Either a stubby bit or a short extension
Tools from the old world
- Thread starter Monte
- Start date
Either a stubby bit or a short extension
Precivilization
Well-known member
PB Swiss Black Edition tools.
The black coating is 'diamond-like carbon (DLC).'
https://www.pbswisstools.com/en/news/detail/tiefschwarz-bis-in-die-spitzen/
The black coating is 'diamond-like carbon (DLC).'
https://www.pbswisstools.com/en/news/detail/tiefschwarz-bis-in-die-spitzen/
Bogdan M.
Well-known member
Picked up some Irwin pliers and a used pair of Mole Grips.
Didn't know Mole Grips were available with curved hardened jaws. Only seen straight jaws or non hardened curved. These also have cutters for some reason.
Irwin 1950506 160mm.
Back of the packaging has a removable trolley token?
Everything lines up well.
Spotted on ebay. Not sure if they have a specific use, just think the design is interesting.
'vintage Granit, swivel jaw plier / grips. Made in Germany'
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Granit-swivel-jaw-plier-grips-Made-in-Germany/202796606824
Didn't know Mole Grips were available with curved hardened jaws. Only seen straight jaws or non hardened curved. These also have cutters for some reason.
Irwin 1950506 160mm.
Back of the packaging has a removable trolley token?
Everything lines up well.
Spotted on ebay. Not sure if they have a specific use, just think the design is interesting.
'vintage Granit, swivel jaw plier / grips. Made in Germany'
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Granit-swivel-jaw-plier-grips-Made-in-Germany/202796606824
Bogdan M.
Well-known member
The beginnings of a Hazet 1/4" socket set.
Hazet compared to Koken. (10mm 1/4").
1/4" Koken sockets have thinner walls than Hazet. It is clear when looking down on them directly but the camera does not pick up the difference for some reason. Must be lighting.
Koken on the right. Second pic shows the difference more clearly.
Not sure wall thickness has ever been an issue for me but it gets mentioned a lot on GJ so though it was worth noting.
Hazet compared to Koken. (10mm 1/4").
1/4" Koken sockets have thinner walls than Hazet. It is clear when looking down on them directly but the camera does not pick up the difference for some reason. Must be lighting.
Koken on the right. Second pic shows the difference more clearly.
Not sure wall thickness has ever been an issue for me but it gets mentioned a lot on GJ so though it was worth noting.
I like those....Facom D.163-J6 low profile canister filter sockets. Bought used from Ebay. No COO. Assume they are from Taiwan but could be China, France etc.
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CGarage
Well-known member
This is an amazing thread.....
I am a long-time Facom user (20+ years) and tried some Hazet recently but was not impressed. I bought this 6 screwdriver Hazet set (made in Slovenia) and the tips were so soft they deformed on the first use. I gave them to my Porsche mechanic friend. Not impressed.
90 percent of what I buy is French (Facom) or Swiss (PB Swiss). They have never let me down but I am not using them daily, only for fun projects.
I am a long-time Facom user (20+ years) and tried some Hazet recently but was not impressed. I bought this 6 screwdriver Hazet set (made in Slovenia) and the tips were so soft they deformed on the first use. I gave them to my Porsche mechanic friend. Not impressed.
90 percent of what I buy is French (Facom) or Swiss (PB Swiss). They have never let me down but I am not using them daily, only for fun projects.
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CGarage
Well-known member
I own over 100 screwdrivers of all flavors from the major European manufacturers.
By far, the one I always reach for is this ratcheting Vessel Japanese screwdriver. It has a bit storage magazine inside the handle. The bits are JIS and they are phenomenal for all tasks.
I use these Gardena Germany scissors almost daily and they have never let me down.
By far, the one I always reach for is this ratcheting Vessel Japanese screwdriver. It has a bit storage magazine inside the handle. The bits are JIS and they are phenomenal for all tasks.
I use these Gardena Germany scissors almost daily and they have never let me down.
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Bogdan M.
Well-known member
Any pics of the deformed tips?
Under normal use, I really can't see how you could have damaged a Hazet screwdriver on first use.
Under normal use, I really can't see how you could have damaged a Hazet screwdriver on first use.
CGarage
Well-known member
Greetings to Romania (I love your shop),
I bought them a few years ago as a new set in Germany. They looked great when they arrived. I used the Phillips #1 or 2 for a simple task and noticed the tip deformed and was soft (the ridges of the philips appeared deformed). I am an amateur watchmaker as well so I know the importance of selecting the right screwdriver for the job with the right tip that fits (example: using Pozidrive for Pozidrive and not using Philips in exchange, etc). I was sad about this so I just gave them to my Porsche mechanic friend after one or two uses (only using the Phillips drivers in the set). Made in Slovenia didn’t really bother me as I know really good manufacturing quality exists in Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, etc....so I am not one of the “wave the flag” German-only fans.
I bought them a few years ago as a new set in Germany. They looked great when they arrived. I used the Phillips #1 or 2 for a simple task and noticed the tip deformed and was soft (the ridges of the philips appeared deformed). I am an amateur watchmaker as well so I know the importance of selecting the right screwdriver for the job with the right tip that fits (example: using Pozidrive for Pozidrive and not using Philips in exchange, etc). I was sad about this so I just gave them to my Porsche mechanic friend after one or two uses (only using the Phillips drivers in the set). Made in Slovenia didn’t really bother me as I know really good manufacturing quality exists in Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, etc....so I am not one of the “wave the flag” German-only fans.
upgrading
Well-known member
I like that Vessel ratcheting screwdriver.
CGarage
Well-known member
CGarage
Well-known member
Bogdan M.
Well-known member
That vintage set is cool.
My favorite screwdrivers are the ones with the Isoryl handle. I like the way the handle looks and I use them a lot and I never had any problems with them.
Thank you!
I am not doubting your feedback, but it's kind of surprising to me because I never had any bad experiences with Hazet.
A Hazet screwdriver set is very expensive when you compare it with a normal screwdriver set, so it's logical to expect top quality.
My favorite screwdrivers are the ones with the Isoryl handle. I like the way the handle looks and I use them a lot and I never had any problems with them.
Thank you!
I am not doubting your feedback, but it's kind of surprising to me because I never had any bad experiences with Hazet.
A Hazet screwdriver set is very expensive when you compare it with a normal screwdriver set, so it's logical to expect top quality.
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Dave455
Well-known member
Those particular Hazet drivers are their ‘budget’ line. They are generic Oplast drivers with handles in Hazet blue. They are available very cheaply, here in the U.K. they were available for the equivalent of $18 and that included tax and delivery.
Hazet also offer the Trinamic (hard handle) and Hexanamic (soft handle) which are higher priced but seem to be higher quality. I have some Trinamic in my road box and they seem to be durable, though I seldom use Phillips, which seems to be the toughest profile for screwdrivers.
Those older French made Facom were nice though. I have a couple, they were my first metric sized drivers. Wish I’d bought more!
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Considering the screwdrivers. I have various brands: Wera, Wiha, Felo, Witte, Stahlwille, Hazet (german, not slovenian made oplast), Belzer, Schroeder, Bahco (sweden made), etc.
I am also familiar with USA brands, Beta, Facom....
There are people on this forum (like Monte, mr. lemons, Dave455, etc) that can certainly give an expert opinion about brands, as I don't use screwdrivers every day.
Of course, Wiha and Wera are top notch. They are the Knipex of screwdrivers. Scroeder is, in some way, unknown brand - but makes (in my opinion) very nice screwdrivers. Stahlwille drall is fantastic. Old hazet's (german made) are great. Etc, etc, etc.
However, I have a feeling (maybe I am wrong) that old red Belzer screwdrivers (marked Germany, or W. Germany) are probably the best screwdrivers ever made. Again, maybe I am wrong, but they seem almost indestructible.
I am also familiar with USA brands, Beta, Facom....
There are people on this forum (like Monte, mr. lemons, Dave455, etc) that can certainly give an expert opinion about brands, as I don't use screwdrivers every day.
Of course, Wiha and Wera are top notch. They are the Knipex of screwdrivers.
Scroeder is, in some way, unknown brand - but makes (in my opinion) very nice screwdrivers. Stahlwille drall is fantastic. Old hazet's (german made) are great. Etc, etc, etc.However, I have a feeling (maybe I am wrong) that old red Belzer screwdrivers (marked Germany, or W. Germany) are probably the best screwdrivers ever made. Again, maybe I am wrong, but they seem almost indestructible.
CGarage
Well-known member
I agree with you. The orange plastic handle Facom screwdrivers are the best.
I have seen they are the most well liked and popular model as well. Having been in many high end car workshops and independent watchmaker workshops in France and Switzerland, they were the only screwdriver I ever saw- and I looked on every trip as you can tell how serious a craftsman is based on the tools he has. Particularly in the field of independent watchmaking.
CGarage
Well-known member
Thank you for explaining this. I remembered in the German package they said something about being made for household general purpose use or similar. My friend was very happy to receive them so it turned out well. I think I paid around $40 USD shipped.
CGarage
Well-known member
Considering the screwdrivers. I have various brands: Wera, Wiha, Felo, Witte, Stahlwille, Hazet (german, not slovenian made oplast), Belzer, Schroeder, Bahco (sweden made), etc.
I am also familiar with USA brands, Beta, Facom....
There are people on this forum (like Monte, mr. lemons, Dave455, etc) that can certainly give an expert opinion about brands, as I don't use screwdrivers every day.
Of course, Wiha and Wera are top notch. They are the Knipex of screwdrivers.
However, I have a feeling (maybe I am wrong) that old red Belzer screwdrivers (marked Germany, or W. Germany) are probably the best screwdrivers ever made. Again, maybe I am wrong, but they seem almost indestructible.
Really interesting. I have some Wiha and I am happy with those. Especially the microelectronic tools from Wiha. I still prefer my Facom sets, slightly.
I have the Wera stainless steel screwdrivers with stainless laser cut tips to use on stainless steel fasteners. Very nice also.
I like Felo, too. Especially for use on Mercedes-Benz fasteners. It seems like they were made for Felo and the fit is 100% perfect. In fact, I will only use Felo on MB fasteners. I have a few other Hazet and Stahlwille pieces. No one in the US ever speaks about Gedore which is a surprise.
So far, I have screwdriver sets from Wera, Wiha, Witte, Facom/USAG, PB Swiss, Beta, Hazet (Oplast), Felo, Heyco, Bahco, Bahco/Irazola, Beta, Stahlwille (Witte), MOB Peddinghaus, Matador (HKR), Sora, and Elora (not sure who makes these). Some screwdrivers on my radar that I haven't tried yet are Athlet, Schröder, and Vessel. I have a few Vessel bit drivers I really like, but haven't tried any of their regular screwdrivers. I also haven't tried the Gedore, since I think they're made by Oplast as well and I already have the Hazets.
My plan was to try these all out myself and compare, keep my favorites, and sell or get rid of the rest. Instead, I ended up liking many of them for different reasons, and so now I have a large selection of screwdrivers that a choose from each time I reach for a screwdriver.
So far, my favorites are probably the Facom/USAG, Wera, Witte, and Bahco. The Facom feel the highest quality in the hand and are pretty comfortable, the Wera laser tips grip screws really well, the tri lobe handles on the Witte are really comfortable and help me apply a decent amount of torque, and the impact versions of the Bahco have really stout shanks and grippy handles. I also like the parallel ground blades of the PB Swiss slotted drivers, I just don't need them very often. Otherwise, I like the Facom handles better than the PB Swiss. For bits, so far my favorite are Felo. I don't know how to explain it, they just seem so solid compared to other bits. I've heard good things about PB Swiss bits, but haven't tried them yet.
One thing that surprised me was how little I was impressed by the Wiha given how many people say they are their favorite. They're great screwdrivers to be sure, they just don't seem the best at one thing compared to all the other quality screwdrivers, and the handles are just kind of blah.
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My plan was to try these all out myself and compare, keep my favorites, and sell or get rid of the rest. Instead, I ended up liking many of them for different reasons, and so now I have a large selection of screwdrivers that a choose from each time I reach for a screwdriver.
So far, my favorites are probably the Facom/USAG, Wera, Witte, and Bahco. The Facom feel the highest quality in the hand and are pretty comfortable, the Wera laser tips grip screws really well, the tri lobe handles on the Witte are really comfortable and help me apply a decent amount of torque, and the impact versions of the Bahco have really stout shanks and grippy handles. I also like the parallel ground blades of the PB Swiss slotted drivers, I just don't need them very often. Otherwise, I like the Facom handles better than the PB Swiss. For bits, so far my favorite are Felo. I don't know how to explain it, they just seem so solid compared to other bits. I've heard good things about PB Swiss bits, but haven't tried them yet.
One thing that surprised me was how little I was impressed by the Wiha given how many people say they are their favorite. They're great screwdrivers to be sure, they just don't seem the best at one thing compared to all the other quality screwdrivers, and the handles are just kind of blah.
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The nicest thing when you have the facom and USAG ones is that you have different blade sizes for the same tip...
Dave455
Well-known member
There are people on this forum (like Monte, mr. lemons, Dave455, etc) that can certainly give an expert opinion about brands, as I don't use screwdrivers every day.
Of course, Wiha and Wera are top notch. They are the Knipex of screwdrivers.
However, I have a feeling (maybe I am wrong) that old red Belzer screwdrivers (marked Germany, or W. Germany) are probably the best screwdrivers ever made. Again, maybe I am wrong, but they seem almost indestructible.
I’m no expert - just been fortunate enough to use a lot of different makes, and interested enough to notice!
I used to work for a company that did a lot of repetitive assembly work, and when you are using the same tool time and time again, you find out what works,
Most times, what you think is decent probably is! Snap On from the U.S, PB Swiss, and most of the well known German makes like Wiha. Many times though, factories choose what’s readily available. My old firm used Wiha, because their trade supplier kept them.
Totally with you regarding Belzer, they were my Dad’s all time favourite! I still have his, but few others. The handle shape (my all time favourite) was copied by Kamasa in the 80’s, but the blades were not as good!
CGarage
Well-known member
I am not sure I understand. Please explain. I have Facom and USAG both.
Are you talking about length of the shank/shaft on these screwdrivers?
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CGarage
Well-known member
The purchasing staff inevitably order whatever is easy and convenient that allows for standardization and replacement. Sad but true. They rarely spend wisely and most do not know how to shop or do simple quality:value:cost analysis.
I Think do you Have facom enduro and USAG 323..Or the last models of USAG/facom are the same in handle (Protwist) but their sets have different shank's size length (for example in PH2 facom have 5" and USAG 4") so i wanted to ask him if he switched from one to another because i found the facom one is to heavy for some applications and i should change to USAG to work in comfort, also in other cases changing for a hexagonal shank bring confort..
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CGarage
Well-known member
A few more-
Facom red box R426 1/4” kit- this is proper vintage French Facom. I’ve used this set religiously for over 10 years and love it. I believe it started life as a 1/4” 12pt SAE socket set and I ordered matching 1/4” metric sockets for it.
Facom RNano- love it...this has the rotator ratchet which I have used to great affect.
Facom 1/4” R.PEJ31- World’s smallest and thinnest ratchet. Saved me so much time in tight spaces...this is a must have.
USAG 610 1/4” shallow socket set- Have not used it yet but had to have it.
Facom “Special Kit”- This has the other 1/4” flex head mini ratchet, adapters for converting combination wrench box ends into socket holders, bits, my 1/4” drive metric socket set, etc...
I call this my “front line” kit and it sits in a portable tool bag ready to go for quick projects.
P.S. I do use my tools but I oil them and wipe them down after every use so I’ve managed to keep them in great shape as a result. I use them for general home and automotive/boat/aviation mechanics use and occasionally for gun smithing, watchmaking, and robotics/UAV hobbies.
Facom red box R426 1/4” kit- this is proper vintage French Facom. I’ve used this set religiously for over 10 years and love it. I believe it started life as a 1/4” 12pt SAE socket set and I ordered matching 1/4” metric sockets for it.
Facom RNano- love it...this has the rotator ratchet which I have used to great affect.
Facom 1/4” R.PEJ31- World’s smallest and thinnest ratchet. Saved me so much time in tight spaces...this is a must have.
USAG 610 1/4” shallow socket set- Have not used it yet but had to have it.
Facom “Special Kit”- This has the other 1/4” flex head mini ratchet, adapters for converting combination wrench box ends into socket holders, bits, my 1/4” drive metric socket set, etc...
I call this my “front line” kit and it sits in a portable tool bag ready to go for quick projects.
P.S. I do use my tools but I oil them and wipe them down after every use so I’ve managed to keep them in great shape as a result. I use them for general home and automotive/boat/aviation mechanics use and occasionally for gun smithing, watchmaking, and robotics/UAV hobbies.
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I tried a version of their (Oplast/Slovenia) precision drivers and have to agree - the phillips 0 looked distorted after the first couple uses. On the other hand, their torx drivers have fared better, likely due to the geometry which has to withstand the bulk of the torque.
That's disappointing. Never really heard anything negative about Hazet or Oplast. I assumed even their lower cost tools were up to a certain standard and would be good enough quality to hold up to daily use. Nice Facom tools.
Thank you but no expert.
to the other guys on this thread. Just came here for a bit guidance on upgrading some of my tools and it became a bit of a hobby. Still learning mostly by making errors. jensputzier
Well-known member
If you like Hazet tools and need a pre Christmas treat:
We ship the new 2019 Hazet advent calendar with a 20% OFF voucher for Hazet orders in our store. This 20% OFF is valid for an unlimited number of orders from November 1st 2019 until December 31st 2020, so a full 14 months!
https://www.jensputzier.com/hazet-advent-calendar-2020-with-20-discount-code-4938.html
We ship the new 2019 Hazet advent calendar with a 20% OFF voucher for Hazet orders in our store. This 20% OFF is valid for an unlimited number of orders from November 1st 2019 until December 31st 2020, so a full 14 months!
https://www.jensputzier.com/hazet-advent-calendar-2020-with-20-discount-code-4938.html
Cybermike
Well-known member
Those Hazet drivers are indeed at the low end of Hazet's quality, but than again so is the price
Their 'Budgetline' is Vigor. https://www.vigor-equipment.de/index.php Just like Gedore and Gedore Red.Those Hazet drivers are indeed at the low end of Hazet's quality, but than again so is the price
I have had the opportunity to experience the Vigor line of tools whilst I was in Germany.
It is dreadful the least, better get something of eBay; It is a personal opinion though.
To give you an example Gedore Red/ Carolus is first class compared to Vigor[emoji6]
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It might also depend on when the screwdrivers are made. I own an old Hazet 806 precision hex screwdriver set made in Slovenia and the quality are ******. I can barely insert one into the screw. But the finishing of the new Slovenia made Hazet 802 and gedore precision drivers are absolutely awesome.
In contrast I have some old Facom Enduro and Micro tech screwdrivers from the 90s, they have the best finishing among my collection. My friend ordered a new set last year, they are so much worse. My Protwist series drivers also have very bad finishing on both shank and handle, even though they are still made in france.
dutchgray
Well-known member
Picked up some Irwin pliers and a used pair of Mole Grips.
Didn't know Mole Grips were available with curved hardened jaws. Only seen straight jaws or non hardened curved. These also have cutters for some reason.
Never seen any curved pairs in the wild myself so they must be reasonably rare, they look to be in good nick to so a nice find. I buy old Mole grips whenever I see them in decent condition, which is only one or two pairs a year from all the carboots I go to.
I hadn't even thought of that, and had not paid attention to what sizes were actually offered from each. I've bought several sets of the Protwist, some from Facom and some from USAG, just whatever was on sale at the moment, and then combined them.
Looking through USAG's and Facom's online catalogues, I'm now realizing there are more varieties of even the basic Phillips screwdrivers than I had thought, so I'm not even sure which ones I have between the sand-blasted tips and black-coated tips.
From my post, the Bahco's I was saying that I liked with the impact-through hexagonal shanks I believe were the old Belzer design multi-component handles. Those aren't the one's you're talking about though, right? Are you both referring to the hard-handled Belzers that looked like this Kamasa screwdriver?
I think you have the black tips and the stainless ones, or the sand blasted tips are discontinued in 2018, they are like the bost or USAG 322 or Expert ones but in protwist handle, however their sets have the same sizes in the insulated Ones (Facom VE/USAG 092...) by the way their borneo or mixed head are the good ones for insulated terminals..
I have a few old Felo screwdrivers, where you have tips on both ends, so you can reverse them... Very practical design. I think those screwdrivers were used in Mercedes toolkits.
PB Swiss - excellent screwdrivers. But I don't like them, because handles just smell funny.
Beside Kamasa (Japan made), old green Dowidat screwdrivers also had similar design like Belzer.
By the way, old German made Belzer had superb tools. I have a few screwdrivers, pliers, wrenches... Top quality. In line with the few best brends, if not better comparing to some of them. Of course, this is just my feeling.
Not so easy to find Belzers, as company disappeared decades ago. (today's South American Belzer is just using the name, have nothing to do with original company.)
Yes, exactly. Hard-handled red Belzers.
I will attach some pictures these days.