Vintage Craftsman Table Saw Thread

[BlueBomber]

Well, in honor of crossing the 100 posts mark on Garage Journal, I thought I'd celebrate with a new thread on Craftsman table saws. I did some searching and couldn't find an existing one, so if I missed it, consider this an echo.

Yesterday I found a 103.20000 buried in a basement in Acton, MA at an estate sale. The parents had passed and the siblings were ready to sell the property. One of the adult children, Louie, was still living there and was reluctant to part with the tools in the basement. However, he recognized the need to move, so he had this Craftsman partially disassembled and ready to sell. I picked it up for $85.

View media item 49594View media item 49599View media item 49598View media item 49424
Overall, she's in pretty good shape. Louie fired her up for me and said the saw was used regularly, but not abused. The blade guard was missing, and I did not think to ask about it.

View media item 49596The motor is a pretty clean 3/4-hp that hums happily when the hard-wired switch on the front of the saw is flipped. There's a code that looks like a date next to the motor model number ("4 55"). Does that mean April 1955?

View media item 49595Here's a better view of the back. What are the bars on the back for? A roller or stock feeder system?

View media item 49597The tape is a little worn - does anyone re-manufacture these for 103s?

View media item 49592View media item 49425One of the things I really like about this setup is the saw dust catcher it is sitting on. It appears to be a repurposed shipping crate or trunk of some kind, complete with metal protectors on the corners and edges.

I really like this old workhorse, but I just bought a new Craftsman about a year ago. Fortunately, I have enough room in the garage to allow me some time to make up my mind.

 

[BlueBomber]

To help make this a useful thread, I thought I'd collect in one place links to a few threads folks have posted on Craftsman table saws. There's a LOT of experience and knowledge on this site!!

Joe.Gravelle's thread has some good info on sources for upgrades
s2cattracks' thread has some good info in restoring these saws

Here's a link to Vintage Machinery's King Seeley page, with history on the company that built these for Sears.

...and their collection of Sears literature.

Paints:
1950's Power Bronze: Valspar gloss cobalt cannon or XO Rust Professional Bronze is a good match

Jake Mac posted some paint opinions on Power Bronze substitutes here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5713371

Feel free to add any resources you've collected!

 

[Alan Douglas]

It's probably sacrilege in the "vintage tools" section, but I couldn't wait to get rid of the old tilting-table Craftsman I grew up with. My father bought it in the mid-1940s and got a lot of use from it. I would sit on the cellar stairs and watch, and eventually I made things with it too, but it was always wobbly and of course the tilting table was a real nuisance.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

You got a great deal.

I have a '69 C-Man 100 that is great to use. You may want to check out vintagemachinery.org and OWWM.com for added inspiration.

 

[Stuart in MN]

It's probably sacrilege in the "vintage tools" section, but I couldn't wait to get rid of the old tilting-table Craftsman I grew up with.

The tilting table saws were pretty miserable to use, but the one above has a tilting arbor and is a pretty decent old saw.

 

[AdrianBoomer]

I have 2 Craftsman table saws. One is a 1940s 113.27520 with a 2ph motor and this one is my current project. It is a 103.20003 with an original 1hp motor. There are are not too many of these 9" saws floating around or at least not well documented and specific parts are harder to find. I wasn't looking for another project but it was given to me and I have since really gotten into it. I was fortunate to have an original Blade guard laying around my shop. It really gives the saw a cool vibe even if it is a little useless. I also had to paint the faceplate as it was badly mangled and didnt feel like sourcing a cleaner one of Ebay. I used a hammered paint and it turned out pretty good. Anyhow, I can't find an original blade insert and I am missing the motor pulley. I just wanted to share as we have the same saw and maybe we can be helpful to one another. There are only a couple on the OWWM registry

 

[BlueBomber]

Yep, the blade is what moves on mine, not the table.

 

[Scimonetti]

Here's my 8 inch, cleaned up but not repainted. $35 with boatloads of nos blades, dados, and manuals.

Has anybody mounted the motor directly to the saw on an 8"? I can't picture how to get it to move with the arbor like the 10" http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284902

And the 10" $50 http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=273779

 

[Model A Fan]

Wow, wonderful job on the refurb. I have one of these that's been outside for a while because it doesn't fit in my garage and I've never considered it very viable as a table saw...maybe I should look into using it now.

Are these powerful enough to actually work? Or are they more for show and to look nice? I'll see if I can get some photos of mine. Unfortunately, the weather has caused the paint to fade...sacrilege!

Is the base on that one that got redone specifically built for it or is it a universal base used on drill presses and saws etc.?

 

[Scimonetti]

Wow, wonderful job on the refurb. I have one of these that's been outside for a while because it doesn't fit in my garage and I've never considered it very viable as a table saw...maybe I should look into using it now.

Are these powerful enough to actually work? Or are they more for show and to look nice? I'll see if I can get some photos of mine. Unfortunately, the weather has caused the paint to fade...sacrilege!

Is the base on that one that got redone specifically built for it or is it a universal base used on drill presses and saws etc.?

Thanks! To be honest these are the only table saws I've ever owned. I've used plenty of others from a cabinet saw stop to the cheapo plastic contractor saws though.

The 10" I think is good. The fence is not perfect but has geared adjustment and is quite square. After the rebuild it Whirrs nicely and I can balance a nickel on it and start and stop it. The things that greatly improve it are set it up properly and make sure the arbor is square to the miter slots and table, and use a good sharp blade and zero clearance insert. It's no cabinet saw, but with 15 amp beefy motor it has power. Also a 20x27" table.

The 8" is not a serious table saw. Aluminum arbor assembly, pretty small table, small blade, fence leaves much to be desired, and with the 1/2hp cannot work well with dimensional hardwoods. I still plan on keeping it set up for plywood though and it looks cool!

As for the stand, it is part of Craftsman's 1950s OEM collection, they are hard to find. This is the 1956 catalog with them.

 

[AdrianBoomer]

Inspired by the enthusiasm of this thread, I figured I would post my 2 saws side by side. The 10" has a 2hp Dayton wired for 220 and a 60 tooth Freud. As I am a boat builder, this saw see a ton of dimensional lumber and hardwoods. I am pretty sure the 113.27520 will handle anything I throw at it!

Still piecing the 9" together but I have a dado set that I think i will use and make this a dedicated saw, but not before I put it to the test. I still need a motor pulley of the appropriate size. Do you guys think a standard 2.5" will do the trick or do I need to go down to a 2"? I also can't find a cast insert anywhere.

Scimonetti, nice work on your 10", love the pedestal stand. Look forward to seeing what you do with that other saw

 

[Model A Fan]

What would a Craftsman Model 103.22160 and 103.22161 run in decent shape? I found some for sale at a shop here in my town for $25 for one with a 3/4HP motor by Craftsman and one without for $20. The 103.22160 is $20 and the other is $25 as it has the motor.

Are they worth restoring? If needed, I can post pictures.

I wish those pedestals were easier to find. Those are really nice and it looks like there was a wide array of them too.

 

[Model A Fan]

Here's the $20 one. It doesn't have a motor but it is in decent shape. I'd like to be able to rip some plywood and mainly that's it. Maybe cut a board lengthwise. Some miter cuts that are longer than what my miter saw can do or a radial arm saw.

 

[Model A Fan]

Here's the $25 one. Motor but no stand and no extension to the table. I'd probably use them both for parts to make one complete one.

When these are refurbished, do they sell for much or is there even much of a market for them? It might be a fun hobby to refurbish these slowly...

 

[Model A Fan]

What are the limitations of these types of saws? What is the guard that you are referring to? The paint seems decent, but the table top, is pretty dirty and worn. Is the way you clean them is with simple green and a scotch brite pad? Or is it WD40 and scotch brite pad? I don't think I'd get too attached after doing a few of them.

 

[RJFinn]

What a trip, this is the same model that I learned on in my fathers basement in the early mid 70's, it was probably 15 or 20 yrs old then. His had a bolt together perforated steel stand, and a 7/8 hp motor which was weird. It looked the same but was gold and brown. The arms on the back were for a wooden outfeed roller that resembled a segmented rolling pin, which i'm sure could be made. His was 9 inch which made it hard to get good blades, but there are decent 8 1/2s available fairly inexpensive, Good luck, thanks for the pics

 

[AdrianBoomer]

What are the limitations of these types of saws? What is the guard that you are referring to? The paint seems decent, but the table top, is pretty dirty and worn. Is the way you clean them is with simple green and a scotch brite pad? Or is it WD40 and scotch brite pad? I don't think I'd get too attached after doing a few of them.

I got into Vintage tools because they were cheaper to buy at the time I was putting a small shop together, and they are built better than the **** today(barring exceptions). I also like old vibey things so the idea of my shop being a 1940s though-back was appealing. I think that if I resold any of my floor/power tools, I would get a very small return but not a big profit. Aside from my an old Drill press, I would probably only get what I out in, ot including my time.

The 8" saws were aluminum castings under the table where the 10" saws were iron, so they are just lighter build quality. Also the table itself and wing extensions are smaller. But they are still great little saws, you just need to be aware of the limitations as a user.

I have restored all my vintage craftsman tools down to the bolts and bearings. I wire wheel all machined surfaces, bolts and parts, and use a little grease before bolting it all back together. Repaint when necessary but I like original paint if possible. Simple green or any mild cleaning agent works on the castings and chassis parts. For the table surface, I have used WD40 and a razor blade, scotch brite pad and steel wool etc. WD40 is a great cleaning agent on a rusty surface. Use sanding pads on your orbital 220,320,600 grits and start to get things looking really good after all the scrapping and scrubbing. I then finish using a 1500 grit micro-mesh followed by car wax to polish and seal. Other people will have different suggestions, those are just mine.

Look forward to seeing what becomes of these saws!

 

[BlueBomber]

Has anyone researched or otherwise collected paint codes or matching shades for the paint on the various eras of Craftsman saws? if so, post them, and I'll pull them together into my Useful Info post at the front of this thread.

Mike

 

[Scimonetti]

Has anyone researched or otherwise collected paint codes or matching shades for the paint on the various eras of Craftsman saws? if so, post them, and I'll pull them together into my Useful Info post at the front of this thread.

Mike

Both ones I posted pics are valsapar gloss cobalt cannon. One is repainted the other isn't

 

[bisley45]

When I get home I'll post up the match I found for the craftsman power bronze.

Ok made home here is the color I have found that matches the power bronze color. and a saw I restored using it.

 

[BlueBomber]

Thanks, Bisley! I've never seen that brand around these parts. Your console saw looks great. How did you strip all of the nooks and crannies on the miter slide?

 

[nickelTwin]

When I get home I'll post up the match I found for the craftsman power bronze.

Ok made home here is the color I have found that matches the power bronze color. and a saw I restored using it.

I have the same saw. It's a great saw. I have a different fence.

 

[jakemac]

Thanks, Bisley! I've never seen that brand around these parts. Your console saw looks great. How did you strip all of the nooks and crannies on the miter slide?

Blue - XO Rust is a house brand for True Value. If your local TV doesn't carry it, they should be able to order it from the warehouse in Manchester, NH.

 

[BlueBomber]

Cool - thanks Jake, I'll take a look.

 

[Rock knocker]

Before and afters of my dads old 8" 103.21041 with aftermarket fence

 

[Model A Fan]

I waited too long and the saws sold. Oh well, it is an OK thing though. In my garage's current state, there would be no room and they'd likely sit in the elements for a little while. Still bummed though. There was a delta brand jointer/table saw combo for $100, and I should have grabbed a few photos. I'll be on the lookout while garage saleing.

 

[AdrianBoomer]

Hey Scimonetti, here is where my disease has taken me. I was putting together my small garage shop so I could be a stay at home dad and still work on small boat building jobs. I could not afford state of the art nor was I attracted to it. I picked a brand that was cool and resonated with me and now I have a bunch of minty craftsman power tools at I run. They are all stock aside from bearings, blades and belts. I just cut 6 8 foot deck beams made of Mahogany on the 3-wheeler. It handled it beautifully, not a hesitation (new blade)....You will see the 113.27520 and 103.20003 table saws I know this is a table saw thread, sorry!

 

[BlueBomber]

Nice collection of old iron, Adrian. I too have been bitten by the old Craftsman "wannas" and am now watching for the same bandsaw and sander that you have.

 

[BFBOB]

Good thread - lots of information, except what I need!
I have a couple of the ubiquitous 8" Craftsman table saws of the 103. variety. Been using one for ten years; the second I just bought for a donor- mostly because it has the nice cast iron wings. Now it appears it's more complete than I thought and I may be forced to put it back in usable condition. I'm going to mix and match to make one saw the best possible and maybe sell the other. I've been through these enough to know most of what makes 'em tick. The one thing I don't know is how to replace the arbor bearings. I can't see any kind of bearing retainer, screwed on or c-clip as some have. Is it possible they're just pressed in? I'd sure hate to stick it on the 20-ton and find out the hard way there's some retainer I didn't see! The two saws are: user - 103.23834. Donor - 103.22161. They appear identical, but I've found some detail differences in the rip fences. Any help will be much appreciated!

 

[bagged89s10]

Here are my 2 table saws I just picked up this week.

8" I got for free. I can't believe the guy didn't even try to get some cash for it. Just the switch/outlet box was bad. Came with a miter gauge. No fence. 3/4HP motor. Model 103.23832
Going to sell or part this one out since I found the 10" model below.




10" I got for $35 with stand. No fence or miter gauge but the miter from the 8" fits. Also the same 3/4HP motor.
Model 113.27520





What's the best way to remove the rust of the turned metal face while preserving the turned finish?




~Veeps

 

[bagged89s10]

I don't think you can preserve the finish and remove the rust. Looks pretty deep. Using any abrasives will remove the light scratches that make up the engine turning. I think chemical is the only way to go, and it would still look pretty bad. You might want to just sand and polish the front panel.

I'd be happy with even a just a brushed finish. Someone suggested to try Nevr-Dull Polish.


~Veeps

 

[Lassen Forge]

Simichrome and 4-0 steel wool?

If it were mine... I'd pull it apart, find (or make) up a tub to fit the base, and de-rust it using the washing soda & water/battery charger method. You'll still have to rebuff it out, but that's your best chance of not losing the turned surface IMO. It will take a few days, likely, but it will get the rust off. You'll have to recoat it after (it will strip the metal to bare, and surface rust appears within minutes!), I've had a lot of luck using Deft clear Lacquer (yeah, I know, it says its for wood, but it's clear lacquer and works!) which lets the metal (and machining) show thru without the rust problems.

 

[bagged89s10]

Simichrome and 4-0 steel wool?



If it were mine... I'd pull it apart, find (or make) up a tub to fit the base, and de-rust it using the washing soda & water/battery charger method. You'll still have to rebuff it out, but that's your best chance of not losing the turned surface IMO. It will take a few days, likely, but it will get the rust off. You'll have to recoat it after (it will strip the metal to bare, and surface rust appears within minutes!), I've had a lot of luck using Deft clear Lacquer (yeah, I know, it says its for wood, but it's clear lacquer and works!) which lets the metal (and machining) show thru without the rust problems.

Yeah I need to make an electrolysis tank for one of my vises so maybe I'll just make a bigger one. Then I can de-rust the table top too.

What's the closest spray paint color to these saws?


~Veeps

 

[KMinAF]

Still use it on a regular basis. Works great although the table is a little small.

 

[Rock knocker]

What's the best way to remove the rust of the turned metal face while preserving the turned finish?

It is aluminum

 

[MixManSC]

No picture of it right now. Its somewhat buried in my shop..... I inherited one from my dad when he passed some years back. It does still work great. Godawful heavy thing and I plan on eventually restoring it.

Google helped me find a photo of one just like it though and apparently its from around 1946 and is called a 10" Builders Saw (tilt arbor too). Pretty sure its model 109.22620.

Also just found an owners manual for it too! This site has a ton of old Sears manuals.

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=222&tab=3


This photo is not mine - but the one I have is identical. The one mod it definitely needs is wheels. It is atrocious to drag it around.

 

[Red Leader]

Here is my Emerson cabinet saw:

 

[BFBOB]

Still looking for advice on changing arbor bearings on my 8" Craftsman table saw: user - 103.23834. Donor - 103.22161.
No visible retainers. I tried very gently tapping on the arbor in the direction it looks like the bearings might press out (with a wood block protecting the shaft end!). No movement.
I'm very reluctant to try sterner measures without expert advice. I have a press, and have practice at removing bearings with heat thanks to my BMW motorcycle, but on this saw I'm flying blind, and would really hate to destroy it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rock knocker]

Still looking for advice on changing arbor bearings on my 8" Craftsman table saw: user - 103.23834. Donor - 103.22161.
No visible retainers. I tried very gently tapping on the arbor in the direction it looks like the bearings might press out (with a wood block protecting the shaft end!). No movement.
I'm very reluctant to try sterner measures without expert advice. I have a press, and have practice at removing bearings with heat thanks to my BMW motorcycle, but on this saw I'm flying blind, and would really hate to destroy it.

Thanks in advance.

I came up against the same issues when I rebuilt mine. OWWM and Vintage Machinery don't have the best search functions, not do they work as well with google as other forums, but I did research this topic about a year ago. What I found was that the bearings were water pump bearings, and are very difficult to remove.

Given that there wasn't excessive wear on my unit, I opted to leave well enough alone.

I suggest that advice may be well heeded in many other cases.

I'll continue to search those forums today to see if I can find a useful link

 

[bagged89s10]

What's the best way to make this table saw more mobile and less wobbly when wheeling it? I like to wheel it outside when using to minimize saw dust in my garage. The legs flex enough for me to work that they will bend, and it's hard to turn it. Should I make just a simple angle iron base for it to sit in and put 4 swivel casters with brakes? Please post up your pictures if you have made anything for yours.