Upgrading screw drivers

[sparky 1971]

I bought a set of SK cushion grips for the garage last month. Nicest screwdrivers I have ever used. This is coming from someone that has used Klein drivers every day for the last 27 years. (I still use the Kleins at work though)

 

[macgee]

I'm putting in my two cents,

I have had a bunch of screwdrivers sets over the years put through punishment and anger and based on the OP bio I recommend Felo drivers, easily the best value for the price. I would stick to "Made in Germany" screwdrivers, best steel for the price. Go read the reviews on Felo's on KC tools and Amazon. Also here on GJ, there's a thread on rating screwdrivers, I would say Felo was on top.

Wera is cheaper but softer.

With the recent sales coming up I've been going through my tool drawers looking at their condition and seeing what tools need replacing or freshening up.

In my current first to use line up are Williams and PB Swiss, with Wera and Wiha in my to go tool box. My Wera's have been wearing out so that started all the interest in upcoming tool sales. I like there handle and the philips tips have a great feel and fit to them but there soft and wear out. I'm preferring Felo's handle over the Wera but its close.

I then remembered I have a used complete set of Felo 550's that I forgot to give to an old friend, they were my my primary set used every day for four years but in 2017 black friday bit me and bought PB Swiss and Williams to try.

All of them have had about the same amount of use, maybe the felo's have had the most based on wear on the grips. By far the Felo slotted were in better shape than the PB Swiss and Williams. I have to reprofile and fix the worn tips on the PB and Williams. I also have to say I instantly missed the comfort and ergonomics of the Felo handle when holding it. It's gone back into my primary set.
With the philips tips, Williams is doing ok, then the Felo which look good but the black paint has worn (no biggie), the PB Swiss on the other hand look perfect (impressive) and a far cry better than the slotted PB's (not impressive).

Long sorry short, this week Felo's will be going on sale. Look at the sets and see what sizes they include, they differ. I just bought a wood handle set for $19 arriving today to try out.

Vessel are good but they're JIS drivers that have been slightly modernized tips. I would stick to euro designed tips.
Also, Wera and other good german tool makers have moved there manufacturing out of Germany so highly recommend figuring out who is still offering German ones before buying. Felo, some Wiha, Heyco and a couple of others still do. I think Felo is entirely German. The PB Swiss are super pricey and while the philips tips have help up very well, I haven't loved them (the tip fit) but also cant fault them. Maybe because the slotted ones are lame and they so pricey I tend to be more careful with them which is not necessarily a good thing. Wera are great for the casual user. Wiha are great but haven't had much use with there large drivers just the micro sets.

I really noticed this with my 1/4" bits for my Bosch 12v screwdriver. My german made Felo's bits hands down hold up better than the Wera's purchased at the same time. I Love them especially for the price.

 

[Umclemrbig]

Thanks. The sister to the snappy hard handled ones? I was looking at these too, but didnt like the handles as much as the hazet

I have these and they are stout.


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[pizza]

I'm preferring Felo's handle over the Wera but its close.

i have one felo driver and agree the handle is pretty nice. would like to try wera someday.

Vessel are good but they're JIS drivers that have been slightly modernized tips. I would stick to euro designed tips.

untrue. JIS cruciform is no longer a thing. it's been superseded by ISO 8764-1 which fits great in old JIS fasteners. vessel has been ISO 8764-1 for a while now.

that also means that if you have recent-ish (i think ISO 8764-1 was published in 2004, but there was also an earlier DIN spec that is the same) euro PH drivers, you don't need to go out and buy a set of JIS drivers to work on your jap motorcycles or whatever

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=395037

The PB Swiss are super pricey and while the philips tips have help up very well, I haven't loved them (the tip fit) but also cant fault them. Maybe because the slotted ones are lame and they so pricey I tend to be more careful with them which is not necessarily a good thing.

I really noticed this with my 1/4" bits for my Bosch 12v screwdriver. My german Felo's bits hands down hold up better than the Wera's purchased at the same time.

surprised to hear this. pbswiss also follows ISO 8764-1 (for example see the top part of this page https://www.shop.pbtools.us/PB-6190-Multicraft-Screwdrivers-for-Phillips-screws_c74.htm)

i would think they would fit just as well as most euro PH drivers (and vessel as well), but i don't have any PH pbswiss so idk.

i have heard very good things about PH tip wear on pbswiss though.

i do have the slotted pbswiss, and i like them a lot so far. they feel pretty positive and seem to make good contact. what's up with yours? did they bend/twist or what?

 

[M635_Guy]

While all the Wera ones I've used are soft-handled, Wiha has a pretty good range of handles and the Microfinish purple ones (also happen to be their most expensive ones) I find to be some of the best with grease. Their blue and grey economic screwdrivers are a little softer, closer to Wera and Felo, though probably still a little firmer than either of those. But most of the Wihas are fairly firm. The red ones and purple ones are firmer than the economic ones.

I have a couple of the Wiha economics and honestly they aren't that bad with grease and oil, but the Microfinish are definitely better.

Microfinish is gritty like sandpaper, though it doesn't tear up my skin like actual sandpaper would. It's like the most mild sandpaper ever.

I have the Wiha purple microfinish, and haven't had any problems using them in my garage. I don't use screwdrivers much on my old BMW, but they've seen a fair bit of household and a bit of car-wrenching use and I've been very happy with them.

 

[Ralf11]

I am looking for both slotted and PH. No real need for Torx.

I don't necessarily need heavy duty - i dont typically hammer on screw drivers or use them as a chisel. In what scenarios would a heavy duty one with a strike cap become important.

A hex bolster for using a wrench on, or a hole in the handle to slide another through for leverage. I rarely need to go there, but again might be nice.

Anti Cam out and other features that would help me not strip or muck up the heads would be nice.

High voltage isnt really necessary, i dont do a lot with electrical, though i might consider getting a set of insulated ones for the house only use.

This set is being bought with garage and car work in mind.

if you have either run of the 912, you need heavy duty

Best is PB Swiss with the wrenching fixture on the shank and Swiss grip handles

I'd put Vessel and Hazet in 2nd place.

Close 3rd are the new Snap-On comfy grip, followed by their hard handles and others

Craftsmen are ok as chisels...

I tired out about 10 different brands - there are 3 things to look at:
1. handle - ergonomic fit to your hand, grippiness
2. tip
2. strength, wrenching fixture on the shank, warranty - all lumped together

get some nice Hazet sockets for the 912 - the knurl is where it should be

 

[macgee]

Good to know about Vessel, Tbh I have no experience with them, only just by what I read and I do like them by what I see & read. I use to restore bicycles and while tuning them it was apparent that JIS screwdrivers were far better than my euro and american drivers, Shimano screw heads just didn't like them so I bought a jis set and was very happy with them on bikes but its been 10 years since really working on them. The JIS drivers were not good on american fasteners.

PB Swiss is a great company that few can match in quality and materials, we need more companies like them. My PB slotted's have worn out, my 3.5 & 4mm especially; maybe I got a bad batch, I did have to return a third one because it had twist badly after just 1-2 uses, the Felo had no issue on same fasterner/machine. No questions asked and I got a new one but that one is wearing not twisting. I like their handles a lot, they're like a rock hard sponge and the grooves in them give you good grip and torque, although I find the Felo's more comfortable for longer use. The phillips heads on the PB's have no sign of wear.

Agree with the above getting PB's with with hexagonal shaft but they're super pricey ($130 for 6) and not offered in sets so you have to buy them individually and they don't offer them in sizes larger than 8mm (under 3/8") slotted which is odd since they make a phillips #4. A 10mm slotted can get a lot use especially with a hex shaft.

In my machine shop I have the jigs and tools to profile the slotted blades back to being crisp and flat/perpendicular. I do this often with my watchmaking drivers and you'll notice a night and day difference when freshening up.

The SK soft grip drivers are great, they are the same as the old Craftsman Professional drivers that are no longer being made, pretty silly to see how much those are going for on eBay but I still have a 1/4" inch that I really like to use and refuse to retire it. They have similar tip profile as the Williams, the Williams were a bit stronger.

I also have the William/Snap-On driver set and hard not recommended them, The price is awesome for what you get (huge sets), there tough and you can just beat the hell out them. For the price, they're great. The squarish handle gives you a lot of good torque with with those big corners. A good American tool.

All of this can be so subjective. The grip, length, weight, balance and profile all have influence on what you think of them, a lot of it can be a personal taste, attitude and also importantly what you're working on (the type of fasteners). I do like my Felo 550 4mm much more than my PB Swiss, and I have a precision 4mm Wiha for when a carful light touch is needed.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

idk how good the vessel megadora handles are with oil. never used them like that. maybe someone else can chime in?

I have 1 Megadora, 1 Microfinish and one Softfinish, heh. But I have 2 Vessel Impacta!

Microfinish is the best grip of them in my opinion [edit to note: I mostly mean when oily here]. The Softfinish and Impacta are probably similar in grip performance (though not super similar in "absolute feel"). I would call them both OK and generally usable when oily. Of those 3, the Impacta cleans up easiest, though both Wihas clean up decently. The Wiha blue and black economy screwdrivers are a bit harder to clean (in my experience).

The Megadora I have is a PH0 and I haven't gotten that one oily at all.

 

[Legion Prime]

My bad - I meant to say ‘Tekno” not “Ergo”.

These are the drivers I was thinking of.

I don’t normally like soft handles but these are well thought out. They are very easy in the hand and offer a lot of grip. Perhaps not ideal in a greasy environment but fine everywhere else.

Yes, the tips seem to be quite decent. I have a No.2 Pozidriv that sees quite regular use, especially on crappy screws where I don’t want to use my PB, and it’s lasted very well. The Spanish can make decent steel.

Spain, the home of Toledo can make decent steel? I'd say so! LOL
I'd recommend a mixture of drivers. If I were starting from scratch I'd go out and buy a set of Pittsburgh Pro's from HF so I have something in hand NOW. A buddy bought them and for the price they're surprisingly decent. Then I'd order a set of the Felo wood handled screwdrivers from Menard's (dropshipped directly from Bondhus for a minimum of $10 less than I've seen anywhere else) sand down the handles when they show up and then oil them. After that I'd start sampling as you've got your basics covered. Try some Vessel, some PB Swiss, some Wiha, maybe a couple more Felo, a couple Hazet, a Tekton or two, some Williams ordering what you think you'll use most so as to have backups. That way you can get a feel for what you like handlewise, see how different manufacturers tips fit and still have cheapies you don't care enough about to be bothered by taking them to a grinder if necessary. There are bound to be a couple handle shapes you can't stand whether it be from comfort/utility or even aesthetics, nothing wrong with that.
I recently used the grinder to square up some old flatheads for a bag I put together for electrical stuff. The smaller wooden handled one was from a childrens tool set I got when I was maybe 10. No problem, I worked the blade with a file to fit perfectly in the slotted screws that hold electrical faceplates on. The other old Sears got trued up and left a bit larger for the screws to BX collars and metal junction boxes.

 

[mr.lemons]

hey lemons,

buyer's remorse triggered.

i have a 10pc set of softfinish, and sometimes i regret not trying both that and microfinish before buying.

i pretty much never get my drivers oily, and i've still never seen a microfinish in person.

do you like one vs the other for non-oily use, or are they about the same?

Sorry about that.

I find Softfinish to be quite a bit grippier with dry or even sweaty hands so would say that Microfinsh is specialist just for oil. My bias is towards soft or rubber handles though so maybe subjective.

 

[sk farmer]

we get an opinion? ------felo ergonic and felo woodies

 

[kmacht]

I don't get it. I have been using screwdrivers for 40+ years. Every one I have used regardless of the brand turns the screw just fine and I have never broken one unless I was abusing it or using it in an application it wasn't intended for. I have a mix of harbor freight, craftsman, kobalt, and snap-on screwdrivers in my toolbox. I just grab what ever one is on top. To each their own, just don't think that one brand screw driver is going to make a job go quicker or make you a better mechanic.

 

[PelicanPines]

You fine people have pushed me over the edge. I am a diehard WERA fan. I have 40-50 year old craftsman clear handles... I have a FULL SET of Kleins in a carry bag.

I now have a #2 Phillips VESSEL on order from Japan. Should arrive before XMAS. It's a fancy style.

This is an expensive... free forum.

Too ****

 

[American Locomotive]

I don't get it. I have been using screwdrivers for 40+ years. Every one I have used regardless of the brand turns the screw just fine and I have never broken one unless I was abusing it or using it in an application it wasn't intended for. I have a mix of harbor freight, craftsman, kobalt, and snap-on screwdrivers in my toolbox. I just grab what ever one is on top. To each their own, just don't think that one brand screw driver is going to make a job go quicker or make you a better mechanic.

I've been using screwdrivers for 20+ years too.

..and there is absolutely a noticeable difference how "high-end" screwdrivers engage screws vs. cheap ones.

same thing with the grips. When your hands are covered in oil and you're trying to tighten something - grip styles make a huge difference.

 

[sberry]

Have you used the new HF drivers?

I just grab what ever one is on top.

This is what I do too. I actually like some of the mismatch, a guy can recognize certain ones and know if its good enough to do the job. I have and do have "good" ones, they are worn out,,, hence the replacements and had this collection a long time and surprised by the survivors. When I bought it was cause I didnt have enough,, not really cause it wasnt good enough and used to try and keep a number 2 Plillips Klein stashed for a few fussy screws but 2 or 3 times picked up the orange handle flea sets for 14$ when I was needy and considering the cost and abuse they were worth it.
They got treated badly and most are long gone but these new are as cheap but wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better. Even those **** Sears drivers are decent when new but when I get one it becomes the new kid on the block and used hard as its easy to spot. I got some plain cheap ole things from a bargain bin for a dollar 25 years ago and they are still in the wind, no reason, they just held up, still working, others came and went.

 

[dutchgray]

My bad - I meant to say ‘Tekno” not “Ergo”.

These are the drivers I was thinking of.

I don’t normally like soft handles but these are well thought out. They are very easy in the hand and offer a lot of grip. Perhaps not ideal in a greasy environment but fine everywhere else.

Yes, the tips seem to be quite decent. I have a No.2 Pozidriv that sees quite regular use, especially on crappy screws where I don’t want to use my PB, and it’s lasted very well. The Spanish can make decent steel.

The few of those I have are decent, they have large handles for a given size as well if you're after a bigger handle.
The other type, the Ergo was the Belzer type and are also good.

 

[username2]

My general take is to have a dirty and a clean set.

The clean set has high quality, and probably more fragile, tips in an honest attempt to not ****** up screwheads. I have more screwdriver than I need, but the PB Swiss look to be the clear winner here. It might be enough to simply have a set of PB Swiss bits and a hex handle.

Dirty set can be any old thing. Suitable for opening paint cans and general abuse, hard handle, easy to wipe off. Something like those Williams sets looks about right although old Craftsman would be fine too. There's probably some perfectly good HF set available complete with that patented HF stank.

 

[sberry]

It isn't just me, hire men on occasion, no one needs to bring anything. The econo cost made it so much easier to thin the herd and replace some stuff that was worn. They were fine when new, they got used a lot, they got abused a little, but as good as they were they are worn and Klein not likely to replace them. The grips are great, easy to spot, so far the tips are still sharp. I tried a couple earlier and they became the go 2 for being new. They worked so well we bought 15 more and I gonna go all in for another half a dozen regular and a couple smaller ones.
Not sure how they would make a better more comfy grip.

 

[sberry]

Common cars dont use them, I was in a buds auto shop a while back and had to go to my truck to find a screwdriver.

 

[Ralf11]

I bought P B Swiss with hexagonal shaft individually - some are on Amazon, tho I might have gotten them from Tool Lady

OP will just have to try different handles and see what he likes since everybody is different ergonomic-wise.

e.g. I tried a Felo and relegated it to the downstairs tool drawer - good price tho

 

[Sidchrome]

Not a fan of soft handles. Those Williams screwdrivers are an excellent general purpose tool, they are a pleasure to use with their oversized handles.
I’m also fond of Gedore’s older hard handle screwdrivers. I like my Felo tools as well but find the the handles not as nice as the Williams or Gedore.

 

[tool_scrounge]

I just picked up a set of William's screwdrivers for work. Nothing fancy on the handles, but they should work fine,

Years back I picked up some Witte soft grip screw drivers. I like the soft grip, but they were impossible to keep clean. Once a rodent got into my garage and all it chewed was the Witte soft handles. They were eaten like corn on the cob.nothing else was touched.

 

[Blind1]

I have a whole set of Tekton tri-lobe screwdrivers. I find myself more often reaching for my 11 in 1.

 

[jeffmoss26]

Tekton are nice. Wiha, wera; honestly I love all screwdrivers

 

[hoffman912]

Thanks guys! I think I have narrowed it down to the hazet 810/6, hazet 803, wiha micro finish or vessel wood compo.

The cost of the 810 has that one in the lead but I saw a few complaints about them. The 803 is classic, but I can’t find a lot of reviews (and cost is over 100). I was looking at a cheaper wiha set before but if the micro finish has that much grip, it makes it that much more attractive.. plus it has the hex to put a wrench on for leverage and the strike cap.. but again over 100.

I wouldnt say I’m swimming in oil when I wrench, but I some how always find a way to get dirty enough, grease, dirt, grime, what have you, and that impacts grip.


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[unknownroad]

One thing that I really like about Vessel is that they make it easy to buy a set of just Phillips drivers. I've got flat-head screwdrivers coming out the ying-yang and back up the wazoo, but 90% of the time the driver I need is a #2 phillips and no matter how many I buy there's never one handy.

I hate Vessel's hard black plastic handles on their economy line, though- they feel cheap and nasty and they're just too small.

I recently decided to buy a bunch of loosies in #2 phillips x 6", and my favorite handle of the bunch was Wera's hexagonal deal. No matter where the screw is in its rotation, it's comfortable to hold in a variety of positions (I'll sometimes use my fingertips if I'm working by feel on something that can't stand a lot of torque- squared-off handles are terrible for that)

 

[bsaint]

Im partial to tri lobe so Snap-on gets my recommendation.

 

[Fedwrench]

Proto/MAC Duratec. Get an eight piece bolstered set and call it a day.

To flat screwdrivers around cars are only pry bars.

 

[Cypress]

Just pulled the trigger on these thx to this thread.

 

[PelicanPines]

You fine people have pushed me over the edge. I am a diehard WERA fan. I have 40-50 year old craftsman clear handles... I have a FULL SET of Kleins in a carry bag.

I now have a #2 Phillips VESSEL on order from Japan. Should arrive before XMAS. It's a fancy style.

This is an expensive... free forum.

Too ****

Arrived today from Japan... WOW that was fast. DHL Special Delivery.

 

[Ralf11]

tell us about the grip...

 

[PelicanPines]

tell us about the grip...

Handle is perfect for a normal "large hand"... it's alternating smooth and grippy sides (SIX sided)... the grippy parts are made up of tiny spots with what appears to be softer grip rubber. It appears well made. It has a hammer end. The red ring appears to be decorative and not something that will break.

I'm considering a fine tip flat to accompany this #2 Phillips.

I paid too much... $20 + $10 shipping but... they got it to me from Japan in a week. It was a single listing on eBay... "last one". Amazon has this one listed for RIP OFF... $80.

I'm pleased with paying $30 so far... but feel it's pricey. If you know of where to get them cheaper... don't tell me...

 

[Ralf11]

are the soft rubber dots proud of the harder rubber?


Don't feel bad - I blew 100 bucks on the PB Swiss sale 2 days ago...

 

[ChevyEFI]

Im partial to tri lobe so Snap-on gets my recommendation.

Try Toptul screwdrivers sometime.

 

[Renegade1LI]

Bought these years ago at HD, great feel, good grip & I still use them every day, bought dozens of them when they were on clearance.

 

[2Busy]

Go PB Swiss, you’ll have no regrets. The soft Swissgrips are nice but if you’ll be getting them dirty you might want to go with their hard handled version.

 

[noid]

PB Swiss is so far ahead of everyone else, especially for what they cost, this really shouldn't be a conversation.

 

[pizza]

Handle is perfect for a normal "large hand"... it's alternating smooth and grippy sides (SIX sided)... the grippy parts are made up of tiny spots with what appears to be softer grip rubber. It appears well made. It has a hammer end. The red ring appears to be decorative and not something that will break.

I'm considering a fine tip flat to accompany this #2 Phillips.

I paid too much... $20 + $10 shipping but... they got it to me from Japan in a week. It was a single listing on eBay... "last one". Amazon has this one listed for RIP OFF... $80.

I'm pleased with paying $30 so far... but feel it's pricey. If you know of where to get them cheaper... don't tell me...

do you not know about azjp?

https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B001VB1IXU/

19.67 USD

or if you pay directly in JPY, you save a bit. the bottom right of the above screenshot. pick JPY.
assuming you use visa, this is how to see their current exchange rate:

https://usa.visa.com/support/consum...l?amount=1978&fee=0.0&fromCurr=USD&toCurr=JPY

1978 JPY = 19.04 USD

and then on top of that you get about 8 cents worth of amazon points you can use on a future azjp purchase

btw, you save a bit on shipping if you buy more stuff at once.

also, be sure to use a credit card that does not charge a foreign transaction fee.

 

[PelicanPines]

are the soft rubber dots proud of the harder rubber?


Don't feel bad - I blew 100 bucks on the PB Swiss sale 2 days ago...

Proud, visually ever so slightly but are absolutely felt in the hand. Totally comfortable. I have another screwdriver with large nubs... not comfortable at all for lots of screwing.

This will displace my wera #2 for my daily.

No room in my drawer ... Will need to eliminate someone, so this vessel has a place to live.

 

[pizza]

how's the shroud (or whatever it's called) on that screwdriver, pelican? i mean the thing between the handle and the blade.

does it seem sturdy?