Tools from the old world

[Hardermach]

I’ve been very disappointed by a lot of Gedore stuff I’ve bought.

Got some Whitworth ring spanners (box end wrenches) a while back and they were very poor. Also got some 1/4 drive bits, which were also poor - didn’t fit together well and felt flimsy.

I think they do bigger tools well, and some of their lines are very good (Thinking of their No.7 combination wrenches, especially the long ones) but you do have to be careful.

Sometimes it depends on what kind of tool you buy. The old versions are sometimes better than the replacement new tool. I experience this with actually all brands (Facom, Hazet, Stahlwille). In general, I don't buy Gedore for its perfect fit, but because after 50 years I can still rely on an old tool and the design has often remained virtually unchanged. Most steel items have not become more beautiful due to the forging process. However, very strong and therefore perhaps more useful for industrial applications.

 

[Brunel]

I think it depends what field you work in.

If you are in aerospace, or manufacturing, or any sort of industry, you generally get overwhelmed with choices.

Unfortunately though, most tool purchasing is done online, probably by account customers. What we have lost are the “bricks and mortar” tool shops. Those that we do have tend to be targeted by certain distributors, which is why we tend to see certain makes “on the shelf” and everything else has to be ordered.

You’re right though, in my local (very small) town I will find no Stahlwille, Hazet or King ****, but I will find Wiha, Knipex, and Wera. At the last count I could get Wera from 5 different places inside 200 yards!

The only solution is to be educated buyers and order what we want!

Yes, I forgot to mention aerospace, where I think Stahlwille in particular has a degree of popularity in the UK, probably because European tools are preferred to American ones (ie Snap-On). Not sure about manufacturing or other industry, though - the last factory I visited didn't have anything more exotic than Wera. High-end industrial / manufacturing users may be selective about the tools they use, but I reckon everyone else isn't really that bothered.

But it is the case that online availability of some german brands is also very limited... how many online suppliers do Stahlwille, Gedore, or Hazet, compared to Knipex, Wera, and Wiha?

 

[Dave455]

Yes, I forgot to mention aerospace, where I think Stahlwille in particular has a degree of popularity in the UK, probably because European tools are preferred to American ones (ie Snap-On). Not sure about manufacturing or other industry, though - the last factory I visited didn't have anything more exotic than Wera. High-end industrial / manufacturing users may be selective about the tools they use, but I reckon everyone else isn't really that bothered.

But it is the case that online availability of some german brands is also very limited... how many online suppliers do Stahlwille, Gedore, or Hazet, compared to Knipex, Wera, and Wiha?

Favoured tools in the aerospace world tend to vary depending on which area you work in.

In the world of commercial aircraft (which is my world) I would say that Snap On outnumbers everything else by a huge margin. Probably 70% is Snap On, 30% everything else combined.

Part of this is due to the strict specs. Snap On are one of the few makers where all of their tools meet the specs. Makers such as Stahlwille do offer aerospace spec tools, but they are a different range, and the prices are higher, so there are not really the savings to be made.

The guys tend to own their own tools too, so there’s every incentive to buy stuff that will last a career.

In some areas, tools are provided by the company. If that’s the case, you tend to find many different makes, but the decision is often based on who offers the best deal. Stahlwille have pursued this market quite aggressively in recent years, but I would still say that American tools dominate.

I once saw round a satellite factory, and that was a different world again. All the assembly was taking place in sealed areas and all the tools were obviously provided by the company. Every bolt and screw was torqued to spec, and the torque wrench was connected wirelessly to the quality control system. I suspect that use of Grandfathers King **** adjustable was frowned upon…

 

[mr.lemons]

Not sure if these are new, or if I just haven't noticed them before. Pliers wrench from NWS.

 

[mr.lemons]

Hultafors 25mm chisel.

Probably not the best chisel, but I'm a sucker for the Rambo sheath. Practical and stylish. No COO.

 

[Hardermach]

Some nearly perfect old screwdrivers and pliers i got and cleaned today. SOme Belzer, Gedore PB Swiss, Hazet, Beta and Knipex.

 

[Yannick]

Old 50s rare Beta socket set found on a Dutch second-hand site.






The Plastic inlay is in a good condition.


Very nice ratchet


Nice Broaching and centering of the old Beta 920 Sockets


The sockets and tools are not stamped with an COO of Italy
The old sockets of Beta 920 does not have the Glossy chrome finish of this days. It has a slightly rough lathe finish but great.





Nice acetate handle with the old Beta logo

 

[four.cycle]

^ excellent find.

 

[Yannick]

Old Vintage Beta 60s-70s? Socketsets also found on a Dutch second-hand site.
The exact age is unknown. The contemporary sockets do not have a stamp of Italy, have a logo with wrench and is stored in plastic case. The timeline of logo's says it is 1960 - to 1979:





The 3/8 Vintage Beta socketset with socket of 8 to 22
All of those Beta tools have a nice glossy finish of chrome


Robust nylon handle and a COO stamp of Italy.


COO stamp of Italy and nice finish




All of those 3/8 sockets have a nice centered broaching/forging.


The 1/2 Vintage Beta socketset with socket of 10 to 32
All of those Beta tools have a nice glossy finish of chrome also the 3/8 set


All of those tools in the 1/2 set is stamped with Italy except the Rahsol


The BIG one


Also a nice centered broaching/forging



Beta makes very great tools in history and this days. For European tools makes Beta better sockets then GEDORE and it's an equal with Snap-on.

 

[Pexto]

Those Beta sets look superb. Thank you for taking all those nice pictures!

 

[Spongebob89]

New Year - New Tools... I wish to all of you all the best!!!
(43167) Fine screwdriver set PicoFinish® slimVario® electric




(05020241001) 6003 Joker 8 Imperial Set 1 ring spanner set, Imperial

 

[four.cycle]

Monte-
Link for LIST of mechanics hand tool manufacturers can be downloaded in *.txt format HERE
U.S. manufacturers and brands are at the top end of the list. Manufactures and brands outside the U.S. are listed below in alphabetical order by country name.
Please take a look when you have time.
Thanks very much for your help.
BK

 

[Hardermach]

Old Vintage Beta 60s-70s? Socketsets also found on a Dutch second-hand site.
The exact age is unknown. The contemporary sockets do not have a stamp of Italy, have a logo with wrench and is stored in plastic case. The timeline of logo's says it is 1960 - to 1979:





The 3/8 Vintage Beta socketset with socket of 8 to 22
All of those Beta tools have a nice glossy finish of chrome


Robust nylon handle and a COO stamp of Italy.


COO stamp of Italy and nice finish




All of those 3/8 sockets have a nice centered broaching/forging.


The 1/2 Vintage Beta socketset with socket of 10 to 32
All of those Beta tools have a nice glossy finish of chrome also the 3/8 set


All of those tools in the 1/2 set is stamped with Italy except the Rahsol


The BIG one


Also a nice centered broaching/forging



Beta makes very great tools in history and this days. For European tools makes Beta better sockets then GEDORE and it's an equal with Snap-on.

I also saw this set on marktplaats. It's been on for quite a while. why do you like this one better than gedore. I find the ratchet with the toggle switch worthless. Even when it's new out of the box. The chrome finish might be nicer, but I bet it's not stronger than Gedore. It's like comparing Italian cars to German cars. The history days are better then the present days of Beta.

 

[wreckdiver1321]

Got my first Wiha tools for Christmas, a set of metric t-handle allens. Really nicely made. Simple design but well executed. Excited to get them working.

 

[Yannick]

I have Gedore tool at work an ik dont’t like it. The fit is not great and lots of sharp chrome flakes. Beta and stahlwille are much better.
The Beta ratchets with slider switch works very great, there is never a case of switching during work.

I have new and old Beta tools and both are great. there are brands where that is be different.

 

[Matt XYZ]

Not sure if these are new, or if I just haven't noticed them before. Pliers wrench from NWS.

I will definitely need to check those out as I like NWS a lot. I have a pair on 5" Knipex and got to check it out in a German big box store before purchasing. I'll have to make a trip to the local private tool store that carries NWS, but Covid is making everything a bit more challenging at the moment in my area.

Has anyone tried these?

 

[Olafur]

Old Vintage Beta 60s-70s? Socketsets also found on a Dutch second-hand site.
The exact age is unknown. The contemporary sockets do not have a stamp of Italy, have a logo with wrench and is stored in plastic case. The timeline of logo's says it is 1960 - to 1979:

These sets were sold over here as late as 1990-2000!?
My friend has some of the same tools - his shop was established in 1998.

 

[mr.lemons]

Lindström flush cutters.



These are sold under the Bahco brand name on Amazon. Handle covers are a bit rough.










Jaws are asymmetrical. Not sure if this is part of the design.



Made in Spain. Part of the Snap on group.

 

[Dave455]

Lindström flush cutters.



These are sold under the Bahco brand name on Amazon. Handle covers are a bit rough.










Jaws are asymmetrical. Not sure if this is part of the design.



Made in Spain. Part of the Snap on group.

The old Swedish Lindstrom were superb tools. I’m fortunate to have a couple of pairs. They were never cheap.

The Bahco / new Lindstrom are very “average” in my opinion.

I’ve been very happy with the Schmitz pliers I bought following a recommendation from one of the members here. Quality is very close to the old Lindstrom and prices are very fair.

 

[mr.lemons]

Bosch 12 driver. (not impact)



Compared to older model (there is also a model in-between these two).



New is stumpier.
Bit holder now has a push collar, rather than a pull collar. The bit holder holds bits with less play than the older model. Still need to move the collar to insert a bit.
New has a more sensitive trigger, so I find it hard to modulate the speed compared to the old one. This may be down to muscle memory, as I use the old model every day.
Not sure about torque or speed as I use them for more delicate tasks (computers).

Same coo as previous.

 

[Hardermach]

Lindström flush cutters.



These are sold under the Bahco brand name on Amazon. Handle covers are a bit rough.










Jaws are asymmetrical. Not sure if this is part of the design.



Made in Spain. Part of the Snap on group.

What dit go wrong with those rough handles. I would send it back, if i where you. Nevermind, that are some nice pliers. Love tot have a few of them in the futures.

 

[mr.lemons]

The old Swedish Lindstrom were superb tools. I’m fortunate to have a couple of pairs. They were never cheap.

The Bahco / new Lindstrom are very “average” in my opinion.

I’ve been very happy with the Schmitz pliers I bought following a recommendation from one of the members here. Quality is very close to the old Lindstrom and prices are very fair.

What dit go wrong with those rough handles. I would send it back, if i where you. Nevermind, that are some nice pliers. Love tot have a few of them in the futures.

Definitely disappointed, as I was expecting great things due to their reputation. The packaging was sealed and undamaged, so they were packed the way they are. Not sure if it's normal or not. To be fair, they may function and wear well. I don't generally return tools for cosmetic issues, but these have already gone back.

 

[mr.lemons]

Facom 2mm punch.



Wanted to try one of these comfort grip type punches, as standard punches are a bit too small to grip sometimes. Not for hitting with a hammer, but for when pushing out pins on door cards (Volvo).



Definitely more to hold onto compared to normal punches. The grip is soft/squishy. The pin part is worrying flexible. I guess that's the price for the extra length.



Strange bit of metal on the tip.



Listed as made in France.

 

[four.cycle]

^ so..... you weren't sold on "Spring Tools" version of a pin punch? or.... ??

 

[four.cycle]

This link was recently passed on to me as an information source on vintage German tools:

Das Echo

www.google.com

 

[four.cycle]

1974 Bedford Tool catalog now available for download at International Tool Catalog Library!

1953 King **** tools catalog now available for download at International Tool Catalog Library!

thanks Mark!

 

[eas311]

I did a little tool organizing this past week and made this little kit for my range bag. Nice mix of COO (Germany, Switzerland, Czech Republic, and the US. No COO markings on the Glock takedown tool).

 

[CGarage]

I did a little tool organizing this past week and made this little kit for my range bag. Nice mix of COO (Germany, Switzerland, Czech Republic, and the US. No COO markings on the Glock takedown tool).

I much prefer this disassembly tool for Glock.

ULTIMATE ARMORER'S TOOL for GLOCK®

ULTIMATE ARMORER'S TOOL for GLOCK® https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/gun-tools/handgun-tools/ultimate-armorers-tool-for-glock~/

www.brownells.com

 

[CGarage]

Facom 2mm punch.



Wanted to try one of these comfort grip type punches, as standard punches are a bit too small to grip sometimes. Not for hitting with a hammer, but for when pushing out pins on door cards (Volvo).



Definitely more to hold onto compared to normal punches. The grip is soft/squishy. The pin part is worrying flexible. I guess that's the price for the extra length.



Strange bit of metal on the tip.



Listed as made in France.

I have this set. Mine did not have metal flashing on the tips as yours does.....perhaps a QC issue? They have been very nice to have. I also have a sacrificial set made in China I bought off of Amazon (I have not broken any) that I use for gunsmithing tasks. I also have some from Grace USA and PB Swiss. PB Swiss does make a long version and they are very nice.

 

[glenng]

Bosch 12 driver. (not impact)



Compared to older model (there is also a model in-between these two).



New is stumpier.
Bit holder now has a push collar, rather than a pull collar. The bit holder holds bits with less play than the older model. Still need to move the collar to insert a bit.
New has a more sensitive trigger, so I find it hard to modulate the speed compared to the old one. This may be down to muscle memory, as I use the old model every day.
Not sure about torque or speed as I use them for more delicate tasks (computers).

Same coo as previous.

Hi mr.lemons,

I noticed you mentioned they changed the collet. So does this hold power bits good now? Like as good as say a normal impact driver would? I have the old PS-21 and it was made more for insert bits. Power bits worked, they just had a ton of wobble. And do insert bits still work or do you need a bit holder for them?

I just did a quick google, and it seems like in the USA we have the GSR12V-300HXB22. It that the same equivalent to your model, or is your model even newer?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08HR2V5PN/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Many thanks!

 

[nadogail]

I think all tool manufacturers watch what their competition builds and attempt to improve on those designs.
I once read some Gedore literature and found they claim to be the largest manufacturer of wrenches in the world. I will bet that they make “private label “ stuff as well as their branded products. I have worked with Gedore wrenches and they are a great choice over no tools at all.

 

[mr.lemons]

^ so..... you weren't sold on "Spring Tools" version of a pin punch? or.... ??

Different uses. Spring tools is a centre punch for marking or making a small hole prior to drilling. Facom punch has a flat tip for pushing out pins.

I have this set. Mine did not have metal flashing on the tips as yours does.....perhaps a QC issue? They have been very nice to have. I also have a sacrificial set made in China I bought off of Amazon (I have not broken any) that I use for gunsmithing tasks. I also have some from Grace USA and PB Swiss. PB Swiss does make a long version and they are very nice.

Yes, I think a small mistake in production. Filed right off, so no big deal. I would like to try one of the soft handle PB punches. I'm sure they are very nice.

Hi mr.lemons,

I noticed you mentioned they changed the collet. So does this hold power bits good now? Like as good as say a normal impact driver would? I have the old PS-21 and it was made more for insert bits. Power bits worked, they just had a ton of wobble. And do insert bits still work or do you need a bit holder for them?

I just did a quick google, and it seems like in the USA we have the GSR12V-300HXB22. It that the same equivalent to your model, or is your model even newer?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08HR2V5PN/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Many thanks!

The newer collet is an improvement. There is now very little in/out play, but still some wobble. I haven't tried non-power bits, and sent the driver back, sorry.

I think the driver in your link is the same. Been available for a year or so.

 

[mr.lemons]

Ebay gamble (£8). Facom ratchet. Sold as faulty. 'feels very loose and slips when under pressure'





Hopefully just needs the spring adjusting. Maybe an older model, as it has a slotted screw rather than a torx.

 

[CGarage]

Ebay gamble (£8). Facom ratchet. Sold as faulty. 'feels very loose and slips when under pressure'





Hopefully just needs the spring adjusting. Maybe an older model, as it has a slotted screw rather than a torx.

I have never seen this one before. Part number and application?

 

[designer485]

Lindström flush cutters.



These are sold under the Bahco brand name on Amazon. Handle covers are a bit rough.










Jaws are asymmetrical. Not sure if this is part of the design.



Made in Spain. Part of the Snap on group.

Bummer the quality is not what it was when these were made in Sweden, although I do like my made in Spain Bahco pliers. If these were from Amazon, they may have been seconds that got out (and should not have...)

Here is my pair that were made in Sweden (probably 15-20 years old).

 

[glenng]

Different uses. Spring tools is a centre punch for marking or making a small hole prior to drilling. Facom punch has a flat tip for pushing out pins.


Yes, I think a small mistake in production. Filed right off, so no big deal. I would like to try one of the soft handle PB punches. I'm sure they are very nice.


The newer collet is an improvement. There is now very little in/out play, but still some wobble. I haven't tried non-power bits, and sent the driver back, sorry.

I think the driver in your link is the same. Been available for a year or so.

Oh you didn't like it? Not worth the upgrade?

Thanks for letting me know mr.lemons, I appreciate it.

 

[mr.lemons]

I have never seen this one before. Part number and application?

Converts a breaker bar (or beam torque wrench) into a ratchet.
Facom s.156

Edit or a t-bar. Pic from web.

 

[mr.lemons]

Oh you didn't like it? Not worth the upgrade?

Thanks for letting me know mr.lemons, I appreciate it.

I'm sure it's an upgrade in speed/torque/size (everything), but I'm too used to the old version to accept the change. Also, I have wallet shock from Christmas, so immediately regretted spending the money.

 

[glenng]

I'm sure it's an upgrade in speed/torque/size (everything), but I'm too used to the old version to accept the change. Also, I have wallet shock from Christmas, so immediately regretted spending the money.

Right on, I hear you. The old one is still working very well for me, too.

Thanks for getting back to me!

 

[four.cycle]

RE:

you weren't sold on "Spring Tools" version of a pin punch? or.... ??

Different uses. Spring Tools is a centre punch for marking or making a small hole prior to drilling. Facom punch has a flat tip for pushing out pins.

We're well off the "old world" path here, but the reason I asked was because Spring Tools (Noxon) also makes a spring-loaded pin punch, using the same principle as the center punch.
I was trying to find some information about Spring Tools but didn't get the response I had hoped for from the company, so I was fishing for more information here, as there isn't much information about the company or their products available online other than their own promotional material.
Obviously they hit on an idea that works, based on the huge number of Asian-made knock-offs one can find listed on ebay and Amazon.

Noxon / Noxon, Inc. DBA Spring Tools, 2921 No. University, Spokane, WA 99206 (formerly Thun Enterprises Inc. ?) / http://springtools.shptron.com/ / est. 1993 / patent (?) / TM 86209086 Feb 11 2021 / center punches, nail sets / https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/mar/02/inventor-emory-clarks-swring-finds-therapeutic-app/ /

If you still have the package that unit came in, see if you can find a patent number on it. I hit a wall trying to ferret out the patent information on that device.