Craftsman from China - really that bad?

[Moose97]

I have a box full of Craftsman tools. Mostly USA made and some Chinese made. I don't use them to make my living but to keep my families 4 cars running and whatever other jobs need done at the house/farm. I have some Gearwrench stuff and some Harbor Freight stuff. The quality of all seems about the same. I am quite pleased with all of my tools. I've only ever broken a couple of tools in my life. One was a Kobalt socket. The other was a Harbor Freight breaker bar. I broke them at the same time but to be fair I had a 5' cheater bar on them and ended up cutting that bolt off with a torch. I might feel differently about what I buy if I used them everyday. I don't know.

 

[Y00PER]

I have a box full of Craftsman tools. Mostly USA made and some Chinese made. I don't use them to make my living but to keep my families 4 cars running and whatever other jobs need done at the house/farm. I have some Gearwrench stuff and some Harbor Freight stuff. The quality of all seems about the same. I am quite pleased with all of my tools. I've only ever broken a couple of tools in my life. One was a Kobalt socket. The other was a Harbor Freight breaker bar. I broke them at the same time but to be fair I had a 5' cheater bar on them and ended up cutting that bolt off with a torch. I might feel differently about what I buy if I used them everyday. I don't know.

Most of my stuff is used for my own cars, lawn mowers, etc. They sit most of the time when everything is running as it should. Still, even then, I have noticed a difference between U.S. made stuff and overseas.... granted, the overseas stuff might just be the worst of the overseas stuff.

Recently twisted a 3/8 drive, 3" extension trying to get a rusted bolt to break free. Ratchet (SK) held up, the socket (US Craftsman) didn't slip, but the extension twisted. Wasn't using a cheater bar, but I did have most of my weight on it.

Also recently, changing the back brakes on my Chrysler minivan, I had this set of torx bits:
https://www.autozone.com/screwdrivers/driver-bit/duralast-5-pcs-star-bit-set/914167_0_0
Just using hand pressure from one hand, and banging on the end of the ratchet with a closed fist, was enough to twist it. That was enough of that... ran to the local parts store, picked up a Lisle one, and it broke it free, and all the others without any issues.

 

[skunkape1]

The OP has a legitimate question but as was said, it’s unfortunate it has devolved into ***** sizing. I think in order to properly answer the question, controlled scientific methods would need to be used to determine metallurgical makeup as well as strength of whatever tools we would be interested in. Otherwise it’s just anecdotal evidence as to those questions. Fit and finish however should be able to be determined by a number of users reaching a consensus.

I only use USA Craftsman but it’s a principle thing and not based on any head to head tests. Even if China made Cman was proven to be as good as or even better, I will still not consider buying the Chinese made stuff. Probably old fashioned but hey, it makes me feel good.

 

[nutsnbolts]

No problem. I just asked for a productive, fact based convo. I can appreciate your statements. But might I ask you this, me not knowing the answer? If Snap On would send their exact specifications to China, who is the "bad guy" here, would the product be better, worse, or the same? In my opinion, it all depends on what the factory is told and paid to do, whether that factory is in US, Japan, Taiwan, China, or where ever. Agree?

No, I wholeheartedly disagree. I do not believe there is a "Pride in China" work ethic that rivals what we have in the US. I believe this is evidenced in the quality of all goods we get from China. They give us the bare minimum. Customers like buying Chinese stuff because they get a lot for their money.

Let's say I have $100,000 and I can buy darn near any car I want.

This guy says, "I'll buy a Ferrari!!!"

The next guy says, "Ha! For $100,000 I can buy 5 Hyundais!!!"


The first guy smiles and thinks to himself, "Yeah, but none of them will be a Ferrari."

 

[WittHay]

I was wondering where you buy new Sears Craftsman from. There used to be a Sears 1/2 hour south of the border it closed. The Sears a hour away closed also. The closet Sears is a hour and a half away. I think this relates to a lot of areas in the US

This makes Sears Craftsman a internet brand, which there is a lot of competition. All I can say is that most quality imported sockets seem to come from Taiwan and not China.

 

[nutsnbolts]

The OP has a legitimate question but as was said, it’s unfortunate it has devolved into ***** sizing. I think in order to properly answer the question, controlled scientific methods would need to be used to determine metallurgical makeup as well as strength of whatever tools we would be interested in. Otherwise it’s just anecdotal evidence as to those questions. Fit and finish however should be able to be determined by a number of users reaching a consensus.

I only use USA Craftsman but it’s a principle thing and not based on any head to head tests. Even if China made Cman was proven to be as good as or even better, I will still not consider buying the Chinese made stuff. Probably old fashioned but hey, it makes me feel good.

We need more of this in the USA, in my opinion

 

[dogdog]

No, I wholeheartedly disagree. I do not believe there is a "Pride in China" work ethic that rivals what we have in the US. I believe this is evidenced in the quality of all goods we get from China. They give us the bare minimum. Customers like buying Chinese stuff because they get a lot for their money.

Let's say I have $100,000 and I can buy darn near any car I want.

This guy says, "I'll buy a Ferrari!!!"

The next guy says, "Ha! For $100,000 I can buy 5 Hyundais!!!"


The first guy smiles and thinks to himself, "Yeah, but none of them will be a Ferrari."

LMFAO I think that is a failed analogy if you look at it wonky....

The next guy would have said.... ****.. I can transport 10x more passenger, 20x the distance, utilize 1/10 of the fuel... and probably pocket all the saving and buy two more Ferrari later on.

 

[Gmonkee]

Skip any "looks" or "feels" argument away and go straight to real repeatable observations the results may shock some. All older wrenches used to be "lobster claw" wide by design. A sucessful design to limit spreading in old carbon steel tools. Alloys improved greatly and therey are still thin profile widr hipped wrenches being made today. In modern alloys they will not spread in the bigger forces I put on them.

Not fitting in tight spaces is a legit problem however. It can be overcome easy enough.

I do not buy or use designs that work poorly for me but I did experiment with any design I could get to prove or disprove what others have stated.

In short springy steel in regular to narrow profile open ends will mush up hardware. A poor fit wrench to hardware will mess something up.
A good fit wide hip open end of a proper alloy will be harder to spread before a fastener loosens.
Most any newer than 1947 will have a decent alloy going and perform well, if they are well fitted.

Now add in the 'looks' factor and any undesirable detail and they become useless junk even if they grip and turn bolts properly?

Some guys shop on form and others on function. A bit of both makes more sense.

 

[Tallpilot]

I have no clue what purpose this thread serves. OP says he has been buying Chinese made Craftsman and that he is happy with it. I fail to understand OPs need for approval and validation of his preferences.

Already purchased. I need no justification to spend $20 on a solid set of metric and SAE set. I want to know if they last. So I decided to purchase to decide for myself and maybe help others. Please understand I have 2 full three tier tool chests of tool. I have no need to purchase a socket set. Please see my attached images, and tell me I need a socket set. LOL! One is my tool chests and the other what I had out on my last job. I appreciate your sarcasm, but it is not needed here. I really am fact finding. Seriously Bro.

EDIT: But yes, I agree. Overall, it has been polite, which is what I want, and we should all want. I bought these damn sets to try myself. I have these sockets in 6 and 12 point, deep and standard, impact and non, etc. I want facts, and I am asking for help from others to obtain such facts.

It wasn’t my intention to be sarcastic. Craftsman, Tekton, Capri, Sunex, Gearwrench etc all appear (anecdotally) to be good enough. I’m not sure what else we can accomplish with more talk. Some destructive testing in a laboratory to determine actual metallurgy would be interesting.

At the end of the day it turns on what is convenient for you if you aren’t a USA purist and don’t mind Asian production. If a Sears is close by it is a reasonable option but not demonstrably better or worse than the other options. I personally prefer delivery and phone/email based warranties for smaller items. For large items it is nice to have local sales and service.

You mentioned that Snap-on basically has no warranty. That’s a false statement. If you mean they don’t offer a warranty without a receipt that is often true but they do that to protect their direct customers. The decision not to pay their prices is imminently defensible for many use cases but irrational hatred/bashing smacks of jealousy or sour grapes. But being an unabashed fanboi is just as irritating.

 

[woody 73]

I don't know about the quality coming from China , but I will say the small plastic box sets from craftsman at my local lowes store look pretty nice.

Maybe I am wrong but I figure with enough old stock still out there, via garage sales, flea type places and cl a person would be set for life buying them up, providing you had the time to do so.

Again with the high quality of other names I don't see why anyone has to worry about Chinese craftsman but maybe I am wrong in my thinking?

Are they any good only time will tell...

 

[skunkape1]

I was wondering where you buy new Sears Craftsman from. There used to be a Sears 1/2 hour south of the border it closed. The Sears a hour away closed also. The closet Sears is a hour and a half away. I think this relates to a lot of areas in the US

This makes Sears Craftsman a internet brand, which there is a lot of competition. All I can say is that most quality imported sockets seem to come from Taiwan and not China.

The nearest several Sears stores to me are all closed now. However, there are a few “Hometown “ Sears still around. Those stores coupled with Ace hardware are the only places to find the Sears Cman stuff around here. Unfortunately, they don’t carry the full line. What’s nice though, is that you can still find NOS USA made Cman every once in awhile at these little places.

 

[toddmorr]

i understand exactly what the OP is asking for and it seems a reasonable question. All I have is this:

got out my calipers and carefully measured the open ends of several gearWrench combination wrenches, versus the half dozen SK I have. The SK was consistently a tighter tolerance than the Gearwrench. Whether that matters in daily usage I'm not sure, meaning I suppose it's possible the fastener tolerances are greater than the differences I measured between SK and Gearwrench.

 

[nutsnbolts]

LMFAO I think that is a failed analogy if you look at it wonky....

The next guy would have said.... ****.. I can transport 10x more passenger, 20x the distance, utilize 1/10 of the fuel... and probably pocket all the saving and buy two more Ferrari later on.

That guy will never have a Ferrari though because when the opportunity came, he chose a bargain car instead.

 

[dogdog]

That guy will never have a Ferrari though because when the opportunity came, he chose a bargain car instead.

that is when how should we say this.... different view of completing the objective, and utilization of $$$ for the $ being spend and the return of the investment.. The other is a measurement of joy and happiness. neither is wrong, just no one is absolutely right. both guys are looking at different way to the objectives....

 

[Negen]

I love threads like this as craftsman was never a quality brand but a good buy best bang for the buck type of brand. Nowadays there are better bangs for the buck than what current craftsman offers. I suspect the tools you seek will all have to be looked at individually and compared to other offerings for cheap China/Taiwan tekton , channel lock , toptul ,teng ,etc. Probably all offer equal or better tools than craftsman. Ratchets are all a personal preference mine are USA or Japanese others have different countries of origin. Even China can only build a tools so cheap before quality is effected. A person either wants quality or wants cheap hard to get both without deal hunting. First thing one needs to do is set a budget for the tool they need if you need a 300 piece set for 99$ then China seems the place to shop. If you need sae set and set a budget for normal and deep at 99$ your options are wide for quality vs coo brands no longer matter when shopping in China but comes down to preference in features of the tool. I for one am most impressed with tekton and channel lock brands for cheap tools. I didn't like craftsman hand tools in the 90s and with a global shopping center at my finger tips I see no reason why one cannot buy the tools they need with quality and budget in mind set aside brands and coo and focus on quality and budget one can fill a toolbox for less than I spend on coffee in a year.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[7avalon7]

No, I wholeheartedly disagree. I do not believe there is a "Pride in China" work ethic that rivals what we have in the US. I believe this is evidenced in the quality of all goods we get from China. They give us the bare minimum. Customers like buying Chinese stuff because they get a lot for their money.

Let's say I have $100,000 and I can buy darn near any car I want.

This guy says, "I'll buy a Ferrari!!!"

The next guy says, "Ha! For $100,000 I can buy 5 Hyundais!!!"


The first guy smiles and thinks to himself, "Yeah, but none of them will be a Ferrari."

...so you think a country have less work ethic just because you do not like tools/goods from that country. That makes a lot of sense, like there is no fat lazy American

Not all goods from China are ****. Not all goods from US are gold, plenty of US made goods are bare minimum **** as well.

"Customers like buying Chinese stuff because they get a lot for their money. " - there is absolutely nothing wrong for wanting getting a lot of bang for the buck. Personally I think it is silly buying stuffs that I can not use and take advantage 100%. For example, for me, that would be buying expensive professional grade socket sets when a lot cheaper set works perfectly fine for a diy guy like me. I rather buy more stocks than expensive tools But I also understand if one wants to spend money for expensive tools (or Ferrari). Nothing wrong with that. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Negen]

China does have pride but the imports are not of Chinese brands they are global brands that contract China for goods to import to USA. Take a look at Chinese ai or Chinese satellite industries for good Chinese made for Chinese people products. Globals do not go to China for increasing quality they do so for increasing profit. China can make what ever quality they are told to by the company that contracted with them. I am sure they take pride in building tools for a dime and selling it to an American for 20$ whereas an American tool is built for 15$ and sold for 30$ (examples only but close to reality )

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Tonyuk]

You guys are ridiculous when it comes to this, like a bunch of children.

China is here to stay, fact.

Some of the tools and stuff you use everyday will be made in china, and it probably works great.

Accept it, don't buy it if you don't want to but don't complain when others do and say that its good kit.

 

[zendriver]

The irony of this nonsense, is - that at the end of the day, a Chinese craftsman wrench, does pretty much the exact same thing as it's perfectly built in proportionally priced Snap On counterpart.

The only real difference is "the experience!"

The analogy of the Ferrari in the Kia, are no different. While no one will argue, that "the experience" is not different, at the end of the day, they both are driven from point a to point B and back.

Fwiw The 80 inch LCD HDTVs built in China, are way better quality, than the ones built in the USA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sberry]

I had a bunch of busted cman sockets right out of the box. Some on the first use. This was 1980 stuff. I had some earlier that were tough. Never broke a wrench or extension and the ratchets after they got rid or the rounds and went to the pears are pitiful. Never broke extension.
I only have a few China replacements and never broke one. The originals broke early and easy, if they worked they worked forever so to speak. Wasn't like they were brutalized for long time, simply snapped and really quite a few.
The breaks were not opinions or speculation. But have never even heard of a broken China socket from them.

 

[ctb]

Only thing I have to offer is this.
Back in the early 90's I bought a 3 pc set of craftsman metric flare nut wrenches from sears Canada. By then just about all sears craftsman tools bought in Canada were Chinese made, as were the flare nut wrenches.
I used them once, to try take off a fitting to the master cylinder. The jaws spread and rounded the fitting. The wrench was utter ****.
But then I suspect that the same craftsman wrench made in the USA would have been just as bad.

 

[Gmonkee]

The Sears era CM stuff was made by anyone snd everyone. They never released info on whom or what failure rate anyone had. Now with the ship on the rocks and fuel leaking badly I do not expect any major long term improvements. They may stumble upon one or two along the way however.

SBD era CM is barely here now and being they have a stake in the future of the brand when it comes it will be solid user tools across the board. Fails will hurt SBD. Sears just stopped caring.

Old CM 1930 - 198? was nearly every US maker and some quite good. Others quite average. After that any worldwide maker and the same results. Except the new factor was some was unusable bad. Some of that was not furrin' made.

Unless your crystal ball and tarot cards can be relied upon with each specific item considered you are unlikely to know well until you try to use it.

I will put the same faith in my Stanley tools as the new SBD stuff as it appears but Sears sourced stuff.... ummm well... no.

They have little left to lose anymore.

 

[thwaller]

It wasn’t my intention to be sarcastic. Craftsman, Tekton, Capri, Sunex, Gearwrench etc all appear (anecdotally) to be good enough. I’m not sure what else we can accomplish with more talk. Some destructive testing in a laboratory to determine actual metallurgy would be interesting.

At the end of the day it turns on what is convenient for you if you aren’t a USA purist and don’t mind Asian production. If a Sears is close by it is a reasonable option but not demonstrably better or worse than the other options. I personally prefer delivery and phone/email based warranties for smaller items. For large items it is nice to have local sales and service.

You mentioned that Snap-on basically has no warranty. That’s a false statement. If you mean they don’t offer a warranty without a receipt that is often true but they do that to protect their direct customers. The decision not to pay their prices is imminently defensible for many use cases but irrational hatred/bashing smacks of jealousy or sour grapes. But being an unabashed fanboi is just as irritating.

The reason I stated Snap On basically has no warranty is because as a non professional, the warranty is lesser than most others, like Husky, Kobalt and Craftsman... and even Napa type store brand stuff. As a regular consumer, truck owners basically ignore me, well in the one experience I do have. So I am left with going to Snap On direct, which costs me postage and likely insurance and tracking. Then, Snap On can still deny warranty for basically any reason they want. Or... I can just go to one of the above named places and just get a new tool, easy and simply.

For a professional, I see how the tool truck is great. You break something, and the truck stops in often so you can get it replaced. But it seems that the warranty you get is based on the money you provide the truck. I know this is an exaggeration, but it seems like the warranty is more of a "buy this new ratchet and I will warranty your broken tool". I think it is a different market, and that is fair. But for a consumer like me, it is a poor warranty in comparison. On the counter side, how many professionals want to drive to a retailer for each broken tool? Again, a different market.

 

[sberry]

Only thing I have to offer is this.
Back in the early 90's I bought a 3 pc set of craftsman metric flare nut wrenches from sears Canada. By then just about all sears craftsman tools bought in Canada were Chinese made, as were the flare nut wrenches.
I used them once, to try take off a fitting to the master cylinder. The jaws spread and rounded the fitting. The wrench was utter ****.
But then I suspect that the same craftsman wrench made in the USA would have been just as bad.

The flares were the weak link right along withbthe ratchet. It aint just you, the USA were as bad. About useless and dont even make good scrap.

 

[thwaller]

The OP has a legitimate question but as was said, it’s unfortunate it has devolved into ***** sizing. I think in order to properly answer the question, controlled scientific methods would need to be used to determine metallurgical makeup as well as strength of whatever tools we would be interested in. Otherwise it’s just anecdotal evidence as to those questions. Fit and finish however should be able to be determined by a number of users reaching a consensus.

I only use USA Craftsman but it’s a principle thing and not based on any head to head tests. Even if China made Cman was proven to be as good as or even better, I will still not consider buying the Chinese made stuff. Probably old fashioned but hey, it makes me feel good.

That is really all I am trying to determine. My intent is to determine, with facts, are the China CMAN really a bad tool, or is it the fact that it is a USA made tool gone China that makes them "****"?

I purchased a basic SAE and metric socket sets for the only purpose of comparing them and using them. They will be spares in my portable boxes only, I have no NEED for these and thus nothing to justify. I just want to know, are they actually poor quality tools or not?

My experience with Craftsman as a whole is good. Most all my CMAN tools are USA ones. I cannot fill a drawer of a portable boc with the China ones I have, but I can say that I see no difference in them, look, finish, feel, size, etc. But I Am limited to sockets (hex, etorx, torx, etc). I have no China CMAN ratchets, wrenches, etc. Thus my post here.... what do others see in their experience... do the tools break easy? As someone else here said, the "lobster claw" wrenches can be problematic based on the size (although from what I see, at least for the RP wrenches has been corrected). That is a great fact and a fair reason to call those tools a lesser quality.

I am not going to tell you what degrees I have, how many cars I own, the exact number of tools I can stack up without them falling over .... I am a non professional user, with a reasonable skill set and a reasonable selection of working tools. My question is resemblant of such. I also prefer to not bring COO into the conversation on its own merit. Unless someone can say that stamping "Made in USA" onto a tool automatically gives it a quality boost, to me it is just not a factor. Nice, sure, but what I want to know is if you removed all marking and used the tools, will that user actually realize a difference. I believe each specific tool may have a different answer to that question, which seems to me to provide a very logical reason to post such a thread and ask for facts, while providing the facts that I can contribute.

Sorry to those that believe all things not made USA is junk, not desirable or whatever. Everyone has the freedom to think and do and act how they choose as long as said choices do not infringe on the same freedom of others. I mean.... USA Craftsman in my experience will break before Blue Point which is made in Taiwan. So to me, COO is not an indicator of quality on its own merit.

 

[sberry]

Good and bad are subjective. At a price 2 or 3x what it in in super sale sets it's junk, at its price now it's a bargain, worth some sacrifice and risk, it doesn't need to be financed and insured. It's not a theft target.
It can be used. I use that kind of stuff all the time. Part of my road kit is cheap wrenches. They are proven but not cash valuable.

 

[thwaller]

Good and bad are subjective. At a price 2 or 3x what it in in super sale sets it's junk, at its price now it's a bargain, worth some sacrifice and risk, it doesn't need to be financed and insured. It's not a theft target.
It can be used. I use that kind of stuff all the time. Part of my road kit is cheap wrenches. They are proven but not cash valuable.

I agree totally. That is why I was and am hoping for some usage facts of some sort. To me, I can say that is a tool breaks, bends, does not fit properly, etc ... that is a bad tool. It does not meet my functional needs. A good tool is simply a tool that does meet my functional needs. Now, we never know if a tool will break until it does. So hearing from others discuss their experience, especially when a tool breaks, is very valuable. Same goes for the lobster claw issue and other functional issues.

I also respect those professional who will comment that this wrench feel better in my hand than this other wrench. For those users, I get it, you hold that wrench hours per day, so in this case the feel and balance is a factor in quality and performance. But I feel that portion of discussion belongs in a thread comparing Snap On to others maybe like Mac, Matco, Wright, Proto, etc. Just the fact that this is a comparison of CMAN COO to me excludes such things be default.

 

[thwaller]

If anyone is still interested, I received today the 9 piece metric and 9 piece SAE socket sets, 3/8 drive, Craftsman made in China. My intent is to use them, along with the equivs I have from Craftsman USA. I am more than happy to provide pictures and do some testing as I believe it is productive and helpful for all. As I mentioned prior, I paid $9.88 per set, so that is basically $1.10 per socket. This price is all inclusive, that is the total cost delivered to my door by USPS priority mail. The product is new and unused, easily visually verifiable.

 

[Gmonkee]

Yes. Ignore finish beyond initial observations and go straight to fit and function. What else matters during the battle?

Durability can only be proven with regular use so we will have to wait a bit on that.

 

[sberry]

I have really beat some China combo wrenches. I have broke a couple with extensions and hammering and a couplevstretched the box hammering a lot against impact in production for a couple days.
Some of those springy Olympia that the farm store sold were the best but that MIT type stuff is brutal tuff too. I did it to a couple semi on purpose just to see if it was fact or fiction.
In my experience they are very good as a tool is concerned despite all the ********.

 

[thwaller]

Yes. Ignore finish beyond initial observations and go straight to fit and function. What else matters during the battle?

Durability can only be proven with regular use so we will have to wait a bit on that.

Ok, I will grab 2 of them and pair them with their USA equivs. One thing I will say, looks wise, they look cheap. Sometime years ago, my brain got wired to tell me that super shiny tools are ****, so that is an issue if I were to be using looks as a major factor here. They look nowhere near as good as my USA CMANs, or even my Gearwrench, Stanley's, etc. My USA CMANs are older though (pre 2000), and have a strange almost color to the chrome. Maybe someone here who knows what I mean can comment further on that.

 

[thooks]

Everybody wants US made Craftsman tools again.


STOP buying the Chinese Made Craftsman tools. Let them sit on the shelf.

Someone will get the hint.


As far as Chinese made chrome tools, Craftsman is the most expensive. HF is the least.

Choose wisely.

 

[thooks]

OP: I’m slightly older than you. 100% of my Craftsman chrome tools are US made. I started buying in 1990 or so. I’ve also bought NOS and used at flea markets and yard sales.

Post China made Craftsman has been NOS Napa, etc, Tekton, HF.

 

[JiminAZ]

I am a 1961 model, and I grew up going to Sears with my Dad. Craftsman and Kenmore were staples in our home and served us well. The message I got from Dad was that these brands were well made, tough, USA stuff you could count on, and you could go to a Sears anywhere and get replacements, service, and parts for a fair price. We lived that out with Kenmore refrigerators and washing machines and dishwashers, Craftsman in the garage.

Dad wasn't a gear head, but he did know how to swing a wrench as many of our crappy cars early in my childhood needed major repairs including engine rebuilds. Dad knew how to do that work. Guess who was looking over his shoulder? I was the little assistant handing him wrenches and drivers and fishing around in the toolbox for the 9/16 socket all the while asking a zillion questions.

That made a serious impression on a lot of little boys back in the day. When I got old enough to start buying tools I didn't even think about other choices, Craftsman was it.

A lot of the "****" designations you hear from guys like me is really sickened frustration at what has been done to the brand. It's hard to separate the emotions from the facts but it's true that the identity psychology with Craftsman is extremely strong.

Now as to whether the Chinese tools are usable (the OP's question), I have mixed experience. Replacement sockets haven't broken yet, although as a DIY guy it takes the right set of circumstances to happen in my "mr fixit" life before a substantial test of the tool takes place.

I did recently put a 3/8 socket drive #2 Phillips (that was part of a Chinese boxed set) to the test and it failed miserably - rolling off the flutes of the driver like they were dead soft cast iron. I have used the hex drivers in that set and so far so good. I recently split a US 1/4 combo wrench box end, and the Chinese replacement QC is atrocious (broached off center).

So I'm not buying Craftsman anymore. Honestly, it's mostly based on personal disappointment around knowing what "used to be", and a considerable desire to buy US sourced. They do have some serviceable tools, and some junk. You will have to make your own decisions about what is serviceable to you.

I do have/buy Asian tools for certain non-core applications, but try to stick to Taiwanese sourced. Honestly that's mostly driven by my politics. Taiwan is a thorn in China's side.

So OP there are a lot of moving pieces here. Hard to uncoil it all but global sourcing is reality, pricing pressures are reality, and guys buying iconic brands and milking them off is also reality. Craftsman is at the intersection of all of that and it has been hard on the brand.

I do think if Stanley plays it right the brand can be resurrected.

 

[thwaller]

OP: I’m slightly older than you. 100% of my Craftsman chrome tools are US made. I started buying in 1990 or so. I’ve also bought NOS and used at flea markets and yard sales.

Post China made Craftsman has been NOS Napa, etc, Tekton, HF.

I am working on my post. I am trying to obtain as much fact as I can with pictures. I am unsure of your age, but it does appear you have a handful of years on me. I have not seen NOS at yard sales, but I have purchased used tools there. That includes USA Craftsman and others. Tekton is great, I have had numerous conversations with them, and they have a customer willing to give them a real honest chance. In case we are crossing definitions, NOS = New Old Stock. So used tools are not really that, but I get your intended statement I believe. I meant no disrespect.

I started buying... if I had to stab around 1994, maybe 1995. I do appreciate those tools more, you will see that in my personal review, which actually DOES side to USA CMAN.

 

[thwaller]

I did recently put a 3/8 socket drive #2 Phillips (that was part of a boxed set) to the test and it failed miserably - rolling off the flutes of the driver like they were dead soft cast iron. I have used the hex drivers in that set and so far so good. I split a 1/4 combo wrench box end, and the Chinese replacement QC is atrocious (broached off center).

I do have Asian tools but try to stick to Taiwanese sourced. Honestly that's mostly driven by my politics. Taiwan is a thorn in China's side.

So OP there are a lot of moving pieces here. Hard to uncoil it all but global sourcing is reality, pricing pressures are reality, and guys buying iconic brands and milking them off is also reality. Craftsman is at the intersection of all of that and it has been hard on the brand.

Thank you for that post. I appreciated that, a clean and honest reply. Now, we differ a bit. I do not use philips or slotted head sockets. I use impact bits on my manual impact driver in such cases, then I turn by hand. The issue is that such "fittings" are made to fail on torque, thus why we have the torx, which are NOT made to fail on torque. I digress.

Taiwan makes some good stuff, ie. Blue Point, Williams, etc. But in reality, they make what they are told to. They do, however, take more pride in their work. But thanks man, I am not trying to be anti USA, I am trying to be pro fact.

 

[thwaller]

Everybody wants US made Craftsman tools again.


STOP buying the Chinese Made Craftsman tools. Let them sit on the shelf.

Someone will get the hint.


As far as Chinese made chrome tools, Craftsman is the most expensive. HF is the least.

Choose wisely.

Sorry for another post, but I prefer to respond in an organized manner, hope that is ok. What I think you fail to consider is warranty. For HF, I have to go into a HF, I think? Well, not going to happen. I will toss it just due to gas to get there, not to mention back.

With CMAN, well, I mean SB&D, I need not go to the store. So at face value, the CMAN warranty is seeming better, thus making the tool better. A warranty I can use is far better than one I cannot. Like Snap On, it is a worthless warranty to me as I am not going to line the pockets of a truck owner (sorry that is a rant of opinion). Husky, Kobalt, even NAPA have a better warranty, since I can at least get to a local retailer for them.

Can I ask the issue with modern/current Craftsman? Is it the fact that they are made in ... NOT USA? If so, that is not at all the point here. COO is not a factor of quality on its own merit. So the most and least expensive from China is a poor comparison, as there is no actual comparison of quality. Company A might say use the cheapest metal possible, while company B might say use this quality alloy. You are prejudging based on COO, which is not scientific at all.... meaning facts + relevant facts = logical conclusion.

 

[JiminAZ]

Glad it was helpful, I editorialized more than I intended.

I'd add that another turn off for me was the last couple of exchange processes at Sears. Got a sales guy who was clearly uninterested, they did not have replacements in stock for 2 of the 3 items being returned, and I just sort of threw in the towel right there.

 

[thwaller]

Glad it was helpful, I editorialized more than I intended.

I'd add that another turn off for me was the last couple of exchange processes at Sears. Got a sales guy who was clearly uninterested, they did not have replacements in stock for 2 of the 3 items being returned, and I just sort of threw in the towel right there.

I have seen the same, in all honesty. The in-store warranty service went in the crapper a bit before 2012, that cannot be denied. It did take a bit more work (which is unwarranted) to get warranty service. Thank you for making that point. I have failed to make that point in my topic here.

 

[thwaller]

Hey guys, before I post, could I ask some who know such things .... should I post in separated posts or all in one? I am unaware of policies of such things, the same goes for limitations imposed by the forum developers, and well, programmers as this may be a turnkey forum.