Wiha...is it that good?

[Eric Commarato]

I am in the market for a really good screwdriver set. I'm looking at Wiha, but there are so many choices and so many price points. Are these screw drivers really that good? I bought a bunch of APEX "ergonomic" screwdrivers many years ago, and althought I know tools have a limited life, these didn't have much use; however, most of the tips on both the standard straight and phillips are worn and chewed up. Wiha can also be quite expensive. I'm really looking for a general purpose set, and maybe a "micro set" of electronics screwdrivers and nut drivers. What about the "soft finish handles" they offer, what is that all about? I don't want foam filled handles that are going to tear up in a couple years or maybe leak some kind of goo. Where is the best place with the best price to buy these? I know this topic has been covered here many times most likely, but I just don't want to wade through all the posts on this topic, as helpful as I know they would be.

Thanks,

Eric

 

[Kracin]

i've tried some wiha and liked them. but i also liked the wera too, the grips and tips are great on the wear for me. but wiha are the same quality as well, and at that point it comes down to preference.


i like the hard handle with ergo grip, but can't get the whole chiseldriver set in that handle, so i go with the rubber grips in between, harder to clean, but handle easier, less slip and less hand grip needed. just the tradeoff you get with any driver handle.


screwdrivers are one thing it is good NOT to skimp on when it comes to quality. otherwise youll find the tips and heads worn out faster than the screws you put in!

 

[jjjrmx5]

Are Wiha's good? Yes. Are they expensive? Yes. But quite practicle when compared to truck brands like Snap-On and Mac.

Here's teh No BS screwdriver thread:

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=194985&highlight=screwdriver

That should answer your questions.

Best place to purchase is likely Amazon. Felo and Wera are also options as are C'man Pro's, PB Swiss, Facom and Williams.

If budget driven, get your $$$ figure and then report Back. Durability and ease of replacement/warranty often fall in line and are easier to gauge your best options after you determine how much you want to spend.

 

[Quijote]

I LOVE Wiha tools. At work we use hex keys (metric) all the time and their tools are the best. We also have an insulated pair of shears and I have never seen a tool make so many clean cuts. All other cutters that we had could not cut this very small, very strong stranded wire cleanly.

Same goes for the screw drivers. We had these thread-forming screws to install during a prototype build and out of several #2 phillips screw drivers, the Wiha one was the only one that drove them in without stripping the heads.

I went on to buy a bunch of Wiha tools for home, including their full 40-piece screwdriver set, a basic heavy duty screw driver set, a full set of comfort pliers, a few insulated pliers, and a few hex keys. I also got their precision screw drivers, a mallet, a dead blow hammer, and their stubby 1/4" bit holder. When you buy a bunch of stuff directly from them (wihatools.com), you get freebies, but amazon tends to have the better prices.

They are superb tools. I'm sure there are other premium tools out there that are just as good, but I doubt they are noticeably better.

I'm sure their 1/4" bits are awesome too, but I have way too many Milwaukee/DeWalt bits I bought during Xmas sales at HD. They will probably last me a lifetime.

 

[hifi_hokie]

I have both the red/black handled cushion grips and the yellow-handled ESD mini set. Love 'em, although I have to admit I keep a set of Pratt-Reads around for abuse

Bought one from Amazon and one from Ebay, but IIRC the pricing was similar in both places.

 

[iroc409]

I prefer the Wera handles, but really like the Wiha stuff. I have a set of both, and managed to mangle a Philips Wera on the first use, but the Wihas are going strong. To be fair, my Weras are the standard-grade, and I think my Wihas are heavier-duty ones.

 

[Kracin]

I prefer the Wera handles, but really like the Wiha stuff. I have a set of both, and managed to mangle a Philips Wera on the first use, but the Wihas are going strong. To be fair, my Weras are the standard-grade, and I think my Wihas are heavier-duty ones.

i had the same thing with both brands.

the wera chiseldriver type vs the wiha heavy duty type and they are both great, havent tried felo but everyone says wiha and felo and wera etc are all on the same level. so its all about preference and comfort imho.

also, for price, i dont think wiha are that badly priced at all. sears actually carried a few different types of wiha sets, standard and electrical (my sears at least). and they were priced about the same as my wera sets... the rest i just get from work catalogs and make the company buy for me. but at that point, grainger has marked up the price about 40% anyway

 

[Nortonscustom]

I've been very happy with all my Wiha tools.

This screwdriver is still going strong.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33294

 

[PT Doc]

Wiha is other worldly. Absolutely fantastic drivers.

 

[cheechi]

I have the wiha insulated set that sears sells. I have used the precision screwdriver set they make, similar to the cheapo husky with 20 bits or so. they're great and i found i am missing a size it has, so i'm going to order that wiha set for myself pretty soon.

 

[balane]

<-- Wiha Fanboy. They're great.

 

[Unmarked Bill]

To me they're good not great. What has really knocked me out recently is some Cornwells I got, can't remember who OEMs them but they really hook. Theyre the blue hard handle ones.

 

[fflintstone]

I am a big fan of Whia. Particularly there HD ones with a thru bolster and end cap. They are half the price of snap on. There are great deals online for them. Even the WhiaUSA website has specials.

 

[maxisiri]

I was about to pull the trigger on this set:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002QPU1MO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

But the below review made me think about it...someone had these differences between what was on the photo and what was received and the lack of perfection?

REVIEW on Amazon By benolsen (2 stars):
"Now for some this review may seem harsh, especially to those who don't care about details. But if I am (or you) spending big money on a set of screwdrivers
you expect absolute perfection. After all these are the Cadillacs of screwdrivers. In my opinion somewhat of a luxury to own a set this expensive, but I also
understand that people want quality. Now here is the reason for the 2 stars:

1) A general lack of care with which these were made.

Out of the box (btw brown & most simplistic box) the silver paint on the shafts appeared to be discolored. Best way to describe it, it had different shades of silver that clearly did not look right. Mind you, I am not comparing 2 different shafts, this is on a single shaft of 1 screwdriver. Also the markings on 1 screwdriver had a black streak on the logo due to faulty printing.

2) The striking caps inconstantly polished.

Of the 10 screwdrivers 4 had a flat silver colored striking cap, while the others had a chromed striking cap.

3) Logos

When you look at the product image the markings are all consistent "Wiha SoftFinish 530" however, when I received the package, 4 of 10 screwdrivers simply had a big bulky "WIHA" logo on them, while the rest said "Wiha SoftFinish 530".

4) Once again while looking at the image, when the screwdrivers are in a "resting position" as in the product image, the flat (slotted) tip of the screwdriver should be PARALLEL with the ground on which it is sitting on. Not so with one of them that I got (4,5 x 90) it sits at an angle that is about 45 degrees.

I was honestly expecting more. I mean how would you like it if you bought a Rolex and some hour markings where a different font and others were of a diffident color shade? I am contacting Wiha to see what their take is on all this.

Where is the German Perfection & Quality? Was this even made in Germany?"


Thanks,
Max

 

[mattyrattypoo]

I can comment on a few points the reviewer made. I have had my Extra Heavy Duty set for over a year and when I got them, the striking caps did not match as he described. It did not really bother me and did not affect the performance of the driver for me.

As for his miss matched logos, its obvious that he got a mix of some new and old ones. Mine came all the same (old style) but I have seen newer Wiha drivers at a local store with the new logo mixed in with the old style.

And when I saw the new logo Wiha's, some of the blades were not matched up correctly like I have grown accustomed to with my Wiha's. Kinda weird.

 

[j.c.whitney]

Wiha Screwdrivers are of excellent quality. Light years ahead of Craftsman which is what I used for 30 years before joining GJ. The Black handle 534 Series and the Stubbies were new at Christmas and haven't seen much use yet. Like any tool, they get dirty and marked up if you use them. The lettering discolors when you get grease on them and the end caps get all marked up if you hammer on them.

 

[balane]

There is no more comfortable handle in the business, at least for me.

 

[Monte]

1) Also the markings on 1 screwdriver had a black streak on the logo due to faulty printing.

The logo/marking will wear off anyway

2) The striking caps inconstantly polished.

Of the 10 screwdrivers 4 had a flat silver colored striking cap, while the others had a chromed striking cap.

i think new and old style mixed

3) Logos
When you look at the product image the markings are all consistent "Wiha SoftFinish 530" however, when I received the package, 4 of 10 screwdrivers simply had a big bulky "WIHA" logo on them, while the rest said "Wiha SoftFinish 530".

old + new mixed

4) Once again while looking at the image, when the screwdrivers are in a "resting position" as in the product image, the flat (slotted) tip of the screwdriver should be PARALLEL with the ground on which it is sitting on. Not so with one of them that I got (4,5 x 90) it sits at an angle that is about 45 degrees.

i guess a robot inserts the shaft into the mold but the Robot don´t know how the position of the shaft is so you receive the tool however the robot grabbed the blade and inserted the blade.

I was honestly expecting more. I mean how would you like it if you bought a Rolex and some hour markings where a different font and others were of a diffident color shade? I am contacting Wiha to see what their take is on all this.

Rolex $5000.-
Wiha screwdriver $5.-

Where is the German Perfection & Quality? Was this even made in Germany?"

-yes it is made here.. At least it´s molded into the handle....
- if the screwdriver fits perfectly into the screw and lasts a long time then you have your german perfection & quality

 

[maxisiri]

Hi! Thanks for the replies...when did the style changed? Which one is the new style and new style (big letters or small letters)?

 

[Dave455]

Wiha are good tools. Good 'mid range' in my opinion. Not so cheap that they break, not so expensive you are afraid to use 'em!

If you want 'the best', then buy Snap On (the old style hard handles if you can) if you want inch sizes, or PB Swiss (Classic handle) if you want metric. Both will be more expensive than the Wiha!

If you don't want to pay Snap On prices, and your only other option is some Chinese rubbish, then Wiha is a great mid price choice! Why not buy one and try it before you commit to a set!

 

[N.I.]

Wiha are good tools. Good 'mid range' in my opinion. Not so cheap that they break, not so expensive you are afraid to use 'em!

I don't think there is anything midrange about them. They are easily among the best and I think plenty of people will agree with me.

If you want 'the best', then buy Snap On (the old style hard handles if you can) if you want inch sizes, or PB Swiss (Classic handle) if you want metric. Both will be more expensive than the Wiha!

Not trying to start a war, but please tell me how they are the best? I am genuinely interested. I have a few old hard handles and a hard handled ratcheting one and the biggest let down about them is the handle.

Do you actually use them for screw turning or are they just good for prying or collecting?
For one handed screw turning, i.e. turn, relax grip, reposition, repeat, - they are just plain clumsy and awkward to use.
For fast finger tip turning they are slow and clumsey.
For high torque turning they slip in my hand and are painful to grip tight.

I have yet to try the new instinct handles, but they do look like a significant improvement.



To the OP.

There is very little between Felo, Wera and Wiha. They are all very usable drivers but everyone has a favourite. You have to try them to see which you like best.

 

[Monte]

Hi! Thanks for the replies...when did the style changed? Which one is the new style and new style (big letters or small letters)?

i don´t know exactly but i think around 2011/12.
The small letter ones are the older ones

 

[maxisiri]

i don´t know exactly but i think around 2011/12.
The small letter ones are the older ones

Thanks MONTE! You have great tools on your arsenal and some of my new tools are based on what you shared in other posts. Thanks!

 

[Dave455]

I don't think there is anything midrange about them. They are easily among the best and I think plenty of people will agree with me.



Not trying to start a war, but please tell me how they are the best? I am genuinely interested. I have a few old hard handles and a hard handled ratcheting one and the biggest let down about them is the handle.

Do you actually use them for screw turning or are they just good for prying or collecting?
For one handed screw turning, i.e. turn, relax grip, reposition, repeat, - they are just plain clumsy and awkward to use.
For fast finger tip turning they are slow and clumsey.
For high torque turning they slip in my hand and are painful to grip tight.

I have yet to try the new instinct handles, but they do look like a significant improvement.



To the OP.

There is very little between Felo, Wera and Wiha. They are all very usable drivers but everyone has a favourite. You have to try them to see which you like best.

I have found Snap On to be the best, simply because of all the drivers I have ever owned, they have put up with use (not abuse) better than any others! Now to be fair, I work with a lot of imperial size screws, and I like my drivers to be a good fit, so that does limit the choice! But I think I've tried most!

I started out using Stanley Drivers, mainly the old 5000 series, because the handles felt good! Unfortunately, the Chrome peels easily from the tips, after which they soon wear. I loved the old Gordon drivers, but wasn't able to acquire a full set before they went out of business. Since then I've bought CK (but the tips wear, especially the Pozidriv) Mac (black tips flake) Proto (ditto) and a host of others but none of them have lasted as well as Snap On.

I bought my first Snap On drivers in the mid 80's. They were the last of the old square handled drivers. They havn't been used for prying, they havn't been 'collected' (though I wish I'd bought a whole set!) but they have been used regularly, and are still usable 25 years later. Yes the blades are a little worn now, and yes the handles are looking polished from years of use, but they are still useable! I have a few of the newer style hard handles, and accept that the handle shape won't suit everybody, but am basing my opinion on the drivers I have had longest!

I have tried quite a few Wiha drivers, and own a couple myself, but they don't stand up to workshop use as well as the Snap On. If you get the regular soft handle ones they get get oily easily, then grit sticks to 'em and they are unpleasant to use. If you get the square hard handles then they are better, but they only come with shiny chromed blades (not unlike the old Stanley) which don't wear as well as the vapour blasted tips! Finally having had to use small ball hex drivers for repeated disassembly and reassembly work, all (yes all) of my Wiha 2.5 mm ball hex drivers have broken after 400 screws or so!

So, if I'm working on metric stuff I favour PB drivers. If you like the Wiha you will probably love the PB. The tips are made to the Swiss spec, are hollow ground, and fit better than anything else I've tried. If you like the Wiha fine, everybody's different! Maybe if I worked in a cleaner environment I would too! But they still don't make inch sizes!!

 

[cbracer]

I find the handles a bit small on their screwdrivers. What bugs me most is the end of the screwdriver handle is WAY too small in diameter so whenever I put a lot of force on it, the end digs into my palm and I can't get as much force on it.

 

[N.I.]

I have found Snap On to be the best, simply because of all the drivers I have ever owned, they have put up with use (not abuse) better than any others! Now to be fair, I work with a lot of imperial size screws, and I like my drivers to be a good fit, so that does limit the choice! But I think I've tried most!

...........

Very interesting, thanks for sharing - but you have yet to convince me about the Snap On Hard handles . Yes tips are undoubtedly good, but I just find them too clumsy and they live in the scrap drawer.

I'm not familiar with the Stanley 5000. We have a few old green hard handled, chisel drivers lying about. No idea what brand they are, but have 'Fully hardened' stamped on the blade. They have lasted well and and I would assume they are an old English brand.

There are these Chinese copies on ebay that look very similar-

Personally I am a Felo fan and have used them so much that everything else feels alien. Have only ended up with Wiha due to the hot deals thread and Wera because they are 2/3 price of Felo in the UK. Both are very usable.


I have yet to try Witte or PB Swiss. I have to say I am a bit dubious of how well the PB Swiss hollow ground tips stick abuse.

 

[Miskin]

I'm not familiar with the Stanley 5000. We have a few old green hard handled, chisel drivers lying about. No idea what brand they are, but have 'Fully hardened' stamped on the blade. They have lasted well and and I would assume they are an old English brand.

There are these Chinese copies on ebay that look very similar-

We have the same screwdrivers in Greece. "Champion" made in Japan. Very durable.

I have yet to try Witte or PB Swiss. I have to say I am a bit dubious of how well the PB Swiss hollow ground tips stick abuse.

Give a chance to Witte, you will be suprised.

 

[rick carpenter]

Screwdrivers are wear items. Like Dave said, spend enough to get a good set but not too much that you won't use them. I have a Williams set and like them, price was right, and I don't need 'better' than that.

 

[Kracin]

Screwdrivers are wear items. Like Dave said, spend enough to get a good set but not too much that you won't use them. I have a Williams set and like them, price was right, and I don't need 'better' than that.

if you find a good enough screwdriver, the screws wear, not the driver.

i've seen screwdrivers sit in people's toolbags that have been in use for countless years, tips are still good, no signs of wear that would cause them to be out of use. and i've seen screwdrivers that encounter one or two hard to get to screws and they get tossed quickly into the "extras" drawers instead of kept in the tool bag because they weren't sized right, didnt grip right, or instantly got worn down worse than the screw that was taken out or put in.


after having a screwdriver that has been capable of doing any number of non screw related jobs, then taken to a bunch of screws afterwards for years on end without replacement, proper use and bad abuse. i know what drivers i go with.

 

[mmack66]

I was about to pull the trigger on this set:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002QPU1MO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

But the below review made me think about it...someone had these differences between what was on the photo and what was received and the lack of perfection?

REVIEW on Amazon By benolsen (2 stars):
"Now for some this review may seem harsh, especially to those who don't care about details. But if I am (or you) spending big money on a set of screwdrivers
you expect absolute perfection. After all these are the Cadillacs of screwdrivers. In my opinion somewhat of a luxury to own a set this expensive, but I also
understand that people want quality. Now here is the reason for the 2 stars:

1) A general lack of care with which these were made.

Out of the box (btw brown & most simplistic box) the silver paint on the shafts appeared to be discolored. Best way to describe it, it had different shades of silver that clearly did not look right. Mind you, I am not comparing 2 different shafts, this is on a single shaft of 1 screwdriver. Also the markings on 1 screwdriver had a black streak on the logo due to faulty printing.

2) The striking caps inconstantly polished.

Of the 10 screwdrivers 4 had a flat silver colored striking cap, while the others had a chromed striking cap.

3) Logos

When you look at the product image the markings are all consistent "Wiha SoftFinish 530" however, when I received the package, 4 of 10 screwdrivers simply had a big bulky "WIHA" logo on them, while the rest said "Wiha SoftFinish 530".

4) Once again while looking at the image, when the screwdrivers are in a "resting position" as in the product image, the flat (slotted) tip of the screwdriver should be PARALLEL with the ground on which it is sitting on. Not so with one of them that I got (4,5 x 90) it sits at an angle that is about 45 degrees.

I was honestly expecting more. I mean how would you like it if you bought a Rolex and some hour markings where a different font and others were of a diffident color shade? I am contacting Wiha to see what their take is on all this.

Where is the German Perfection & Quality? Was this even made in Germany?"


Thanks,
Max

If the guy had listed some real problems he had when actually using the drivers, and not just listed a bunch of cosmetic issues, I might be concerned.

 

[cbracer]

If the guy had listed some real problems he had when actually using the drivers, and not just listed a bunch of cosmetic issues, I might be concerned.

Guess that's the reason workers here in the US make crappy looking tools. They just don't care. Give me Nepros over SK, Proto, Mac, Armstrong any day.

So next time rather than attacking the guy, you should just write:
"besides how the tool looks, does anyone have any problems when in use?"
And if you want to know how well they work, read my post, I for one don't like them because you can't get enough force on the end of the screwdriver. I agree that if you're going to pay top dollar for tools they should also look nice not just work well. Plenty of people on the board agree, plenty disagree. To each their own, but don't bang on someone for providing feedback.

 

[Applesauce]

Having recently bought a Williams USA hard-handle set, I can't believe anyone would consider anything else.

 

[Kracin]

Guess that's the reason workers here in the US make crappy looking tools. They just don't care. Give me Nepros over SK, Proto, Mac, Armstrong any day.

So next time rather than attacking the guy, you should just write:
"besides how the tool looks, does anyone have any problems when in use?"
And if you want to know how well they work, read my post, I for one don't like them because you can't get enough force on the end of the screwdriver. I agree that if you're going to pay top dollar for tools they should also look nice not just work well. Plenty of people on the board agree, plenty disagree. To each their own, but don't bang on someone for providing feedback.

it seems like a good reason to complain when there isn't anything else wrong. but honestly, when it comes down to it if you are buying a tool to be used as a tool, and you reach for that screwdriver drawer.


when you pull out a screwdriver you aren't checking to see which way the tip is in relation to the handle, or which way the logo is facing, or if the logo is perfectly square. you are grabbing the screwdriver that gets the job done best in your hands. not just grabbing the pretty one that is gonna make things tougher.

we could complain all day about how something looks, but looks should always be second when talking about the function of something that is a "tool". it's all subjective to the person using it though, if none of my drivers had a single color on them, had no markings, weren't polished. i would still be happy because it's doing what i want it to do, and doing it well. whereas other people won't touch something unless the color on it is orange, or neon green.

 

[mmack66]

Guess that's the reason workers here in the US make crappy looking tools. They just don't care. Give me Nepros over SK, Proto, Mac, Armstrong any day.

So next time rather than attacking the guy, you should just write:
"besides how the tool looks, does anyone have any problems when in use?"
And if you want to know how well they work, read my post, I for one don't like them because you can't get enough force on the end of the screwdriver. I agree that if you're going to pay top dollar for tools they should also look nice not just work well. Plenty of people on the board agree, plenty disagree. To each their own, but don't bang on someone for providing feedback.

I haven't notice a lot of crappy looking tools from those manufacturers, though some of the USA Craftsman offerings are a bit rough.

I didn't attack the guy for leaving a review, as I was merely pointing out that such a review shouldn't necessarily turn someone off of a product. Cosmetic issues can be dealt with. Poor screwdriver performance or poor longevity can't, neither of which were dealt with in the review. And the only information I got from your review is that they don't work for you.

If the guy wanted Cadillac screwdrivers, he should have gone with Snap-On, and if he wanted Rolex screwdrivers, he should have gone with PB-Swiss.

As for German quality and perfection, well, I'm sure they make their share of duds, just like every other country.

 

[cheechi]

Screwdrivers are wear items.

You know what's funny about that? Ever since the thread a few months back about the hand impact driver, I haven't had a screwdriver bit break on me.

If screwdrivers are a wear item, you may be using them too hard or they weren't good enough to begin with. You should get one of these if you wear them out.

Wera
Wiha
Williams
Snap on (if you want to spend much more than is 'necessary' to me)


I'm still on the fence about the WF Cman pros I picked up. I got the Wiha at around the same time and they're better. Not just 'i like them better' they are better. More grip, better to turn, better identification on the end.

A screwdriver is the number 1 hand tool I use, I spend 7 hours with one in my hand some days. When I'm not turning it, I'm still holding it. I never 'wore' them out. Either the tips or bits broke, or chips came out of the crappy plastic handles, or they got damaged from someone misusing them (back when I had used shared tools). They don't wear, they break.

 

[Kracin]

You know what's funny about that? Ever since the thread a few months back about the hand impact driver, I haven't had a screwdriver bit break on me.

If screwdrivers are a wear item, you may be using them too hard or they weren't good enough to begin with. You should get one of these if you wear them out.

Wera
Wiha
Williams
Snap on (if you want to spend much more than is 'necessary' to me)


I'm still on the fence about the WF Cman pros I picked up. I got the Wiha at around the same time and they're better. Not just 'i like them better' they are better. More grip, better to turn, better identification on the end.

A screwdriver is the number 1 hand tool I use, I spend 7 hours with one in my hand some days. When I'm not turning it, I'm still holding it. I never 'wore' them out. Either the tips or bits broke, or chips came out of the crappy plastic handles, or they got damaged from someone misusing them (back when I had used shared tools). They don't wear, they break.

truth,

if i can take a wera chiseldriver, and break the head of a screw off with the screwdriver and a hammer, and not make a mark on the screwdriver, i'd hate to see what "normal wear" is for a screwdriver that isn't made as well thats just taking screws out by turning.

 

[KCTool]

Hi! Thanks for the replies...when did the style changed? Which one is the new style and new style (big letters or small letters)?

Big letters is the new style. They are still in the process of switching. They still have some old style on hand in certain sizes and styles. If you want to buy a new driver and have it match your others you'll want to contact your distributor before ordering just to be safe.

 

[newchris]

how come noone has mentioned witte? i thought they were excellent... i still use the harbor freight green and orange set because i cant justify buying matcos rebranded witte drivers and have zero complaints to be honest but ive been thinking about pulling the trigger on a set of actual wittes, but in all seriousness are they not on par with the other drivers mentioned?

 

[rick carpenter]

A screwdriver is the number 1 hand tool I use, I spend 7 hours with one in my hand some days. When I'm not turning it, I'm still holding it. I never 'wore' them out. Either the tips or bits broke, or chips came out of the crappy plastic handles, or they got damaged from someone misusing them (back when I had used shared tools). They don't wear, they break.

Your "break" is pretty much what I meant.

 

[Sunbimmer]

how come noone has mentioned witte? i thought they were excellent...

I think you are right about that, I use a pozidrive screwdriver from Witte almost every day for 28 years now.
It is still in perfect condition, I love the quality