Tundra bumper start

[koditten]

Wanted something a bit more durable than what came from the factory. This is what I have so far.

 

[kartracer55]

Look's good!

But I think what you are doing is pretty stupid. Bumpers are designed for safety in an accident, not just for you but forever you hit. You might be opening yourself up to some nasty lawsuits.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

Bumper is off to a good start. What size plate are you using?

 

[lotsoftools]

Looks good. Don't worry about what kartracer said, it will be fine.

 

[koditten]

I'm not worried about it, but appreciate it.

I decided to go with 10 gauge, actually a bit thinner than what the aftermarket units are using. Basicly, I'm just trying to minimize any deer colision damages. Around here it is not uncommon to have 3 encounters a year. And I don't mean in a good way.

I have other pics but the website keeps telling me to choose a file and upload fail. Guess you have to be happy with what I submitted previously.

 

[jorhay]

Looks like a nice start

 

[GirlnAgarage]

I'm not worried about it, but appreciate it.

I decided to go with 10 gauge, actually a bit thinner than what the aftermarket units are using. Basicly, I'm just trying to minimize any deer colision damages. Around here it is not uncommon to have 3 encounters a year. And I don't mean in a good way.

I have other pics but the website keeps telling me to choose a file and upload fail. Guess you have to be happy with what I submitted previously.

Yep, deer can bang things up pretty good. Will you be adding a gill guard of any kind? I'm thinking about the body of a deer being tall enough to knock out things above the protected area of the bumper.

Looking forward to the rest

 

[Interex]

Looking forward to seeing the final product. I was thinking of going with an ARB on my '07 Tundra d-cab.

 

[koditten]

I looked at all the common aftermarket bumpers that I could find out there on the "net". I took a bit from all of them and incorperated what I think I am going to like. The one thing that really bothered me was they all were over a grand for prices. I think I might have 250 in steel. Of course my labor is free. I have about 6 hours into what you see here

I still have to think about the bar across the top, havn't totally made up my mind. In most cases around here, we know that the deer are in the area. We are already going slow, we just don't want to take out the radiator.

I will need to cut some slots in the middle yet. the toyota radiator actually extends to the bottom of the bumper. To get full cooling I will have to remove some iron.

I wish I knew what was going on with posting of pictures. I have tried for the last 2 day on different machines and am having no luck. If anyone has and clues, bring them on.

Thank you for the compliments

Kirk

 

[IndyGarage]

Don't write off what Kartracer says so quickly. He's 100% right.

When you replace the front bumper of a vehicle, or even add a brush guard, you are interfering with carefully engineered safety systems - which you paid a bunch of money for, and might have to save yours or your passengers lives someday.

Do you know the difference between a crash implulse of a 10 mph parking lot fender bender and a 30mph head on looks like? I bet you could spot the difference if I showed them to you. However I bet you couldn't see a bit of difference if I showed you the first 15 milliseconds - which is when the computer needs to decide to blow the airbags or not.


When you alter the front of the vehicle, you alter that first 15 milliseconds significantly.

Your choice, of course, but you ought to at least be aware of the chance you are taking.

 

[koditten]

Yep. those are all important things to take into account. Thats why I have insurance. You, or I can not control all aspects of our entire lives.

If I worried about every bit of risk in my life, I could never even get out of bed. Please don't make this an argument. I acknowledged you and kartracer.

Besides that, what do I need to make it look better. Thats the only reason I posted the picks.

Thanks

Kirk

 

[IndyGarage]

Please take this as educated advice - not arguing. You have made your choice and it is yours to make - others looking at this thread may not understand the facts.

It looked like lotsoftools was blowing this off as insignificant, which it is not.

Traffic deaths in the United States have dropped in half since airbags were implemented in vehicles starting in the early 90's. While the number of drivers, vehicles, miles and speed limits have all gone up. The fact is they work - and yes, I know there are other factors in that figure too - but the death rate didn't go down until airbags were common.

By altering your vehicle you may be doubling or tripling your chance of dying in an accident. Now tripling a small chance makes it still small - but not zero.

This is one aspect of your life that you do have a choice over - I agree there are many you don't.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

I've got a Frontier Gear full replacement on my truck.

Features I like:

- fog light holes - I was able to keep my stock fog/driving lights. I use them all the time.

- gap for airflow - with an intercooler, radiator, ****** cooler and condensor, front incoming airflow is a must. The bumper is gapped enough for airflow at the bottom of the hood. The gap between the bumper and the crossbar on the grill guard matches up to that. I do have a little vertical adjustment of the bumper due to the bumper bracket between the frame and the bumper.

- cut out for tow hooks - let me keep my stock tow hooks. This slot also provides a foot hold for climbing up onto the front of the truck. It's tall, I'm short. The bumper adds a foot of horizontal reach. I climb up and sit on the grill guard while doing any maintenance.

 

[koditten]

I just looked up you Fronteer gear bumper. Holy **** that is too cool. I was close to using treadplate, but opted for the smooth look. I am now starting to maybe regret my descision.

GiaG, Do you have a Tundra? I havn't decided if I want yellow fog lights as well as the driving lights. The only time I can ever remember using the yellow fog lights was during a mini blizzard and that was years ago.

I need to get these next decisions made before I start cutting out holes for lights.

I do like the idea of a bar to mount some serious off road lights. Were I routinly travel to and from work, I could actually use them because there is no one else on the road.

Edit: You mention an intercooler, must run a diesel. I'm pretty sure Toyota doesn't have one for the Tundra yet

 

[GirlnAgarage]

No, Dodge Cummins. Giving you my likes and dislikes on the bumper itself.

My fogs are clears so I guess they're considered more like driving lights. They do great at lighting up the corner angles off the front of the truck. I like the more light the better when driving, especially rural at night. I hardly use high beams because I prefer the light pattern of lows + fogs.


Maybe tonight I'll get some pictures of the light patterns after dark.

 

[toolmaker1]

Nice looking bumper, the deer here are terrible as well. On the subject of airbags, are they normally triggered by an accelerometer or by actual force on a mechanical plunger? I can see the point if it is the latter but if it is triggered by an accelerometer I can't see how the bumper would affect it at all? Also with the multitudes of aftermarket bumpers of this style out there I would think if it was a major concern that all the sue happy lawyers would have litigated them out of existence by now

 

[koditten]

I never took a sensor apart. They seem to be sealed units. I do know that all the air bag sensors for the front are located on the core support, not the bumper it's self. I have removed the ECM for the air bags, that is located under the dash. I am sure there must be accelorometer incorperated with it. It has to do the job to detect side impacts as well. Thankfully that tested as good. That part alone was around 800 bucks.

The vehicle was previously in a wreck, because of that fact, I got it cheap. Of course when you buy a wrecked vehicle, you can never really trust that all the safety gear will work. And you know there is no way to test it without wrecking the vehicle again

I just wear my seatbelt and hope for the best, just like any normal person would.

Thanks for the encouraging words. Hopefully this pic posting thing gets resolved and I can have some progress pics later this weekend.

Kirk

 

[GirlnAgarage]

I never took a sensor apart. They seem to be sealed units. I do know that all the air bag sensors for the front are located on the core support, not the bumper it's self. I have removed the ECM for the air bags, that is located under the dash. I am sure there must be accelorometer incorperated with it. It has to do the job to detect side impacts as well. Thankfully that tested as good. That part alone was around 800 bucks.

The vehicle was previously in a wreck, because of that fact, I got it cheap. Of course when you buy a wrecked vehicle, you can never really trust that all the safety gear will work. And you know there is no way to test it without wrecking the vehicle again

I just wear my seatbelt and hope for the best, just like any normal person would.

Thanks for the encouraging words. Hopefully this pic posting thing gets resolved and I can have some progress pics later this weekend.

Kirk

Go to the 'Site Suggestions' subforum and there should be a sticky about how to post pics. That's probably better than me not explaining it very clear

 

[BD1]

Please take this as educated advice - not arguing. You have made your choice and it is yours to make - others looking at this thread may not understand the facts.

It looked like lotsoftools was blowing this off as insignificant, which it is not.

Traffic deaths in the United States have dropped in half since airbags were implemented in vehicles starting in the early 90's. While the number of drivers, vehicles, miles and speed limits have all gone up. The fact is they work - and yes, I know there are other factors in that figure too - but the death rate didn't go down until airbags were common.

By altering your vehicle you may be doubling or tripling your chance of dying in an accident. Now tripling a small chance makes it still small - but not zero.

This is one aspect of your life that you do have a choice over - I agree there are many you don't.

Hi, good valid points, BUT, what do the companies do that sell after market bumpers etc ?? Won't they be liable too then ??? I do not remember seeing anything written about bumper modification law suits anywhere. Tough call.

 

[koditten]

Go to the 'Site Suggestions' subforum and there should be a sticky about how to post pics. That's probably better than me not explaining it very clear

Just got done spending some time reviewing, no luck. How did I get the initial picture up, but nothing afterwards?

I was able to go to another forum and had zero issue with posting several pictures of the same bumper.

As for after market bumpers, I was thinking that as well. They are out there and people are buying them. I see no reason why I can't build my own.

Thanks

Kirk

 

[zer01]

Just keep posting about the progress. No need to worry about people wandering off topic, happens all the time. Could reduce safety, could increase safety, or could have no effect what so ever. Either way it is your truck, good luck on the build.

I like the start, hopefully you will get the picture thing figured out. Looking forward to the progression of your project.

 

[koditten]

If You want to look at some more pics, head over to "tundratalk.net. Same pictures. I got the same name as well.

thanks

Kirk

 

[slacker garage shop]

Bumper looks great. These guys probably drive a Prius. Chop it,mod it and drive it and if a Prius gets in your way push it!

 

[GarageEnvy]

I don' know enough about airbags to say whether it's a good idea or not. Besides if you're just looking for aesthetic ideas, here's my $.02.

To my eye it looks a little bulky in the front and possibly adding other elements or recessing lights would take away from the mass. I suspect you probably are planning something for the headlight area since it looks a little unfinished in that area. Also, if you planned on painting it to match, that would probably make a huge difference as well.

Before this sounds too critical or nit-picky, it's a heck of a lot better than I could do and I suspect with a paint job, most people would think it was a professional bumper.

 

[lotsoftools]

Can you put some kind of filler plate below the headlights? I think that would give it a more finished look there.

 

[Zick]

Just got done spending some time reviewing, no luck. How did I get the initial picture up, but nothing afterwards?

I was able to go to another forum and had zero issue with posting several pictures of the same bumper.

As for after market bumpers, I was thinking that as well. They are out there and people are buying them. I see no reason why I can't build my own.

Thanks

Kirk

I see your attaching your picture and not hosting it from another website such as Photobucket.
Attaching pictures is fine but limits you on the size of the picture you can upload.
Have you checked the size is not exceeding the limited allowed on here?

 

[koditten]

Thanks for the feed back. Yes, it looks bulky at present. Hopefully with air vents, d-rings and some sort of lights below the headlights it will look more uniform. Believe it or not, this bumper is actually less bulky than the factory unit. The factory unit with all the chrome and cladding "tricks" the eye into thinking it is smaller than it really is.

As for my trouble with the pics, I found out just now that the camera was set "huge". You know what I mean. I changed it back to "basic". I plan on taking a few pics before I start out in the morning.

I removed the filler plates to do the fab work, will put those in when I finnish. I haven't decided on what to do for the finnish. I do know I am leaning towards spray in bedliner material for the coating, just don't know if it will be black to match trim or white to match paint.

I have had suggestions for installing a fairlead and a winch. I really don't want to do this, even tho it would look pretty cool. It is just a crime to install an electric winch on the front of a vehicle here in Michigan. The road salt just kills them.

Hopefully I can get 4 or 5 hours of progress on the bumper on Thursday.

Thanks again
Kirk

 

[koditten]

Bumper looks great. These guys probably drive a Prius. Chop it,mod it and drive it and if a Prius gets in your way push it!

This! Seriously, I got no issue with Prius's. It just gets were it seems some people would rather preach then have a good time.

I appreciate all the liability info, but it aint what I asked. Please take your soap boxes to the next thread.

Sorry, its the end of the day and I feel like speaking what is on my mind.

KO

 

[ford.crazy]

Nice bumper, Don't worry about what people say about it. I like big bumpers. Bumpers were originally designed to take the impact of a hit or most of the impact, not crumble like they do now a days. I've had this bumper on my old truck in the pictures and I kept the bumper for my newer truck, which it is on now. 2 accidents where people pulled out in front of me in the last 10 years, My truck 2 there cars 0 lol and nothing was ever said about the bumper. It's made out of 3/16 steel box steel and 3/16 flat plate. The picture is old, but you can see the picture of the bumper. Keep the picture of your build coming, it looks good so far.

 

[IndyGarage]

Nice looking bumper, the deer here are terrible as well. On the subject of airbags, are they normally triggered by an accelerometer or by actual force on a mechanical plunger? I can see the point if it is the latter but if it is triggered by an accelerometer I can't see how the bumper would affect it at all? Also with the multitudes of aftermarket bumpers of this style out there I would think if it was a major concern that all the sue happy lawyers would have litigated them out of existence by now

Most cars only use the accelerometer - which is often located under the passenger seat.

However, larger vehicles and work vehicles often use a supplementary electronic "crush switch" or accelerometer on the front, because they are subject to unusual jolts from trailers and such.

As I recall the Tundra does have one of those behind the middle section of the bumper - offset slightly to the driver's side.

When there is a supplementary, the computer compares the crash impulse from the accelerometer to the switch sensor and when both register in the right sequence and timing - the airbags are deployed.

A homemade or aftermarket bumper will most definitely alter the timing of the crush of the front of the vehicle. The homemade bumper above looks considerably stronger than the OEM bumper - assuming it is - that will delay the signal coming from the supplementary switch. It's possible that it would still work, or it's possible that it wouldn't. It's possible it would still work in a low speed crash, but not a high speed one or vice versa.

The only way to test it would be to crash the vehicle to find out.

The thing that is hard to understand is that it's very, very difficult to figure out if a vehicle is crashing into something within 15 milliseconds. You have to be able to determine if you're hitting something hard, or just bumping it. You have to determine if the vehicle is rolling over or crashing forward, or getting T-boned. You have to weed out other issues - a chain drawing taught on one of the tow hooks, something dropping into the bed, or shifting in the bed, a mechanic hammering on the frame of the vehicle or the seat track, towing a heavy trailer, which can cause all kinds of bumps and jolts.

And all that has to be determined in the first 15/1000 of a second, in order to get the airbags deployed soon enough.

Ford did a study a couple years ago on an F150 and concluded that some aftermarket bumpers would work and some wouldn't - but it was written off for two reasons - first it was an engineering study; they did computer simulations, but they didn't go out and crash trucks, which is very expensive, and second folks said it was just Ford trying to get you to buy their OEM parts. I know personally that their simulations are pretty darn good and the engineers really weren't worried about their parts business, but that was the criticism anyway.

I've not looked, but I'd be surprised if the aftermarket companies don't warn you that you install their equipment at your own risk. If you look at the vehicle owners manual it also will tell you that your safety system warranty and liability are all void if you alter the vehicle.

It's your choice to change your vehicle. Just like it's your choice to smoke or not, or to ride a motorcycle or not, or do base jumping or not - all of those alter your chances of dying prematurely - some more than others. I'm not your mother.

What I am is a guy that knows what he's talking about on this topic, and giving you the opportunity to take those risks with full knowledge rather than ignorance - which some in this thread seem to possess.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

Kirk, looking forward to pics when you get a chance. Got to be a member on the Toyota forum to see the attachments.

Anyway, what method are you using to cut your slots and light holes? Just curious.


From what I can find on the 'net the Tundra uses an accelerometer. My truck uses an accelerometer as well. Clear as day in my service manual. Kirk, check your service manual, likely in the Restraints chapter, if you're curious about yours.

 

[IndyGarage]

From what I can find on the 'net the Tundra uses an accelerometer. My truck uses an accelerometer as well. Clear as day in my service manual. Kirk, check your service manual, likely in the Restraints chapter, if you're curious about yours.

Perhaps you are thinking that an accelerometer negates what I'm saying above? Nope. It wouldn't make any difference. The key to airbag deployment is the software that reads the crash impulse and it is tuned for the specific vehicle.

They all have accelerometers. Chevy, Ford and Toyota also have a switch(es) near the bumper.

My memory was incorrect on the Tundra - there are two sensors behind the bumper - one on each side just inside and above the fog lamps. It also has sensors in the doors for side impact.

This is exactly what the owners manual says (bad english and all):

"The SRS airbags may malfunction or deploy (inflate) accidentally, causing death or serious injury,
- Repairs or modification of the front fender, front bumper, or side of the occupant compartment.
- Installation of snow plows, winches, etc. to the front grille (bull bars, kangaroo bars, etc.)"

 

[GirlnAgarage]

Not at all. Lawyers for every company will always print the CYAs. But those CYA warnings are not definite either. On forums I've read a number of threads of accidents involving truck with replacement bumpers, grill guard and bull bars and airbags deployed, pics included. You mentioned about aftermarket bumper companies doing or not doing actul testing for on this issue. There are some that do and they advertise it. Some there are no mention. So, the subject is getting attention.

Anyway, I respect your information and knowledge base and I certainly can't compete with it. If it needs to be put i writing, I yield to your resume. What I saw interesting is both folks in the thread who noted the airbag issue are in racing in some form or another, judging from avatars and screen name. Safety is at the forefront of motorsports. And I can see that mindset translate over here in to everyday vehicle modifications and accessories.

I don't want to draw Kirk's bumper build thread off kilter anymore than I already have. I think it was mentioned it comes down to the level of risk a person accepts. It's safe to say racers in motorsports accept risks that some folks wouldn't take. Anyway, I don't see the need to continually beat the horse. We've all each said our peace. Plenty of truck owners, for years, have been outfitting their trucks with grill guards and replacement bumpers. Lord knows here in TX you can't throw a rock without hitting one. Anyway, let the man build his bumper in peace. He read the thread. He said he understood it. Now let's just respect his decision whether 'we' agree with it or not.

 

[IndyGarage]

That sounds OK by me - just trying to make sure folks understand.

PS. I think the bumper looks good.

 

[koditten]

Well, that was informative and appreciated. Unfortunately non of it applied to me. The truck was previously issued a salvage title and I bought it that way. After rebuilding it, it now has a rebuilt title. As far as Toyota is conscerned, the vehicle might as well not exist. Absolutely non of the warrenties will be honored by Toyota. I might as well have built it myself. Which I am completely okey with. The vehicle had to be inspected by a State certified inspector. It passed. I can only trust that they know what they are doing.

Indygarage, you are correct on the location of the sensors. They are located in the area you described, attached to the core support.

Now that I got that out of the way, please allow me to attempt to load up some pictures.

Kirk

 

[koditten]

I pulled the bumper off the truck and got the holes cut in it. I think I have removed this thing around 8 or 9 times. I estimate it weighing around 90 pounds.

In order to make a perfect circle the size I needed, I tack welded a bold to the steel and attached a worn out suface grinding wheel. These wheels have a plastic backing that allows them to be trimmed down to the diameter you need.

I bolted the flap wheel down and had a perfect template for the plazma cutter.

There is no way I would even attempt this project without a PC.

More pics to come.

 

[jam022316]

Dude very nice start. Wish I could do something like this for my f150 just don't have the skills or tools. Make sure to keep posting pics!

 

[koditten]

I have no idea why those pics didn' t load. Hopefully they are in this post.

 

[koditten]

Here are some shotsof the unit after the slot and drive ligtht holes were cut.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

Nice - and the pics came through pretty good. How are you thinking you'll attach the fogs?

The plasma does a pretty good job.

A 90lb aftermarket bumper is pretty light (no heavy on the front end). My stocker was 75lbs and the replacement is 185lb.