Show your "Long C" Craftsman!

[Private Lugnutz]

Finally found one of these that I didn't have to donate a kidney in order to bring it home. Not perfect but in pretty good shape for it's age. I'll try to find a bolster to replace the one missing from the bottom front corner and an original style pull for the cover but other than that, just Murphy's wipe down and run with it.

Congrats, JoCo! Not that you need my opinion, but I completely agree with your own assessment and approach. On a scale of 1-10, I would rate that an 8.5 as is! You realize we have the same box, right? Yours is older than mine (1948), but same sheet metal formed pulls. They were knobs during the war. Yours could be anywhere between 1933 and 1941, and possibly 1946 or 1947, although that badge makes me think prewar for some reason. Again, you probably know more about that than me. You have probably already done your research on dating it. I'd be very interested in seeing a closeup of the name on the center hasp and, if there are any pencil mark numbers on the backs of the drawers, what they are. My resto thread is linked here. EDIT: And I used ‘The Guide for Wooden Machinist Chests’ website, Union pages linked here, for much of the information. Ted, the proprietor, has posted here on GJ on occasion.

 

[Outlawmws]

JoCo, get some good pics and dimensions and I'l see what I might have.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Will do Outlaw and thanks.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Ha! Thanks Lugz, I'm already knee-deep in your resto thread that I had bookmarked in the event I ever found one of these suckers. This is a 43 catalog clip. I've passed on a couple of Heritage badged version (mainly because they were apparently plated with gold) and really wanted this one, the reverse-color Long C badge. I've seen this badge sporadically placed on machinery but no method to the madness as far as determining a date for it. Much like the predominately blue Heritage badge that pops up from time to time. This thing just hit my shop this afternoon and I'm smoked from trying to keep up with a 4 year old all weekend. I'll get more in depth with it tomorrow. Your thread is immensely helpful including the many links found on it. Thanks! EDIT: As for the 43 image, there is, of course, a strong possibility that the chest was manufactured earlier than that and they were still selling off existing stock after the war started.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I can't really see the badges on those 1943 boxes in the image, JoCo, but note that the drawers have knob pulls, not sheet metal formed pulls, which is consistent with Ted's info. I think yours would be 1941 and earlier, or possible postwar, but before the Heritage era.

Your badge is effin' cool.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Yup, you're right (I hate how these catalog clips I post won't enlarge). Thanks for the catch. Clip image has Long C logo and knobs. I'm thinking the reverse color Long C is one of the early ones as the machines I've seen them on have all been Walker Turner-made (that usually had brass logo badges) which predates any of the Atlas machines. I think I've got about 8 windows open right now looking at information!

 

[Old Radar]

Great find JoCo--Congratulations! Really digging the badge. I'd like to see the insides if you get time.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Thanks Radar. I'll get some decent pics tomorrow. I did pull out a few drawers and they all have the same number penciled on them like on Lugz's (except I believe mine are 695). More to follow tomorrow.

 

[tombell572]

JoCo, Gerstner has them: https://gerstnerusa.com/product-category/restoration-supplies/. They're pretty generic so should match up.

Tom B.

 

[ooba tooba]

Thanks Outlaw. I've been trying to pin one of these down for some time now.

I'm referring to the metal corner reinforcements. I may be screwing up the nomenclature. This is my first wooden machinist chest. I've got some GJ homework to do on it.

They have a nickel corner protector that looks similar to yours
https://gerstnerusa.com/product-uses/all-hardware/

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Thanks Tom and ooba. I haven't had a chance to mess with the chest yet but when do I'll compare. I'd really like to find old original pieces so they'd match in patina but I'd bet that's a long shot.

 

[ed4banger]

Thanks Tom and ooba. I haven't had a chance to mess with the chest yet but when do I'll compare. I'd really like to find old original pieces so they'd match in patina but I'd bet that's a long shot.

The Gerstner corners are a good match for the corners, at least on my newer heritage box. I didn't replace any, but did buy a complete set.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'd really like to find old original pieces so they'd match in patina but I'd bet that's a long shot.

Long, but not improbable. As you may recall from following my resto thread, I actually found a second Union "parts" box not too long after I found the objective box. I salvaged a few things off of it and sold it to someone else for the parts he needed. I will definitely keep my eyes peeled for you.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Thanks Ed. Does your front cover pull have the hinged "finger ring" or is it just a convex dish?

Lugz: I hope so. This thing is way down in the queue line for doing anything to it so I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for a basket case with the parts I need. Unfortunately, flea markets around me pretty much **** unless I happen to be looking for Chi-Com rip off clothing, fruits or veggies, 10,000 oz boxes of laundry detergent, or things that probably should be hauled to the dump. Once in a while I get lucky.

 

[bmwrd0]

I have had this old box sitting in my shop, wondering what to do with it. It would be a pretty serious restoration, for a not very special chest.


I was going to put it up for sale with a bunch of other boxes I have ended up with that might be worth something to someone, but if the corners have the patina you need you are welcome to it.

Now, I know I am out on the west coast, so it isn't just a "run out and picked this up" kinda deal, but if you are will to pay for shipping, it's yours.

And I can even sit on it while you think.

 

[ed4banger]

Thanks Ed. Does your front cover pull have the hinged "finger ring" or is it just a convex dish?

Concave dish. Funny, just now noticed I have an incorrect fastener on this.....

 

[Gear Wolf]

Managed to piece together this Craftsman amber handle set from 1939. This is easiest set to assemble I guess since it didn't include the 3/8" ratchet. Still looking for that one

Ed, that piece you are looking for DOES in fact exist. I wound up getting it from MrCraftsmanTools about 2 years ago. In fact, there are a few variations of pieces that received the "amber" treatment that weren't depicted in any of those brochures or catalogs.

A lot of weird things were going on between 1938 through 1940 for the brand. I wound up finding a previously unknown piece in an oddball seasonal catalog. It will be neat to talk about in the future.

I hope everyone is well!

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Thanks Ed. That's what I thought but wasn't sure.

Thanks for the very generous offer Beemer. I think I'll wait it out and see if something pops up local. The Union box is wayyyyyyyy down the list for TLC so time is on my side but thanks again for the offer!

 

[Smokeshow69]

Ed, that piece you are looking for DOES in fact exist. I wound up getting it from MrCraftsmanTools about 2 years ago. In fact, there are a few variations of pieces that received the "amber" treatment that weren't depicted in any of those brochures or catalogs.

A lot of weird things were going on between 1938 through 1940 for the brand. I wound up finding a previously unknown piece in an oddball seasonal catalog. It will be neat to talk about in the future.

I hope everyone is well!

How soon into the future? (waiting with baited breath )...

 

[ed4banger]

Found this long-C circle H 1/4" driver in a box of junk tools. I've looked through some of the 1940's catalogs, but haven't found it there yet. Did find an indication that this may have been a 1942 item, part of the master deluxe set, but have not verified that. A Member of the FB Cman page posted this worthpoint page which makes that suggestion.

 

[drivesitfar]

Ed: the guys over on the PLUMB thread have been posting up pics of Plvmb pebbled screwdrivers and your long C sort of looks like it's got that pebble design in behind the name. I wonder if Plvmb made these for Sears?

 

[ed4banger]

Ed: the guys over on the PLUMB thread have been posting up pics of Plvmb pebbled screwdrivers and your long C sort of looks like it's got that pebble design in behind the name. I wonder if Plvmb made these for Sears?

I don't think so, circle H is New Britain. Always possible though.

 

[d42jeep]

There is some resemblance to the period New Britain spinner.
-Don

 

[ed4banger]

There is some resemblance to the period New Britain spinner.
-Don

Wow, sure is.

 

[Nutria]

~1936 lathe

 

[Smokeshow69]

~1936 lathe

This thing just oozes coolness! Nice work!

 

[Outlawmws]

That lathe looks great! I have one also, but not set up and not nearly as nice!

 

[LesserSon]

Hmm...is this home-made, or is there really a circle-H Yankee adapter? I’m guessing home-made, and now I have to dig up a square ratchet plug to test it.

 

[Outlawmws]

I would say home brew, a factory bit would certainly be a male drive.

So someone needed to drive 1/4" square head screws?

 

[Nutria]

Smokes and Outlaw, thanks for the comments.

The motor is about 8-10 years newer than the lathe. The lathe sits on Delta legs, and the laminated cherry boards are from a salvaged countertop. The adjustable motor mount was adapted from a Rockwell table saw in the junkyard.

Outlaw, I think that you'll like using your lathe when you get it set up. These old Craftsman lathes are easily outclassed by newer/better/more expensive machines, but they work pretty well, and mine gets frequent use. The last thing that I turned was actually a motor shaft cover for the lathe motor. The gel poly is now dry, so I just added the cherry Pinocchio nose to the motor.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Nice lathe set up Nutria. LS, +1 on on the home brew Circle H.

 

[Provincial]

I picked up this box at the flea yesterday.

Based on Don's photo in post #2943, I think this came from New Britain, but the blue paint says older Craftsman. Perhaps it contained a BE-marked 1/4" drive set?

 

[ooba tooba]

Just bought this oil can. I thought it might qualify because of the lettering style.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Provincial, you're correct, that clamshell would have had a BE or H 1/4d set.

Ed, that spinner is a cool piece. What info do you have that it may have been included in the Master Deluxe set? Looking at the catalog drawing and reading the contents list, I don't see it. The catalog could, of course, be lacking as they often are.

 

[Nutria]

ooba, that is a nice oil can. I'll have to keep my eyes out for one.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

There is some resemblance to the period New Britain spinner.

The question, though, is which period?

As you know, I have the same midget spinner. The dilemma, in my opinion, is the shape and the part number.

The midget spinner in the 1940 New Britain catalog is shown as having a black wooden handle with a conventional shape, and it had part number NM-63. The 1948 NONE BETTER catalog shows the same black wooden spinner with part number M-63 and an optional amber handle (not pictured) with part number M-64. The 1953 New Britain catalog shows a sleek tapered amber spinner styled like our NM-62's, but bearing part number NM-64. No more wood handles. Based on shape, I have always tended to think of my NM-62 as a very late 1940's or even early 1950's spinner. Every spinner NB shows in a catalog prior to 1953 is the black wood handled spinner with an optional amber-handled spinner they don't show. But the other midget drive tool with a handle, the M/NM-38, a flexible spinner, does have an amber handle. And it is the conventional type, like a typical screwdriver handle. Not sleek and tapered.

For those reasons, I would tend to think Ed's spinner as most likely going in that same bucket as the other very very late 1940's NB-made Craftsman tools that look like next-generation NB tools instead of Long C NB tools. They are always Circle-H, never BE. Like the Fors ratchet, for example.

But, that NM-62 part number could be a foil.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

I agree Lugz, which is why I question the possibility of Ed's spinner being a component of the Super Deluxe set (39-42). All of the amber drive tools I've seen have been BE. I'm becoming more and more convinced (but can't prove) that there was a line of demarkation between BE and H marked New Britain tools. I don't think they were produced concurrently. Nothing (that I've seen) early-stage is H and nothing late-stage is BE.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Working off Lugz's mention of the Fors rat era, I found this image in the 49 tool catalog. Different font on the logo but obviously the same handle. I haven't back-tracked yet to see the from-to dates for this piece.

 

[ed4banger]

I agree Lugz, which is why I question the possibility of Ed's spinner being a component of the Super Deluxe set (39-42). All of the amber drive tools I've seen have been BE. I'm becoming more and more convinced (but can't prove) that there was a line of demarkation between BE and H marked New Britain tools. I don't think they were produced concurrently. Nothing (that I've seen) early-stage is H and nothing late-stage is BE.

Ed, that spinner is a cool piece. What info do you have that it may have been included in the Master Deluxe set? Looking at the catalog drawing and reading the contents list, I don't see it. The catalog could, of course, be lacking as they often are.

I also have doubts that that amber driver is part of the super deluxe kit. The circle H as I understood it was made later. The only info I had suggesting t was a part of that kit was the worthpoint page I posted with the driver pic. I'm taking that Worthpoint post with a grain of salt. Found that driver in the '49 catalog, I thought circle H ended in '47 or '48 with introduction of -V-. I looked at '42 to '48 catalogs and didn't see it, but I could of missed it.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Regardless, it's a very cool and unique piece. If I were to ignore the Long C logo on yours, I'd say it was a late innovation on the part of NB to show Sears they could be "modern" as they did with the Fors rat. The logo on yours throws me. I have these two spinners which are late 40s-early 50s. Obviously, the handles on these line up with the screwdrivers of that period. The longer one has a broached handle, the stubby does not. There wasn't a "hole" to fill with the advent of the spinner like yours, they already had a source for them. An odd and very interesting piece you've got Ed. EDIT: The last time I see NB goods of any type sold in a catalog is in the 49 Big Book. They sold a set in the 2 drawer tool cabinet that was a mix of NB and MDF drive tools. I take that as the last ditch effort to clear out remaining stock of NB goods. The Long C logo went away even before the change to MDF though. Very late NB tools (like your Fors rat) use =CRAFTSMAN= logo with the Circle H makers mark (or "contract mark" may be a better term for the way Sears tools were stamped).