who makes "D" sockets?

[tlowery04]

I remember there was a post tht summed up who they were and what years they were made but I can't seem to find it.

 

[HubbaBubba]

Duro

 

[d42jeep]

They are actually called D-I sockets and they were made by Duro Metal Products during WW2. It is commonly thought that the D-I stands for Duro-Indestro and most of the brand has either Cad plating or are plain steel finish since they were made during wartime metal restrictions. I have quite a large collection of them in my WW2 toolsets.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

^ spot on. lists below thanks to Private Lugnutz:



* no idea what the notations are about. (presumably Lugnutz's notes)
* DC = "Duro Chrome"
* the 4500-series part numbers are Duro Chrome
* the 2800-series part numbers are Indestro

most of those I've seen (and all the ones I own) are black finish.

you can download the 1935 and 1939 Duro Chrome catalogs at ToolArchives.com

* SK = SK Tool (Sherman-Klove)
* SW = Stevens Walden (Walden Worcester)
* NB = New Britain Machine

 

[Username already in use]

Nice socket. As stated above, Duro Metals made your socket. The *** banded knurling makes it early war transitional before they went to the llll knurling on the sockets.
Here's a few other examples, Duro, D-I, Chromium Vanadium.

Here's a set that I own, all D-I marked 1/2in drive 12 point.

 

[d42jeep]

Username's nice complete set is plain steel, mine are mostly Cad plated.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

* no idea what the notations are about. (presumably Lugnutz's notes)

Boy, that old incomplete worksheet really makes the rounds!

There is actually a very funny, crazy story associated with this worksheet, which is indeed mine, and those notations, which are not!

Here's the background....

I posted that worksheet on a different website devoted strictly to Jeep and other wartime tools, such as the GMTK, which has a 1/2-inch drive and a 1/4-inch drive socket set. The table correlates sockets from various Mfgrs which are known Ordnance Dept suppliers by model number on the right to the specifications (sizes, number of points, Federal Stock Numbers) on the left. This was more of a chore (a PITFA, actually!) than the chart makes it seem, because the early manuals did not specify the sockets at the socket level, and the socket set changed in contents (number and sizes/points of sockets!) three times before the war was over. It required analysis of the figures in the manuals, catalogs showing how these sets were generally offered, and extrapolation from the late war manuals, which did specify the set at the individual piece level.

The names you see in some of the columns - Silly and Cliff - are friends and fellow collectors, who own those particular sets, and contributed the data in those columns. All the other sets are mine. Don and UNAIU were not yet involved in our crazy addiction, er, hobby, at that time, or their names would just as likely be equally world famous as Silly's and Cliff's.

And here's the crazy, funny part.

You kindly tipped me off in a PM about an eBay sale of a WWII military midget socket set, because you knew of my interest in WWII tools.

The set turned out to be a Randolph Tool Equipment Corporation (R.T.E.C.) set with some R.T.E.C. electrical wrenches, R.T.E.C. mini pliers, and some Walden-Worcester 1/4-inch sockets (I don't think R.T.E.C. was capable of making them), in an R.T.E.C. metal box.

You had no possible way of knowing this, but I had been looking for R.T.E.C. stuff forever, as I have a few electrical wrenches.
Weird Synchronicity Event #1!

When I went deeper into the eBay ad, I soon discovered that one of the photos the seller was using to demonstrate the provenance of the sockets in the set he had up for auction was - you've probably seen this coming - the worksheet that you posted above! My worksheet! The seller obviously downloaded it and annotated it with a pen and highliter.
Weird Synchronicity Event #2!

I never even told the seller. I bid for the set and won. And when it arrived, guess what was in the box? That's right - a printout of my own danged worksheet! :

I think it's safe to say that is the first AND LAST time I will ever buy something on eBay and have the seller send me something that I already own!

 

[four.cycle]

Well... I certainly appreciate learning the provenance on that chart, which has indeed "made the rounds".
It is quite possible that your Ebay seller got that chart from me, because I've sent it out dozens of times to various Ebay sellers who obviously weren't aware of what they had.

I vaguely recall the brief back-and-forth with you on the RTEC stuff - they made radio parts or something in New Jersey?

On a completely unrelated note:

I recall telling you that I had acquired a small Duro Chrome 1/4" drive set from an Ebay seller that I believe to be equivalent to the Duro Chrome #4502 set. It's been so long ago that I cannot recall now for certain, but I believe they're marked "D I" as well.
The "chart" above makes no mention of ratchets or drive accessories. Other than the standard breaker and cross bar, would those Duro-made sets (in the context of "WWII military kits") contained any other pieces like extensions, universal joints, or ratchets?
(According to the old Duro Chrome catalog, what I got contained everything shown in the catalog that made up the #4502 set.)



And taking this even farther off-track, since you three gentlemen seem to be far more well-versed on this stuff than I am:

I cobbled together an old 1/4" drive Walden-Worcester set (not Stevens Walden), all plain steel finish, with sockets from 3/16" - 7/16" and a breaker.
Would that Walden set (again, in the context of "WWII military kits") have contained any drive accessories other than the breaker and cross bar?
It seems to be equivalent to the "Migit" set shown in a 1944 Motor Service magazine advertisement, but contains a spinner with a clear yellow handle.
In an Ebay ad some time back, a seller in the UK had one listed that included a spinner with a black and yellow handle (resembling the one shown in the 1944 ad.)
Both of my Stevens-Walden (chrome) 1/4" sets include spinners with red handles. I have a green handled spinner on the way from Chicago right now (which I believe to be of later vintage, but that's just a wild guess.)
So my question is: which is the period-correct spinner for that old plain-steel Walden-Worcester set? The yellow-and-black model? (I think d42jeep posted a photo of one somewhere just a while back.)



And for those who might be curious, here's the URL for that RTEC kit mentioned above:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ran...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

edit again: Lugnutz - I am still awaiting delivery on some of the pieces for that WW set mentioned above. It's possible I may end up with an extra 3108 - not sure on that yet until I get it all together. From that Ebay ad it looks as though you might be missing that one.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The "chart" above makes no mention of ratchets or drive accessories. Other than the standard breaker and cross bar, would those Duro-made sets contained any other pieces like extensions, universal joints, or ratchets?

Yeah I was just concentrating on the sockets in that one. The handles specified for the set also changed as the war progressed. Late war, the only handles specified were a spinner and a hinged handle. No ratchet. No extensions. Early to mid war, the set also had a ratchet, two extensions, and a sliding tee.

I cobbled together an old 1/4" drive Walden-Worcester set (not Stevens Walden)

The wartime sets were Walden-Worcester, mainly black oxide. I refer to the set as SW (Stevens-Walden) in the chart because the pieces were provided in a metal case marked Stevens-Walden on the lid with a Federal Stock Number.

Here is a late war set...

The driver is marked SPINTITE, WALDEN, and 3118 on top of each other, in that order, lengthwise on the shaft.

The flex head is marked “. . . . 3117 WALDEN . . . .” with those dots on each side centered in the middle of the text (can’t do that on the keyboard), around the shaft.

Left to right:

3161, 8 pt., 3/8, marked, “. . . . 3161 WALDEN 3-8 . . . .“(again, with those dots being centered in the middle of the text
3114, 12 pt., 7/16, marked, “. . . . 3114 WALDEN 7-16 . . . . ”
3112, 12 pt., 3/8, marked, “3112 WALDEN 3-8” over “U.S.A.”
3160, 8 pt., 5/16, marked, “3160 WALDEN 5-16”
3111, 12 pt., 11/32, marked, “3111 WARDEN WORCESTER 11/32” over “MADE IN U.S.A.”
3110, 6 pt., 5/16, marked, “3110 WALDEN WORCESTER 5/16” over “MADE IN U.S.A.”
3159, 8 pt., 1/4, marked, “3159 WALDEN WORCESTER 1/4” over “MADE IN U.S.A.”
3109, 6 pt., 9/32, marked, “3109 WALDEN 9-32”
3108, 6 pt. 1/ 4, unmarked
3107, 6 pt., 7/32, marked, “3107 WALDEN WORCESTER 7/32” over “MADE IN U.S.A.”
3106, 6 pt., 3/16, marked, “3106 WALDEN 3/16”

EDIT: I am sure that UNAIU or Don, who have at least three more of everything that I have, will be happy to post additional sets and info, likely with the other handles and extensions.

 

[four.cycle]

Private Lugnutz (and others) please see my post HERE:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6101514#post6101514

My set isn't as "black" as what you show above. More along the "plain steel finish" line.
This spinner is marked exactly as you describe above.
Interesting that you have a couple sockets stamped just "WALDEN" and not "Walden Worcester". I believe I have a 3110 5/16" on the way that is stamped just "WALDEN".
It appears I'm missing the 3159 1/4" 8-point from this set.

Walden Worcester (Stevens Walden) "Migit" 1/4" drive socket set 01 by four.cycle, on Flickr

Walden Worcester (Stevens Walden) "Migit" 1/4" drive socket set 02 by four.cycle, on Flickr

Walden Worcester (Stevens Walden) "Migit" 1/4" drive socket set 03 by four.cycle, on Flickr

Walden Worcester (Stevens Walden) "Migit" 1/4" drive socket set 04 by four.cycle, on Flickr

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That is a gorgeous set, Four. I agree that the steel looks natural. I would not hesitate to call that wartime. Or possibly just before or after based on the box. Plomb went green during the war, too, even though all their boxes were red prior and after and also in the catalogs.

 

[four.cycle]

^ That's another point of interest: red box/green box.

Both of my Stevens-Walden (chrome) 1/4" sets are in green boxes. Both came with red spinners. One of them is in new condition (clearly never used.) (Photos posted in one of the "Walden" threads HERE: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5707142#post5707142 )
The one above came in a red box. I also have an empty red box (in much better condition than the one above.) Unfortunately the 1944 Motor Service advertisement is in black and white, so there's no way to tell what color it might have been.
Most of the sets I see listed on Ebay are in red boxes.

So... I take it as reasonable to assume it's of "wartime vintage", give or take a few years either way, correct?

Looking at my Ebay "purchases" page, it appears I'm still awaiting delivery on three more batches of stuff to complete the set (or replace the pieces with the grinder marks.)

It should be evident I'm a bit out of my league here - still a rookie at this "collector" stuff.

 

[d42jeep]

At the risk of venturing off topic, I'll post a couple of pictures of two of my Walden sets. I'll throw in a D-I set as a nod to the original topic. The first set is an early cad plated set with a refrigeration type ratchet. The second set is a later dark finish set with a more conventional reversing ratchet. The last set is a D-I 1/4' drive set
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

"At the risk of venturing off topic..."

Well... I think it's a bit late to be worrying about that at this point.

^THAT is the spinner I was talking about - which looks like the one in the 1944 Motor Service advertisement.
I saw a set with one of those listed on Ebay, but the seller was in the UK and said he wouldn't ship to the US or it would be mine now.

So... the black ratchet in the second Walden set: is that a model 3150 ??

I can't see much of the ratchet in the cad-plated Walden set, but it appears to be different (the "refrigeration" ratchet.)

 

[d42jeep]

It is a 3150 Ratchet. I'll post a picture of the early non-reversing ratchet. They came with a 1/4" plug. The box with the Federal Stock Number on the lid is thought by many to be WW2 correct.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

Thanks!
So they did make an earlier (black) version of the 3150 reversible model then - that answers that question.
Interestingly, your box appears to be black.
Hopefully at some point somebody will come up with some old SW catalogs so all of this isn't a guessing game!

 

[Username already in use]

EDIT: I am sure that UNAIU or Don, who have at least three more of everything that I have, will be happy to post additional sets and info, likely with the other handles and extensions.

I don't know what you're talking about Lugz..

Here's my best set. Not the best pic, but everything is Walden.

 

[four.cycle]

looks like I'm still looking for a few pieces.

 

[d42jeep]

In case you have an interest in collecting WW2 tools, Username, Twertsy and I have posted pictures on Twertsy's site of almost every tool for the GMTK (General Mechanics Tool Kit) and it has many images of the tools from Walden and other brands of 1/4" drive. They are listed here.
http://toolarchives.com/node/2798
-Don

 

[Username already in use]

We can put this thread back on track with some midget D-I sockets.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

looks like I'm still looking for a few pieces.

That depends on your objective, four-cycle.

Not to be pedantic, as I am sure you know that every Mfgr offered several midget sets in various numbers and combinations of pieces. For every Plvmb 4700R, Bonney V52 and < S-K > 4098, there was a Plvmb 4700F, Bonney V50, and < S-K > 4097. More is not necessarily always better.

There was a time when I considered my set incomplete, mainly because the only manuals we had access to were early war, showing extensions, a ratchet, a bar, and a sliding tee in addition to the flex head and spinner. Then we started realizing that some of the boxes (Snap-On, some of the Duro boxes, SK, etc) would not even hold all those handles, and eventually we found the late war manuals, revealing that there were only two handles - the flex head and the spinner.

What’s interesting about yours is that it seems to be almost exactly the same as mine – except for the red case. Give that my set matches the 1945 US Army specifications, I consider it a late war set. Given the matching contents, yours may be the same set, just a hair post-war.

Long way of saying that set may be complete as is, especially if you found or acquired it together.

 

[four.cycle]

Point well taken - poring through the old Indestro catalogs (and recalling writing purchase orders for various brands of socket sets and wrench sets) I've seen very minor differences in various "sets". You could get 5-piece, 6-piece, 8-piece wrench sets, or 10-piece, 12-piece, or 14-piece socket sets, and in almost every instance the differences were fairly minor.
A good example is that 4502 Duro set I mentioned above: according to the catalog, the only things it contained were the sockets, a breaker, and the cross-bar - no extensions, no sliding t-bar, no ratchet. The 1939 catalog shows three other options: a 14-piece, a 15-piece, and a 19-piece, all packed into the same box.
Where I start going down the proverbial rabbit hole is with brands I don't know (and don't have old catalogs to refer to) like Walden.

 

[d42jeep]

You may find this old ad interesting. I have no idea when it was printed. I am adding a couple more D-I socket pictures as well.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

^ looks very similar to the 1944 ad I posted on the previous page.
That Duro set looks exactly like mine, but mine's in a box with black "wrinkle-finish" paint.

how come Indestro didn't have a cute mascot like Duro?

 

[tlowery04]

so, were sets back in the day a mix of 6-8-12 pts? the two i have are 5/16 and 1/4 12 pt. just wondering how many came in the set and with what drivers. I used to find walden and D-I sockets all the time, but I think we sold them all in a bulk lot at a garage sale years ago, favoring craftsman as our single brand set of american made tools. I still may have a few kicking around though. I used to buy sockets in bulk at the pawn shops when I was in college.

 

[four.cycle]

^ Depends upon the manufacturer and age.

Most of the early (EARLY) sets came with:
3/16, 7/32, 1/4, 9/32, 5/16, 11/32, 3/8, 7/16 (6-pt, 12-pt, or a mix of 6 and 12-pt)
some did not include the 3/16 and started at 7/32
some included a 1/2 (not all)
some included all 6-points
some included a mix of 6-points (generally up to 9/32) and 12-points (5/16 to 7/16 or 1/2)

Most of the early (EARLY) sets came with:
1/4, 5/16, 3/8 8-points (not all)

At some point the inclusion of a 1/2" (6-pt or 12-pt) became more common.
At some point the exclusion of the 8-point sockets became the norm.

Again, there are no constants on this one. You would have to pore through vintage catalogs to get a better picture of what each manufacturer was doing.
There are all kinds of older tool catalogs you can download at ToolArchives.com - check that out as a reference source.

 

[d42jeep]

The only sets that came with the D-I socket in your original post that I have run across are these sets with both 1/2" and 3/8" sockets and several other drive tools. These come up for sale occasionally.
-Don

 

[Username already in use]

The only sets that came with the D-I socket in your original post that I have run across are these sets with both 1/2" and 3/8" sockets and several other drive tools.

Show-off...
Those are nice Duro sets. I have a smaller type set that came with only the 1/2" drive stuff. I think there's supposed to be a short type speeder in the box as well, but I'm not 100%.

 

[d42jeep]

Between us, we seem to have quite a few D-I sockets. They seem to have offered them in many different sets. Here is another smaller set in a box marked Indestro next to a Duro marked set.
-Don