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Hex key deep dive

RoninB4

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Are tools designed to be used with the best bolts or the worst bolts? I have never broken a hex key, but I have seen many mangled bolts that were made of cheese, as others have said.
-You've brought up a very good point/question I purposely omitted in my replies to avoid boring everybody. With wide ranges of acceptability it's very difficult to pick ONE brand of fastener to use as the "standard". Back-in-the-day brands like HK and Unbrako were the readily available brands and were of good/consistent quality so these were used. With the rallying cry of "Outsourcing" everything changed and not always for the better. Cold header shops packed it in and went overseas to companies that cared more about the bottom line than having a well respected name for quality products. Steels and the heat treating for them changed which often affected things out in the field.

I've had my share of (IMO) poorly made SHCS that wouldn't have come from HK or Unbrako in the 90's. I've also noticed that some makers (they're always unknown) seemed to have changed the socket dimensions so that some hex keys are a looser fit. Why? My guess is an attempt to boost profits by reducing some sizes that are close to each other. A 5/16 and 8mm are close, so are 3/16 and 5mm. Yes they are different sizes (I can do the math) but hex keys aren't exactly to nominal size either. The reduction in different tooling and eliminating storage of different products can mean more profits. I can see where some whiz kid suggested doing and the corporate bean counters enthusiastically agreed. Either that or there was simply a mix up in packaging, both are equally possible. There is also the distinct possibility of material substitution for fasteners based upon application. Many companies have re-designed products, shaving the factor of safety ever closer to the edge of failure because over-built is wasted money.

Some of the above thoughts apply, some don't. It's difficult to paint with a broad brush and each product/brand has it's own circumstances. Hex keys fall into some of the same conditions as well. Can't speak for other companies but Eklind used a particular type of steel (8650 IIRC) in the 90's. Hex stock in coil was made in the USA by a couple of mills. Another competing maker of hex keys decided to buy up all available supplies of hex keys coil stock, thereby attempting to cut us off at the knees. Eklind had to buy "spot market" stock (not always 8650) available (offshore) in order to maintain production. Was the public notified? Of course not. Do these sort of shenanigans go on across all sorts of manufactured products? Of course they do. Some intentional, some not intentional. There was personality/ego clashing back then, I imagine this sort of thing goes on in many different industries still.

Also important to remember that a SHCS takes a lot of abuse and they must periodically be replaced when the socket begins to "round". The interface between the hex key and the SHCS is one of mutual abuse. The socket slightly deforms the key, Rc hardness comes into play here but that's another long subject and the audience is barely awake as is. The slightly deformed key goes to another SHCS and slightly deforms the socket. They mutually abuse each other until one/both of them need replacing. In stamping dies all SHCS are taken out for periodic sharpening/maintenance on a far more regular basis than any automotive application will ever see. The in/out/in/out cycle of mutual abuse goes well beyond any predictable life cycle expectancy for either. Makers of both take note what is expected of their product, especially when replacement is part of the product life cycle.

"I am surprised that someone who designed tools views them as disposable. Is this true for sockets and wrenches as well, or is that opinion particular to hex keys?"

-I don't believe I called them "disposable", I did refer to hex keys as being "perishable". There's a subtle but distinct difference between the two, to me anyway. What is considered disposable is something that has no useful life left in it and will fail in the function of it's intended design, like nyloc nuts or lock washers. Use them once and they will no longer perform the task they're supposed to do, so you get a new one. All shops I've been in have what are called perishable tooling like drill bits, cutters, and hex keys. They do have a service life but that life can be renewed by proper service maintenance. Drills and cutters aren't thrown away, they're often re-sharpened and ready for another go. Hex keys can be ground back, usually 1-1/2 times the diameter, and they're good as new but a tad shorter. This is done every day in shops across the world as to be considered a common occurrence. They can/are ground back drastically for clearance situations as well, I have several that are "custom" for a particular procedure. I wouldn't normally consider sockets and wrenches to be perishable tooling but I have altered/modified many standard tools to suit a particular application. In design and in the shop I always ask myself "What's more important the tool or the task?". Plan and execute accordingly.

Hope this helped someone somehow.
 
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RoninB4

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I've also was told years ago that Bondhus made the hex tools for Park.
Can't give you a definitive answer because suppliers change depending on how the next contract negotiation goes. I can tell you that during the mid to late 90'a that fold up sets (with hex keys and screwdriver) branded Park were made by Eklind Tool. I changed the stamps and have a few examples in my toolbox. It's called "house branding" and Eklind did that for Blue Point, Mac, Snap-On and a few other brands. Lots of manufacturers do this, it's quite common. Thought you'd want to know.
 

Grant Gunderson

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Can't give you a definitive answer because suppliers change depending on how the next contract negotiation goes. I can tell you that during the mid to late 90'a that fold up sets (with hex keys and screwdriver) branded Park were made by Eklind Tool. I changed the stamps and have a few examples in my toolbox. It's called "house branding" and Eklind did that for Blue Point, Mac, Snap-On and a few other brands. Lots of manufacturers do this, it's quite common. Thought you'd want to know.
I think I had some of those before they finally died. The one thing about Park is that they seem to be on a constant slow decline. Some of their designs are the best around, but the mfg quality has gone to ****. For example the pivot bearing press I have is a great design, but they didn’t harden the shaft so after every use you have to debur it with a file.
 

Marsim

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This is probably a stupid question, but I've only every used metric hex heys, or come across metric fasters, cap screws etc. Where to people find the need for SAE hex bits/keys? Is it mostly on older USA machinery, or heavy duty stuff?
Pretty much every commercial aircraft I've worked on is sae (including Airbus).
 

ecotec

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This is probably a stupid question, but I've only every used metric hex heys, or come across metric fasters, cap screws etc. Where to people find the need for SAE hex bits/keys? Is it mostly on older USA machinery, or heavy duty stuff?
I am an electrician. 99% of what I work on is SAE. The industrial world moves slowly. We don’t need no commie metric… with your base 10… and your super easy to do math…

There are two kinds of countries… those that have been to the moon… and those that use metric.
 

ecotec

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NASA uses the metric system.
Go to NASA… any day of the ******’ week… their ductwork is held together with 1/4” and 5/16” head screws, their electrical gear is all SAE, their plumbing is all SAE…

The nerdy pussies at NASA use metric… but the real men at NASA… the plumbers, the electricians, the millwrights, the tinknockers… they still use SAE like Jesus intended… Quit tryin’ to change us… ******’ kids…

Metric is a fad.
 
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American Locomotive

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This is probably a stupid question, but I've only every used metric hex heys, or come across metric fasters, cap screws etc. Where to people find the need for SAE hex bits/keys? Is it mostly on older USA machinery, or heavy duty stuff?
Basically the only time I have ever used SAE hex keys are on: Older American-made bicycles, set-screws for shafting, and screws for 80/20 aluminum extrusions. But outside of that, I rarely need to use SAE hex keys.

Equipment I have that actually uses cap screws, all seem to be metric.

If you're talking about tools in general: Older American cars, most farm-kinda-stuff, lawn equipment, etc... tends to be SAE still. Most planes as mentioned earlier are also SAE. Pretty much any all-new American car after ~2000 or so is completely metric.
 

neersighted

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I think I had some of those before they finally died. The one thing about Park is that they seem to be on a constant slow decline. Some of their designs are the best around, but the mfg quality has gone to ****. For example the pivot bearing press I have is a great design, but they didn’t harden the shaft so after every use you have to debur it with a file.
Call Park and Truman/Calvin will get you a new one -- they had problems with third-party heat treat and the first six or so months of production were underhardened. I've had the same kit in use for 6 months with no burrs raised on the shaft after replacement.

Regarding current Park hex stock, they're using Bondhus currently -- or at least they were when I asked Eric (the company president) a couple years ago.
 

Dave455

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This is probably a stupid question, but I've only every used metric hex heys, or come across metric fasters, cap screws etc. Where to people find the need for SAE hex bits/keys? Is it mostly on older USA machinery, or heavy duty stuff?
I probably use Imperial and Metric about 50/50.

Inch sizes are mostly found on machine tools. Not just American, but also British, and even some others. Many of the adjustments need hex keys, so you’re using them constantly. Even if the machine is metric, much of the tooling, and certainly most dies, are Imperial sized

Any aerospace component is Imperial, as are many firearms. Any bicycle I find will be the same. Might be different if you’re competing in ”Le Tour”, but there isn’t much of that where I am!

I really only use metric for newer / european vehicles, or some newer machine tools.
 

teagueo

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You owe it to yourself to try Asahi AQS0910 Hex Keys. The fitment on bolt heads is phenomenal. They're one of my most used tools on motorcycles and whatever coating they use, it's barely showing any wear. And the holder is perfect - just enough friction to hold them in place but still easy to remove, and it's showed no signs of loosening.

Better than Bondhus and Eklind in my opinion.

1661191926611.png
 

Grant Gunderson

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Call Park and Truman/Calvin will get you a new one -- they had problems with third-party heat treat and the first six or so months of production were underhardened. I've had the same kit in use for 6 months with no burrs raised on the shaft after replacement.

Regarding current Park hex stock, they're using Bondhus currently -- or at least they were when I asked Eric (the company president) a couple years ago.
I need to see if I can get an industry account there. I tried back when I was doing way more bike industry stuff, but got no where with it. I’m doing a ton of it again, but now no one sees my name on it as it’s all under my work for Alterra/ Ikon and our partner resorts. I’m actually on the way to shoot a new bike park this week outside of Vegas before it opens.
 

Pexto

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I've got a couple
Call Park and Truman/Calvin will get you a new one -- they had problems with third-party heat treat and the first six or so months of production were underhardened. I've had the same kit in use for 6 months with no burrs raised on the shaft after replacement.

Regarding current Park hex stock, they're using Bondhus currently -- or at least they were when I asked Eric (the company president) a couple years ago.

IMO Park has always had issues with QC. Since they source most of their tools from other suppliers, they occasionally get a bad batch. About 40 years ago I bought a 32/15 headset/pedal wrench (HCW-6 IIRC). It had beautiful thick chrome plating but was poorly stamped, so poorly that it literally would not fit on a headset race or locknut at the 32mm end, and at the pedal end would not fit on 15mm flats. I had to take a diamond stone and carefully open it up to where it would fit. I still have that wrench although it does not get much use these days.
 

neersighted

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Any aerospace component is Imperial, as are many firearms. Any bicycle I find will be the same. Might be different if you’re competing in ”Le Tour”, but there isn’t much of that where I am!

I really want to know where you're finding SAE fasteners on bicycles -- nothing made in the last 40-50 years (with the exception of a niche BMX company) has used those dimensions. Even in the halcyon days of Schwinn they primarily used metric fasteners. I wonder if you're working on old British bicycles?

I need to see if I can get an industry account there. I tried back when I was doing way more bike industry stuff, but got no where with it. I’m doing a ton of it again, but now no one sees my name on it as it’s all under my work for Alterra/ Ikon and our partner resorts. I’m actually on the way to shoot a new bike park this week outside of Vegas before it opens.

Park doesn't do direct industry accounts, except for wholesale pricing on spare parts. If you explain your industry bonafides on the phone to their people they'll likely be willing to get you set up -- however, they'll tell you you'll need to go through a distributor for anything but spares due to their distribution agreements. Warranty service never has required an account of any kind -- and their field/training people (Calvin and Truman) pick up the phone every time.

I've got a couple

IMO Park has always had issues with QC. Since they source most of their tools from other suppliers, they occasionally get a bad batch. About 40 years ago I bought a 32/15 headset/pedal wrench (HCW-6 IIRC). It had beautiful thick chrome plating but was poorly stamped, so poorly that it literally would not fit on a headset race or locknut at the 32mm end, and at the pedal end would not fit on 15mm flats. I had to take a diamond stone and carefully open it up to where it would fit. I still have that wrench although it does not get much use these days.

Park has always been rough and ready in my opinion, and they certainly are my second choice for many tools where someone else makes a more refined/higher quality tool. That being said, Park's customer service and warranty have always been top notch, and I don't hesitate to buy from Park when they have the best version of a tool.

In all fairness, they have had some issues with worn tooling again as you can see here.
 
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Dave455

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I really want to know where you're finding SAE fasteners on bicycles -- nothing made in the last 40-50 years (with the exception of a niche BMX company) has used those dimensions. Even in the halcyon days of Schwinn they primarily used metric fasteners. I wonder if you're working on old British bicycles?
Yes, when I work on bicycles (and it isn’t often) it’s generally British made machines. Threads are generally BSC (British Standard Cycle - constant pitch threads with BS sized bolt heads) or BS cap screws / grub screws with inch sized female hex. All British Standard rather than SAE.
 
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Grant Gunderson

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Park has always been rough and ready in my opinion, and they certainly are my second choice for many tools where someone else makes a more refined/higher quality tool. That being said, Park's customer service and warranty have always been top notch, and I don't hesitate to buy from Park when they have the best version of a tool.

In all fairness, they have had some issues with worn tooling again as you can see here.
We are drifting off topic, but since crank pullers came up, why hasn't someone made a ratcheting one yet? That CP7 is great for the travel kit, but I still prefer a dedicated handle when in the shop. It had been years since I used one last, but now with E-bikes its a regular tool again.
 

mepstein

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We are drifting off topic, but since crank pullers came up, why hasn't someone made a ratcheting one yet? That CP7 is great for the travel kit, but I still prefer a dedicated handle when in the shop. It had been years since I used one last, but now with E-bikes its a regular tool again.
The best standard crank puller is Campy. 100X better than park. We used it a lot - back in the day. A 15 mm wrench makes a better handle than the flat one a park came with.
 

Grokew

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Was this off a news feed story or did I post something?
A post from you, and a google search

Found an insurance claim from a long time ago, two proposition 65 lawsuits, and a false patent markings lawsuit. I guess the insurance claim was the one, but it is behind a paywall.
 
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neersighted

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We are drifting off topic, but since crank pullers came up, why hasn't someone made a ratcheting one yet? That CP7 is great for the travel kit, but I still prefer a dedicated handle when in the shop. It had been years since I used one last, but now with E-bikes its a regular tool again.

I despise all the fixed handles I've used (Park, Unior, Cyclus), so my solution was the CWP-7 + a nice 15mm box-end wrench for years. This one is my favorite for the CWP-7 and any bolt-on wheels I encounter. The box-end wrench solution really isn't too bad as the actual 'pulling' part where you are putting torque into the tool is only about 2-2.5 turns.

That being said, I have since found myself also pining for a ratcheting tool. The best solution I have found has been either the Shimano TL-FC11 or it's Taiwanese imitation, the Super-B TB-6618 combined with a Koken 3/8" drive 14mm hex bit socket. These tools have a 14mm socket meant for removing crank bolts on the back side that I use with my bit socket -- they also have a second 8mm broaching inside the 14mm socket meant for a 8mm hex tool.

I like using the 14mm bit socket as I end up with a shorter overall tool with torque closer to the crank puller (as to use the 8mm hex broaching you need a semi-long or long bit socket).

I've used most of the best and worst tools the industry has to offer (almost everything from Park, Pedro's, Unior, Cyclus, Birzman, Feedback, Hozan, Abbey, EVT, Stein, Runwell, Enduro/RWC/Sonny's, Wheels MFG, BSC, DT Swiss, P&K Lie, low-cost Super-B rebrands like IceToolz, BikeHand, and similar, and vintage tools from the like of Var and Campag), and would be interested in starting a bicycle specialty tools thread if people are keen on it.
 
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CallumRD1

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[snip]

I've used most of the best and worst tools the industry has to offer (almost everything from Park, Pedro's, Unior, Cyclus, Birzman, Feedback, Hozan, Abbey, EVT, Stein, Runwell, Enduro/RWC/Sonny's, Wheels MFG, BSC, DT Swiss, P&K Lie, low-cost Super-B rebrands like IceToolz, BikeHand, and similar, and vintage tools from the like of Var and Campag), and would be interested in starting a bicycle specialty tools thread if people are keen on it.
Go for it! I'd contribute for sure.
 
OP
A

aggiegrads

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I've used most of the best and worst tools the industry has to offer (almost everything from Park, Pedro's, Unior, Cyclus, Birzman, Feedback, Hozan, Abbey, EVT, Stein, Runwell, Enduro/RWC/Sonny's, Wheels MFG, BSC, DT Swiss, P&K Lie, low-cost Super-B rebrands like IceToolz, BikeHand, and similar, and vintage tools from the like of Var and Campag), and would be interested in starting a bicycle specialty tools thread if people are keen on it.
I would be interested in that. My background is in manufacturing and I occasionally work with Brett at EVT to help him with process control. He doesn’t usually make something unless his can be the best, and a crank puller would be right up his alley, especially with the resurgence of the square taper on ebikes.

Most of my bike specific tools are a mix of Hozan, Abbey, and EVT, with some Park tools for those that aren’t available or prohibitively expensive to get in the US. I would have more VAR and Unior tools if there was good US distribution.
 

Grant Gunderson

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8A937AFD-CE16-406C-A0D7-A0260CF96392.jpegI despise all the fixed handles I've used (Park, Unior, Cyclus), so my solution was the CWP-7 + a nice 15mm box-end wrench for years. This one is my favorite for the CWP-7 and any bolt-on wheels I encounter. The box-end wrench solution really isn't too bad as the actual 'pulling' part where you are putting torque into the tool is only about 2-2.5 turns.

That being said, I have since found myself also pining for a ratcheting tool. The best solution I have found has been either the Shimano TL-FC11 or it's Taiwanese imitation, the Super-B TB-6618 combined with a Koken 3/8" drive 14mm hex bit socket. These tools have a 14mm socket meant for removing crank bolts on the back side that I use with my bit socket -- they also have a second 8mm broaching inside the 14mm socket meant for a 8mm drive tool.

I like using the 14mm bit socket as I end up with a shorter overall tool with torque closer to the crank puller (as to use the 8mm hex broaching you need a semi-long or long bit socket).

I've used most of the best and worst tools the industry has to offer (almost everything from Park, Pedro's, Unior, Cyclus, Birzman, Feedback, Hozan, Abbey, EVT, Stein, Runwell, Enduro/RWC/Sonny's, Wheels MFG, BSC, DT Swiss, P&K Lie, low-cost Super-B rebrands like IceToolz, BikeHand, and similar, and vintage tools from the like of Var and Campag), and would be interested in starting a bicycle specialty tools thread if people are keen on it.
I started posting the bike tool collection here: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/the-action-sports-garage.501821/#post-9701722

I also have that RunWell 15mm
 

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slowtwitch73

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One of my favorite tools that I use regulalrly on all manner of things is a pair of Eldi lock ring pliers... similar Channel locks.
 

neersighted

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I would be interested in that. My background is in manufacturing and I occasionally work with Brett at EVT to help him with process control. He doesn’t usually make something unless his can be the best, and a crank puller would be right up his alley, especially with the resurgence of the square taper on ebikes.

Most of my bike specific tools are a mix of Hozan, Abbey, and EVT, with some Park tools for those that aren’t available or prohibitively expensive to get in the US. I would have more VAR and Unior tools if there was good US distribution.

I'd be interested in Brett's take own take on the venerable crank puller -- ideally borrowing from the Shimano tool, as it's the best overall design in my opinion, with the ability to extract both square taper and ISIS BBs without reconfiguration. The ability to drive the tool with a 15mm open-end wrench and a hex key/bit is definitely worth preserving as well.

In a hypothetical EVT tool, I think the ability to use both 15mm box wrench and a 10mm hex key would be the best combination of drive tools. A removable tip cap for Cannondale Hollowgram cranks would be an awesome addition, with bonus points for a way to store it on the tool without blocking the 10mm hex drive broaching.

I started posting the bike tool collection here: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/the-action-sports-garage.501821/#post-9701722

I also have that RunWell 15mm

You've got the Aqualia 15 actually -- I have it in my portable kit, but I like the one I linked (the Vatto 15) has extra length making it extra lovely for shop use.



So we can keep this thread on track, I've made The Bicycle (Specialty) Tools Thread to discuss all our other favorite tools for working on bicycles.
 
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tdkkart

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Part II - Ball-Ends

OK, so I spent some more time looking at ball ends. I did see some interesting things when I looked close up. One thing that it important to know if that the contact area in a ball end is much less than it is with a straight square key. Another is that the key is inherently weaker due to the necked end. I work in a capital equipment manufacturing factory, and I have seen many broken ball-ends in fasteners. Most ball ends have been removed from the manufacturing floor and the ones that remain are controlled by the supervisors and are only to be used in specific circumstances where the design does not allow a standard tool to work.

I will start with the Bondhus T-Handle that I have had for a long time and used quite a bit. Even though the tool shows a lot of wear, the edges are sharp across the entire profile of the ball and neck. You can also see from this photo exactly where the wear occurs. It is obvious that the contact area is extremely small, the silver "band" is less than a millimeter wide. Most of the wear is near the edges.
4b0ccac_z_9f67e4bdf097daab0aacce0f608f174120905686.jpg

Next is the Elkind. I don't like this design at all. The "backside" of the ball is straight, which defeats the purpose of the ball. The neck has interesting surface that leads me to believe that the neck may have been forged to net shape before the profile was put on the ball end. Again, I would not recommend the Elkind for either end of the tool.
d418f0f_z_c37615efb92819eab2a5810ea05c819848270831.jpg

Here is the Bondhus GoldGuard. The machining is nice, and the surface is very consistent.
869de55_z_0dd7674129f6f77bfcd15960db15a866729116df.jpg

Here is the Wiha. Again, the machining and surface finish are very nice. The ball is "longer" than the Bondhus balls, which lead me to believe that you may get more surface area when the wrench is at an angle.
3f6f4c8_z_bdd3614046f20a8f985b371f273cfe23d35fac0f.jpg

Next up is the Wera. The machining blows me away. It is obvious that the machine tools used are kept sharp - the other brands you can see inconsistencies in the tool marks that indicate nicks or burrs in the cutting tools. There is no evidence of that here whatsoever. The other thing to notice is that the ball shape is consistent on both sides of the ball. None of the other brands seem to have this same consistency in the shape, and my guess is that this geometry leads to more contact area.
ccfc8f9_z_06d95fcc7033b69b8fae057981aa557509604ee1.jpg

Finally, we have the Silca. In this case, I believe that the chrome coating and high polish do the tool a disservice. All of the edges appear to be rounded. This ball appears to be the "stubbiest" of all of the brands.
0bbd813_z_e3f4919a7c91ec3cf36743d79a303bfb45135315.jpg
You're one of those guys that oils and polishes his ratchets aren't you?
 

MongoTA

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I'm not much a tool connoisseur, but I do enjoy how others appreciate tool quality. The close-up photos you posted were helpful.

I have four boxes of hex, all from an auction. Two of the boxes are shown below, the other two are in another cabinet. More than I'll ever need, more than I'll ever use. There are a wide variety of maker's marks, a very quick look and the better quality ones seem to be Bondhus. There night be some 'better' in there but the Bondus are the ones I notice when using them. Nice ball ends, with the straight ends chamfered.

Once in a while I'll pull out one with a wonky end. I'll clean it up and dress it on the Wilton.

I'll sort them some day. I think?

Kennedy Hex Large.jpg
 

MarvinBerry

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This is probably a stupid question, but I've only every used metric hex heys, or come across metric fasters, cap screws etc. Where to people find the need for SAE hex bits/keys? Is it mostly on older USA machinery, or heavy duty stuff?


Lots of SAE still used for musical instruments... most really small too.

I bought a new Fender strat last week, bridge adjustments needed the .50 key? The one smaller then 1/16.... think the neck truss rod is 3/16 but I haven't touched that yet.

Fwiw I used an Eklind set for those initial adjustments worked fine. I've never had a fitment issue with them? And yes i have snapped ball ends, usually when least expected!
 

jmf535

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I've been amassing several different brands/types of hex's lately, so I figure I'll share my thoughts/opinions on the matter.

Here is a group shot of some of my go-to items;
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First up, let's talk about PB Swiss...personally, I don't think that they live up to the hype. There, I said it.

Yes, they are extremely well made, and I'm sure they will last forever, but I'm a little disappointed in the fitment of them. There is more slop to them than I was expecting given all the praise thrown their way (and the price). I am a big fan of the the T-handle shape, and the shortness of it, so I do use them quite a bit, but I do think that there are better ones out there.

And that brings me to Hazet. These are what I consider to be the best ones out there. Fitment and finish is incredible, they offer a wide selection of styles, and a simply a joy to use. Durability is still a relative unknown for me, but I suspect it won't be an issue. I currently have the t-handles, 1/4 sockets, and bits.

Now, I'm pretty sure that they don't actually make them in house (Inbus does, I believe?) so that is a bit of a downer.

Next up, are a couple of lesser talked about brands, Koken and Felo. I don't have a bunch on either brand, but what I do have is impressive stuff.

Felo's fitment is right up there with Hazet (same oem, maybe?), but the finishing is a notch below. I've only seen hex stuff available in bits, and I haven't seen the bits available anywhere outside of kits (my came in the R-GO XL 36) so I'm guessing hex isn't a big focus for them. Which is a shame, because I like the brand, and I really like the bits. Does anyone have any info on who is actually making them?

Koken is another one that doesn't offer a large variety (sockets only, I believe) but what they have is great...excellent quality at an even better valve. Just like everything else that they make. I currently only have some 3/8 z-series bit sockets, but the word on the street is that the regular series ones use the same hex stock, and have a wider variety of lengths, so those are on the wish list.

Now, Nepros. Like everything that they do, the finishing quality is next, next level good. Fitment wise, however, is like that of PB Swiss...it's good, but not as good as you were expecting good. The TiN coating is holding up extremely well (which is nice), but overally, I don't think that they are worth the price. Unless if you are just after that bling factor.

And finally, Wera. I'm not sure what to say about Wera. They are certainly well loved (and well hyped), especially in the bike industry, and they quality/durability is there, as well, but it's that damn Hex-Plus that leaves me torn...it's simultaneously a thing of beauty, and an infuriating nuisance.

A thing of beauty because it really does grip like no other. The amount of torque that you can put down through them is incredible. And then an infuriating nuisance because they grip like no other. So much so, that they end up mangling anything that they touch more than once, and getting embedded in the fastener while doing so. I invested pretty hard in them years ago, so I stuck with them because of it, but I never actually enjoyed using them. I finally broke down this year and moved on from them. They are still there if for when I come across a really stuck/damaged fastener, but they days of them being my go-tos are well, and truly, over.


Then, my final thought...Ball ends and the work of the devil
 

neersighted

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
46
And finally, Wera. I'm not sure what to say about Wera. They are certainly well loved (and well hyped), especially in the bike industry, and they quality/durability is there, as well, but it's that damn Hex-Plus that leaves me torn...it's simultaneously a thing of beauty, and an infuriating nuisance.

A thing of beauty because it really does grip like no other. The amount of torque that you can put down through them is incredible. And then an infuriating nuisance because they grip like no other. So much so, that they end up mangling anything that they touch more than once, and getting embedded in the fastener while doing so. I invested pretty hard in them years ago, so I stuck with them because of it, but I never actually enjoyed using them. I finally broke down this year and moved on from them. They are still there if for when I come across a really stuck/damaged fastener, but they days of them being my go-tos are well, and truly, over.
Definitely odd to hear you've had Wera hex tools tearing up fasteners, as I find I get the opposite results -- for any serious torque I get less fastener damage with RBRT or Hex-Plus compared to traditional hex tools. These days I use a mix of Wera Hex-Plus (keys, bits, bit sockets), Mac RBRT (bits, bit sockets, ball-end P-handles), Bondhus (keys, socket inserts), PB Swiss (sliding T-handles) and Proto (bit sockets).
 

jmf535

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
170
Definitely odd to hear you've had Wera hex tools tearing up fasteners, as I find I get the opposite results -- for any serious torque I get less fastener damage with RBRT or Hex-Plus compared to traditional hex tools. These days I use a mix of Wera Hex-Plus (keys, bits, bit sockets), Mac RBRT (bits, bit sockets, ball-end P-handles), Bondhus (keys, socket inserts), PB Swiss (sliding T-handles) and Proto (bit sockets).
Under high-torque situations, yes, Wear does a better job of limiting damage to the fastener. It's the "normal" lower-torque fasteners that I find that they destroy if you are adjusting them with any kind of regularity. Such as seat post clamps, stems, cleat bolts, and even thru-axles, to a less degree.

Then I've always had a tough time using them on shifter clamps, and bleed port screws (especially), as they dig in too much.
 

Bubba Fett

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Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
1,516
Location
Eastern NC
Klein has some pretty good hex keys in various formats. I also bought some generic ones at Tractor Supply for $6 - metric and fractional.

I have a small box full of crummy hex keys that come with mounting kits, etc. Some are security-tipped (holes) but the rest are regular L-type keys. A few are T-handles. I usually keep one of each in the tool box, but the rest get tossed in the carboard box.

I've thought about modding them in some way, or making them into other tools, like little pry bars or something. Maybe I should just recycle them.
 

RoninB4

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Jul 22, 2020
Messages
3,602
Location
Under My House
I've thought about modding them in some way, or making them into other tools, like little pry bars or something. Maybe I should just recycle them.
If the steel is good I've always made the rounded over ones into something else. Miniature T-handles, knurled knobs pressed onto straight section (finger tip control adjustment), offset screwdrivers, small fingers/stays in jig and fixture work, anything where decent steel that needed heat treated steel. Let your imagination lead you. If the steel is **** I'd toss them.
 

RTM

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
13,228
Location
SF Bay Area
i-p6KVWFc-X2.jpgSome guys take them and bend and grind them into blades for a hand router plane. Very specialized tool.


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BigLeagueSmoes

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2022
Messages
314
Location
Central IL
You owe it to yourself to try Asahi AQS0910 Hex Keys. The fitment on bolt heads is phenomenal. They're one of my most used tools on motorcycles and whatever coating they use, it's barely showing any wear. And the holder is perfect - just enough friction to hold them in place but still easy to remove, and it's showed no signs of loosening.

Better than Bondhus and Eklind in my opinion.

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Is eBay the best place to look for these?
 
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