Air compressor for the new shop

[Maxcustody]

UPDATE 2/14/22. Thank you ALL for the information and help in my decision.

I ordered an Eaton 7.5HP 80 Gal. air compressor. This is the one here:

7.5 HP Quiet Air Compressor, Single Phase, 80 Gallon Tank, Vertical, Industrial

Eaton Compressor carries an impressive line of quiet air compressors, including this single phase 7.5 HP Quiet Air Compressor with 80 Gallon Tank.

eatoncompressor.com

I have been reading thru a ton of old threads on air compressors. I am trying to do all my research now and plan ahead, I only want to do this once and do it right.

After reading, I have found my current mobile compressor (old, but in good shape) Central Pneumatic 2.5 HP, 21 Gallon compressor does not have the correct CFM for the air impact guns I will have. So in researching I thought, no big deal get one will do the job................. and this is where the overload of information comes in.

I know there are a ton of good and not so good compressors in a large range of prices. Yes, I want to do this right and I guess I am contradicting my other statement of "buy once, cry once", however I am not a professional. For current and future needs, it seems a 3.5 or a 5HP, 60 gallon vertical will fit the bill and hopefully taken care of, will outlast me.........

It looks like Quincy would be a good option and they seem to have good reviews. I understand this needs to be hardwired to work correctly and be covered under warranty. I will have my electrician take care of this when he does the building wiring, then I know it will be done correctly. There are a couple of questions in regards to this. This is not electrical code related more of ease of use and safety questions. In my County and State, I do not have to have any permits etc.

- Being hardwired does it need an emergency shut off switch?
-magnetic motor starters with overload protection? Is this for single and two stage compressors? Is there a difference? I would guess the amp rating needs to be equivalent or higher to your compressor? Kind of lost on this one?? I keep reading the switch they come with does not last or is not sufficient for constant on/off use?

I will stop at this point and see where this goes and what suggestions and comments all of you may have. Thank you.

 

[Matt018888]

Quincy is nice. You don't need a emergency shutoff but a square D safety switch with the lever disconnect is nice for not wearing out your pressure switch. And some of them have built in fuses. Single stage tends to put out a max psi around 125-140 or so with piston style pumps. A 2 stage can get around 180psi. Which gives you more usable air with the same realestate. My 2 stage does seem to run a little hotter thus producing more moister in the air lines. Typically you want to use 80% of the intended breaker at load. If I had to guess most 60 gallon compressors don't exceed 5hp and do not really load the breaker untill around 90psi so a 220v 30amp breaker should do.

 

[Maxcustody]

Quincy is nice. You don't need a emergency shutoff but a square D safety switch with the lever disconnect is nice for not wearing out your pressure switch. And some of them have built in fuses. Single stage tends to put out a max psi around 125-140 or so with piston style pumps. A 2 stage can get around 180psi. Which gives you more usable air with the same realestate. My 2 stage does seem to run a little hotter thus producing more moister in the air lines. Typically you want to use 80% of the intended breaker at load. If I had to guess most 60 gallon compressors don't exceed 5hp and do not really load the breaker untill around 90psi so a 220v 30amp breaker should do.

Thank you. I think I am better off in the long run to go with the 5HP 2 stage. For a difference of only$700 or so, I think it would be a smarter purchase.

 

[Matt018888]

If the cfms are right pull the trigger. A good compressor can make a huge difference in you ability to work. This is coming from a guy who has like 12 lol

 

[EngineerNate]

What's your budget and which Quincy are you looking at?

In the ~$2-3k range, I think Champion probably makes the best pumps. The big pressure lube Quincy's are second to none but their QT line is underwhelming.

 

[bsaint]

So like a wicked heavy duty compressor is great and all if you think you're gonna need to duty cycle out of it. But if you run your compressor to run an impact gun its not gonna need to turn on much if you have a nice storage tank. 80 to 100 gallons. You can have a small pump and a nice big tank you should be all set for intermittent use tools.

If you have constant use tools, that's a different story. Then the tank size doesn't matter much. Tank size is good for varying flows or as a bump in a VFD application. But If you use a 90 psi 5cfm impact gun a total of 5 minutes, you've only used 25 cfm of air. An 80 gallon tank at 150 PSI has 102 cubic feet of air. The pump wouldn't even turn on if that's all you needed. So whats the point of a 100% duty cycle pump money if it doesn't need to run?

 

[Walkers]

Thank you. I think I am better off in the long run to go with the 5HP 2 stage. For a difference of only$700 or so, I think it would be a smarter purchase.

You are always better off with greater capacity and pressure, because you can’t ever use cfm that you didn’t buy. A 5 horse is generally a pretty good size.

 

[Maxcustody]

What's your budget and which Quincy are you looking at?

In the ~$2-3k range, I think Champion probably makes the best pumps. The big pressure lube Quincy's are second to none but their QT line is underwhelming.

I am looking at this one...................It is the QT54. Underwhelming how? Not good?

Quincy Compressor 2021116649 5 HP 60 Gal 175 Max PSI QT-54 Pro Two-Stage Stationary Electric (230 Volt 1 Phase) Reciprocating Air Compressor with Vertical Tank | Ferguson Home

Save on the Quincy Compressor 2021116649 from Ferguson Home. Low Prices + Fast & Free Shipping on Most Orders. Find reviews, expert advice, manuals, specs & more.

www.aircompressorsdirect.com

 

[Maxcustody]

So like a wicked heavy duty compressor is great and all if you think you're gonna need to duty cycle out of it. But if you run your compressor to run an impact gun its not gonna need to turn on much if you have a nice storage tank. 80 to 100 gallons. You can have a small pump and a nice big tank you should be all set for intermittent use tools.

If you have constant use tools, that's a different story. Then the tank size doesn't matter much. Tank size is good for varying flows or as a bump in a VFD application. But If you use a 90 psi 5cfm impact gun a total of 5 minutes, you've only used 25 cfm of air. An 80 gallon tank at 150 PSI has 102 cubic feet of air. The pump wouldn't even turn on if that's all you needed. So whats the point of a 100% duty cycle pump money if it doesn't need to run?

Thanks, this is good info. Exactly what I am looking to find out. So this Quincy is overkill it sounds like for my needs? What would you recommend to run tools intermittently?

 

[Maxcustody]

You are always better off with greater capacity and pressure, because you can’t ever use cfm that you didn’t buy. A 5 horse is generally a pretty good size.

Thank you. My thinking is buy for now and the future and not have to "upgrade" later.

 

[bsaint]

Thanks, this is good info. Exactly what I am looking to find out. So this Quincy is overkill it sounds like for my needs? What would you recommend to run tools intermittently?

As someone who has rebuilt many many pumps (my tenures at a A&M Compressed Air in Uxbridge MA and Pneumatic Systems in West Hartford CT) a pressure lube quincy is only worth it to someone like us when its used and from someone that doesn't know what they have lol. I got my 2 quincy QRs for $125 with a 200g tank. Replacement parts alone are a **** clencher.

To recommend, what is the most used constant use tool you have?

 

[ScaldedDog]

Have you looked at Eaton? If noise, or the lack of it, is important to you, I'd suggest their Quiet Air. I have one in a metal building - as in metal walls on the inside - and it has been terrific.

Where in WV are you? I grew up in Cross Lanes. GO HERD!

Mark

 

[EngineerNate]

I am looking at this one...................It is the QT54. Underwhelming how? Not good?

Quincy Compressor 2021116649 5 HP 60 Gal 175 Max PSI QT-54 Pro Two-Stage Stationary Electric (230 Volt 1 Phase) Reciprocating Air Compressor with Vertical Tank | Ferguson Home

Save on the Quincy Compressor 2021116649 from Ferguson Home. Low Prices + Fast & Free Shipping on Most Orders. Find reviews, expert advice, manuals, specs & more.

www.aircompressorsdirect.com

The QT line tends to be noisy and run at higher RPM, and they use reed valves which aren't as good as the disk valves in the QR series.

It's still probaby more compressor than most of us need but if you're spending the money... Give me a moment I'll try to find a champion the same price.

 

[Maxcustody]

As someone who has rebuilt many many pumps (my tenures at a A&M Compressed Air in Uxbridge MA and Pneumatic Systems in West Hartford CT) a pressure lube quincy is only worth it to someone like us when its used and from someone that doesn't know what they have lol. I got my 2 quincy QRs for $125 with a 200g tank. Replacement parts alone are a **** clencher.

To recommend, what is the most used constant use tool you have?

Matco impact wrench 4.9 CFM

 

[Maxcustody]

Have you looked at Eaton? If noise, or the lack of it, is important to you, I'd suggest their Quiet Air. I have one in a metal building - as in metal walls on the inside - and it has been terrific.

Where in WV are you? I grew up in Cross Lanes. GO HERD!

Mark

I have been reviewing several brands, I have not looked at Eaton. I will take a look. We are in Berkeley Springs. We lived in Denver in 2003.

 

[bsaint]

Matco impact wrench 4.9 CFM

Never run a cutoff wheel or DA?

 

[Maxcustody]

The QT line tends to be noisy and run at higher RPM, and they use reed valves which aren't as good as the disk valves in the QR series.

It's still probaby more compressor than most of us need but if you're spending the money... Give me a moment I'll try to find a champion the same price.

It sounds like for my needs I am looking at the wrong compressors? Just trying to get a reliable one which will fit my needs. I guess I really only need something that will do at least 8 CFM?

 

[EngineerNate]

For some reason I thought the QT54 was pushing into the $2000+ range new.

If I were buying a new in 60 gallon, this would be at the top of my list:

Champion 5 HP Air Compressor Two Stage, 17 ACFM @ 175 PSI, 60 Gallon Air Tank, 230-Volt, 1-Phase | VR5-6

<p><strong>BRAND NEW</strong> New 5 HP Champion R Series | 60 Gallon Vertical Tank 17.3 ACFM | Operating at 734 RPM with the Champion R-15B Pump</p>

www.compressorworld.com

In the same price range, the Saylor Beall 705 series pumps are also very very nice.

 

[Maxcustody]

Never run a cutoff wheel or DA?

Yes and I have those, but unsure of the CFM. My shop is getting built in April.

 

[Maxcustody]

For some reason I thought the QT54 was pushing into the $2000+ range new.

If I were buying a new in 60 gallon, this would be at the top of my list:

Champion 5 HP Air Compressor Two Stage, 17 ACFM @ 175 PSI, 60 Gallon Air Tank, 230-Volt, 1-Phase | VR5-6

<p><strong>BRAND NEW</strong> New 5 HP Champion R Series | 60 Gallon Vertical Tank 17.3 ACFM | Operating at 734 RPM with the Champion R-15B Pump</p>

www.compressorworld.com

In the same price range, the Saylor Beall 705 series pumps are also very very nice.

Very nice! Out of my budget though, too much for what I need...........................

 

[EngineerNate]

Very nice! Out of my budget though, too much for what I need...........................

That's totally fair.

I bought an old Quincy 340 and plan to rebuild it because I have Tim the Tool man syndrome.

 

[Sumboodie]

So like a wicked heavy duty compressor is great and all if you think you're gonna need to duty cycle out of it. But if you run your compressor to run an impact gun its not gonna need to turn on much if you have a nice storage tank. 80 to 100 gallons. You can have a small pump and a nice big tank you should be all set for intermittent use tools.

If you have constant use tools, that's a different story. Then the tank size doesn't matter much. Tank size is good for varying flows or as a bump in a VFD application. But If you use a 90 psi 5cfm impact gun a total of 5 minutes, you've only used 25 cfm of air. An 80 gallon tank at 150 PSI has 102 cubic feet of air. The pump wouldn't even turn on if that's all you needed. So whats the point of a 100% duty cycle pump money if it doesn't need to run?

Exactly.

A 60 gal $500 home jobber unit from Lowes will fill 99% of home shop needs.

Only time mine runs a bunch is with the plasma cutter. Most things I use now are cordless anyhow.

 

[Walkers]

Yes and I have those, but unsure of the CFM. My shop is getting built in April.

They are air pigs! Also, once you get a decent compressor it is likely only a matter of time before you want to get a sandblast cabinet.

 

[Maxcustody]

They are air pigs! Also, once you get a decent compressor it is likely only a matter of time before you want to get a sandblast cabinet.

Yes that is the issue, who knows what I might add in the future.....................being on this site, I see something every day I want!

 

[bsaint]

Yes and I have those, but unsure of the CFM. My shop is getting built in April.

Well a cutoff wheel is about 6-7 and a DA is up to 20. So if you Divide 20 by 4 its 5hp. I would get a 5hp two stage machine because like Walkers so awesomely stated, you can't get more CFM outta a pump. You got what you got.

So I would look for a 5hp two stage on an 80 gallon tank. 60 smallest.

You can't go wrong with a GRAY or WHITE Ingersoll Rand T30. DO NOT buy a black one. The only down side is there are finger valves. A Champion R15 pump is an excellent choice. Pocket valves. Iron sleeves in Aluminum jugs. Blind cylinders tho. Also rebranded in Dayton flavor. And also note, not well known pump is the GC and GU pump from Emglo, now Jenny. All cast iron. Pocket valves.

The Saylor Beall I have to say Im not the biggest fan of. We've had a lot of them die. But for your application a 705 would be a nice unit probably trouble free.

Don't forget a dryer. I use desiccant because its not great to run a cheap non cycling refrigerated dryer with no heatload.

But if you're into something used but still parts available for -

Quincy 240
Westinghouse 2byc
Square jug Champion R15
States made DevilBiss (Not Canadian DvAir)
Worthington - High speed but short stroke. They were made for it like Detroit Diesels.
Kellogg American 331tv - Valves are hard to replace.

 

[Walkers]

Yes that is the issue, who knows what I might add in the future.....................being on this site, I see something every day I want!

I have 3 air compressors that I run daily. they all make a bit over 20 CFH. All have lots of hours on them and don’t put out what they used to. I have sometimes coupled my truck to the shop for big sandblast jobs, or run all three when using a couple DAs and in-line body files when I have several guys working at the same time.

 

[Maxcustody]

Well a cutoff wheel is about 6-7 and a DA is up to 20. So if you Divide 20 by 4 its 5hp. I would get a 5hp two stage machine because like Walkers so awesomely stated, you can't get more CFM outta a pump. You got what you got.

So I would look for a 5hp two stage on an 80 gallon tank. 60 smallest.

You can't go wrong with a GRAY or WHITE Ingersoll Rand T30. DO NOT buy a black one. The only down side is there are finger valves. A Champion R15 pump is an excellent choice. Pocket valves. Iron sleeves in Aluminum jugs. Blind cylinders tho. Also rebranded in Dayton flavor. And also note, not well known pump is the GC and GU pump from Emglo, now Jenny. All cast iron. Pocket valves.

The Saylor Beall I have to say Im not the biggest fan of. We've had a lot of them die. But for your application a 705 would be a nice unit probably trouble free.

Don't forget a dryer. I use desiccant because its not great to run a cheap non cycling refrigerated dryer with no heatload.

Thank you great info and a lot more to research. But I would rather learn a ton instead of making a costly mistake!

 

[bsaint]

Thank you great info and a lot more to research. But I would rather learn a ton instead of making a costly mistake!

Good. Its def an investment a lot of people still buy ****.

I added a list of good used machines to my previous post.

 

[Maxcustody]

Good. Its def an investment a lot of people still buy ****.

I added a list of good used machines to my previous post.

Just saw that thanks!

 

[ScaldedDog]

I have been reviewing several brands, I have not looked at Eaton. I will take a look. We are in Berkeley Springs. We lived in Denver in 2003.

I just looked at your build thread. Nice place!!

Mark

 

[Citation]

OP,
What exactly do you plan to do with the compressor here? A 21 gallon tank at 125psi should do a decent with burst loads and most 1/2" impact wrenches. No, it will not keep up with continuous duty but often you don't need that. To put things in perspective, I used a 1/2" IR231 connected to a 4 gallon, 4 cfm compressor to remove a 32mm axle nut on an old car. Yes, the pump needed to refresh the tank before the nut was off (with that compressor it takes 15 seconds). When it came to using my impact wrench I never felt like the 4 gallon compressor was holding me back. It was holding me back when using my air gun to dry stuff, when using my zip wheel or when using my venturi vacuum.

If you objective is to get a new toy (and this is garage journal where that instinct is nurtured for fear it might otherwise die out) that is fine. If you know you will be running nuts off 18 wheelers and dump trucks* non-stop then yeah a bigger compressor is likely needed. Don't be fooled into thinking a single person using a impact wrench to rotate the tires on their F250 needs an 80 gallon, 5hp Champion compressor. Impact wrenches are high demand but very much a burst demand and often a small compressor has no trouble because the burst pressure comes from the tank, not the pump. Natural pauses in your work are sufficient for the pump to refresh the tank. This is in complete contrast to painting or sanding where you hold the trigger down continuously and need the pump to refill the tank AND drive the tool at the same time.

If you haven't tried your current compressor with the new impact wrench, wait and try it first. If you have and feel the pressure drops too much by the time the air gets to the gun, check/replace your hose and/or your regulator.

I agree with another poster saying that, for a home user, almost anything that is 240V is going to be more than sufficient. I can't see any reason why even a 3/4" impact couldn't be run off something like this low end, 60 gallon, 240V compressor (shown as an example)

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-60-Gallon-175-3-7HP-Stationary-Electric-Air-Compressor/5000045529

True 5hp models with magnetic starters looks like real overkill unless there is more to your needs.

*The last/only time I helped change a bearing on the rear axle of a tandem axle dump truck the impact wrench and jack were being powered by a 30 gallon belt drive, 120V compressor that likely delivered 5.5-6.0 cfm. No issues, no waiting.

 

[PoorUB]

Matco impact wrench 4.9 CFM

Actually an impact is one of the lowest consuming air tools. You typically don't grab and impact and hold the trigger for several minutes. Wheel lug nuts are five, one or two second blasts.
Air drills, die grinders, random orbit sanders and even worse, sand blast cabinets are the air hogs.

At any rate a 5 HP is a good size for most users.

 

[Lucid Moments]

I have a cheap Husky 60 gallon 3.7 hp compressor and it has done everything I need it to do. Including some extended run stuff with die grinders. I forget how much I paid for it, but IIRC somewhere between $500 and $600. I grant that it might not outlive me, but then again it might.

 

[Maxcustody]

I just looked at your build thread. Nice place!!

Mark

Thanks Mark!

 

[Maxcustody]

Actually an impact is one of the lowest consuming air tools. You typically don't grab and impact and hold the trigger for several minutes. Wheel lug nuts are five, one or two second blasts.
Air drills, die grinders, random orbit sanders and even worse, sand blast cabinets are the air hogs.

At any rate a 5 HP is a good size for most users.

Thank you! Yes, that is the only tool I was sure of CFM. Since moving here I haven't done much work in the current garage. Building the new shop I am looking toward the future of what may be done...............

 

[Maxcustody]

OP,
What exactly do you plan to do with the compressor here? A 21 gallon tank at 125psi should do a decent with burst loads and most 1/2" impact wrenches. No, it will not keep up with continuous duty but often you don't need that. To put things in perspective, I used a 1/2" IR231 connected to a 4 gallon, 4 cfm compressor to remove a 32mm axle nut on an old car. Yes, the pump needed to refresh the tank before the nut was off (with that compressor it takes 15 seconds). When it came to using my impact wrench I never felt like the 4 gallon compressor was holding me back. It was holding me back when using my air gun to dry stuff, when using my zip wheel or when using my venturi vacuum.

If you objective is to get a new toy (and this is garage journal where that instinct is nurtured for fear it might otherwise die out) that is fine. If you know you will be running nuts off 18 wheelers and dump trucks* non-stop then yeah a bigger compressor is likely needed. Don't be fooled into thinking a single person using a impact wrench to rotate the tires on their F250 needs an 80 gallon, 5hp Champion compressor. Impact wrenches are high demand but very much a burst demand and often a small compressor has no trouble because the burst pressure comes from the tank, not the pump. Natural pauses in your work are sufficient for the pump to refresh the tank. This is in complete contrast to painting or sanding where you hold the trigger down continuously and need the pump to refill the tank AND drive the tool at the same time.

If you haven't tried your current compressor with the new impact wrench, wait and try it first. If you have and feel the pressure drops too much by the time the air gets to the gun, check/replace your hose and/or your regulator.

I agree with another poster saying that, for a home user, almost anything that is 240V is going to be more than sufficient. I can't see any reason why even a 3/4" impact couldn't be run off something like this low end, 60 gallon, 240V compressor (shown as an example)

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-60-Gallon-175-3-7HP-Stationary-Electric-Air-Compressor/5000045529

True 5hp models with magnetic starters looks like real overkill unless there is more to your needs.

*The last/only time I helped change a bearing on the rear axle of a tandem axle dump truck the impact wrench and jack were being powered by a 30 gallon belt drive, 120V compressor that likely delivered 5.5-6.0 cfm. No issues, no waiting.

Thank you! All great points. I just threw out the impact due to this was the only tool I know the cfm. I have had the portable compressor for many years. It has not been used in probably 3 years or more. My current garage has an 80 gallon compressor which is plumbed throughout the garage. Here is the current one. It was here when we bought the house.



I don't know what I don't know....................I am 51 and retired LEO. I am not a mechanic. I am on this site to gain knowledge and learn what can be done. There are so many talented people here and what they can do with tools and projects truly impresses me. Being retired and building a 40x60 shop, I will have opportunities to try new things, who knows what projects I will get into. I will go back to doing all the maintenance on our vehicles and learning to fix and replace parts as needed.

Although we have lived many places, this is the first shop we are building from the ground up, it is exciting! Maybe I am going overboard, LOL. I have already bought new tools with more on the way, as well as a 4 post lift.

 

[EngineerNate]

Based on the pressure rating that Kobalt is a two stage unit and likely close to an actual 5 hp unit based off the CFM rating.

I like the bigger belt drive units because they're less obnoxious on the noise side of things. A 1750 rpm motor turning a pump at ~800 is less acoustically irritating from a sound spectrum standpoint, if not in absolute volume, than a 3450 rpm motor turning a pump at twice the speed or one of the direct drive units.

 

[Maxcustody]

Based on the pressure rating that Kobalt is a two stage unit and likely close to an actual 5 hp unit based off the CFM rating.

I like the bigger belt drive units because they're less obnoxious on the noise side of things. A 1750 rpm motor turning a pump at ~800 is less acoustically irritating from a sound spectrum standpoint, if not in absolute volume, than a 3450 rpm motor turning a pump at twice the speed or one of the direct drive units.

 

[EngineerNate]

Doh, it says two stage right on the sticker.

Got a pic of the motor nameplate?

 

[Maxcustody]

Doh, it says two stage right on the sticker.

Got a pic of the motor nameplate?

I do not, but I will take one later today...............have to check my bucket trap anyway.