Tools from the old world

[Ganymedes]

Thank you very much Mr. Lemons: I found all six errors and like to win this superb roller with contents! Happy x-mas, Johan

 

[gorskikotar]

 

[Kasal]

Usag 285 KA

 

[Qualitytools]

How many would you need?

I would be interested in one also. Thanks

 

[Qualitytools]

I contacted the company that sells these and they will not ship to the USA. Anybody in Germany want to buy a few and ship to the USA? That would help us out.

Yes I would be interested in one also. Thanks

 

[dutchgray]

SDS hits a LOT harder than a hammer drill, but turns a fair bit slower.

If you are an old codger like me, you might remember handheld star drills and fibre rawlplugs. The star drill was basically a punch with a cruciform section. You hit it, turned it a bit, hit it again, turned it a bit, hit it again and so on, seemingly ad infinitum. It made holes pretty well to be fair, but was hard work and very slow.

Electric hammer drills are a big improvement over star drills. SDS can be at least as big an improvement over electric hammer drills, though it does depend on what you are drilling.

Where are you? Brick might seem like it's all the same at first glance, but it ain't. If you are in London, the majority of brick is made from London Clay and is soft. Get up to Staffordshire and it's made from Etruria Marl and seems a fair bit harder. Up into Lancashire and it's made from shale and is very hard (Accrington Nori brick is so hard, it was shipped across and used for the foundations of the Empire State Building). Staffordshire Blue Engineering brick is also extremely hard: made from Etruria Marl (the clay that Josiah Wedgewood used in Wedgewood pottery), but reduction-fired to get the higher hardness and blue colour.

In most cases, brick is cheap to make and expensive to move, so you get to deal with the locally-sourced stuff. The harder bricks will get used out of their local area if there is a need for a tall building, where the weight of the walls would crush the bottom courses if built from local brick.

SDS drills have tended to be specced on either weight or impact energy. For a handheld SDS used for drilling brick, between 1 and 2 Joules impact energy is a good range: the 2-3kg range. Too much impact energy and you'll be knocking the back out of bricks when only half-way through.

The cheapest, nastiest SDS will outperform the best hammer drill by a huge margin in most cases. I'm not sure about London brick, but a 7mm SDS is probably at least 5 times faster in our local brick (Lancashire).

If you've knackered a twenty quid chuck and a few two-quid bits already, you'd probably have been almost as well off getting a fifty-quid SDS drill and a few one-quid SDS bits from Screwfix, or wherever, without even factoring in the time saving (assuming you can use 240V tools on site).

Buying a good set of SDS bits makes reasonable sense, but if you have a lot of holes the same size to drill, buying several of the cheap ones in the size you need is usually better: they drill much quicker when sharp, and expensive carbide doesn't wear all that much slower than cheap carbide.

With a chuck adaptor and the hammer action disengaged, SDS drills also tend to be better for biggish holes in wood and steel than many old-school hammer drills, just because they turn slower and generate more torque.

Most modern bricks have a lot of sand in the clay mix and are generally quite soft, I live in a former brick town in the south (the brick works shut in the 70's) and those bricks, horrible flat red things, frogless, imperial sized and on the large size at that, are hard work even with an SDS, sometimes the brick will move in the wall before you can drill it. Their standard bricks would almost meet the spec for an engineering brick.

If you are drilling masonry you want an SDS, they are so cheap and make the job so much easier you just buy one and drill holes.
I have a Dewalt in the 2kg class and we have a slightly better Makita at work.

 

[theamcguy]

How many would you need?

PM sent just need one.

 

[E.T.]

Also in for a bottle opener depending on price delivered.

 

[pistolpete1313]

Small correction, but since this thread is about tools from non English speaking countries, the SDS English abbreviation was added later. The original meaning was:

"The name comes from the German: Stecken – Drehen – Sichern ("Insert – Twist – Secure")". It was developed by Hilti and Bosch.

I didn’t use SDS at first either. I had a big old AEG hammer drill (actually my Dad’s) and that seemed to work o.k, though in retrospect it didn’t. The problem with a hammer drill is that the drill bit is still fixed to the chuck, so a lot of the hammering action is wasted. A heavier drill almost seems to work against you.

In an SDS (Special Direct System) the drill bit is free to slide, and you won’t believe the difference it makes.

Re read the post from timgunn above - this is 100% spot on!

Yes, even a cheap SDS is better than a conventional hammer drill. An electrician friend has a cheapo one that he uses as a backup. I used it helping on one job and couldn’t believe how well it worked.

I bought a Screwfix Titan to do one job in a dirty environment. Reduced from circa £70 to £50 on a deal, and I can’t believe how good it is. I’ve been using it instead of my Bosch, waiting for it to fail, and it just keeps going. My advice would be to pick up a cheap one and just go for it.

Yes, bricks vary, though I wasn’t sure of the reasons why till reading timgunns post. Here in Sussex, bricks are incredibly variable. Some are easy to drill, most are much harder, and some (very old, blue tinged) are almost impossible to drill with a conventional hammer drill. The SDS deals with all of them.

Edit - this is the Titan one I got. 6kg / 1500 watt and still only £70 full price!

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[jaceq]

Beta again, but this time I bet these are not made in Italy:

 

[Dave455]

Small correction, but since this thread is about tools from non English speaking countries, the SDS English abbreviation was added later. The original meaning was:

"The name comes from the German: Stecken – Drehen – Sichern ("Insert – Twist – Secure")". It was developed by Hilti and Bosch.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using The Garage Journal mobile app

That makes total sense!

I never thought “Special Direct System” ever did - it’s like those meaningless English words you sometimes find on Japanese products!

I think “Old World” includes the U.K. though!

 

[macgee]

I think “Old World” includes the U.K. though!

Correct and don't forget about Ireland

 

[mr.lemons]

Where are you? Brick might seem like it's all the same at first glance, but it ain't. If you are in London, the majority of brick is made from London Clay and is soft. Get up to Staffordshire and it's made from Etruria Marl and seems a fair bit harder. Up into Lancashire and it's made from shale and is very hard (Accrington Nori brick is so hard, it was shipped across and used for the foundations of the Empire State Building). Staffordshire Blue Engineering brick is also extremely hard: made from Etruria Marl (the clay that Josiah Wedgewood used in Wedgewood pottery), but reduction-fired to get the higher hardness and blue colour.

Thanks for the info. I originate from Lancashire (Bolton). My late Dad was very proud of Accrington bricks and kept a small collection of 'interesting' examples in the back garden. Dads are weird, and then you get a bit older and wish you had talked to them about bricks more often. I'm now living/working in Lincolnshire.

Cordless would be much more convenient, but I think a cheap mains SDS might be a Christmas present to myself.

+ thanks for the other sds replies.

I keep seeing SDS as 'Slotted Drive System' on UK websites.

 

[mr.lemons]

I contacted the company that sells these and they will not ship to the USA. Anybody in Germany want to buy a few and ship to the USA? That would help us out.

No shipping to UK either. Currently, Germany only.

From Reddit...

Apparently these are (as they appear to be) modified Cobra 125 pliers arms, and they are 'Manufactured by KNIPEX trainees.'

Previous limited release (was also only available in Germany)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ytoEsIFpWAY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Qualitytools]

mr lemons thank you for letting us know, Boo

 

[Dave455]

A set of Wiha Micro Finish screwdrivers arrived today.

These are a Christmas present (I don’t really need more Screwdrivers myself, although you can never have too many screwdrivers...)

I have to say, very nice. I like these much more than the soft finish ones, as the black insert material is obviously a lot more durable. I’d like them even more if they were something easier to wipe clean, but there you go.

To put things into perspective, just one Snap On Instinct screwdriver (1/4 inch) will cost me £24 ($33) here in the U.K. This set of 6 Wiha drivers cost me just £23 ($31) delivered! That has to be good value.

 

[Jack84]

Beta again, but this time I bet these are not made in Italy:

Do you see an COO anywhere on it?
I have a Beta ratchet, no COO as well. Although the JIS screw on the lid is a give away.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[Dave455]

Beta again, but this time I bet these are not made in Italy:

Those remind me of some of the current Gedore adjustables.

Made in China!

 

[Dave455]

Do you see an COO anywhere on it?
I have a Beta ratchet, no COO as well. Although the JIS screw on the lid is a give away.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

The beta stuff can be incredibly confusing.

Some of the lines, such as the Beta “Easy” are budget, and predominantly Chinese. This seems to be the case irrespective of the tool.

The regular stuff is variable. I have a 3/4 drive socket set that was marked “Made in Italy” on the packing, presumably to comply with U.K. regs. The tools themselves are unmarked.

It’s decent quality and was fairly priced, but that was a good 15 years back. I don’t know where the regular stuff is made now. It may still be Italian, but Beta don’t make it easy to tell.

I bought a 10mm bit holder at the same time as the socket set, which was Italian. Some extra bits I bought recently are Taiwanese. They’re not the same quality as the old ones.

The top end (aerospace grade) socket sets are made by KoKen. Nothing wrong with that, but generally cheaper to get KoKen direct.

I’ve seen pliers and wrenches that were marked “Made in Italy” too, and have no reason to doubt. Both the regular and professional lines (of wrenches) were so marked, differing only in the quality of finish.

The Beta “Max” screwdrivers are Italian too, or at least were. I have a set of Torx that have lasted really well.

Ultimately, the Italian Beta seems to be o.k. (if not top end) and fairly priced, Taiwanese at the same price is not such a good deal, and I don’t need to buy Chinese at any price. If Beta make it too difficult to tell what you are getting then I’ll get something else. In fact I have, I’ve just replaced all those 10mm bits with KoKen!

 

[Kasal]

quick nut for grinder

 

[mr.lemons]

A set of Wiha Micro Finish screwdrivers arrived today.

Nice. Interested to know what you'll think of them after some use.


I certainly went cheap on an SDS drill. £40 on clearance from Wickes.

+ Hikoki 18v impact driver. 12v Bosch was just not cutting it on concrete screws. Had to keep using a ratchet as a backup when it gave up. Not a particular fan of Hikoki, I bought a Hitachi drill on clearance when they changed brand names so have batteries and charger.

Drill and impact made in China, Dewalt SDS bit made in Germany.

 

[Dave455]

Nice. Interested to know what you'll think of them after some use.


I certainly went cheap on an SDS drill. £40 on clearance from Wickes.

Good decision!

I don’t normally advocate mega cheap tools, but cheap drills still seem to work reasonably well, and even if you end up with a much better SDS, there are always uses for a cheapo one!

I think you will find it works surprisingly well!

 

[mr.lemons]

Xiaomi Ratchet Screwdriver 2.0

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3X5WmxEhpxo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[upgrading]

Xiaomi looks quite "mod"

 

[JBH]

Xiaomi Ratchet Screwdriver 2.0

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3X5WmxEhpxo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This one uses Ultradriver bits, it appears. How does it compare to other ratcheting screwdrivers

 

[dede2897234]

USAG/Facom from MisterWorker


Facom roto bit ratchet, USAG “RBRT” hex bits with 1/4” drive socket adapter, (yet another) “pico” bit set with locking bit ratchet and extension, (a couple more) 11mm outer hex locking flex ratchets (to stick in those super-useful Würth pass-through socket + low-profile bit boxes), 2.5mm slotted USAG jeweler's screwdriver to go with a set of Phliips I picked up.
View media item 107802

RBRT bit pouch. This seems to be the most practical set of all the SBD subsidiary RBRT bit offerings, even if the embroidery isn't exactly worthy of Mariano Rubinacci.
View media item 107803
Facom rotator-handle bit ratchet. Why rotator bit ratchet? This is a useful tool when you're trying to work a screw in near something rubber or foam, and don't want to risk a slip-and-puncture.
View media item 107804
This tool is more interesting in design than I thought. It’s actually a 1-way ratchet. The bit goes in both ends, so you can turn both ways. Bit retention is by clips on both sides. There is a floating bit stopper, which is (somewhat surprisingly) not magnetic. There are concentric gear-sets, that work differently when you use as a rotator vs a ratchet.
View media item 107804View media item 107805View media item 107807
It was very well lubricated, and feels considerably smoother than my Facom rotator ratchet.
View media item 107806
So far I've used it a few times, and I'm impressed. I don't know if it would work well in wood - I've only used it with screws in T-nuts or threaded inserts - but I will get a lot of use out of this little thing.

Hi JBH,

Thanks for posting the above purchases from MisterWorker.

I drooled over your small haul and made the same purchases!

I will definitely buy from them again!

When I received my initial package containing only the USAG bit ratchet set and the USAG RBRT hex bits, I fired off an email to MisterWorker customer service. Within a day, I received a friendly email from an agent apologizing about my package missing the Facom 1/4" drive bit ratchet; and will investigate the matter. Less than 24 hours after the email, a package containing the Facom bit ratchet was shipped out. Great customer service!

To supplement what JBH mentioned about the Facom bit ratchet, it works with standard 25mm and stubby 19mm (Anex) hex bits.

Here are some pictures:

IMG_20201212_155137156 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_155204890 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_160053369 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_160119898 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

Dave

 

[dede2897234]

Amazon UK

IMG_20201212_160443227 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_160457776 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_160658473 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_160736521 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_160833329 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

Ability to tighten the pivot joint with a 5mm hex key

IMG_20201212_161310278 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

Dave

 

[dede2897234]

KC Tool (US)

IMG_20201212_170544328 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_170630867 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

Stahlwille on bottom

IMG_20201212_170836561 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

Stahlwille on right

IMG_20201212_170923650 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

Stahlwille on right

I have 2 minor quibbles about the Stahlwille. First, it needs to be lubricated where the hex bits are inserted. It is tough to pull out the bits from its corresponding holding mechanism. Second, since a circular cover exists over the female hex ratchet mechanism, it is hard to align the bit to the inside of the ratchet. The USAG locking flex ratchet does not have this problem.

The Stahlwille bit ratchet has a slightly smoother ratchet mechanism than the USAG (80 vs 72 teeth). The Stahlwille will work in more compact places (width of head and length of ratchet) versus the USAG ratchet.

IMG_20201219_163409961 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

Dave

 

[dede2897234]

Chadstoolbox

IMG_20201212_161711340 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_161636773 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_161734558 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_162259850 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

Unfortunately, the set comes with security hex and torx bits. Wera sells separately non-security hex and torx bits that are compatible with the Kraftform Kompakft handle.

IMG_20201212_164820104 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_164945958 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

One of the negatives mentioned in the Amazon reviews is that the bits are rust prone. I applied with a rag Fluid Film to all of the bits. Another negative is that the long bits wobble in the locking bit mechanism. I do not think it will be a problem if the bit end is engaged onto a fastener.

IMG_20201212_165047240 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

Dave

 

[dede2897234]

eBay

IMG_20201212_144414652 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_144427750 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_144530452 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

I noticed on some Wera bolt-holding sockets, the 2 balls providing the holding function appear on the same interior wall side of the socket.

IMG_20201212_144551072 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

On the other sockets, the 2 balls providing the holding function appear on the opposite interior sides of the socket.

IMG_20201212_145424438 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

Dave

 

[dede2897234]

Chadstoolbox

IMG_20201212_145538012 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

IMG_20201212_145612654 by david_edelman_ohio, on Flickr

Dave

 

[jaceq]

Do you see an COO anywhere on it?
I have a Beta ratchet, no COO as well. Although the JIS screw on the lid is a give away.

Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

COO is not mentioned on wrenches, neither is mentioned on the packaging/label. They are a good quality wrenches - jaws are well machined, smooth and precise, no loose. Chrome version - very good laser marking, much better than on the black. Both wrenches have inch marking on one side and mm marking on the other - small thing but very rare. Among many adjustable wrenches I own, only Milwaukee has marking on both sides.

 

[mr.lemons]

This one uses Ultradriver bits, it appears. How does it compare to other ratcheting screwdrivers

Not sure if they are proper Wiha bits. I hope they are.

I really like the old and new version, but it's for superficial reasons. The rubber handles have a nice smooth feel, they look cool all blacked out, and there's just something fun and gadgety about them. They are definitely well-designed and put together, but more as a gadget than a proper tool IMHO.

 

[pizza]

No shipping to UK either. Currently, Germany only.

From Reddit...

Apparently these are (as they appear to be) modified Cobra 125 pliers arms, and they are 'Manufactured by KNIPEX trainees.'

Previous limited release (was also only available in Germany)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ytoEsIFpWAY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

i compiled some info on the three bottle openers they've made so far: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470011

i think my favorite was last year's pliers wrench version, but this year's is cool too.

i'm also willing to do a group buy (see that thread for details)

 

[mr.lemons]

^ Nice haul dede2897234.

i compiled some info on the three bottle openers they've made so far:

Wonder why Knipex seem to want to keep these limited, I'm sure they would sell loads if they made them available.




Looks like Bosch 12v screwdrivers have had an update. Not sure if it's just a new look or new specs too.

https://www.bosch-professional.com/gb/en/products/gsb-12v-35-06019J9002

 

[JBH]

Looks like Bosch 12v screwdrivers have had an update. Not sure if it's just a new look or new specs too.

https://www.bosch-professional.com/gb/en/products/gsb-12v-35-06019J9002

These have been out for a couple months. I picked up the Flexiclick version in a Black Friday sale. It certainly doesn’t have the power of my other drill (Fein 18V) but it’s lighter and can fit places where the Fein bruiser can’t.

 

[Reed Prince]

Bosch sure does choose odd names for some of their tools in North America.

 

[Ganymedes]

Monte, do you know that ZEREM is/was a spin-off of HAZET and an abbreviation of ZErver REMscheid , I know this for a while, after searching because I got a dog-bone wrench from a friend. Nice X-mas to you and your relatives.

 

[pizza]

got an order from KTC.

precision bit set from wiha, wera hex keys, and their 6-piece bottle opener set.
i added the VDE wera opener to the order, and i put my klein opener on the right just for the picture.

 

[E.T.]

I should’ve grabbed one of those Gedore openers back when it was free with any purchase. Looks like the most useful of the bunch. Not a fan of chunky clunky handles.