Shop air lines

[thejudges69]

Did a search and came up with nothing recent. My old shop had maxline rapid air system. I installed it 5 years ago. Is it still the best option? I'm seeing guys using pex, but I'm concerned it won't hold the 180psi. Copper maybe an option, but pricey. Any other suggestions for shop air?

I'm running a 7.5hp 80 gallon compressor, up to a 1 inch impact.

 

[58Yeoman]

I guess that I'm lucky in that my shop is 40' long, and I've got a 50' hose reel in the corner by the compressor.

 

[Grimpala]

I'd go with PVC personally, but make sure it gets plenty of direct sun exposure to maintain the proper flexibility to contain all the psi's.

 

[thejudges69]

I'd go with PVC personally, but make sure it gets plenty of direct sun exposure to maintain the proper flexibility to contain all the psi's.

Figure that's likely the cheapest option. Everyone gets complimentary safety glasses and bulletproof vest upon entry.

 

[metlmunchr]

Minimum burst strength for PEX is 475psi to meet ASTM standards for 3/4" and larger. PEX-A burst strength is near twice that pressure.

IMO, running full output pressure of the compressor on a shop air system in an attempt to overcome pressure drop caused by choke points such as undersize quick couplers is a mistake. It causes you to have to use regulators at multiple locations around the shop to avoid excess pressure that shortens the life of many air tools, and still doesn't fully solve the issue of inadequate air supply to air hogs like 1" impact wrenches.

I know because I've done the same thing myself. I added tees and 2nd valved connections at 3 drops in areas where I might need to use a 1" impact, and the ball valves on these have 3/4" twist lock connectors as used with large portable compressors. I can get the full torque, about 2500 ft-lbs, out of my wrench with this setup running 110 psi system pressure. In the past, I'd open the bypass valve around my main regulator to put 160+ psi on the system, and with the wrench plugged into a standard quick coupling it still wouldn't come close to providing the torque the wrench is capable of. I rebuild hydraulic cylinders fairly often, and torque specs of 1500 to 2000 ft-lbs on nuts retaining the pistons aren't unusual, so I need everything the wrench can do.

Once I didn't need the higher pressure for anything in the shop, I reset the pressure switch on my 10hp compressor to cycle between 115 and 145 psi where it had previously been operating between 145 and 175. This greatly reduced the operating temperature of the compressor as well as the max loads on the moving parts of the pump, both of which should extend the life of the machine.

 

[cvairwerks]

Something to remember is that the ASTM specs for PEX are only for an incompressible liquid. None of the manufacturers claim it has a rating for compressible gases. It's not going to fail like PVC, but do be aware that the hydrostatic pressure rating drops almost 1 psig per degree of temp above 73F. Per the ASTM ratings, at 73F, it's good for a max of 160 psig... You're on your own with using in a gas service...

 

[thejudges69]

Minimum burst strength for PEX is 475psi to meet ASTM standards for 3/4" and larger. PEX-A burst strength is near twice that pressure.

IMO, running full output pressure of the compressor on a shop air system in an attempt to overcome pressure drop caused by choke points such as undersize quick couplers is a mistake. It causes you to have to use regulators at multiple locations around the shop to avoid excess pressure that shortens the life of many air tools, and still doesn't fully solve the issue of inadequate air supply to air hogs like 1" impact wrenches.

I know because I've done the same thing myself. I added tees and 2nd valved connections at 3 drops in areas where I might need to use a 1" impact, and the ball valves on these have 3/4" twist lock connectors as used with large portable compressors. I can get the full torque, about 2500 ft-lbs, out of my wrench with this setup running 110 psi system pressure. In the past, I'd open the bypass valve around my main regulator to put 160+ psi on the system, and with the wrench plugged into a standard quick coupling it still wouldn't come close to providing the torque the wrench is capable of. I rebuild hydraulic cylinders fairly often, and torque specs of 1500 to 2000 ft-lbs on nuts retaining the pistons aren't unusual, so I need everything the wrench can do.

Once I didn't need the higher pressure for anything in the shop, I reset the pressure switch on my 10hp compressor to cycle between 115 and 145 psi where it had previously been operating between 145 and 175. This greatly reduced the operating temperature of the compressor as well as the max loads on the moving parts of the pump, both of which should extend the life of the machine.

I had 8 drops in my old shop with wide open lines everywhere and never had a pressure drop issue. I could run a big impact while someone else is running a die grinder with no issues. I don't follow the ASTM stuff cause I'm not a commercial shop.

 

[thejudges69]

Something to remember is that the ASTM specs for PEX are only for an incompressible liquid. None of the manufacturers claim it has a rating for compressible gases. It's not going to fail like PVC, but do be aware that the hydrostatic pressure rating drops almost 1 psig per degree of temp above 73F. Per the ASTM ratings, at 73F, it's good for a max of 160 psig... You're on your own with using in a gas service...

And that's why I'm asking. I'll spend the money for rapid air again, unless something better and cheaper had come along. My rapid air system worked great with no complaints.

 

[cvairwerks]

The ASTM specs are what rates the pipe/tubing or whatever. What people didn't understand, until you showed them the info on the specification for PVC, that the ratings were for water only.

I can't comment on whether to use pex or not, as there are several versions of it and I haven't looked at what the differences are. I know people are using it, as well as air brake tubing and certain types of nylon tubing, and all are susceptible to having problems with UV exposure.

I've got a couple of very air hungry items in and for my shop, so pex isn't a consideration for my system.


BTW... according to RapidAIr's current price sheet, they will be raising prices 5% in January.....

 

[racecougar]

The Maxline kits are cheap, they're specifically made for this task, and they look and function well once installed.

 

[nickstar]

I say go with the rapid air as well it is easy to use and Northern Tool runs sales often and if Use their coupons you get 100 ft for under $200.00. I am pleased with mine, I use with an emax 7.5hp 80 gallon compressor no issues so far.

 

[thejudges69]

I say go with the rapid air as well it is easy to use and Northern Tool runs sales often and if Use their coupons you get 100 ft for under $200.00. I am pleased with mine, I use with an emax 7.5hp 80 gallon compressor no issues so far.

Do you lose pressure? Mine always leaked off and I could never find a leak. Probably go back with it then. I'll need 400'. But is what it is.

 

[racecougar]

Do you lose pressure? Mine always leaked off and I could never find a leak. Probably go back with it then. I'll need 400'. But is what it is.

What level of leak are we talking about here? Did you have your hoses valved off (isolated) from the system, or were they a potential loss point?

My system consists of nearly 100' of 3/4 Maxline. I have ball valves at each drop to render the hoses "dead" when not in use. I also have a ball valve at the outlet of the compressor tank. With all valves closed, the system will drop from 100 psi to 65 psi after seven days, which isn't anything worth worrying about.

 

[thejudges69]

What level of leak are we talking about here? Did you have your hoses valved off (isolated) from the system, or were they a potential loss point?

My system consists of nearly 100' of 3/4 Maxline. I have ball valves at each drop to render the hoses "dead" when not in use. I also have a ball valve at the outlet of the compressor tank. With all valves closed, the system will drop from 100 psi to 65 psi after seven days, which isn't anything worth worrying about.

Like I'm not that involved with my air system. Yes it has a ball valve shut off at the compressor. Loses 180 psi in 24 hours. I don't shut off the drops cause it's a pain in the ***.

 

[racecougar]

180 psi to 0 psi in 24 hours is a leak worth finding, IMO. If your hoses remain hooked up, I'd be looking at the couplers first.

The reason I installed ball valves at the drops was mainly for the fear that a hose fails at some point and smacks one of my cars. This way, the hose is only "live" when I'm using it.

 

[thejudges69]

180 psi to 0 psi in 24 hours is a leak worth finding, IMO. If your hoses remain hooked up, I'd be looking at the couplers first.

The reason I installed ball valves at the drops was mainly for the fear that a hose fails at some point and smacks one of my cars. This way, the hose is only "live" when I'm using it.

I don't leave my system charged. So it it blows the tank exploded. I change manifolds with hoses and hate dealing with shut offs on each drop.

 

[racecougar]

What is going from 180 psi to 0 psi if you're dropping the system to atmosphere each night? I don't follow.

Really this isn't important to the original topic, but I guess I'm curious now.

 

[thejudges69]

What is going from 180 psi to 0 psi if you're dropping the system to atmosphere each night? I don't follow.

Really this isn't important to the original topic, but I guess I'm curious now.

The drops are draining the pressure. I have a gauge in the furthest point and it will be at zero in 24 hours. The tank is still charged. Shoulda worded that different.

 

[thammel]

I just finished mine with copper pipe. I went this way because fittings are easily available and I could customize as I pleased. I used 3/4" for the min lines and 1/2" for the drops. I have a total of 5 drops with milton quick disconnects and a drip leg with ball valve at each drop. I got really good at soldering by the time I was done!! And I learned that for the unions, you really need to crank down to get a very good seal. In price comparison with rapid air fastpipe, the copper was about the same or actually cheaper.

 

[nickstar]

it does lose pressure but it takes about three days. I shut the ball valve at the compressor off when I am not using it. The compressor never loses pressure I left it off for 2 weeks on vacation and the tank still had the same pressure. I am too lazy to track down a leak that is that slow.

 

[nickstar]

I don't leave my system charged. So it it blows the tank exploded. I change manifolds with hoses and hate dealing with shut offs on each drop.

I also do not leave air in the lines when not in use, I just open the valve and the system is c instantly full.

 

[Yankee2bbq]

I go with TP tools and their set up and supplies:

Metal Piping eliminates moisture and air volume problems - TP Tools & Equipment

Metal Piping eliminates moisture and air volume problems

www.tptools.com

 

[thejudges69]

I go with TP tools and their set up and supplies:

Metal Piping eliminates moisture and air volume problems - TP Tools & Equipment

Metal Piping eliminates moisture and air volume problems

www.tptools.com

Truthfully I live 20 mins from them and they're more money then northern, but they do have decent availability for product.

 

[pbon]

I did copper as well but that was several years ago and I think copper prices are now higher so it takes longer (soldering, turns) and costs more than a than a rapid air kit. I actually had a rapid air kit and some extra parts for it at the time and chose not to use them and run copper instead (about 140’ for 3 runs with 6 drops.

 

[DocsMachine]

The Maxline kits are cheap, they're specifically made for this task, and they look and function well once installed.

-This. Why reinvent the wheel? The Max kits come with fittings, very nice wall mounts, a nice cutter, tubing made and rated for the task, and you get like 100' of it for less than $200. Is saving forty bucks by cobbling something together from Home Depot that important?

I put two 3/4" kits and part of a 1/2" kit, plus a good handful of extras in my shop. Probably 150' of run, eight drops with 11 QDs (two dual-outlets on either side of the car doors) a water separator, and a second regulator/separator, a lot of extra wall clips, etc. Total cost was under a grand, and at this point it's been pressurized 24-7 since September of 2018 with zero issues.

If I don't use any air, the compressor might run as often as once a month, maybe once every three weeks.

One of the best upgrades I ever added to the shop.

Doc.

 

[thejudges69]

-This. Why reinvent the wheel? The Max kits come with fittings, very nice wall mounts, a nice cutter, tubing made and rated for the task, and you get like 100' of it for less than $200. Is saving forty bucks by cobbling something together from Home Depot that important?

I put two 3/4" kits and part of a 1/2" kit, plus a good handful of extras in my shop. Probably 150' of run, eight drops with 11 QDs (two dual-outlets on either side of the car doors) a water separator, and a second regulator/separator, a lot of extra wall clips, etc. Total cost was under a grand, and at this point it's been pressurized 24-7 since September of 2018 with zero issues.

If I don't use any air, the compressor might run as often as once a month, maybe once every three weeks.

One of the best upgrades I ever added to the shop.

Doc.

Reinvent the wheel? Who's reinventing anything? My kit was installed 5 years ago, things are changing daily, new products launching and leaving the market. It's not about reinventing anything. It's about not knowing what's new on the market.

 

[STREETFIGHTER50]

Most of the systems I’ve seen were copper.

 

[Metal-Marc]

I use copper, which is good at cooling down the air and cool air holds less moisture.

 

[nadogail]

I must admit that my air distribution system is a is a hose run through the trusses of my garage. In one corner of the garage is a 20 gallon vertical tank compressor with an attached Tee fitting feeding a coil hose an a 25' hose to the other end of the same wall. if I need air outside the shop, I plug in another hose or roll out my smaller compressor that is on wheels.
For big remote jobs; the compressor, saws, planer, welder and generator all fit into the van.

 

[TTMotorsports]

I ran PEX in my old shop without a regulator at 145psi and never had a problem with it in the 3 years I had my shop.

 

[jdm5]

Hey @nickstar - looking at your picture the filter/regulator makes me nervous hanging out like that - do they have any physical supports?

it does lose pressure but it takes about three days. I shut the ball valve at the compressor off when I am not using it. The compressor never loses pressure I left it off for 2 weeks on vacation and the tank still had the same pressure. I am too lazy to track down a leak that is that slow.

 

[thejudges69]

it does lose pressure but it takes about three days. I shut the ball valve at the compressor off when I am not using it. The compressor never loses pressure I left it off for 2 weeks on vacation and the tank still had the same pressure. I am too lazy to track down a leak that is that slow.

Everyone I have spoke to has said that a moisture filter is useless when coming right off the compressor. The claim is that the air is warm leaving the tank and doesn't condensate until it's in the lines and cooled down. What kind of moisture do you get out of that being mounted like that?

 

[DocsMachine]

Reinvent the wheel? Who's reinventing anything?

-The response was specifically to those looking to use, among other things, hardware-store PEX and the like. Yes, it can be done, and relatively inexpensively, but the Max-Line kits come AS a kit. For most typical installs, one kit gives you pretty much everything you need, save for the actual QDs, some drywall screws and maybe some teflon tape.

My particular setup was a bit more complex than most (remote-install compressor, multiple rooms, etc.) but if I'd been doing a typical small shop or 2-car garage, just being able to order one box and put it all up in a weekend would have been well worth the extra forty bucks over a DIY build.

Trust me, I love DIY as much as the next guy, but in many cases, I also like buying a part or tool, installing it, and moving on to the fun projects.

Doc.

 

[Oldbear]

I'm late for the party but... I use the Maxi-air or whatever brand I bought 5 years ago. I also use truck air brake line (Synflex brand). I can get it in the blue that is close to my original system. The air brake push-to-connect fittings are far better than the ones that come with the airline kits. It allows easy changes to your setup. I have over 100ft of line that goes from my compressor around the shop ceiling with drops and a run through some underground conduit to the old shop too. No issues after 5 years.

 

[thejudges69]

-The response was specifically to those looking to use, among other things, hardware-store PEX and the like. Yes, it can be done, and relatively inexpensively, but the Max-Line kits come AS a kit. For most typical installs, one kit gives you pretty much everything you need, save for the actual QDs, some drywall screws and maybe some teflon tape.

My particular setup was a bit more complex than most (remote-install compressor, multiple rooms, etc.) but if I'd been doing a typical small shop or 2-car garage, just being able to order one box and put it all up in a weekend would have been well worth the extra forty bucks over a DIY build.

Trust me, I love DIY as much as the next guy, but in many cases, I also like buying a part or tool, installing it, and moving on to the fun projects.

Doc.

The only downfall to the rapid air is the cost. I need 400' to do it and that's 500 bucks, plus all the additional fittings, I end up close to a grand in the whole system. It is nice and does work well.

 

[nickstar]

Everyone I have spoke to has said that a moisture filter is useless when coming right off the compressor. The claim is that the air is warm leaving the tank and doesn't condensate until it's in the lines and cooled down. What kind of moisture do you get out of that being mounted like that?

Not much I drain it once a month but not much comes out, I also I have a drain at each outlet (3) but pretty much nothing comes out of those.

 

[nickstar]

Hey @nickstar - looking at your picture the filter/regulator makes me nervous hanging out like that - do they have any physical supports?

No support but that's not bending those are brass fittings it is very solid.

 

[Wrench97]

I use D.O.T. nylon air line that is used for truck air brake systems, easy to run, fittings commonly available.

 

[welder4956]

The only downfall to the rapid air is the cost. I need 400' to do it and that's 500 bucks, plus all the additional fittings, I end up close to a grand in the whole system. It is nice and does work well.

I just did a 38 ft. run with 3/4" Type L copper and five 1/2" drops. Not counting ball valves and quick connect fittings, I have close to $500 just in copper pipe and fittings. If you can get 400' for the same price, that is a good deal. After having done all those solder connections, I could have run rapid air for the whole shop in less time than it took to fit and solder the main run with no drops.

 

[ericm]

Everyone I have spoke to has said that a moisture filter is useless when coming right off the compressor. The claim is that the air is warm leaving the tank and doesn't condensate until it's in the lines and cooled down. What kind of moisture do you get out of that being mounted like that?

The usefulness of the filter depends on the temp of the air going through it. The cooler the air is the more water vapor will condense out of it.

If your usage is such that the air going through the filter has cooled to the ambient air temp in the shop, the filter will be removing the maximum amount of water. No amount of piping after the tank will cool the air more than it already is, so no more water vapor will condense. Which means that if your use is small, like an air nailer, and the tank is a reasonable size, the air leaving the tank won't be all that much warmer than ambient and the filter will be seeing most of the water as liquid and can filter it. On the other hand if you're running a sand blaster and the compressor is going flat out to keep up, the air in the tank is going to get pretty warm, a good amount of the water will still be vapor when it goes through the filter, so it will sail through and then condense in the hose and clog your gun.