What buffer to buy?

[gtmorgan89]

I've been looking at buffers and reviews online for a week or two. Im going to purchase one soon. What are you guys using, or what would you recommend?

 

[rt dak]

Kind of vague. What kind of buffer? Bench top, dual action, rotary?

 

[gtmorgan89]

wups, that was vague. Im looking for a dual action orbital buffer for car finishes.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

Porter-Cable 7424 is the go-to DA for detailers on a lot of the car forums I'm on.

 

[gtmorgan89]

Porter-Cable 7424 is the go-to DA for detailers on a lot of the car forums I'm on.

yes I've read lots of good things about it. It and the Flex seem to be at the top of everyones list.

 

[Pro-Painter]

wups, that was vague. Im looking for a dual action orbital buffer for car finishes.

A DA orbital buffer is nothing more then a "compound applier". IMHO they are useless. They really don't do any more then you could do by hand. They may take some of the hand fatigue away, but thats about it. They wont restore old paint or bring a high gloss finish by them self. If that is what your looking to do, then you should conceder stepping up to a polisher.


But to answer your question, Stick with a name brand if you plan to use it alot. porter cable, Makita, etc. If your looking for one to use once a year to apply wax, check out the "value" brands such as GMC or Chicago electric.

 

[gtmorgan89]

A DA orbital buffer is nothing more then a "compound applier". IMHO they are useless. They really don't do any more then you could do by hand. They may take some of the hand fatigue away, but thats about it. They wont restore old paint or bring a high gloss finish by them self. If that is what your looking to do, then you should conceder stepping up to a polisher.


But to answer your question, Stick with a name brand if you plan to use it alot. porter cable, Makita, etc. If your looking for one to use once a year to apply wax, check out the "value" brands such as GMC or Chicago electric.

I am for sure looking for a polisher. Thanks

 

[Pro-Painter]

Polishers are the way to go to restore old paint. Almost all real (non autozone) compounds are meant for polishers. Check out the 3M Perfect-it paint finishing system video I posted below. It's a great, user friendly system.

The downside to polishers, they are very aggressive. It's easy to burn the paint, or remove too much clear coat. You will want to practice on a scrap hood/fender before you attack your car with one. But once you get the hang of it, (it's not that hard) they are fantastic.


Believe it or not, but the polisher from harbor freight is not a bad unit. I bought one just to get me by when my dynabrade died and have been using it as a back up ever since. For $34.99 it's hard to beat. The best polisher IMO is the Makita 9227CX3.

 

[Monte]

Flex or Festool or Fein

 

[David79z28]

I use two different buffers/polishers. A vector rotary for the compound and machine polish. A Porter Cable DA polisher for the swirl remover, glaze, sealer, and waxes.

 

[BJ42LX]

I have both the Porter Cable and the Flex. Both are quality units.*

The Flex is slightly more aggressive as it has a forced rotation feature, so there's always some circular movement where it's possible to "stall" the PC with moderate pressure.

Pro-Painter is correct. These units are for maintaining a finish, not rescuing one or buffing out new paint. It's all about using the right tool for the job.

The way I see it, you should probably only use a polisher once or twice in a paint job's lifespan. It removes so much material if you used it yearly your paint would be gone in a few years! The buffers, on the other hand, can be used as often as you like.

*My PC is about 12 years old and USA made - I don't know that the new ones are still made here.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

A DA orbital buffer is nothing more then a "compound applier". IMHO they are useless. They really don't do any more then you could do by hand. They may take some of the hand fatigue away, but thats about it. They wont restore old paint or bring a high gloss finish by them self. If that is what your looking to do, then you should conceder stepping up to a polisher.


But to answer your question, Stick with a name brand if you plan to use it alot. porter cable, Makita, etc. If your looking for one to use once a year to apply wax, check out the "value" brands such as GMC or Chicago electric.

That "hand fatigue" and hand application bit is the whole reason to buy a DA buffer. They're great for compound cutting, buffing back up from having to wet-sand stuff, and the like. Sure, you need to use the right stuff (from pads to compounds to polishes) but for someone who is starting with an average-quality car and wants to make the paint look great (assuming it's not too badly oxidized or the like) they're an absolute requirement in the detail kit. No, it doesn't knock the wet-sanding step out when it's required, but it makes everything after that a hell of a lot easier.

Having hand-sanded, compounded, and polished a little bit myself, I'd never be without a DA again. It's nice to be able to switch pads and bonnets and go from ******** compounding after wet-sanding to final polish application.

 

[fr0mastaj]

I asked this very same question a few months ago and ended up getting the Flex 3401.

Thread:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101308

The good stuff:

I could not be happier, i used it with buff my sisters black car with Klasse all in one and she said she has never seen it that shiny, even new. I swear she washes the damn car with sandpaper. This is only my second time using this polisher (novice!), and this was my first and only pass on the car.

Before:

After:

Before:

After:

 

[fr0mastaj]

Also, I would recommend purchasing from Autogeek.net (no affiliation). That is where I bought all of my stuff and their customer service has been top notch.

 

[David79z28]

Also, I would recommend purchasing from Autogeek.net (no affiliation). That is where I bought all of my stuff and their customer service has been top notch.

+1 autogeek has a great forum and a great "How to section" as well...

 

[CamarosRus]

I'm a customer and fan of the www.detailedimage.com site.

I bought the Porter Cable 7424XP with a variety of Lakes Country foam pads.

I understand that the pros use the Makita rotary buffer, but by all accounts its much safer for amatuers to use the D/A buffers for correcting most defects.

 

[MattPersman]

I have heard a lot of good things and recommendations for the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital

 

[countryroad82]

The best polisher IMO is the Makita 9227CX3.

^^^^^^^^^ What he said, I have had mine since I started doing paint and body (going on 13 yrs +) and it has been one of my best investments. Over the years it is now starting to get a little tired but I am going to buy another of the same thing and use my old one as a backup. As Pro-Painter said practice on something you don't care about before you try your skills on a car you like, maybe offer to polish your boss's car if you plan on quitting soon

 

[RKA]

I've had the 7424, Flex DA and a metabo rotary. It does sound like you need a rotary initially, but the flex will thereafter help you maintain the paint. You get some fairly aggressive compounds and polishes that will help the Flex take a bite out of the paint, but the rotary is the better tool for the job (requiring some skill as well). Given how little the rotary would be used, I would get something inexpensive, which means harbor freight. Spend your money on the Flex 3401. I have only one gripe with this tool and that's the plastic gears behind their proprietary backing plate. Despite this it seems to be pretty durable tool, and if you're working with this for an extended period, a 1 lb weight savings will be appreciated. The porter cable was great for its time, when the only other option was a rotary, but today I wouldn't buy it (even considering the price difference between the flex and the pc, the flex is that much better).

 

[Rose1213]

Here is another one you might be interested in. This is the one I have and it's great!

http://www.meguiars.com/?logo-accessories/Meguiar's-Cordless-Orbital-Buffer

 

[darkk]

Griots has several nice choices...

 

[pl_silverado]

DeWalt DW849, theres a reason that every body shop i've ever been in has one. Its what i have also.

 

[JDM5LugHatch]

Check out Autopia http://www.autopia.org/forum/forum.php a lot of good info can be found there as well.

Seems all the pros I know use the Porter Cable or the Flex. Some still use a Cyclo but they've kinda gone the way of the Dinosaurs...

 

[JDM5LugHatch]

DeWalt DW849, theres a reason that every body shop i've ever been in has one. Its what i have also.

My experience is that Body shops can't detail to save their lives. Which has always made me

 

[NJHandyGuy]

truly in love with my variable speed dewalt hours of use every time and still like new

 

[NJHandyGuy]

My experience is that Body shops can't detail to save their lives. Which has always made me

while i agree with this it's hardly the sterile environment to do it

 

[pl_silverado]

My experience is that Body shops can't detail to save their lives. Which has always made me

detail, maybe not...but they should be pro's when it comes to paint correction and buffing cars, otherwise you should find another shop.

 

[RAYJAY]

A DA orbital buffer is nothing more then a "compound applier". IMHO they are useless. They really don't do any more then you could do by hand. They may take some of the hand fatigue away, but thats about it. They wont restore old paint or bring a high gloss finish by them self. If that is what your looking to do, then you should conceder stepping up to a polisher.


But to answer your question, Stick with a name brand if you plan to use it alot. porter cable, Makita, etc. If your looking for one to use once a year to apply wax, check out the "value" brands such as GMC or Chicago electric.

What crack are you smoking ???????? i do paint correction with a PC all the time, i only wheel a car when its needed.

a couple of good forums are

http://poorboysworld.net/board/index.php

http://www.autopiaforums.com/forums/

the autoia forum used to be called detail city , was a better forum at that time, but there is still great info to be had there, its not just the PC your buying its the foam pads , product and the how to that you need to learn ( I'm still learning to this day )

Jeff

 

[JDM5LugHatch]

What crack are you smoking ???????? i do paint correction with a PC all the time, i only wheel a car when its needed.

a couple of good forums are

http://poorboysworld.net/board/index.php

http://www.autopiaforums.com/forums/

the autoia forum used to be called detail city , was a better forum at that time, but there is still great info to be had there, its not just the PC your buying its the foam pads , product and the how to that you need to learn ( I'm still learning to this day )

Jeff

Actually detail city and autopia were 2 completely different forums that merged from what I remember. I was a member of both but only visited detail city a few times as I for some reason preferred Autopia. Regardless they were both very informative sites. Autopia was better before they got hacked and seemingly died down a bit.

 

[JDM5LugHatch]

while i agree with this it's hardly the sterile environment to do it

Not trying to start a debate or argument just kinda pointing out just because they use them doesn't mean it's the best. I have heard good things about the dewalt just notice more prefer the flex or pc's.

detail, maybe not...but they should be pro's when it comes to paint correction and buffing cars, otherwise you should find another shop.

I think it boils down to insurance claim shops vs. shops that specialize in paint/restorations. I also think their are several factors that come in to play. High volume, little to no experience, lack of proper or clean pads/products, and time... most shops aren't going to pay a guy for 8 hours to paint correct 1 car a day. That type of detailer is better off going solo so that leaves the shop with someone that can turn out 2-6 cars a day. Just something I have noticed throughout the years. Finding good body shops is harder than it seems. But I also may be overly picky when it comes to my cars.

 

[Pro-Painter]

What crack are you smoking ???????? i do paint correction with a PC all the time, i only wheel a car when its needed.


Jeff

If your using a DA buffer to cut & buff new paint, then you are working much to hard and slow. Seriously, Thats like using a combo wrench to remove lug nuts. A normal DA buffer will not remove sand scratches. They are not aggressive enough. A forced rotation style may be able to remove them, but it would be very slow going.




Most painters Ive met (including me) don't make real good detail men. I believe it's because they are too scared of fresh paint. That was my problem anyway.
The only time I polish myself is when color matching. I rarely ever polish new paint. I use a guy that is much better with a polisher then I am and he charges me fair. No need for me to take the risk.

Most collision repair shops have a detail man or a team of detailer's that do most the polishing work, and they are usualy not that great at it. The only painters Ive met that do 100% of their own polishing and are actually good at it, is restoration shops, and high end (custom) body shops.

I'm not saying they don't exist, but Ive never seen a collision repair shop that could detail worth a damn.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

If your using a DA buffer to cut & buff new paint, then you are working much to hard and slow. Seriously, Thats like using a combo wrench to remove lug nuts. A normal DA buffer will not remove sand scratches. They are not aggressive enough. A forced rotation style may be able to remove them, but it would be very slow going.

Right, but that's a completely different application than most DA buyers are going to be using them for; paint shop duty is one thing, but regular detailing work is different.

A good DA with the right foam pad and compound choice can remove fine wet-sanding marks during "clean-up detailing" (cars owned by people who think a straw broom works for scrubbing mud off), but I couldn't say anything about working with fresh paint. Experienced detail guys will use a rotary buffer quite often, but they still use DAs, and a rotary in the hands of an amateur is just asking to burn through clearcoat.

 

[Boiler]

If you're an ametuer get a DA to start with. A Flex will make much quicker work of it than the PC. And it still takes a while.

With my Flex I've corrected plenty carwash / wash abuse swirls & spiderwebs. You don't have to have a rotary to do that. The first time I used the flex, in about 4-5 hours I took my moms black Cadillac CTS from 95% spiderwebbed to about 5% spiderwebbed. It looked like a different car. Couple that with a coat of zaino and it almost was TOO shiny. Looked like mirrors in the sun instead of black.

The PC is about half the price, or less, than the FLEX but for $125 paid once to save a couple hours minimum per correction? Yes please. Its not just hourly rate. Holding the thing up and pushing on it for a long time can play hell on your shoulders. Hours of that are worth more than a few bucks.

 

[70chevellegsp]

If you're looking at a DA, the Griots seems to have better reviews on build quality along with power, which is important with a DA. Most will recommend going to 5-5.5" pads instead of the 6" that the PC unit comes with, although the Griots seems to do fine with the 6" pads. As far as the rotary goes, the unique thing about the Makita over the Dewalt is that the Makita has a speed setting of 600, where the Dewalt only goes down to 1000, along with the Makita being variable from 0-600. Whichever you choose to use, start with the least aggressive product and work your way down, so you don't make more work for yourself. Autogeek and Autopia are excellent sites for info.

 

[pipsters]

It's my understanding that the DA type units are more for minor small scratches and such, and for application of waxes and glazes. The PC7424XP and Flex 3401 are similar in operation, and the Flex will be faster only because you can apply more pressure, but they will both accomplish the same thing. However, if you are concerned about speed, a rotary polisher/buffer is what you should be looking at, as they are much much faster than even the Flex unit.

Keep in mind, the PC7424 was designed to slow down under pressure, Porter Cable could have designed a forced rotation unit like the Flex but that was not it's mission.

I've never used a rotary, but in all the videos I've seen, to burn the paint you have to STOP and let it sit, and most apply a ton of pressure. I don't know how realistic that is. Seems like they have a bad name that isn't really deserved.

Also, the PC can use smaller pads, like 4", which is what a lot of pros will use it for. I own the PC7424XP, I did consider the Flex 3401, but what I found is what I wrote above - use a rotary for correction and then finish up with the PC.

 

[jride200]

Maybe slightly off topic here, but there is a lot of knowledge in this thread... What niche, exactly, does the Cyclo polisher fall into?

I'm aware of these polishers through my aviation and airstream interests, and happened to come upon TWO of them at local pawn shops. Naturally, I snatched 'em up, for pennies on the dollar. Cyclo also makes a new model with electronic speed control, and I'm considering selling the two I have, to fund the purchase of this new model.

 

[ChrisStarks]

Makita or Dewalt is the only way to go. DA "buffers" are useless, except for homeowners applying waxes. I do restoration work, and use a Dewalt buffer with excellent results. Yes, a rotary buffer will destroy your paint if you're not careful, or have the speed too high. A buffer is like any other tool; learn to use it, or you will break ****! If you have a buffer that is designed to be slow, or not burn through clearcoat, then it will not be aggressive enough for heavy polishing jobs.
Never heard of a Flex buffer before this forum. Every detail guy/paint shop/restoration shop I've been to or worked with has used Makita/Dewalt polishers.
Again, this is my opinion. I'm sure there will be several homeowners/amateurs/internet mechanics that will disagree.

 

[RKA]

Every detail guy/paint shop/restoration shop I've been to or worked with has used Makita/Dewalt polishers.
Again, this is my opinion. I'm sure there will be several homeowners/amateurs/internet mechanics that will disagree.

That's because they are relatively cheap, can level paint very fast, last forever and it's easy to replace the brushes after 200 hours of service. Time is money. As your snide comment infers, the enthusiast market has slightly different priorities/needs and that doesn't necessarily make their tool of choice inferior. A forced rotation DA machine is very capable using the right pad and doesn't require the learning curve of a rotary. It's not a replacement for a rotary, it all depends on what you need to accomplish.

FWIW, most of the "professionals" (detailers included) that have touched my cars over the years have used a rotary, and in almost every instance they have left hologramming on my cars which I have to correct. I've come to expect it when I send my car in for body work. So the tools of choice for the "professionals" isn't a terriby big sell when I'm the guy fixing their mistakes.

 

[pl_silverado]

FWIW, most of the "professionals" (detailers included) that have touched my cars over the years have used a rotary, and in almost every instance they have left hologramming on my cars which I have to correct. I've come to expect it when I send my car in for body work. So the tools of choice for the "professionals" isn't a terriby big sell when I'm the guy fixing their mistakes.

If thats the case, i would find another place to send your car to get it worked on, since clearly they are not professionals.

 

[sgrammel]

yes I've read lots of good things about it. It and the Flex seem to be at the top of everyones list.

I think you have your own answer...Unless you are skilled and experienced stay away from the rotary...If you paint is super bad, you might need one, but if its a maintenance thing...Flex or PC is your best bet