Tools from the old world

[pizza]

the coloured coating. I always assumed it was some sort of anodizing to make them look pretty and maybe for rust protection, but it seems that there is more to it. According to the vid, the bits are 'Plasma' coated. Interesting info about heat protection and how the different colours relate to the thickness of the coating.

Comparison to diamond coating here.
http://www.pbtools.us/uploads/Precision_Bits_Nanotech_Coating.pdf

since you are curious about this topic

pretty sure they're coated via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_vapor_deposition

the color effect is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film_interference
TFI is fascinating
see also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_coloration

sup with those rings though? never seen that. is that a new style? old style?

Not sure how much of the above is just sales babble and how much makes a practical difference. Cool though.

dunno. it could make a difference depending on what they deposit, but i don't think they say what it is.

it makes their bits look good as hell though.

 

[mr.lemons]

Not particularly light reading for a Sunday afternoon, but very interesting.

Haven't noticed the bands before.

Referenced here as 'PB Swiss Tools size identification scheme.'

https://toolguyd.com/pb-swiss-tools-insider-bit-driver-review/

Maybe something that was trialled for a short while.

 

[Dave455]

sup with those rings though? never seen that. is that a new style? old style?

That’s an old style.

When they first introduced the coloured bits (the colour denoting the type of bit) they also introduced the coloured rings (the colour denoting the size).

It was not a success. As, unlike others, the bits were not grooved (and they didn’t want to weaken them by doing this) they struggled to keep the painted rings neat, so dropped them.

The coloured finish on the current bits is absolutely superb.

 

[measuredtwice]

that megapro direction changer looks kinda like rolgear. guessing that's just a coincidence, and it's a clicky mechanism?

The MegaPro and MegaPro Automotive ratchets have a clicky mechanism. This Youtuber disassembled one to show the parts. -->

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/b1HPMS26Ea4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Just got mine and I'm happy that I bought it. It's a good design and it's no wonder it is being so widely copied.


...


Those who enjoy good photos might like these 2 foreign language forums. I can't understand what they are saying and automatic translation is often poor but there are some great photos from some very serious tool aficionados.

mastergrad.com (Russian)
thaihandtool.com (Thai)

I do image searches like "site:thaihandtool.com PB Swiss" --> https://www.google.com/search?q=site:thaihandtool.com+"PB+Swiss"&safe=on&source=lnms&tbm=isch

The photos are sometimes HUGE and it can be helpful to see details. I guess some are uploaded the max resolution without resizing.

Also there are some unusual photos of tools and FOOD together --haha!

 

[Cypress]

Couple Wera sets from Black Friday. I absolutely love the ergos on these things and grip texture is just right imo.

 

[JBH]

i agree that the pb insider 3 feels great in hand and has nice bit storage. one thing i'd like to compare it to is the wiha 26-in-1 ultradriver. it's cool how many bits the ultradriver holds, but i doubt it feels as solid as the pb storage. have you tried it? curious of your overall impression if so.

Yes, I've tried them. The ones (full-sized and stubby) in the kitchen drawer get grabbed quite a bit for light tasks, such as opening the battery compartment on kids' toys. The handle is fine, though I've also never used it for long periods of time. For maximum bit variety in minimal space, there's nothing equal. I wish they had a ratcheting Ultradriver though. It's an odd hole in their lineup, and would be a more sensible addition than the lowest-common-denominator American-pattern tools Wiha USA has been adding. (Wiha mothership doesn't have a ratcheting Ultradriver either.)

also, which wurth driver do you mean?
this zebra one? https://www.wurthusa.com/Tools/Hand...6-Bit-Magazine-(Bits-Not-Included)/p/06136400

Yes. Ex-US Würth also offers a fantastic set anchored around this driver, with multiple blades including a telescoping magnetic pick-up tool. Würth USA should really bring that over. (They do show the pick up blade on their website, but it's perpetually sold out.)

View media item 91205
Here's a shot showing the LEDs.

View media item 97581
It's a really slick design. There are other Reverse Gear models with similar design - Bahco maybe?

it actually holds 1" bits fine. they don't get trapped, and they stick out enough to be perfectly usable imo. but for sure you won't hit recessed fasteners. need power bits for that.

After testing I confirm you are right and I was wrong. One-inch insert bits do fit securely in the Centrofix bit holder, as well as for that matter in the Ultradriver's bit holder. They are just more recessed.

is that hazet rolplast the advent one in that cool foam case (maybe EVA foam)?

Yes. It's cool but honestly I'm not going to use it. I just like other options (especially PB Swiss, Würth, and Felo) better. When I get around to it I'm going to list that (along with some other things) up for sale, because it was expensive enough to make selling worth my time. Also Hazet's bit-storing limited-edition Rolplast is IMO better than the variant in Gedore's standing catalog, because Gedore's is 10" long. So if someone wants a bit holding Rolplast, Hazet's 2020 Santastools model is the best of them.

https://www.kctoolco.com/gedore-216...ewdriver-with-magazine-handle-1-4-bit-holder/

regarding the rolgear, idk, i can't describe it as anything but smooth. smoother than the pb swiss mechanism, and i can't reproduce the stiction issue you describe. no matter how i play with it, i can't get any backdrag-like effect that gets anywhere close to the pbswiss backdrag.

Interesting. All I can say is my two PB Swiss ones actually work better turning fasteners in metal inserts (specific use case here was socket cap screws in T-nuts through 3/4" MDF) than Hazet or Gedore Rolplast. If anyone else has the old Wiha Topra pistol grip clutch-ratchet, Rolplast feels basically the same.

pretty annoying when you want to use it as a normal, non-ratcheting screwdriver. just eyeballing it, i wanna say there's about 30° of slop? is yours also like that?

Odd, both of mine (I bought the long-nose one as well sometime last year) have less slop when locked than the Rolplasts, or various Reverse Gear (Facom, Würth, Bahco) or Toptul drivers.

which felo? i think i missed that one.

Model 64539 "Ergonic K Handle Ratcheting Screwdriver." It's in this "haul" shot.

View media item 106441
It was just $24.31 from KC Tool when I ordered. I think they had it for as low as $16 or $17 (TOTD, maybe Black Friday?) at one point. However, KC Tool took town their page for it. I looked up my order, and it says "Unfortunately this product is no longer for sale so it cannot be reordered." It is still available from them in sets, such as this one:

https://www.kctoolco.com/felo-64515...9-72b9-47fe-bb30-8e6646c4a8d5&showHidden=true

I wonder if Felo decided to limit the driver to their kits. After all, the driver was IMO underpriced but the kits are also IMO a bit overpriced. Hopefully the US dollar won't be so devalued by the time shipping returns to regular order post-Covid that it will be economical to ship small quantities of hand tools from the EU again.

 

[superautobacs]

I wonder if Felo decided to limit the driver to their kits. After all, the driver was IMO underpriced but the kits are also IMO a bit overpriced. Hopefully the US dollar won't be so devalued by the time shipping returns to regular order post-Covid that it will be economical to ship small quantities of hand tools from the EU again.

The only thing Felo provides is the handle; the rest is imported from Taiwan. Or, the OEM was provided with Felo handles to have them installed onto their tool, then shipped back to Felo. Likely a limited production run of a few hundred? Individual handles have been sold out; the only remaining ones come only in kits/sets?

 

[macgee]

Look at this cute little old world item made in Ireland that just arrived in the mail from KC Tool.

It's a Heyco 1/4" T-handle marked Germany but KC Tool says it's made in Ireland. Has a beautiful high polish like a Snap-On but only $8, couldn't resist and needed one; I like it.
Only wished Heyco's green 1/4" spinner had a female socket in the handle for it; that would make for the perfect combo.

Not many tools that I've have seen have been coming out of Ireland, so thought it was appropriate to post in this thread. I'm glad to support the green island.

 

[JBH]

The only thing Felo provides is the handle; the rest is imported from Taiwan. Or, the OEM was provided with Felo handles to have them installed onto their tool, then shipped back to Felo.

I'll defer to you on that given your extensive knowledge of the East Asian hand tool OEM world. That would explain the price. Regardless, it's IMO one of the best ratcheting screwdrivers out there: great handle, low backdrag, additional features are actually useful. All it doesn't have is that hewn-from-solid feel of a PB Swiss.

Likely a limited production run of a few hundred? Individual handles have been sold out; the only remaining ones come only in kits/sets?

It is still available individually outside the US. I wonder if they were pulled for discrepant COO labeling here, based on your knowledge of the underlying components. If the kits have more German content maybe they can meet the FTC threshold for "made in Germany" while the driver by itself cannot.

 

[Jack84]

Got this today. Wera screwdrivers with wooden handles.




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[measuredtwice]

Got this today. Wera screwdrivers with wooden handles.




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Old logo on the box. My Wera with the Swiss VSM parallel tips had the same box. NOS.

 

[pizza]

i think the old wera branding was cooler.

before all this tool rebel cool guy nose ring tattoo stuff lol

 

[Dave455]

i think the old wera branding was cooler.

before all this tool rebel cool guy nose ring tattoo stuff lol

Couldn’t agree more.

The old acetate handles were much longer lasting too.

It’s a shame, because their screwdriver blades are great, they are very innovative, and their market presence is huge.

 

[Brunel]

Dave455, I am also in the UK and want to get some hard-handled screwdrivers. I'm thinking the CK ones, but do you know of any other options?

I agree that Wera are great and the quality of the blades is amazing, but the two-component handles aren't always the most suitable.

 

[Dave455]

Dave455, I am also in the UK and want to get some hard-handled screwdrivers. I'm thinking the CK ones, but do you know of any other options?

I agree that Wera are great and the quality of the blades is amazing, but the two-component handles aren't always the most suitable.

The CK are great! German made and reasonably priced.

In all honesty these tend to be my ‘go to’ drivers for a lot of tasks.

Below are mine, with the contents of my “road box”

Other similar options -

Facom, the ones with the orange acetate handles. These are very nice but I’m not sure they are any better than the CK.

Heyco. They offer some very nice drivers with a green acetate handle. I think they are also the makers of a lot of drivers for other firms. The Bernstein (electronics supplier) drivers are the same but in yellow.

Vessel. Japanese. As well as the classic “crystalline” driver, the 4500 “power grip” series all have hard acetate handles, colour coded by tip type. Only the slotted and Phillips are commonly available in the U.K.

All the above are transparent acetate handles (Cellulose Acetate) much like the CK. It’s a great material. A notch up would probably be PB Swiss with the classic or Multicraft handle. These are “CAB” so are a bit tougher, but can whiff a bit.

If you just wanted a “hard handle” and are not bothered about it being transparent, there’s loads of choice and it’s hard to pick some out.

The Felo 200 series have good quality blades and solid red handles. Often available on Amazon, but don’t overpay! Check the price history.

I also really like the Hazet Trinamic. These are made in Slovenia by Oplast but they are really good. They have hard black handles, the shape gives grip, but they wipe clean. I’d probably choose these for a greasy environment. You pay a bit for the name, but nothing like Snap On money.

If you want something with inch sized tips try the black handle Williams. Basically the same as the old Snap On but much cheaper. Again, from Amazon!

Let me know if you want me to post pics of any of these!

 

[barnonline]

Dave what do you mean? Of course we want pictures!

 

[arew1]

They don’t make them like they used to!

 

[Dave455]

Dave what do you mean? Of course we want pictures!

Here you go -

The Facom are decent. They have been making this pattern for decades and I have a few. I like the square handles, they’re great for general use and the blades seem to be good on my older drivers. They were made in France. I don’t know if they are now, but if not they appear to have done a good job. Sometimes the price of the Facom gets really loaded, so beware!

Edit - just checked a new one. They’re still made in France.

Heyco are good too. Maybe one of the best handle shapes. The blades seem to be as good as you would expect for German tools. Their distribution seems to be a bit “hit and miss” though. They sometimes turn up on U.K. Amazon really cheap.

Vessel. Hmm, I really like these. A very high quality driver. It’s the Megadora patterns that always seem to get publicity, but these 4500 series are just superb drivers. The slotted and Phillips come with red handles, Torx with yellow, and hex in lilac I think. You have to get a different (polypropylene) handle to get a Pozidriv though, which is the only downside for me.

 

[mr.lemons]

Are CK screwdrivers Athlet?

Talking of screwdrivers, I think Toptul may have updated their handles.

Old

New Pro-plus

 

[eas311]

I did a little workbench cleanup today and thought I'd share a picture of some of my favorite and most used hand tools.

From top to bottom:

(1) Felo Phillips #0 screwdriver. I also have some micro screwdrivers from Wiha and Wera, but I tend to go for the Felo more often. A great value brand with some nice innovation as well. (Made in Germany)

(2) PB Swiss 6.5mm SwissGrip slotted screwdriver. My first PB Swiss and was hooked, buying several more after this. By far the best feeling screwdriver from the many brands I've tried. (Made in Switzerland)

(3) Snap On ratcheting screwdriver. A gift from my father nearly 30 years ago. Used on countless projects and is still like new. (Made in USA)

(4) Engineer mini pliers. Very handy size, and I love the spring action. (Made in Japan)

(5) Knipex pliers wrench. Great design and quality is top notch. (Made in Germany)

(6) Koken 3/8" Z-series ratchet with quick spinner, 75mm extension (that also adapts down to 1/4"), and 10mm nut grip socket (Made in Japan)

 

[Dave455]

Are CK screwdrivers Athlet?

I don’t think so.

I’ve never seen the same style of handle as their “Classic” line offered with any other name on.

It’s possible they make them themselves, but I don’t know.

They’re good drivers.

I saw a YouTube review by some joker who didn’t like them, but he seemed to be an idiot who thought a Pozidriv was some sort of JIS thing!

The CK Pozidriv could be a little harder, but the slotted drivers are great! Good range of sizes too. Far more than some manufacturers.

 

[cheechi]

Got this today. Wera screwdrivers with wooden handles.

I picked up recently Felo 33595198 07157 22155 well as a wood handled Vessel 3006CS set recently and they arrived within a few days of each other. I'd say I have about equal time using each (not a whole lot but enough to tell how well i like them) and they are nice but not my favourite by any means. working primarily with P2, PC case & drive screws so (ideally at least) low torque stuff. The Felos are nice, once already I have needed to grab the Vessel as both its got a longer shaft and it's JIS profile have been better suited. Only real complaint actually is the shafts could be longer on the Felo as they are 'only' standard length drivers relative for each respective size.

interested in your thoughts on the Wera, I would have no issue recommending either the Felo or Vessel to anyone who is good with the above caveats.

 

[Jack84]

I’ve used the ph2 once. Since this is NOS I don’t think a comparison is fair.
They’re pretty much the same as my wooden Heyco, Belzer and Felo. Have some wooden Gedore too, without out the black tip.


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[mr.lemons]

PB driver sets in tools rolls.

I don’t think so.

I’ve never seen the same style of handle as their “Classic” line offered with any other name on.

It’s possible they make them themselves, but I don’t know.

It is a distinctive handle shape, but I was under the impression from comments on here, that CK is an importer only. Based in Wales. Don't know this for sure though. Maybe they have drivers made to their own design.

 

[Dave455]

It is a distinctive handle shape, but I was under the impression from comments on here, that CK is an importer only. Based in Wales. Don't know this for sure though. Maybe they have drivers made to their own design.

Yes, that could be, but if so they obviously have many of their tools made specifically for them, rather than doing what most importers do and just rebranding any old tat.

I’ve used their “classic” screwdrivers for years - probably about 35 years in fact. The patterns have remained unchanged, the quality is still as good as it was, and they are German made.

They have a cheaper (Avit?) line that seem to be generic cheap shite, but the CK branded stuff is generally o.k.

 

[dutchgray]

I know a couple electricians who use CK VDE screwdrivers and like them, so they must be ok since electricians are one trade where hand screwdriver use is still common, I as a general builder type rarely do anything by hand, really only hardware stuff you can see. I do more hand work in the workshop as a hobby than at work.
I have a couple CK screwdrivers and a pair of side cutters that are good and I regularly use.

 

[mr.lemons]

We've had CK drivers at work. Was not really a fan I'm afraid. We had the soft grip which I think were a weird oval shape. Will try and find some and give them another try.

 

[eas311]

Portasol butane torch, made in Ireland. Just arrived today, so I have yet to use it. A little pricey for what it is (~ $40 USD).

Very quick shipping from Tooltopia. Just 2 days to arrive.

 

[Nigelhirst]

CK is Carl Kammerling. It claims to be a 100 year old German manufacturer....
I’m not sure why it is based in Wales. According to the website the factory was destroyed in the war, then became part of the Soviet bloc, and relocated to Wales in 1954. Maybe it just rebrands generic German Tools... but they have been doing it for an awful long time!
Nigel

 

[measuredtwice]

Saw commercials for Wiha's multi-bit drivers when watching clips of the news. I've seen lots of ads for Wiha but these were the first Wiha video commercials that I've seen.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I found this Bahco double-ender adjustable/alligator wrench this morning with a rather unfortunate 90* angle bend in it. Forged-in markings are V-STEEL, 8", 31, MADE IN SWEDEN on one side, and AB BAHCO STOCKHOLM on the other, with a smaller VOLVO near the thumbscrew. Does anyone know when it was made? Also, is my deduction that it was in a Volvo car kit correct?

 

[node105]

Hazet 2771 MB 110 589 01 01 00 Valve Adjustment spanner

NOS Hazet valve adjustment spanner for M10... motiors for my W123 arrived a couple of days ago

Hazet 2771
MB 110 589 01 01 00

17mm open end both ends, offset on one end
The adjustment lock nuts can bind locked, and some pressure can be required to budge them; hence the thickness of the tynes. At times, as I have rad, it may be necessary in order to avoid round them off, to resort to removing the rocker arm, and loosen them with a 6point socket.

Quite a nice plating finish on this one too (last pic). Much better than the 100 or so other Hazet that I have bought in recent years.

 

[Kandyman]

I recently found a few heads and an extension of King Roy.But what is interesting is that part of them with a blue stripe and part without any stripes but with a stamped inscription Made in Germany. Who can say which of them are older? The quality of them is very good and you can see that they have worked a lot.

 

[Jack84]

I found this Bahco double-ender adjustable/alligator wrench this morning with a rather unfortunate 90* angle bend in it. Forged-in markings are V-STEEL, 8", 31, MADE IN SWEDEN on one side, and AB BAHCO STOCKHOLM on the other, with a smaller VOLVO near the thumbscrew. Does anyone know when it was made? Also, is my deduction that it was in a Volvo car kit correct?

They are indeed part of a tool kit.
First one I’ve seen with the marking on the head. I’ve got one with Volvo drop forged in the handle and had one with Volvo literally stamped in.
Don’t know the age though.


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[Monte]

Mato grease gun

 

[Private Lugnutz]

They are indeed part of a tool kit.
First one I’ve seen with the marking on the head. I’ve got one with Volvo drop forged in the handle and had one with Volvo literally stamped in.
Don’t know the age though.

Thanks, Jack. Attached is a better photo of that forged-in VOLVO marking. I'd be reluctantly inclined to guess prewar on the age, because of the alligator wrench on the opposite end, which was passe and obsolete in the US by the late 30's, but there are tool designs that still thrive to this day in Europe (e.g., cles a pipes, self-adjusting crescent type wrenches, etc) that are only in antique or early vintage form in the US, so I could be wrong on that.

 

[Jack84]

Thanks, Jack. Attached is a better photo of that forged-in VOLVO marking. I'd be reluctantly inclined to guess prewar on the age, because of the alligator wrench on the opposite end, which was passe and obsolete in the US by the late 30's, but there are tool designs that still thrive to this day in Europe (e.g., cles a pipes, self-adjusting crescent type wrenches, etc) that are only in antique or early vintage form in the US, so I could be wrong on that.

I think it’s from the seventies or sixties.
From what I know prior to the sixties Bahco was written out, B A Hjorth co. But I’m not an expert to give you the exact year, I’m sure some here can.

Bahco still makes this model, with the alligator.


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[Jack84]

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[TjoFrasse]

I found this Bahco double-ender adjustable/alligator wrench this morning with a rather unfortunate 90* angle bend in it. Forged-in markings are V-STEEL, 8", 31, MADE IN SWEDEN on one side, and AB BAHCO STOCKHOLM on the other, with a smaller VOLVO near the thumbscrew. Does anyone know when it was made? Also, is my deduction that it was in a Volvo car kit correct?

Jack84 has some good info, I just thought I would add some more to it.

https://skiftnyckeln.blogspot.com/p/hajnycklar_31.html talks about the VOLVO ones being from the 60s, it seems that the type he calls XVII matches yours. I think that could be correct, and VOLVO used the 11 model before switching to the 31 model.

Your wrench was probably in a Amazon tool kit when sold, but could also be from a P1800 or a PV444. With it was probably two yellow acetate screwdrivers, a simple combination pliers, DIN895 wrenches and some more stuff. I'm no expert on the subject so might be wrong but this it my understanding of the Volvo tool kits.

Here's an example of a kit https://www.tradera.com/item/302212...passande-volvo-140-pv-duett-amazon-p1800-mfl- that is newer, with a newer model of the 31 and a new stamping. It could also be that this is from the 60's, and yours is then from the 50s. I don't know, but I do think if it was earlier it should have the large H in Bahco or a B.A Hjorth&Co marking.

 

[Kandyman]

Recently, I got into the hands of several heads of the Welton manufacturer. The quality is very good at least a little touched by corrosion. But that's why there is no such product on the manufacturer's website, although the logo itself completely coincides. Someone can suggest something about this? The company does not release such tools already? Photo attached.