsteig/Knipex Crimp System dies and locators. So far I've only used MCT to crimp ferrules, but it seems like a fine tool. Fine enough that I ordered a set of open-barrel dies as well...I might end up keeping both setups, and using this one for anything not at my workbench. It's a lot less fussy for using multiple types of connectors than Rennsteig/Knipex Crimp System, because the dies stay connected and come out without screws or tools. They also have these neat interlocking die cases:
View media item 91220So I could see keeping the MCT stuff in an L-BOXX Mini and leaving Crimp System at my workbench. Or I might sell one of the systems off at some point. We'll see.

I also liked the straight long-reach Stahlwille pliers enough to get the bent-nose version. Mister Worker's price on these was insane. In the process I put together a complete 1/4" drive socket set, because I'm moving my excellent current set (Felo R-Go) to a toolkit in a different home. R-Go is such a nice package, and has both metric as well as the fractional sockets that are often needed for home DIY in the US. (The Felo spinner handle above is from the R-Go box.)
View media item 91212(Bit sockets on the end are Würth. Sourced from Koken?)

I mean literally complete: every size they offer: 3mm (!) to 14mm.
View media item 91214
The only negative is that I forgot I had pieced this set together on amazon.de along with some L-BOXX minis (Gedore and Fischer branding) and the stuff below, and it was coming on the slow boat. It took over 2 months to arrive, and showed up two days after the 'Willes. At least they were all shipped together, rather than piecemeal.
View media item 91217View media item 91218
I'm not sure I need both...

Other stuff from 'zon:
Knipex
View media item 91224
BMI. I wanted an nicer small tape measure than the typical Fatmax. I liked the Festool tape but I discovered this was the "original" and cheaper. The Pico has already proven useful for hanging pictures. You can pull the tape all the way out and mount the level to it.
View media item 91222
 

JBH

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Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
811
Last one, from Wiha Tools USA's recent 25% off sale:

View media item 91225
I've wanted to try out the Inomics for a while, but needed an excuse. First impression is that they're not at all long-reach pliers. The handles protrude almost as far as the jaws! The chisel driver is so I don't think about hitting my best screwdrivers (Felo woodies). The precision kit is to keep at work. It has the pentalobe set for Apple stuff.

I also needed a new fractional set for home, because as stated above my Felo R-Go kit is moving to a different home because it's so compact and complete. I was thinking Proto or Williams. Then I saw Wiha not only had Heyco open stock on clearance, but the 25% stacked on top. So here we are:
View media item 91215View media item 91216
I think there were 2 sizes Wiha didn't have, but those ended up being available as add-on items from Amazon US.

If you like shiny, these are shiny indeed! Shinier than Snapper, Williams, or Proto. I don't have Nepros sockets to compare. Even if I end up keeping the HZ's over the Willes, I will never have trouble distinguishing metric from AF.
View media item 91216
 

target

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Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
37
Location
EU
Gedore 19 DMU-20 3014347 1/2" Socket set.

IMG-6589-2.jpg


There are some issues with this set. It was bought at a reduced price from Ebay and did not come sealed so may be a customer return and therefore may not be a fair representation of Gedore in general. However I assume this set did make it through Gedore quality control at some point.

IMG-6597.jpg


The case is plastic and feels a little cheap and brittle. The hinges and latches are plastic with metal inserts. The foam tray is removable. The foam is cracking around the head of the ratchet. It's possible that the lubricant used in the ratchet is reacting with the foam.

IMG-6606.jpg


IMG-6620.jpg


IMG-6613.jpg


The 1993U-20 (60 tooth) quick release ratchet has a two component handle which consists of hard blue plastic and quite soft black rubber. The matt chrome finish has a rough tactile texture. There are lumpy edges and dark patches in the chrome finish. No Gedore logo on the handle?

IMG-6651.jpg


IMG-6652.jpg


IMG-6744.jpg


IMG-6737-2.jpg


The ratchet came well lubricated and opens easily via two torx screws. The gear pulls straight out but the pawl looks to be pressed into the direction lever. This means you don't have to worry about losing the ball and spring but limits access. The lever may just pry off but I didn't want to risk breaking it before I got to use it.

IMG-6527.jpg


The back drag is noticeably smoother and less audibly 'clicky' in one direction than the other. Same after cleaning and relubrication. I would guess that there is an inconsistency with the way the pawl sits when on one side.

IMG-6578.jpg


No.19 series sockets. 10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 22, 24, 27, 30, 32mm. The socket finish is matt chrome on the square end half and somewhere between satin and polished on the hex end half. The knurling sticks out proud from the socket and should provide extra grip when turning using fingers.

IMG-6709.jpg


IMG-6715.jpg


The chrome finish has some lumps and inconsistencies.

IMG-6693-2.jpg


IMG-6701.jpg


IMG-6700.jpg


Stahlwille/Gedore/Bahco knurling comparison. The Stahlwille is 1/4" drive so may not be a fair comparison.

IMG-6735.jpg


The 18mm and 19mm sockets don't lock on to the ratchet. When fitted to the ratchet the button stays mostly depressed showing that the ball is not fully entering the recesses. About half of the sockets don't lock onto my Facom QR ratchet. The recesses on the 18 and 19mm look to be cut lower down into the sockets compared to the others which may be the issue or it is possible that the inner coating (paint?) has been applied to thicky and is partly filling the recesses.

IMG-6723.jpg


IMG-6671.jpg


1990 KR-10 250mm universal (wobble) extension. Works as a normal extension when the socket is pushed on firmly. Also has knurling on the square end.

IMG-6623.jpg


IMG-6624.jpg


'Made in Germany' printed on the cardboard box and stamped on each individual tool.

IMG-6592.jpg


Sorry about mainly commenting on the negatives. It's harder to quantify the positive aspects which can be somewhat subjective. I really like the ratchet's feel in the hand and the low resistance of the back drag. I will be purchasing a couple of the missing socket sizes and swapping out the extension for a non wobble one. The non locking sockets was an easy fix with a rotary tool. Big thanks to KevinFox for posting this set in the deals section. :thumbup:

Woow Made in Germany = Quality ...my ***
Write to gedore about this or return if you can, is a serious issue. This reminds me of china cheap sets from the 90' :dunno:
 

OMMP

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Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
198
Sorry, but NWS generally does a bad job on their chrome plating, and pre-plating surface prep. Here are the pliers in question:

View media item 91199
They work very well, but they are not finely crafted.

Compare to a set of NWS-made needle nose for a rebrander with high standards, Phoenix Contact.

View media item 91201
As for other pliers, good chrome-plated pliers do not chip. Some examples of well-used chrome needle noses:

Gedore 160mm
View media item 91200
Stahlwille 200mm
View media item 91202
Wiha (Swiss) 200mm
View media item 91203
They may be a little dirty, but they're not chipped.



Orbis, to my knowledge, does not sell chromed pliers under their own brand. My comparison for Orbis had nothing to do with chrome. Rather, I think I like NWS ErgoCombi in use better than EvoPlus (which I've had for a while), because the spring opening works well in this format. But I prefer Orbis EvoTel to NWS ErgoMulti despite ErgoMulti's spring assist. EvoTel is similarly crude of build, but nonetheless is the default needlenose I'll grab.

Just to make it clear, where exactly is problematic part on NWS' chrome plating?
 

JBH

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Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
811
Just to make it clear, where exactly is problematic part on NWS' chrome plating?


You can’t really see where I had to file off part of the chrome in the picture, but look at all of the lumps and bumps on the teeth. Especially on the nut grip. That’s not dirt.

ErgoCombi is actually a great pair of pliers to use. The angle makes sense, the spring assist is useful, and they seem to grip as well as anything else. But finely crafted like Knipex, Gedore*, VBW they are not.

*Gedore pliers are universally excellent in function, fit, and finish. Their German made tools aren’t always beautiful, unlike their Austrian made pliers. From the pic above I can accept the ratchet finish. That is what their ratchets look like. Sockets that don’t seat properly however...no.
 

scubadoober

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Aug 15, 2017
Messages
511
We in the states view Gedore in the same light as other made in Germany brands. However, my understanding from speaking with someone from Germany they do not have high regard for Gedore. It is a cheaper brand, and does not hold the same esteem as Stahlwille, Hazet, or others. With that said it doesn't mean it is not a good value just not on the same plain.
 
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OMMP

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Just couldn't open photos, it's all been blackened over... It really seems that there are tiny scratches, as you referred to 'not dirt', or little bumps - but I'm sure they are completely useful on high professional level; yet again, buying top notch tools on fair prices develops one's really high expectations, and being members of GJ, call it by the right name - perfectionism...
 

mrspeed

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Messages
473
We in the states view Gedore in the same light as other made in Germany brands. However, my understanding from speaking with someone from Germany they do not have high regard for Gedore. It is a cheaper brand, and does not hold the same esteem as Stahlwille, Hazet, or others. With that said it doesn't mean it is not a good value just not on the same plain.
That's strange, and I wonder if it's colored by brand dilution from Gedore's lower quality Carolus line which is now called Gedore Red.

The Gedore pliers I have, made in Austria including long nose pliers, combination pliers, diagonal cutters, and locking pliers, are better quality than the Knipex equivalents. They have nicer dipped handles and nicer fit, feel, and finish.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

TjoFrasse

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Messages
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Location
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We in the states view Gedore in the same light as other made in Germany brands. However, my understanding from speaking with someone from Germany they do not have high regard for Gedore. It is a cheaper brand, and does not hold the same esteem as Stahlwille, Hazet, or others. With that said it doesn't mean it is not a good value just not on the same plain.

Woow Made in Germany = Quality ...my ***
Write to gedore about this or return if you can, is a serious issue. This reminds me of china cheap sets from the 90' :dunno:

That's strange, and I wonder if it's colored by brand dilution from Gedore's lower quality Carolus line which is now called Gedore Red.

The Gedore pliers I have, made in Austria including long nose pliers, combination pliers, diagonal cutters, and locking pliers, are better quality than the Knipex equivalents. They have nicer dipped handles and nicer fit, feel, and finish.

Just wanting to add my experience and opinion to this.

I think Monte also said sometime that Gedore is "Farmer finish", as in that they're durable and strong, but not always perfect finish. This also agrees with my own experience, I have some Gedore tools with imperfections (grinding marks, chrome spots and such) but nothing that affects the usability. So nothing like that the sockets doesn't seat correctly like mr.lemons described. This set is under the quality level I have experienced from many years of buying Gedore.

I find this finish level detectable in the price also, Gedore is almost always cheaper than Hazet or Stahlwille in my experience. That is one part of the reason I have kept buying Gedore.

Their pliers are an exception also, the Austria factory seems to have a much higher standard of work. I also don't think it has anything to do with Carolus/Gedore Red. They are manufactured in completely different factories (China/Taiwan).
 

mrspeed

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Their pliers are an exception also, the Austria factory seems to have a much higher standard of work. I also don't think it has anything to do with Carolus/Gedore Red. They are manufactured in completely different factories (China/Taiwan).

I wasn't saying Gedore's actual quality has anything to do with their budget lines. I was instead wondering if the perception of Gedore's quality declined in the minds of some consumers in part due to the existence and rebranding of their budget lines.

This is a real issue and the reason that companies often give a different brand name to their budget tools. I'd bet Gedore renamed Carolus to Gedore Red to capitalize on their brand recognition to promote their budget line. But I'd imagine it comes at the cost of diluting the perceived value of their quality tools.

At any rate, I've only bought their pliers which have been top rate, which is probably why I was surprised that their other tools don't have the same quality.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

TjoFrasse

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Sweden
I wasn't saying Gedore's actual quality has anything to do with their budget lines. I was instead wondering if the perception of Gedore's quality declined in the minds of some consumers in part due to the existence and rebranding of their budget lines.

This is a real issue and the reason that companies often give a different brand name to their budget tools. I'd bet Gedore renamed Carolus to Gedore Red to capitalize on their brand recognition to promote their budget line. But I'd imagine it comes at the cost of diluting the perceived value of their quality tools.

At any rate, I've only bought their pliers which have been top rate, which is probably why I was surprised that their other tools don't have the same quality.

Ah, sorry I misunderstood! I agree, I was very surprised when they revealed that they would call it Gedore Red. I like the Carolus stuff I have, but confusing it with the Gedore brand is a big risk.
 

OMMP

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Belzer set made another one jealous... If you have purchased it recently, could you tell what was the price and where did you buy it? Have similar one, box been rusted, set is half completed, so I am trying to make it full...
 

CRTDI

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Jan 11, 2010
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Belzer set made another one jealous... If you have purchased it recently, could you tell what was the price and where did you buy it? Have similar one, box been rusted, set is half completed, so I am trying to make it full...

This particular set, if I remember correctly was about $90.00 USD. Came out of England.

Some of my collecting interest is 1/4" drive sets. A lot of them can be seen here:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=405698&highlight=blackhawk

A couple more of my Belzer sets.

The small box has metric sockets and some cool looking magneto wrenches. The larger box, which I believe is earlier manufactured based on the decal design just has a few SAE hex drive sockets.

















 
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mr.lemons

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^ Nice Belzer pics.

A few recent arrivals in the next couple posts.

Good stuff JBH.

Do you know who does make standard USAG sockets?

235-1-2-N-F01.jpg


Woow Made in Germany = Quality ...my ***
Write to gedore about this or return if you can, is a serious issue. This reminds me of china cheap sets from the 90' :dunno:

Agreed there are no doubt some issues and I thought about returning the set but I am happy for the £50 paid as it's given me the opportunity to try some Gedore tools. As long as the tools function I don't mind if they are rough around the edges. Having to dremel the sockets was disappointing though.

Just seen Toptul are selling a version of the Facom Pico bit ratchet sets.

op-180718-09625.jpg
 
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target

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Sep 24, 2013
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^ Nice Belzer pics.



Good stuff JBH.

Do you know who does make standard USAG sockets?

235-1-2-N-F01.jpg




Agreed there are no doubt some issues and I thought about returning the set but I am happy for the £50 paid as it's given me the opportunity to try some Gedore tools. As long as the tools function I don't mind if they are rough around the edges. Having to dremel the sockets was disappointing though.

Just seen Toptul are selling a version of the Facom Pico bit ratchet sets.

op-180718-09625.jpg

Toptul is my favorite tools brand, the best Taiwanese price-qulity ratio brand.
And i'm tried a lot of Tawaneese tools brands :)
 
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mrspeed

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Apr 19, 2017
Messages
473
New Bahco linesman pliers made in France. Got a great deal on them used and they cleaned up well. I actually like these even more than I had expected. The handles are very comfortable, and they feel very solid and very smooth. Some of that smoothness may be from being broken in, you they don't already to have been used much. I might promote them to my top drawer.

Showing them next to another set of Bahco pliers with similar handles, but made in Spain.

Also, a comparison to some other linesman pliers I have, though only 3 out of 5 are from the old world.

IMG_20190316_151303~2.jpgIMG_20190316_151322.jpegIMG_20190316_151442.jpgIMG_20190317_104602~2.jpgIMG_20190317_104654~2.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 2 using The Garage Journal mobile app
 

JBH

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Jan 17, 2018
Messages
811
^ Nice Belzer pics.



Good stuff JBH.

Do you know who does make standard USAG sockets?

235-1-2-N-F01.jpg


No idea. I was just a little surprised that they’re different from Facom given that the two brands seem to sell the same tools. MisterWorker has open stock USAG for about a dollar each less than Facom. They work fine. It just doesn’t look like a set when they’re used to fill in a Würth set. Würth sockets are shaped like Facom.
 

mr.lemons

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Oct 24, 2017
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Spotted some JIS screwdrivers on a US Pro/Bergen stall at the autojumble. Chinese made screwdrivers that are purported to conform to a Japanese standard sold under a German sounding but probably not actually German brand name. :wtf: :)

IMG-20190317-111306.jpg


IMG-20190317-111312.jpg


IMG-20190317-111314.jpg
 

mr.lemons

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News from Facom.

Facom AXS.L (1/2") AXS.M (3/8") - AXS.S (1/4")

Looks to be very similar to the 'Tite-Reach Tool.'

https://www.facom.com/uk/products/AXS-Description.html

extension-de-cliquet-38-axsmpb-facom.jpg


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vzcAP1PHiE0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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Dave455

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Mar 19, 2013
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Sussex, England
Do you know who does make standard USAG sockets?

I had always assumed that USAG manufactured sockets themselves as they are, or at least were, a forging company. They are the manufacturer of the superb Facom “Palm Control” ratchets, and made a lot of other stuff for Facom. (Anything Facom that has “Made in Italy” on the packing is USAG)

Of course, USAG have now been bought out by Stanley, so expect quality to take a dive shortly, and Taiwanese stuff to replace the current offerings!
 
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