Williams slotted driver defect?

[bob15]

Agreed. Ihate posted a...how it's made clip at the snap-on factory, and they were stamping snap on and williams sockets on the same line.

At the same time, on the same press or two different clips in the same video (which i believe was the case)? I've already proven Williams and Snappy wrenches are different; so why wouldn't sockets be different? Do a Rockwell comparison between the two, and you will see a big difference. Even the screwdrivers aren't identical, as the OAL is different between Williams and Snap On. The Snappy's version of the OP's screwdriver I posted, is .25" longer (catalog length and me measuring it). That blows the identical out the window (close but no cigar).

As for the getting different steel alloys and heat treating/nitrating them differently, not very hard to do. Snap On's metal stock probably cost more than the Williams alloy, hence some of the price increase. Wrenches and socket alloys aren't even considered exotic metals. Having to go through heat with two different batches are normal. Where i work, before it was sent overseas and to NC, heat treat would run around the clock with a hundred different specs for treating different parts, most with different metal alloy call-outs.

Also, if Williams' sockets and wrenches are the same as Snap On's, how does the offshore Williams match up with Snappy? After-all, it is Williams......


bob

 

[cheechi]

Williams Taiwan is basically Blue Point for many items where they overlap. I'm sure somebody will correct me about that for x part number or whatever.

 

[redwrench60]

I've had the Snap-On version of that driver for maybe 17 years. The tip on it is properly ground. I don't remember if it was ever vapor blasted, it's had the hell used out of it. I don't think it was. That old driver is tough as $2 steak.

I just ordered the Williams version from Amazon, We'll see what shows up. I've been wanting another but Snap On discontinued it years ago.

 

[bareass172]

You guys can believe what you want to, and I don't mean that in a combative manner, but when the tool rep for the company who sells the tools tells you that they're different (lower quality) then I tend to believe them. I didn't ask him about sockets specifically, I asked him about the Bahco ratchets which are made in another country and these drivers which he stated are made with a different alloy. He specifically told me what the differences were, but not being a metallurgist I didn't understand anything more specific than that he was naming metals. I did ask him about the industrial brand tools in a general manner and he mentioned the metallurgy, which leads me to believe that there are more differences than just the ratchets and drivers.

To each their own though, I sure don't know for a fact any more than anyone else.

 

[rancherbill]

....when the tool rep for the company who sells the tools tells you that they're different (lower quality) then I tend to believe them....

+1

This proves the statement, not all screwdriver shaped objects are the same. It goes along with not all vise shaped, or anvil shaped objects are the same.

 

[cheechi]

Well here's what we've collected on GJ at one time or another:

ToolsDelivered says the Snap On sockets and Williams sockets are the same except for a finishing step before the chroming and the final finishing.

We know the wrenches are different from another thread. Williams Superrench already had a reputation before SO bought them so there is not much likelihood they are the same as any SO anyway.

The screwdrivers your rep has told you are not the same. Fine. Maybe the same as an older generation, maybe the same tooling used to make them but a different formula, or process. No use in speculating, it's now GJ fact that they are not the exact same as SO hard handles.

I have heard from ISC Denver that the Williams ratcheting wrenches, sockets, and several other Taiwanese made items are effectively Blue Point tools with different name.

Bahco ratchets we knew were different from the SO dual 80 from some thread 'the europeans would have wanted to design their own' that came from a SO rep.

I am too lazy to find the quotes for each of these, but they are for the past 3-4 years the 'GJ facts' regarding the various tools discussed. Until someone comes up with new information, Bare has provided the best and most up to date info about these drivers so far.

 

[e30bradley]

very interesting thread. I think its kind of sad that an American factory takes so long to make changes to a product.. I know some of you are thinking "of but its hard to make changes blah blah blah.." Well.. China can do it so why can't we?

 

[cgv69]

You guys can believe what you want to, and I don't mean that in a combative manner, but when the tool rep for the company who sells the tools tells you that they're different (lower quality) then I tend to believe them.

Typically speaking, I very rarely listen to or believe tool reps because in my own personal experience, rare is the tool rep that actually knows what they are talking about. Most of them are just repeating what they have been told or heard around the office.

(Not that much different then a lot of the "facts" that get passed around on the Internet )

Now in this particular case, the fact that he is "admitting" that their tool is inferior, or at least different to the other product would seem to indicate a level of truth because really, why would someone admit to something like that unless it was actually true?

BUT... in this case the comparative product is not a rival competitor, it is a sister company and it's not that hard to believe that the parent company (Snap On) would instruct Williams to claim differences between their line and Snap On's because other wise, how would Snap-On justify the significant difference in pricing?

Here's my take. For those of us who have both, it's a clear to see the 2 lines are not identical but they are very close. IMO, close enough for the average non-pro. Probably even close enough for the average pro but for those that have to have the "best" or who make a living with their tools and can't afford to waste time with long and complicated warranty claims, Snap On is the way to go.

 

[redwrench60]

I got my SDS-33 in today from Amazon. The tip is ground correctly.
Now for some observations:

Nowhere on this thing is USA or a part number.
Also the steel is very different than my old Snap On equivlant screwdriver. The finish is shiney and the steel appears to have a different appearance and heft to it. Nothing scientific, just feels different than I'm used to on my other one.

 

[Brownsfan]

That's odd. Mine has the part# and USA on it. Maybe they are now made elseware like the other Williams tools.

 

[SMKS]

That's odd. Mine has the part# and USA on it. Maybe they are now made elseware like the other Williams tools.

Lots of Williams tools are still made in the USA.

Williams has two lines for most tools, a USA-made line and an imported line.

For example, Williams already has a line of Taiwanese screwdrivers that are totally different than the USA-made hard handled drivers.

 

[ADSR]

That's odd. Mine has the part# and USA on it.

Mine does as well.

 

[redwrench60]

Well, pictures worth a thousand words.......

 

[ADSR]

^^

Strange!

 

[redwrench60]

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing at all wrong with it. It appears to be perfectly made, I was just surprised to see no part number or USA marking. Makes me wonder where it's made. All info says USA.

 

[nicksnothereman]

Well, pictures worth a thousand words.......

Strange looking tip. Are they typically that stubby?

 

[bareass172]

Typically speaking, I very rarely listen to or believe tool reps because in my own personal experience, rare is the tool rep that actually knows what they are talking about. Most of them are just repeating what they have been told or heard around the office.

Typically I would agree completely with you, and I'm not going to sit here and say that this guy is infallible, but he has been with SO for ~20 years. He and I actually talked tools for quite awhile and he was very knowledgeable. He knew all the normal stuff like makers and brands but he also knew when certain stuff was made as well as where the factories for many of them were. I got the impression that he's a bit of a tool buff like many of us on here. The other thing was that he didn't feed me a lot of vague ideas, he typically had very sound facts to support what he said. When he mentioned the steel alloy differences he actually said which metals were higher and lower percentages. Now again, I'm no metallurgist, so this could have sounded very technical to me, but been complete BS.

Well, pictures worth a thousand words.......

This was a surprise. To frame this, I now have 3 of these drivers from Williams. In the process of trying to get this all right I kept getting more of them. I offered the extras back to the rep, but he didn't want them. Anyways, I have an original "bad" one and 2 brand new ones that just left the factory with proper tips and all 3 have the model and "made in the USA" just above the "not a chisel" designation. Now I'm wondering if they come from 2 places...

 

[redwrench60]

Strange looking tip. Are they typically that stubby?

It actually has a normall tip. It looks stubby like that because of the way I'm holding it for the picture. I was trying to show the grind and tip profile.

 

[redwrench60]

I'm inclined to agree that the steels are slightly different between the SO and Williams screwdrivers. At least my example anyway. The appearance, heft and the grain of my older Snap On example is noticeably different than the new Williams I received. Time will tell if its of good quality.

 

[Brownsfan]

Lots of Williams tools are still made in the USA.

Williams has two lines for most tools, a USA-made line and an imported line.

For example, Williams already has a line of Taiwanese screwdrivers that are totally different than the USA-made hard handled drivers.

I knew this. But you never know. My local industrial supply place sells both and The USA made stuff is never in stock. They say they are having trouble getting the stuff from Williams. They could be lying as well.