Vintage S-K Tools

[Old Radar]

To those of us who grew up watching Bewitched on TV and marveled at the goofy advertising slogans Samantha's husband Darin would come up with for his client-driven boss, Larry Tate, it's not surprising at all.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

My take on the brand is that it was a price line designed to offload prewar inventory because S-K had upgraded their steel alloy. Others may disagree.

Upgraded their steel from what to what? Before the war they were probably using some form of Chrome-Moly or Chrome-V for their high quality line stuff, right? Hence the Chrome Alloy branding. They could no longer use that during the war because of WPB Material Order restrictions. They had to switch to one of the WPB approved low-dose triple (Chrome-Nickel-Moly) alloys. Are you saying they took their old stock Chrome Alloy and sold it as Carb-O-Mang, a name that clearly alludes to carbon manganese? That doesn't make sense to me. Further complicating that theory is the fact that the WPB gave all manufacturers until October 1942 (with a further grace period to April 1943) to sell old stock.

AISI 1340 would've been a price line composition regardless of the war and my theory is it was an economy line class that quickly got squelched by WPB Limitation Order L-216.

It's too bad we don't have more info on it. I poked round for a while a few years ago without much luck.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...to be sold to knuckle-draggers who likely have so little edumacation that they can’t spell carburetor even on a good day...

The "Carb" in "Carb-O-Mang" is a reference to carbon, not carburetor. If that's what you're referring to there. According to the 1943 catalog, the "Carb-O-Mang" line included 1/4- and 1/2-inch drive tools, in various sets, in various size boxes. Not just midget, for ignition work. I have never seen anything other than midget sets, but as you can see, the decals wore off easily. They were shown in the back of the catalog, explicitly marketed as more affordable than the Chrome Alloy line in the front of the catalog. They are not included in the 1941 catalog.

Edit: no 3/8

 

[Stillgottimefor1]

I understand and don’t have any doubt that you are right but my point is that it seems silly (now) to name something that way. The thought process leading to it was probably along the same vein as the x-ray machines that were used as a way to market shoes for children….the horror! Whiz-Bang technology used to capture the imagination and lure buyers with fancy wording is still popular but hopefully less deadly today…on the other hand Medicines often now have small movies showing someone with an affliction going about their life and meeting a potential mate, then the high-speed disclaimer at the end lists a whole panoply of side effects that often include death….Hey! Our product will possibly cure your embarrassing skin condition and may cure your loneliness, but you may have bleeding from your toenails and might die!

 

[four.cycle]

Wow. I wasn't aware you had one. That set is more vivid than mine!

It is in great condition, without the usual UV fading seen on the outsides of so many other boxes.
I am still in need of a 3/8" socket for the set to replace the one which is cracked. Don was kind enough to supply a 5/16" to replace that one (which was also cracked.)


It's possible the recognition of the word "Manganese" might well be in part influenced by the geographic location of the person being presented with the word.
Here in the Pacific Northwest, it is very common, as it's an element found in the rock of our mountains, particularly on the Olympic Peninsula, which has been the cause of that geographic area being something of a "black hole" when it comes to things like cellular telephone transmissions and Doppler radar. Until the advent of satellite communication systems, all electronic communications within the core of the Olympic Peninsula required line-of-sight (or relay towers) in order to be received. It still presents issues for people attempting to use cellular phones and other electronic devices up there - like GPS units. Don't go off trail up there if you don't know how to use a compass.

* edit:
* for more on the mineral composition of the Olympic Mountains, see "Guide to the Geology of Olympic National Park" © 1975 Rowland W. Tabor, University of Washington Press
* a Doppler facility was installed near Pacific Beach, Washington within the last decade, which somewhat alleviated the issue of the blacked-out pie wedge which appeared on local weather forecast broadcasts.

 

[d42jeep]

Here are a couple of Carb-0-Mang sockets. It’s interesting that on these two sockets the center punch marks are only on one side of the size markings.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

I was going back before the S-K Chrome Alloy tools to even earlier sets which well could have been carbon steel. Check out how similar the early set looks to the Carb-O-Mang set.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I was going back before the Chrome Alloy tools to even earlier sets which well could have been carbon steel.

Ah, that makes much more sense. I don't think of production that early as "prewar," especially when there are major changes in style and steel etc after that but before the war, so I didn't know what you meant. It's highly likely it's their old line, very akin to Blackhawk selling their old high end carbon steel Q.D. line as an economy "Black Enamel" line at the same time as they're selling alloy "Lock-on" as their new high end line, or Williams carbon Superior and alloy Superrench, and they gave it a catchy name. But it doesn't appear in the 1941, so we don't know when they introduced it. On the other end, it's not in the 1949, so we don't know, as far as I know, if they went back to it after the war, either.

It’s interesting that on these two sockets the center punch marks are only on one side of the size markings.

I have two Carb-O-Mang sets and none of the sockets have two dimples. They all have only one, always on the left.

 

[Outlawmws]

SGtime, you need to think how it was "back in the day" - It was common to infuse an alloy name into the tool names then. Were all "elegant"? No, but they did try to differentiate between what they sold vs. the older tools that galled and wore out pretty fast.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

a set of tools has the (very weird and personally offensive) word in it

Excuse my ignorance, but what word are you finding personally offensive, and why? Not a challenge. I really don't understand. If you'd rather not say, you can PM me.

I understand and don’t have any doubt that you are right but my point is that it seems silly (now) to name something that way.

I'm a vintage alloy junkie, so I could be biased, but I'm really not following you on this whole thing.

It was common to infuse an alloy name into the tool names then.

^ This is where I was going next. SK "Carb-O-Mang" is in the same category as Herbrand "Van-Chrome" or Billings "Vitalloy" or Bonney's "-ZENEL-", or even Armstrong's "HI-TENSILE", just a little more clever and less direct than Bridgeport's "Nickel Molybdenum", to name one of many more straight-up compositional brandings.

And by the way it's still being done. Several lines of import wrenches out there branded "Cr-V" (for chrome vanadium).

 

[Stillgottimefor1]

Chalk it up to my possible ocd, if a word doesn’t parse it becomes a sort of irritant like an itch. I like the other alloy names just fine, but MANG -. Not so much

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Oh. Okay, thanks. I thought you meant it had a connotation that was considered a slur in a culture I was not aware of.

 

[Stillgottimefor1]

Oh. Okay, thanks. I thought you meant it had a connotation that was considered a slur in a culture I was not aware of.

My father was in the Merchant Marine, and when I was very young he tried to show me the most useful and basic knot, which he called a Bolun. I wanted to know why it was called that and how to spell it and he didn’t know. Bothered me a LOT. Took me years to discover it was a Bowline, very important because you can untie it quickly and easily….

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Will not slip under load, but one tug when it's not under load and it's free. (Mine too!) Probably best we reminisce on a different thread some day, though, such as this one.

How to Make a Vintage Tow Rope

INTRODUCTION As I reported on the Garage Sale thread a week or so ago, I found this coil of 1-inch diameter manila rope. Whenever I find a coil of genuine 3-strand 1-inch diameter manila rope, I make as many WWII-spec tow ropes as I can out of it. If you’ve ever seen a WWII jeep at a car...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[Kdaniel8601]

The "Carb" in "Carb-O-Mang" is a reference to carbon, not carburetor. If that's what you're referring to there. According to the 1943 catalog, the "Carb-O-Mang" line included 1/4- and 1/2-inch drive tools, in various sets, in various size boxes. Not just midget, for ignition work. I have never seen anything other than midget sets, but as you can see, the decals wore off easily. They were shown in the back of the catalog, explicitly marketed as more affordable than the Chrome Alloy line in the front of the catalog. They are not included in the 1941 catalog.

Edit: no 3/8

According to Wikipedia the name for manganese steel is Mangalloy, I can now see how S-K came up with a name like Carb-O-Mang. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangalloy

 

[RTM]

Oh. Okay, thanks. I thought you meant it had a connotation that was considered a slur in a culture I was not aware of.

I read it as Mange, a disease of dogs, definitely a negative connotation.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

You read "Mang" without an "e" as mange instead of like clang or fang or hang etc? You guys are a tough crowd!

@Kdaniel861
I'm not sure that's the exact same chemistry as AISI 1340, but I will check it out. Herbrand used AISI 1340 during the war as well. A few others, too, but they proclaimed it with forged in marking.

 

[j0llycage]

I recently started collecting vintage S-K tools and have a couple questions about determining the age or era (i.e., early/mid/late run by S-K, S-K Lectrolite, S-K Wayne, or S-K Dresser) if anyone might be able to assist me...

First, I just picked these up today from a pawn shop after spending an hour digging through the socket bins. I have a number of other 1/4" drive knurled sockets, and these are the only ones I have that are stamped 'U.S.A.'. When did this change take place? Alloy artifacts really only goes into detail about the 1/2" drive stuff, and with those, the 'U.S.A.' stamp only appeared after the Wayne buyout, but shortly before the knurled sockets were discontinued. Do you suppose this would indicate that they're early Wayne era (just too small for a Wayne stamp), or was there a point when S-K/Lectrolite started stamping them this way?

Second, does the spacing of the 'S-K' on Dresser era sockets indicate a particular production run or age, or are these just inconsistencies during stamping? I know certain ones have horizontal fractional lines while others have diagonals, some have large 'S-K' stamps with tiny numbers while others are all tiny or all large font- which would certainly indicate different series, but these in particular are all small with the only difference being how smushed or spread the 'S-K' stamping is.

I know a while back, someone was trying to put together a pictorial timeline to identify age/era, but I couldn't find anywhere where it actually happened.

Anyway, thanks in advance for your help! I love learning the history behind my old tools!

 

[j0llycage]

These little S-K 1/4” drive knurled sockets arrived yesterday as part of a Barcalo trade. I find these two sizes the most difficult to find. Unfortunately, none of them are wartime.
-Don

Hard agree. I have about 15 loose knurled sockets I've scavenged from the flea market and pawnshops outside of a partial 4097 set with all the drive tools and box. The only one I don't have between the set and loosies is a 7/32".

I don't suppose you'd consider selling me one of those?

 

[Outlawmws]

Jolly, someone here probably has something better but this is my cobbled up list:

Major contract Hinsdale bankruptcy drive new tools business	S-K Tools - Boxes had this in a Diamond logo (TM 1932 until 57/58?)	early 1930s
Partnership?	SK Lectrolite	50's?
	S-K (No Tools)- Boxes had this in a Diamond logo	1958
Symington- Wayne	S-K Wayne	1962
Dresser buys Symington-Wayne	S-K	1969
FACOM	S-K	1985
Stanley	S-K	2005
Independent management buyout	SK? Some tools were without the dash…	2005
bankruptcy	S-K	23-Aug-10
Ideal	S-K	25-Aug-10

 

[Oldtuleguy]

That's a pretty good list considering the info we have to work with.

 

[j0llycage]

Jolly, someone here probably has something better but this is my cobbled up list:

Major contract Hinsdale bankruptcy drive new tools business	S-K Tools - Boxes had this in a Diamond logo (TM 1932 until 57/58?)	early 1930s
Partnership?	SK Lectrolite	50's?
	S-K (No Tools)- Boxes had this in a Diamond logo	1958
Symington- Wayne	S-K Wayne	1962
Dresser buys Symington-Wayne	S-K	1969
FACOM	S-K	1985
Stanley	S-K	2005
Independent management buyout	SK? Some tools were without the dash…	2005
bankruptcy	S-K	23-Aug-10
Ideal	S-K	25-Aug-10

It definitely gets super complicated, and I think to a certain extent, some are indestinguishable without records (I love the illustrations in the catalogs, but it would've been way easier for identification purposes if they had photos for the socket examples). The earliest boxes used a decal inside the box where the later pre-Wayne buyout boxes have a plaque riveted to the top (I've definitely seen more of those than the ones with the larger S-K Lectrolite decal). Dresser also had a number of variations on the socket stampings- S-K, S-K Tools, and later on S-dot-K (the dot being a larger outline of a circle, rather than a single point). The pre-Wayne drive tools (ratchets, extensions, swivel head breaker bars) also utilized the S-K diamond logo. I can easily go on about the minor variations I've observed in my personal collection, but I don't know how much good it'll do pointing out differences when I don't know the age.

Long story short, I was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder back in college and it's hit REALLY hard trying to complete a single matching set of vintage American Made sockets (this all started when I realized that the one thing pawn shops don't charge an arm and a leg for are loose tools). Initially I was just trying to put together a set of 1/4" and 3/8" 6 point G series Craftsman short sockets, but I realized some had upside right Gs and others were upside down. Then it took so long to find one or two that I decided to look for the 12 points as well... Which lead to trying to hunt down a G1 and G2 series, too...

At this point, I have no idea how many sets of Craftsman and S-K I've picked up, but they're almost all between 50% and 98% complete. Every damn set has one or two sockets that I haven't uncovered....

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Yup

 

[d42jeep]

Hard agree. I have about 15 loose knurled sockets I've scavenged from the flea market and pawnshops outside of a partial 4097 set with all the drive tools and box. The only one I don't have between the set and loosies is a 7/32".

I don't suppose you'd consider selling me one of those?

Just PM me your address and a 7/32” socket will be coming your way. Here is a picture I took today. Wartime complete sets on the left and pre or early war sets on the right.
-Don
edit—-Just remember that S-K catalog images are not to be trusted when trying to date your toolsets. They were terrible about updating their artwork to match what they were actually selling. They started marking their breaker bars and extensions immediately after WW2 and discontinued the water transfers in favor of riveted tags on the boxes.

 

[JjKk40]

Just PM me your address and a 7/32” socket will be coming your way. Here is a picture I took today. Wartime complete sets on the left and pre or early war sets on the right.
-Don
edit—-Just remember that S-K catalog images are not to be trusted when trying to date your toolsets. They were terrible about updating their artwork to match what they were actually selling. They started marking their breaker bars and extensions immediately after WW2 and discontinued the water transfers in favor of riveted tags on the boxes.

Did SK use the black boxes for the 1/4 drive sets during the war or were they pre ww2? And during the war did SK use black oxide finish as well as cadmium? I juat bought a set with a black crinkle finish, water transfer label, with black oxide finish on the tools.

 

[d42jeep]

S-K used black paint with the water transfers very early on for their sets.



They also used some “elephant hide” brown paint during the war, usually on larger carry boxes.
But the green is seen most often. That being said, I do have a wartime set that came in a black box so yours could be a black wartime box.
S-K sets definitely came with black oxide finishes as well as being cad plated. I personally prefer the black oxide finish sets, the darker the better!
-Don

 

[Username already in use]

@d42jeep That dark finished SK is the best!

Here's a couple of old SK carry boxes. One brown and one gray.

 

[genog]

At this point, I have no idea how many sets of Craftsman and S-K I've picked up, but they're almost all between 50% and 98% complete. Every damn set has one or two sockets that I haven't uncovered....

Same here. I have 6 vintage socket sets that I am trying to complete and I too am getting a bit frustrated trying to complete them.
Each set needs only one or two to be completed....
I don't have OCD, but it's driving me nuts

Anyway, found this at the Flea Market
The Picker Dude that I got this from occasionally comes up with S-K sets.

Kind of a mixed bag here

 

[j0llycage]

Same here. I have 6 vintage socket sets that I am trying to complete and I too am getting a bit frustrated trying to complete them.
Each set needs only one or two to be completed....
I don't have OCD, but it's driving me nuts

Anyway, found this at the Flea Market
The Picker Dude that I got this from occasionally comes up with S-K sets.

Kind of a mixed bag here

That's a great set- even if it's not 100% matching. I'll have to post photos of my full S-K collection soon! It's not the biggest, but I'm surprised how quickly it's grown in just a few months.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is a catalog listing of your set. I have one like it that I put together from an empty, rusty box I found on eBay in January of last year.
-Don
Here is the rusty box I started with.
I used plenty of evaporust on it and started adding sockets.
I masked off the emblem and repainted the box.I continued to add matching sockets and pull out ones that were too modern.Eventully, it came together with all 6 point deep sockets matching the illustration in the catalog.

 

[j0llycage]

Here is a catalog listing of your set. I have one like it that I put together from an empty, rusty box I found on eBay in January of last year.
-Don
Here is the rusty box I started with.
I used plenty of evaporust on it and started adding sockets.
I masked off the emblem and repainted the box.I continued to add matching sockets and pull out ones that were too modern.Eventully, it came together with all 6 point deep sockets matching the illustration in the catalog.

Beautifully done! What paint/color did you use?

I accidentally figured out how to add a crinkle on an old vise I restored (cured the paint in a toaster oven, then hit it with clear enamel before it had completely cooled). I wonder if I were to do this on an S-K toolbox, and then hit it with another coat of green and one more layer of clear (letting these coats cure naturally) if it'd come out looking close to their original crinkle S-K used...

 

[d42jeep]

This is a paint that Lugz and I have been using lately on WW2 toolboxes and I have found it to be a close match to the wartime S-K color. It comes from Midwest Military. The repro decals are from eBay seller jimenginedecals.
-Don

Here is an earlier post on this thread showing the paint. If you do a search on VHT wrinkle you will see some examples of that product used on old toolboxes.
-Don

 

[j0llycage]

Here is an earlier post on this thread showing the paint. If you do a search on VHT wrinkle you will see some examples of that product used on old toolboxes.
-Don

That looks like a spot-on color match to me! I saw a few threads elsewhere where people used a particular Rustoleum (I think it was in their hammered line?) that appears to have been discontinued. I'll definitely have to check out the Midwest Military stuff.

Also, that VHT Wrinkle Plus definitely looks pretty close in texture; I'll have to check if they produce a comparable green (or possibly use it as a base coat). Regardless, I'll definitely do some tests on non-vintage pieces first. I actually started building a small box-brake (12" capacity) to try and make some of my own trays/boxes for various sets, since the boxes with partitions or the socket-only trays are my favorite storage method.

 

[Username already in use]

I picked up this 3/4" drive 47170 ratchet. Black oxide, marked PAT PEND, and unmarked but clearly SK extension. Clearly wartime.
The 2 digit code on the ratchet in the snap ring access is 94.

 

[j0llycage]

I picked up this 3/4" drive 47170 ratchet. Black oxide, marked PAT PEND, and unmarked but clearly SK extension. Clearly wartime.
The 2 digit code on the ratchet in the snap ring access is 94.

That's awesome. I've been contemplating for weeks whether or not I should search for a 3/4" drive ratchet to complete the set, but considering I don't have any industrial-sized equipment to work on, it'd probably find more use taking out unwanted intruders than repairing machinery...

 

[j0llycage]

My little S-K family has grown significantly over the past few months.

Starting with the old [good] stuff:

The 1/2" set, no. 4015, has a temporary non-knurled 1-1/4" (the original set only went up to 1-1/8") and is missing the cross bar (but I've thrown in a period correct T-handle for the time being).

The 3/8" set, no. 4511, is missing the flex handle and cross bar (the universal joint is a Wayne, but the set didn't come with one anyway), and I've added an additional 6" extension.

The 1/4" set, no. 4098, is complete except for the 7/32" (it's a craftsman "Circle-H" for the time being). The universal joint is a Giller and the spinner handle is S-K Wayne (but again, this particular set wasn't sold with them, anyway).

The wrenches at the bottom are an S-K 7/16" 6 point, a 5/16" and 7mm 12 point Brazil, a Lectrolite 9/16" 12 point, and an S-K Lectrolite 7/16" 12 point. The two sockets between them are S-K era JCPenney (I just find that really neat).

The second photo shows all the Dresser era findings. The box set up top was recently gifted to me by my grandfather (along with a New Britain Husky knurled 1/2" set with an S-K ratchet), and is complete aside from the 3/8"x1/4" adapter (he had an Indestro Super in its place). I've also added a 3/8" drive 7/16" and a 6" 1/4" drive extension. The first and 3rd row below that are complete runs from the same era (S-K stamping) from 3/16"-1/2" for the 1/4" drive and 3/8"-7/8" for the 3/8" drive. Just below that are "S-K Tools" stamped, and below that are the later "easy read" style (with both "S-K" and "SdotK" stampings). The bottom row is a random smattering of the only metric S-K I have.

The final photo shows the handful of Wayne pieces I've accumulated, save for the spinner handle and universal joint in the first photo.

I probably have 15 or so duplicate Wayne/Dresser era sockets in a little box, and I have an additional set of diamond logo ratchets (1/4", 3/8", and 1/2"), but it didn't seem necessary to pull those out, too.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Nice sets j0lly!

I really do like S-K tools & boxes. I wish I found more. Seems like I have more empty boxes than tools and/or even parts of sets. May the tool gods begin to look favorably upon this poor old collector.

 

[j0llycage]

Nice sets j0lly!

I really do like S-K tools & boxes. I wish I found more. Seems like I have more empty boxes than tools and/or even parts of sets. May the tool gods begin to look favorably upon this poor old collector.

At this point, it seems I'm in the opposite boat! The knurled S-K and Metrics are definitely fewer and farther between, but all the sockets outside of the boxes (and a few inside them) were all acquired from socket bins at pawn shops and the flea market. Meanwhile, I had to ebay partial box sets to get the boxes. It's almost embarrassing to think about how much of my free time the last 3-4 months has been spent going through the same bins. They might not know my name, but they know exactly who I am when I walk in the door...

Truthfully, the only ones I'm completely tied to are the oldest sets and the Dresser set from my grandfather- I just pick up whatever series I can when I spot them, since a handful of sockets is a handful of sockets at the pawn shops around here... That's a half-truth. Two of the shops specifically look to see if you have Craftsman or Snap-on, but evidently have no idea what Plomb, S-K, Williams, Wright, or Proto are...

Anyway, I'll have to post more of the miscellany I've picked up- I've got a fair bit of spare 80s/90s Craftsman, the aforementioned S-K, some Wright and Proto, and a few loose guys that I just thought were interesting (USA made Montgomery Ward, a few Indestro, Par-X from Snap-on). Plus I've been passively picking up some of the earlier Fleet sockets simply because I dig the stylization of the name. If I have or find anything anyone is specifically looking for, I'm more than happy to help complete sets or add to collections!

 

[d42jeep]

This partial early postwar 1/4” drive set arrived in the mail today, missing (of course) the 3/16” and 7/32” sockets. I cleaned up the tools and box and added the missing pieces to complete the set. I specifically bought this set because it included the crossbar.
-Don

 

[j0llycage]

This partial early postwar 1/4” drive set arrived in the mail today, missing (of course) the 3/16” and 7/32” sockets. I cleaned up the tools and box and added the missing pieces to complete the set. I specifically bought this set because it included the crossbar.
-Don

If this was on eBay, I was definitely watching it