Why does Snap-On continuously make people rage?

[garfunkle24]

Timex still makes a pretty accurate watch, Rolex is better as far as intricacy and a status symbol for sure. They both get the job done and some people have both.

Well actually the Timex will be orders of magnitude more accurate than the Rolex. I love fine watches for the workmanship, precision and fine machining but a $5 quartz is more accurate. I'm pretty sure 99.9% of high end watches are bought as status symbols and nothing more.

 

[CGarage]

Some of us have dealt with significant debt in business before and find the idea of borrowing money for something that (if we got past the branding) we could own instead, well, that's just hard to watch.

Experienced, successful adults paying cash for Snap-On - sure, nothing but admiration there. They appear to be awesome tools and would be proud to have them!

But a brand new tech, borrowing money they shouldn't because they were "influenced" by others - that's just frustrating to watch...

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." Older folks try to help with hard earned wisdom and advice, but what can you do?

There is a large movie franchise called “Fast and Furious”. It involves young adults with Japanese cars, I believe sometimes called “ricers” in the US. I believe Snap-On paid handsomely to have their tool boxes shown off, particularly to influence the younger generation, in this movie series. They even “shouted it out”.

 

[CGarage]

Well actually the Timex will be orders of magnitude more accurate than the Rolex. I love fine watches for the workmanship, precision and fine machining but a $5 quartz is more accurate. I'm pretty sure 99.9% of high end watches are bought as status symbols and nothing more.

This is true. The quartz invention brought about massive fear in Switzerland when first introduced to the market and there was major concern of the quartz phenomenon spelling the end to the Swiss mechanical watch. This didn’t prove true. That said, as a hobbyist, I have used the best Swiss made test equipment available to measure the accuracy and time keeping ability of some of the most expensive watches one could imagine, and many do not even meet the Swiss regulatory standards needed for COSC certification. And I am speaking of brands far and away more exclusive than even the ‘holy trinity’ brands, which all performed poorly from my hobbyist testing.

Nowadays, the Smart Watch is really changing the landscape of watchmaking, not only in Switzerland, but abroad. Germany, Italy, France, UK, Japan, US, China, and several other countries are experiencing a resurgence in interest in indigenous watch production, and this will bring about more innovation, options, and market competition.

 

[thool]

Again, I honestly think it has much more to do with confirmation bias and belief perseverance than reality.
Our minds play weird tricks on us.
A University of Michigan study concluded that people holding onto deep-seated belief systems, when presented empirical evidence that conflicted with their beliefs, became more resolute in their belief systems - completely rejecting the evidence presented to them.
The same is true with tools as much as it is with politics or religion.

Without attracting additional attention, I'll simply bold this part.

 

[rust in the eye]

Honestly I could care less if someone has Snap-on or not lol. I say buy whatever works for you and I’ll buy what works for me. I have some and some things I just won’t buy from them. I’ve worked with Snap-on snobs though that think if it’s not Snap-on than it’s not good. Like I once had someone ask to borrow a wrench handed them a Craftsman USA wrench and they threw it down and told me to get that consumer grade **** out of a professional shop and walked over and got theirs. Sure Snap-on and other tool trucks is convenient but you don’t need them for everything.

Oh boy, would I love to have the opportunity to nit pick that *******'s "professional" work.

 

[AEAdam]

There is a large movie franchise called “Fast and Furious”. It involves young adults with Japanese cars, I believe sometimes called “ricers” in the US. I believe Snap-On paid handsomely to have their tool boxes shown off, particularly to influence the younger generation, in this movie series. They even “shouted it out”.

What exactly is your point? Pretty much EVERY brand name or logo you see in a movie was put there at the expense of that brand. Product placement is nothing new. The US Military does it!

 

[rust in the eye]

Devil's advocate: Craftsman raised panel wrenches are low performers. Their open ends are notoriously bad and this is widely known.

I'm sure we've all worked with someone purporting to do pro grade work but due to their tools, couldn't deliver. As a part time carpenter, I don't really want to share my chisels or knives with someone who didn't care enough to buy good quality and maintain them. I'm shocked by how often my subs need to borrow my tools to do their work.

I think the coworker's reaction was unprofessional. But there could be more to this story. There are circumstances I could imagine where this would not be outrageous behavior.

I can't think of any. This is tantamount to asking for sip of water from someone in the desert then refusing because it ain't Perrier.
! This reminds of another ungratefull ******* I once tried to help. As a young buck I was a gearhead as were many of my friends. We mostly drove what is now called "muscle cars" mostly hot rodded versions. A certain guy had a hot Nova with a big block Chevy equipped with a tunnel ram intake and dual Holley carbs. That thirsty engine left him stranded as Mr too good for you(me) had run out of fuel. I spotted him on the side of the road so stopped to help. Informed he was just out of gas I volunteered to fetch some. Having only a small metal can intended for the lawn mower at home I went to the gas station, filled it(at my expense) and returned to the scene. Seeing the little gas can he shouts "What am I supposed to do with that? Prime the carburetors?" I should have told him what to do with my measly couple of gallons but didn't. I still regret not telling him off. What an *******.

 

[CGarage]

What exactly is your point? Pretty much EVERY brand name or logo you see in a movie was put there at the expense of that brand. Product placement is nothing new. The US Military does it!

Did you see the previous post which I quoted?

This statement, in particular, regarding young techs taking on a lot of debt to have the cool tools?

“But a brand new tech, borrowing money they shouldn't because they were "influenced" by others - that's just frustrating to watch...”

 

[dchawk81]

In the meantime, 99% of the world has no idea anything in this thread is happening.

 

[CGarage]

In the meantime, 99% of the world has no idea anything in this thread is happening.

Agreed, which is a major problem.
I feel the same as regards the current situation in the west, where 99% of the world has no idea what is happening, and the levels of manipulation the citizens are experiencing.

 

[Spacebar]

Some of us don't think the premium charged on premium items is proportionate to the incremental value.

As a result, we feel insulted by the fanbois that need to reinforce their choice by constantly showing off.

It's not just Snap-On, go on any hobby forum. There is always the outrageously priced premium "whatever" that has a ********* group of fanbois. guns, knives, speakers, food dehydrators, vacuum's, coffee makers, motorcycles, computers, phones, etc.

Olights cough cough. Good lights, but proprietary batteries are never good in products. There's also just far cheaper lights that are objectively better.

 

[CGarage]

Olights cough cough. Good lights, but proprietary batteries are never good in products. There's also just far cheaper lights that are objectively better.

Proprietary parts are good for making money for the manufacturer.

 

[AEAdam]

Did you see the previous post which I quoted?

No, sorry I think I missed it.
Sorry I misunderstood you.

 

[CGarage]

No, sorry I think I missed it.
Sorry I misunderstood you.

No worries, I was providing supporting context and I agreed with the prior poster whom I quoted.

 

[dchawk81]

Agreed, which is a major problem.
I feel the same as regards the current situation in the west, where 99% of the world has no idea what is happening, and the levels of manipulation the citizens are experiencing.

How is it a major problem that most of the world is blissfully unaware of Snapon spats?

 

[seber]

Well actually the Timex will be orders of magnitude more accurate than the Rolex. I love fine watches for the workmanship, precision and fine machining but a $5 quartz is more accurate. I'm pretty sure 99.9% of high end watches are bought as status symbols and nothing more.

I think you would be correct in the case of Rolex or Patek Phillipe, but for all other luxury brands, I don't think so. I've been wearing the same Omega Constellation since 1971. In all those years, only two people have noticed. One was a watch collector. The other was a lawyer. I wear my watch because I love it. I love fact there are all those precision parts working in perfect harmony. I smile a little every time I look at it.

 

[CGarage]

How is it a major problem that most of the world is blissfully unaware of Snapon spats?

I was not referring to Snap-On spats!

 

[dchawk81]

I was not referring to Snap-On spats!

Well I was. Because that's literally this thread.

 

[CGarage]

Well I was. Because that's literally this thread.

I thought you were (intelligently) referring to something far beyond this Snap-On stupidity.

 

[AEAdam]

We talk about Snap On tools like they are an extravagance like a wrist watch or fancy dress shoes, only for rich people like yachts or private jets. We need to keep our perspective.

I probably spend more on coffee in a month than a new SO ratchet costs. I could have easily bought a nice socket set for the money I spent on parking in a few days in Seattle last summer.

We make out like there’s a class divide or SO tools are for private island people.

 

[65k10]

@AEAdam -
I had a rather lengthy post all typed out in response to one of your statements above, but chose to not post it.
The thread title, again, is "why-does-snap-on-continuously-make-people-rage".

I'm in the camp of "a good carpenter doesn't blame his tools".
I'm not "raging" about anything - let alone raging about Snap-on.

What I DID say was that it becomes annoying - tiresome - to hear the same mantra repeated over and over that is at polar opposites of the reality I experience in real life.
And when I hand my buddy a SKT05301 Tekton 1/4" drive socket set (because he didn't own any 1/4" drive metric deep-wells) and he effectively parks his little Snap-on kit, I have to wonder why he would do that. He says "convenience" (because of the snazzy blow-mold box.)(I hate blow-mold boxes, FTR.) He's happy with the TOOLS. Go figure.

Again, I honestly think it has much more to do with confirmation bias and belief perseverance than reality.
Our minds play weird tricks on us.
A University of Michigan study concluded that people holding onto deep-seated belief systems, when presented empirical evidence that conflicted with their beliefs, became more resolute in their belief systems - completely rejecting the evidence presented to them.
The same is true with tools as much as it is with politics or religion.

That right there probably describes much of my annoyance when it comes to the discourse around Snap-On.

I have a number of Snap-On tools and while generally I can see the edge they have compared to other tool brands, sometimes the difference is not that great and a lesser viewed brand got the job done with no fuss. Other times the Snap-On did edge out others. One example being seeing how a 3/4 Carlyle non-slip wrench open end did not grip a nut well enough while a flank drive plus wrench could. Of course my Wright grip wrench did just fine too.

Then there's an instance I can think of where Snap-On fell short. I was trying to break a fastener loose in a confined area with my SHLF80a, but couldn't since the handle deflected too much before running out of room. Before breaking out a 3/4 ratchet, I thought I'd give this beat up Matco CFR248lft I got off Ebay a shot. The Matco was able to break the fastener loose with little issue. Why could the Matco succeed where Snap-On failed? The Matco was made back when Armstrong made their ratchets and one thing they did with the design was make the handle so it was thick near the head, but tapered down towards the handle. This made for a stiffer ratchet handle without too much excess weight.

The point of this story is that after hearing all of the praise placed on Snap-On and being mostly impressed with their tools, I was a bit disappointed that the Snap-On ratchet let me down while the Matco seemed to have a better design that got the job done. Generally I do think Snap-On is at the top when it comes to tools, but once in a while I run into products of their that fall short and a person gets a bit miffed to hear the folks declaring that Snap-On tools are perfection and only they can get the job done when my personal experience has not matched that.

 

[dchawk81]

We talk about Snap On tools like they are an extravagance like a wrist watch or fancy dress shoes, only for rich people like yachts or private jets. We need to keep our perspective.

I probably spend more on coffee in a month than a new SO ratchet costs. I could have easily bought a nice socket set for the money I spent on parking in a few days in Seattle last summer.

We make out like there’s a class divide or SO tools are for private island people.

Not me I buy an $8 tub of Folgers and it goes for like 3 months. Maybe more.

 

[CGarage]

Not me I buy an $8 tub of Folgers and it goes for like 3 months. Maybe more.

Life is too short to drink Folgers!

 

[CGarage]

Is it ignorance or jealously or what? Every time I come across a YouTube short or FB reel about a Snap-On product there is like so much rage against it it's almost comical. It's like the person has to tell everyone that harbor freight is cheaper for the "exact same product" lol. It's like oh thanks for the info I didn't know they existed (but I knew snapon did).

As to the original intent of the thread, I have only witnessed this ‘green eyes’ for tools amongst young techs just starting out who don’t have much of anything. I have only seen this in passing while walking through a mechanic’s shop while talking to my mechanic, who is experienced with a large tool collection. Likely it was a lube tech looking fondly on to the collection of a seasoned hand.

I like the Matco / GW locking flex heads more than any SO ratchet. My personal opinion.

There are some excellent SO tools, but I think it is more respectable to have a collection reflecting the excellent products made by the many brands, rather than just one brand.

 

[AEAdam]

Life is too short to drink Folgers!

I’d sooner give up coffee altogether than drink 3 month old Folgers.

 

[CGarage]

I’d sooner give up coffee altogether than drink 3 month old Folgers.

I am a fellow coffee and tea addict myself and spend similar amounts, the worst being the Starbucks habit a few times a day, but trying to give my business to more independently owned coffee shops instead of Starbucks.

 

[RichRiddle]

Rage seems to be the flavor of the decade.....almost an endless supply of angry people in the world. If you think Snap On causes rage then mention the name "Saw Stop" in the woodworking community. People tend to harbor a lot of rage in our society; ultimately rage impacts those who possess the rage in many more ways than it impacts others.... Often people possess rage over rather insignificant things.

 

[dchawk81]

I’d sooner give up coffee altogether than drink 3 month old Folgers.

I've tried more expensive coffees and they made no difference to me. So I went back to the cheap stuff.

I'm glad I don't have a coffee habit that costs me much. It's just a wake up habit for me more than anything.

 

[dchawk81]

I am a fellow coffee and tea addict myself and spend similar amounts, the worst being the Starbucks habit a few times a day, but trying to give my business to more independently owned coffee shops instead of Starbucks.

No way in hell would I have the time or financial inclination to blow money at a coffee shop daily.

 

[FigN⋅m]

"We secretly switched his Snap-On Dual 80 with mountain grown Folger's Crystals..."

 

[CGarage]

No way in hell would I have the time or financial inclination to blow money at a coffee shop daily.

dchawk81: You ought to give heaven a chance!

 

[2ndGearRubber]

That right there probably describes much of my annoyance when it comes to the discourse around Snap-On.

I have a number of Snap-On tools and while generally I can see the edge they have compared to other tool brands, sometimes the difference is not that great and a lesser viewed brand got the job done with no fuss. Other times the Snap-On did edge out others. One example being seeing how a 3/4 Carlyle non-slip wrench open end did not grip a nut well enough while a flank drive plus wrench could. Of course my Wright grip wrench did just fine too.

Then there's an instance I can think of where Snap-On fell short. I was trying to break a fastener loose in a confined area with my SHLF80a, but couldn't since the handle deflected too much before running out of room. Before breaking out a 3/4 ratchet, I thought I'd give this beat up Matco CFR248lft I got off Ebay a shot. The Matco was able to break the fastener loose with little issue. Why could the Matco succeed where Snap-On failed? The Matco was made back when Armstrong made their ratchets and one thing they did with the design was make the handle so it was thick near the head, but tapered down towards the handle. This made for a stiffer ratchet handle without too much excess weight.

The point of this story is that after hearing all of the praise placed on Snap-On and being mostly impressed with their tools, I was a bit disappointed that the Snap-On ratchet let me down while the Matco seemed to have a better design that got the job done. Generally I do think Snap-On is at the top when it comes to tools, but once in a while I run into products of their that fall short and a person gets a bit miffed to hear the folks declaring that Snap-On tools are perfection and only they can get the job done when my personal experience has not matched that.

It takes a village to fix a car.

In fairness, snap on is simply the popular synonym for tool trucks. Those who dislike snap on prices and business structure have the same to say about matco. A matco88 is a great ratchet, very expensive as well. I think overall a dual80 is a better mechanism, but the 88 has objective advantages.

There was a period on this forum I began replacing snap on with proto/Wright when using a brand name example of premium tools. Few people took issue or responded to "buying the top of the market can be worthwhile" when making the point from those brands.

A 7-22mm wright set is 240 bucks,proto a similar cost for a similar set up to 22mm. Street price, MSRP is obviously higher. An Icon set which on HF site is 130 for a set only to 19mm. I didn't find a set with Icon wrenches above 19mm, which is telling off something IMO. Point being, where's the "proto is a bad value" opinions? Where the "Icon is overpriced when I can buy Tekton" comments?

I don't watch sports, but I've noticed a trend when a team becomes dominant. People dislike them simply because they do well. Because being part of the "resistance" always feels better than conformity. I have enough different brands I don't feel the need to justify a purchase. I don't really understand how Icon fits into the mix of the tool ecosystem, but obviously when they "compare to snap on" that tells something doesn't it? Hey even at 75% of the performance for 25% of the price that's a winner in my book.

 

[Aaron_W]

Not just Snap On, you see this with a lot of high end brands, Festool, Woodpeckers, Miller, Lincoln etc.
The bottom end has a similar dynamic of fan boys and haters.

Not just tools you see the same with coffee between those who covet Civit Coffee and those who say the cheapest bucket of grounds at Walmart is good enough.

I think we as a species have a looking down on people gene.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

No way in hell would I have the time or financial inclination to blow money at a coffee shop daily.

I abused drugs and alcohol in my youth. Tools are cheap!

 

[dchawk81]

I abused drugs and alcohol in my youth. Tools are cheap!

Compared to coffee shops heck yeah.

 

[AEAdam]

I've tried more expensive coffees and they made no difference to me. So I went back to the cheap stuff.

I'm glad I don't have a coffee habit that costs me much. It's just a wake up habit for me more than anything.

Wait, you tried expensive coffee and decided cheap coffee was just as good? Shocking! Nope, no irony to see here. Move along. These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Wait, you tried expensive coffee and decided cheap coffee was just as good? Shocking! Nope, no irony to see here. Move along. These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.

I think all coffee *****.

What tool company should I be buying from?

 

[Cruzan80]

Nowadays, the Smart Watch is really changing the landscape of watchmaking, not only in Switzerland, but abroad. Germany, Italy, France, UK, Japan, US, China, and several other countries are experiencing a resurgence in interest in indigenous watch production, and this will bring about more innovation, options, and market competition.

I love my Garmin Vivo-Style. All the hallmarks of an analog watch, with a "hidden" digital screen. And the best part was they designed it with two batteries. The "digital" battery is good for a few days, but if I forget to charge it, the "analog" part of the battery is good for a few WEEKS at least (don't know if I have ever run it all the way down for that). Withings I think "pioneered" the idea, seen a few others emulate it. To me, it is the best of both worlds.

vívomove® Style

Silver Aluminum Case with Moss Silicone Band

www.garmin.com

 

[garfunkle24]

I think you would be correct in the case of Rolex or Patek Phillipe, but for all other luxury brands, I don't think so. I've been wearing the same Omega Constellation since 1971. In all those years, only two people have noticed. One was a watch collector. The other was a lawyer. I wear my watch because I love it. I love fact there are all those precision parts working in perfect harmony. I smile a little every time I look at it.

I would guess more laymen would know TAG than Patek Phillipe but I see your point and you're right. Most people wouldn't know a Royal Oak from my Seiko but everyone knows Rolex. I concede that my supposition was too broad, although given Rolex sales vs everyone else I might not have been THAT far off!

It's funny that the brands most people likely think of as the very top end of watches are actually on the low to mid range of mechanical/swiss/fine watches.

I'm sure in certain circles the more exclusive brands are better known and also largely bought as status symbols. I'm picturing a scene much like the one with the business cards in American Psycho.

 

[CGarage]

I love my Garmin Vivo-Style. All the hallmarks of an analog watch, with a "hidden" digital screen. And the best part was they designed it with two batteries. The "digital" battery is good for a few days, but if I forget to charge it, the "analog" part of the battery is good for a few WEEKS at least (don't know if I have ever run it all the way down for that). Withings I think "pioneered" the idea, seen a few others emulate it. To me, it is the best of both worlds.

vívomove® Style

Silver Aluminum Case with Moss Silicone Band

www.garmin.com

Garmin, naturally, is a Swiss company