Show Off Your Antique Ratchet

[four.cycle]

@chasinfram -

Your "Bay State" ratchet and "bushing" set is really quite a find.
Curiously, although I do not have an advertisement for your set as early as 1906, it appears that the ratchet was available as a separate unit at that time.
A 1909 hardware catalog shows both a "No. 2" and a "No. 3" set, both of which appear very similar to yours.
They were still selling that same ratchet as late as 1930.

keep this link handy at all times

and this one

Welcome to the site!

 

[oscarsnapkin]

Hello everyone,

Hazet (Germany) ~ 1920 to 1930 with hex drive (alternative wooden box are also common at this time)
(1933 exchanged by other 1/2" square drive ratchets)







regards,

That’s a beautiful set. My only knowledge of Hazel is that they made tools for VWs.

 

[Orangina]

... My only knowledge of Hazel is that they made tools for VWs.

Nope, Hazet founded 1868 is much older than VW founded 1949 (with predecessors back to 1937),
and deliver also special tools before to much older automotive brands as Mercedes or Auto Union (today known as Audi) or Opel etc.
(also BMW, but this starts first in aviation - you can still see the propeller in the logo - starts in the '20s motorcycle and '30s cars).

Initially for industrialization such as emerging gas installations, but already in the 1920s with tools for cars and motorcycles.
Popular around Germany for automotive including commercial vehicles or agricultural, aviation and motorcycle, bikes and industry tools.
Today also many isolated tools for working on high-voltage electric mobility.

The first single letters pronounced in German as "Ha Zet" of its founder Hermann Zerver.
Many old German tool brands located close to them in the same area of Germany: Knipex, Stahlwille, Wera, Gedore, Belzer, Picard, ...

 

[chasinfram]

@chasinfram -

Your "Bay State" ratchet and "bushing" set is really quite a find.
Curiously, although I do not have an advertisement for your set as early as 1906, it appears that the ratchet was available as a separate unit at that time.
A 1909 hardware catalog shows both a "No. 2" and a "No. 3" set, both of which appear very similar to yours.
They were still selling that same ratchet as late as 1930.

keep this link handy at all times

and this one

Welcome to the site!

Hey, thanks for all the research! I am so grateful to have had the opportunity to get this set. Both well used and well preserved.
As to the ratchet being sold for decades, just changing the inserted rotating piece, any needed configuration could be accommodated, 1/2” square, hex, whatever.
I’m guessing the sleeve concept had its limitations. To have a sleeve (for my 1-1/8 inch socket wrench) that would fit a 1/2” bolt, the sleeve would be really thick and heavy.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I got lucky today at an antique shop. I found a No. 2 Champion Ratchet Wrench set made by Syracuse Wrench Co. Original box. Original label. All sockets are present. The ratchet is stamped with the patent date of December 17, 1907. The ratchet is also stamped Syracuse Wrench Co Syracuse NY. The set is actually 5/8 drive. Everything works & is in good shape. The screwdriver bit it really cool. Anyone know anything about this set? Is it a rare set? I think it might be the first socket set that Syracuse made??

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Anyone know anything about this set? Is it a rare set? I think it might be the first socket set that Syracuse made??

Mine posted with some commentary and info here and here.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Mine posted with some commentary and info here.

Good info. I'm missing the "Chain Link" universal & the deep spark plug socket. This set has an interesting history.

 

[AntiqueBen]

So does it go...
Auto-Cle
Q.M.S.
Syracuse Wrench Co
Then.... Mossberg?

Mossberg didn't get the Auto-Cle rights until sometime in 1908. This no. 2 Syracuse set's patent was applied for in March of 1906 & granted in December of 1907.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Mine posted with some commentary and info here and here.

Does your universal or sockets fit in the end of your ratchet handle?

 

[four.cycle]

@AntiqueBen -

Syracuse / Syracuse Wrench Co., 501 E. Water St., Syracuse, NY / "Champion" "Yala" / patent 873977 Dec 17 1907 Jacob J. Albrecht / http://alloy-artifacts.org/syracuse-wrench.html / https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/syracuse-wrench-co-ratchet.481546/ /

these may or may not be posted elsewhere on the site:

 

[AntiqueBen]

The more I think about this Champion no. 2 Syracuse set, I realized something unique about it. Really, prior to this set, pretty much the only socket set out there was Auto-Cle & Q.M.S. The only other exception is the G.W. Smith socket set originally patented in 1883 & released to the public around 1890. But everything for the G.W. Smith set was sold separately, even the sockets. Nonetheless, if you bought it all then you had a complete set.

G.W. Smith's ratchet was a closed, gearless mechanism. The Auto-Cle ratchet had its own unique way of ratcheting, technically speaking still considered "gearless" since it doesn't have a toothed gear. All that to say this. Is this ratchet in this Syracuse set the first ever socket set with geared open end ratchet? There were obviously various other open end geared ratchets in the past (of which I have several examples). None of which were included with a socket set though. It would appear on the surface that this Syracuse ratchet is the first geared open end ratchet included in a set of sockets. It proved to be a design that the tool industry ran with & perfected over time.
Any thoughts?.....

 

[Private Lugnutz]

So does it go...
Auto-Cle
Q.M.S.
Syracuse Wrench Co
Then.... Mossberg?

Really, prior to this set, pretty much the only socket set out there was Auto-Cle & Q.M.S.

You're missing Charles Miller. A huge blind spot in your timeline. He was a founder of the Miller Combination Tool Company, a co-founder of the C.M.B. Company, and he also collected royalties from the Syracuse Wrench Company. Miller Combination Tool Company was the first US mfgr to make and sell interchangeable socket sets explicitly for mechanics - of a unique design, not Contal's, in 1906, patented in 1907. The Syracuse sets came later, and clearly used the Miller design, under license (the critical Tee handle, at least), as a model. Later still, after Miller Combination and C.M.B. broke up and the legal issues with Syracuse were resolved, Charles Miller made socket drive tools with an eponymously named company based on his 1910 (952,435, and 952,436) patents. My set linked here.

EDIT: While I think AA's Auto-Cle-to-Mossberg sequence is incomplete and misleading, they do a good job with the Miller/Syracuse sections. Reading either one would quickly inform you on this topic.

You're also missing R.A.C. in the Auto-Cle-to-Mossberg sequence, but that's minor.

Does your universal or sockets fit in the end of your ratchet handle?

No. The extensions don't either. I am not sure they're supposed to. The ads do not show the end of the ratchet as part of the interchangeability. Mine is deformed, though.

 

[AntiqueBen]

No. You're missing Charles Miller. A huge blind spot in your timeline. He was a founder of the Miller Combination Tool Company, a co-founder of the C.M.B. Company, and he also collected royalties from the Syracuse Wrench Company. Miller Combination Tool Company was the first US mfgr to make and sell interchangeable socket sets explicitly for mechanics - of a unique design, not Contal's, in 1906, patented in 1907. The Syracuse sets came later, and clearly used the Miller design, under license (the critical Tee handle, at least), as a model. Later still, after Miller Combination and C.M.B. broke up and the legal issues with Syracuse were resolved, Charles Miller made socket drive tools with an eponymously named company based on his 1910 (952,435, and 952,436) patents. My set linked here.

You're also missing R.A.C. in the Auto-Cle-to-Mossberg sequence, but that's minor.

No. The extensions don't either. I am not sure they're supposed to. The ads do not show the end of the ratchet as part of the interchangeability. Mine is deformed, though.

I remember now reading about Charles Miller before. Totally slipped my mind. Your Miller No. 77 set is nice! The numbered sockets remind me of the circa 1890 G.W. Smith numbered sockets.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I remember now reading about Charles Miller before. Totally slipped my mind.

Understandable. Rare and obscure, even among collectors.

The factors for a timeline of detachable socket drive tools for the mechanics trade is a tricky thing to begin with. I would include the Bay State kits (1908, using Lord's 1901 ratcheting wrench patent), for example, as well as Eames' ratchet adaptor (1910), well before crediting an entry to Mossberg, who didn't make their own sets (with no connection to Q.M.S.) with their own ratchet until 1913.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Understandable. Rare and obscure, even among collectors.

Speaking about rare, I still haven't been able to find anything on my Charles B. Gracey ratchet. Patented on August 23, 1904. Other than patent office info, I've literally found nothing. I'm beginning to believe DATAMP when they state "not known to have been produced."

 

[four.cycle]

@AntiqueBen -

I've never been able to make much sense of this page on "Miller", but here you go (below)

==

Gracey / Charles B. Gracey, Coraopolis, PA / "Eureka" ratchet / patent 768220 Aug 23 1904 Charles B. Gracey /

Kind of looks like the Gracey unit was designed for a "track drill".

==

 

[AntiqueBen]

I've never been able to make much sense of this page on "Miller", but here you go (below)

Kind of looks like the Gracey unit was designed for a "track drill".

I remember you posting this a while back when I first posted this ratchet. To date, this is the only ad of this ratchet that has been found. I've even searched for the Eureka ratchet, as they call it in this ad, only to still find nothing. Makes me wander if this tool was ever sold at all? Maybe after the ad went out something happened? Would be nice to know the whole story. I'm sure the answers are buried in a book or catalog somewhere...

 

[four.cycle]

^ I don't remember what images I post where.
I think it's reasonable to assume that if the widget appears in a trade journal, magazine, or hardware catalog, it's a safe bet to assume that it was in fact manufactured.

Granted, there are tool catalogs that have been published showing items which apparently were never put into production (e.g., Indestro catalog No. 60A), but when you go way back, you're in a completely different world: those engravings were made by master craftsman, the plates had to be made by master craftsman and typesetters - and none of that was on the cheap, any more than in the current era.

That's my "litmus test" for sending something in to datamp.org: If I can't find a photo image of an actual specimen or an illustration of the item in a magazine or trade journal, I don't send it in.

There are all kinds of widgets for which no documentation seems to exist, but we know the tools were made because we have photo images of them here. With patent numbers. Unfortunately we just don't have "catalog" for every widget. Sometimes the best one can find is an entry in an old City Directory that only confirms a company's existence. I thought I was doing pretty good just finding that one ad - I have whole folders full of stuff that I'll probably never be able to identify or pin to a manufacturer.

 

[AntiqueBen]

^ I don't remember what images I post where.
I think it's reasonable to assume that if the widget appears in a trade journal, magazine, or hardware catalog, it's a safe bet to assume that it was in fact manufactured.

Granted, there are tool catalogs that have been published showing items which apparently were never put into production (e.g., Indestro catalog No. 60A), but when you go way back, you're in a completely different world: those engravings were made by master craftsman, the plates had to be made by master craftsman and typesetters - and none of that was on the cheap, any more than in the current era.

That's my "litmus test" for sending something in to datamp.org: If I can't find a photo image of an actual specimen or an illustration of the item in a magazine or trade journal, I don't send it in.

There are all kinds of widgets for which no documentation seems to exist, but we know the tools were made because we have photo images of them here. With patent numbers. Unfortunately we just don't have "catalog" for every widget. Sometimes the best one can find is an entry in an old City Directory that only confirms a company's existence. I thought I was doing pretty good just finding that one ad - I have whole folders full of stuff that I'll probably never be able to identify or pin to a manufacturer.

All true 4C. I'm glad you did find that ad. It's all we got so far. It seems like if it had any success we would find more, so probably not produced to long. I'm sure Charles Gracey didn't have his own drop forging capabilities. It would be cool to find out who manufactured this tool for Gracey. We may never know

 

[RTM]

To date, this is the only ad of this ratchet that has been found. I've even searched for the Eureka ratchet, as they call it in this ad, only to still find nothing

Change your thoughts slightly, maybe.

Instead of ratchet, even tho they called it that, maybe chase "drill"? Or just search for Gracey in google books, or ITCL using search in text, not just metadata, and start removing search terms with -term if they cloud things too much. Kinda brute force, but it's served it's purpose occasionally.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Change your thoughts slightly, maybe.

Instead of ratchet, even tho they called it that, maybe chase "drill"? Or just search for Gracey in google books, or ITCL using search in text, not just metadata, and start removing search terms with -term if they cloud things too much. Kinda brute force, but it's served it's purpose occasionally.

I've already done some of this, but still a good idea. I could still try some different search methods. I'm just as interested in finding out what happened to Charles Gracey. Really can't find anything on him either. I found one article dated 1906 of a Charles Gracey that was with the Morton Mining Company & he was going to California to do something for them. Of course I have no idea if this is the same Charles B. Gracey that patented my ratchet. Research is maddening sometimes. But as the saying goes.....we never stop....we simply continue.

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

I found a Greene Tweed & Co ratchet. I think this is the larger example at 24" long. I know these were used for larger industrial situations, but I think this was used for railroad rail because of the number 20 on one end of the socket. Works great & has a 12 tooth operation. I'd like to figure out the "N" in a circle logo. It's on the handle & the socket. I'm sure that's probably the forging company that made it for Greene Tweed. Anyone know this logo?

Here's a few interesting ads for Greene Tweed's Favorite Ratchet Wrench. One ad advertises making war work easier. An ad during World War I showing a lady using the wrench. Also, likely the first ad for the ratchet in Iron Age dated 1892.

Here is another Greene Tweed & Co Favorite ratchet plucked from a $2 any wrench pile at at a local swap meet. This is a No. 2 pass through rat which is 27" long with one end hex for a standard 3/4 bolt head and the other marked 3/4 E, which is about a 1-1/4" square head. It is a good size ratchet but dwarfed in the pic by a Lowell 56 pass through rat and a Large Standard oil wrench. Ed.

 

[baldytooltime]

Correct.

You can see a nick in ratchet where pipe would fit over handle. However, it can be used without handle as well ( despite designed intent for more torque) so it still “kinda” qualifies as first stubby ratchet. Grab and use.

 

[baldytooltime]

You can see a nick in ratchet where pipe would fit over handle. However, it can be used without handle as well ( despite designed intent for more torque) so it still “kinda” qualifies as first stubby ratchet. Grab and use.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

First of all, welcome back, @baldytooltime. Glad you emerged from your coma unscathed.

Seriously, dude, when we had this conversation, it was 2024! I can barely remember what I had for dinner last night. You gotta approach these old topics with a little more preparation and tone than posting as if it was just last week or my brain will cramp.

However, it can be used without handle as well ( despite designed intent for more torque) so it still “kinda” qualifies as first stubby ratchet.

I wouldn't qualify it as the first stubby ratchet in the way that term is recognized in modern industry. I already explained why. It was clearly designed to slip over a longer handle. But it doesn't matter to me how you want to identify it and you certainly don't need my or anyone else's affirmation. If you mean that you could grab it and use it as what we now call a stubby ratchet - that is, one in which the handle is intentionally much, much shorter than the normal handle for the head and drive size, yes, I can totally see that.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I was re-reading all of the interesting Lowell ratchet discussion previously posted on this thread. I believe I left out an important difference on my earliest Lowell ratchet. My no. 1 Lowell (pics below), with the flat handle (which matches the D.M. Moore patent pics), has a gear that has two different sizes. One side of the gear measures 3/8" & the other side measures 1/4". All of my other Lowell's have the same size on both sides of the gear. Since Lowell has a lever to switch directions, you could tighten & loosen with each size without switching gears or flip flopping the ratchet. This was certainly an upgrade to Richardson's (1863) ratchet that required you to switch gears in the head of the ratchet to accommodate different size nuts & bolts.

I've not noticed anyone else's having a gear with 2 different sizes on the same gear. I'm curious now how long Lowell did gears like this? It doesn't seem to be common among the early Lowell's I've seen. Could've Lowell done this early on as an improvement to Richardson's ratchet? Anyone have or know any specifics on this?

 

[Mike'smeatshop]

I was re-reading all of the interesting Lowell ratchet discussion previously posted on this thread. I believe I left out an important difference on my earliest Lowell ratchet. My no. 1 Lowell (pics below), with the flat handle (which matches the D.M. Moore patent pics), has a gear that has two different sizes. One side of the gear measures 3/8" & the other side measures 1/4". All of my other Lowell's have the same size on both sides of the gear. Since Lowell has a lever to switch directions, you could tighten & loosen with each size without switching gears or flip flopping the ratchet. This was certainly an upgrade to Richardson's (1863) ratchet that required you to switch gears in the head of the ratchet to accommodate different size nuts & bolts.

I've not noticed anyone else's having a gear with 2 different sizes on the same gear. I'm curious now how long Lowell did gears like this? It doesn't seem to be common among the early Lowell's I've seen. Could've Lowell done this early on as an improvement to Richardson's ratchet? Anyone have or know any specifics on this?

Sorry I can't help but very cool.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

One side of the gear measures 3/8" & the other side measures 1/4".

If you're referring to the square drive openings, it reminds me of a Wells Brothers "Little Giant" ratchet tap wrench I have that accommodates two different size taps. It actually has a removable head and comes in a set of four (4) heads, a different drive opening on each side, for a total of eight (8) different size openings. Posted in the tap and die thread here. And then scroll down for more info.

How thick is the head? How deeply will something (a male drive tang on a socket, a tap, etc) seat inside each service opening?

 

[AntiqueBen]

I made an interesting purchase today. Everyone here knows I'm a big Lowell Wrench Company fan. I have quite a few Lowell ratchets ranging from small to over 4 ft long. I didn't realize that old original Lowell catalogs are as rare & scarce as they are. I've always wandered why I couldn't find any. I was lucky enough to find an original copy of Lowell's first catalog from the 1890's. It is complete & has all of Lowell's reversible ratchet wrenches in it. I understand that websites like Alloy Artifacts, Vintage Machinery, ITCL & some others have put out on their site if anyone has original Lowell catalogs to please share pics because they are so difficult to find. This catalog seems pretty rare. I think I'd have a better chance of getting struck by lightning before I could find another one. I'm sure this catalog will help answer a lot of questions about some of ratchets from Lowell's early days. I should receive it in a few days. The seller only listed one pic.

Anyone know anything about Lowell's first catalog from the 1890's??

 

[baldytooltime]

Can’t wait!

 

[Beerhippie]

I made an interesting purchase today. Everyone here knows I'm a big Lowell Wrench Company fan. I have quite a few Lowell ratchets ranging from small to over 4 ft long. I didn't realize that old original Lowell catalogs are as rare & scarce as they are. I've always wandered why I couldn't find any. I was lucky enough to find an original copy of Lowell's first catalog from the 1890's. It is complete & has all of Lowell's reversible ratchet wrenches in it. I understand that websites like Alloy Artifacts, Vintage Machinery, ITCL & some others have put out on their site if anyone has original Lowell catalogs to please share pics because they are so difficult to find. This catalog seems pretty rare. I think I'd have a better chance of getting struck by lightning before I could find another one. I'm sure this catalog will help answer a lot of questions about some of ratchets from Lowell's early days. I should receive it in a few days. The seller only listed one pic.

Anyone know anything about Lowell's first catalog from the 1890's??

Better get that scanned before you get hit by lightning!

 

[AntiqueBen]

Better get that scanned before you get hit by lightning!

Very true
Who knows how many of these have even survived? Probably not many...

 

[oscarsnapkin]

I wonder how much that ratchet weighs…the one on the first page that is as long as the man pictured next to it is tall. Near catalog, thanks for sharing.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I wonder how much that ratchet weighs…the one on the first page that is as long as the man pictured next to it is tall. Near catalog, thanks for sharing.

I would guess around 80lbs, maybe more, especially with that giant socket on there. Realistically, it would take 2 or 3 guys to use a ratchet like that

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

I made an interesting purchase today. Everyone here knows I'm a big Lowell Wrench Company fan. I have quite a few Lowell ratchets ranging from small to over 4 ft long. I didn't realize that old original Lowell catalogs are as rare & scarce as they are. I've always wandered why I couldn't find any. I was lucky enough to find an original copy of Lowell's first catalog from the 1890's. It is complete & has all of Lowell's reversible ratchet wrenches in it. I understand that websites like Alloy Artifacts, Vintage Machinery, ITCL & some others have put out on their site if anyone has original Lowell catalogs to please share pics because they are so difficult to find. This catalog seems pretty rare. I think I'd have a better chance of getting struck by lightning before I could find another one. I'm sure this catalog will help answer a lot of questions about some of ratchets from Lowell's early days. I should receive it in a few days. The seller only listed one pic.

Anyone know anything about Lowell's first catalog from the 1890's??

I was skeptical that there was even a catalog until I saw the pic. Now I really want one

 

[AntiqueBen]

I was skeptical that there was even a catalog until I saw the pic. Now I really want one

Well, all I can say is good luck. Extremely rare to find. This one is the only one I've ever seen or heard of. Like I said before, I probably stand a better chance of getting struck by lightning before I could find another one I'm sure there is another one out there hiding in a garage somewhere waiting to be found.

 

[MR.X]

I was skeptical that there was even a catalog until I saw the pic. Now I really want one

That cat. Was on eBay for a long time.

 

[AntiqueBen]

That cat. Was on eBay for a long time.

Yes it was. I'm guessing it was on eBay for 5+ yrs. When I tried to find another one is when I realized why his asking price was high. Thought I better grab it before it disappears forever.

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

Well, all I can say is good luck. Extremely rare to find. This one is the only one I've ever seen or heard of. Like I said before, I probably stand a better chance of getting struck by lightning before I could find another one I'm sure there is another one out there hiding in a garage somewhere waiting to be found.

Thanks for sharing it.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I found a Lowell no. 11 the other day (pics below). All the no. 11's I've seen have the no. 11 stamped on the handle. This one has the no. 11 stamped on the head of the ratchet. I can also see the remains of that old black paint I'm used to seeing on turn of the century tools. Does anyone know when Lowell first made the no. 11?