rattle_snake's random shop projects v0.1

[Boosted1]

Looking good Justin. I like the sleeves and boxed frame.

 

[rattle_snake]

Is there a plan for a similarly tapered plate at the rear? The boxed to not boxed transition needs to be gentle or you risk cracks where the torsional stiffness changes dramatically.

Yes, doing the boxing in stages and will terminate with a tapered end. Where exactly not sure. Currently back to the body mounts. Might go one more section then cab would need to come off.

Looking good Justin. I like the sleeves and boxed frame.

Thanks. Enjoying this phase of the build.

 

[rattle_snake]

With the IFS up an inch and forward 2, the LCA rear mount almost fits. The factory mount has an oversized oval hole.


With LCA forward bushing centered and torqued the clearance is not much. A piece of 9/16 DOM could be used instead and not need frame modifications. But adjustability is limited without a bushing.


In between solution is a 'standard' 2-5/8 x 9/16 poly bushing. 2" OD DOM 0.25 wall. It contacts the frame slightly.


To fit properly I notched the frame in a similar fashion as the others. Cut out a 0.5 x 3.5 triangle and bend the lower flange up, radius intact.


Now the bushing has some clearance.


With LCA mod done, continued the frame boxing back to the cab mounts. Needs at least one more section to tie into the cross member.


Cut some brackets for the shock tower bracing. Instead of 1/4 or 3/8 material, using all 3/16 with overlays as needed. Minimal weight added.


Used 2 layers of 3/16 for the ear, then split to support in 2 planes.


Added outer braces and weld washers for the subframe bolts.

 

[Boosted1]

Coming along nicely. That's going to be stout.

 

[zmotorsports]

Looking good Justin.

 

[rattle_snake]

Coming along nicely. That's going to be stout.

Thanks. That's the idea, solid and rigid. Kinda the opposite of most CV IFS installs. Not that quick and easy is bad, just not my style.

Looking good Justin.

Thanks Mike!
Has been a lot of grinding and welding and grinding. Really like the 2nd paddle style cordless angle grinder I recently bought. One with a death wheel and the other with flap wheel. Usually use 60 grit, bought some 40s they plow through weld but wear quick. But for the money it's well worth the time saved. The older trigger style grinder has a wire brush, and now that it is cordless I actually use it. I have four larger capacity batteries and they are more than enough for how I use the tools.

The modifications to my mechanic stool really make it work a lot better. Wider base and bigger wheels make all the difference. Working low to the ground is hard on my back and the improved stool makes a difference. Needs a larger seat, I have been wanting to make a new seat pan/pad and cover with some nicer material, in Viper tan.

 

[rattle_snake]

Fired up the plasma and cut the parts for the second side. Hopefully the last batch on the table for this machine.


Hoping the cleanup effort on thick material with a larger capacity machine is significantly reduced.


Welded up the frame boxing plates and slicked out the frame rails. Tacked the upper supports in place.


One step closer to getting it back on it's wheels. Frame boxing needs to go one more panel back, with tapered ends. Rear LCA mounts, steering, brakes.


With the frame welding done I removed the brace between the towers. No preload so nothing moved. Measured the frame horns to see what the heat did. Narrow by over an inch, well that *****. Looked more closely at the frame rails and decided that they are both bent to the right. I corrected the right rail somewhat. Took some cross measurements and the left side needs to move out and right is all right. Plan to cut the flanges and box plate where the seams are and reposition as needed. This way the core support and bumper will fit properly.

 

[bugnut]

Nice work and those welds.....

 

[stinkity stoink]

you are making it look easy and we know it is definitely not.

 

[CGohring]

Am I the only one who is blown away by how clean Justin's workspace is?

 

[rattle_snake]

Nice work and those welds.....

Thanks.
'those welds', is that a good thing or ?

I'm always critical of my welds. I've improved a lot over the years and confident in the results, but not consistent enough to look good.. A lot of welds get covered or slicked out.

you are making it look easy and we know it is definitely not.

Thank you. I've had some time to think about it. It's not the first one so I already know how to screw it up. The frame being bent doesn't help. Welding itself warps things. Have to just take it one step at a time, adapt as needed.

Am I the only one who is blown away by how clean Justin's workspace is?

I can't work in chaos. The bed of the truck is chaos, filled with all the parts and pieces. But that is not the workspace.
I blow the grinding dust back under the truck. I swept up pounds of it last night.

 

[rattle_snake]

Got the new machine setup and cutting on the table.
Difference in cut quality and clean-up is very significant on thicker material, as expected.


The ground clamp is ****, so I cut it off and tossed it in the trash. Shortened the lead somewhat, crimped a lug on it to work with a mag setup. Didn't work for **** so I took it apart and ended up adding a washer to make spring force higher and hold the electrode vertical to contact better.
Cut 15' off the CNC cord.
The Langmuir THC is intended to use an external 'signal conditioner' as a filter/protection and/or a 50:1 divider. The THC input on the controller is only for raw voltage, probably could skip the box, but just used it for now. Plasma has both raw and 50:1 outputs, plus series Rs that could be used as protection.


The unit has an external reg/filter setup. My experience with these type of filters is that they pass water vapor. I swapped over the Motorgaurd filter I had on the other machine.

 

[Ohmthis]

Looking good on the IFS on the truck. Are you planning to make motor mounts off of the CV mounts or fab your own?

 

[bugnut]

Thanks.
'those welds', is that a good thing or ?

Beautiful! and the clean shop. OMG

 

[M.Brane]

I like the drums in the garage.

 

[rattle_snake]

Looking good on the IFS on the truck. Are you planning to make motor mounts off of the CV mounts or fab your own?

Thanks. Going to fab something, need to get the engine back in and see how things line up and make a plan. In general, I believe the motor mount pillars on the CV k member are too far forward. I see that some of the mounts sold attach to the rear of the pillars. I moved the IFS forward 2" so I assume it will just make the situation worse. It is possible to not use the pillars at all, or use them in conjunction with the frame to further tie things together.

Beautiful! and the clean shop. OMG

well thanks then. Some of the work is laying on the ground so I like to keep the space clean.

My daughter's ex boyfriend did welding school. They had to wear ear plugs at all times. I asked why. So a molten ball doesn't enter your ear and burn a hole through it.

So last night while I was welding on the bottom of the frame I put a towel over the side of my head. I still got a piece into my ear but it was small and not so hot by then.

I like the drums in the garage.

Me too. Fun to play the drums. They get dirty, but they get used.
I have a friend who is a drummer in a death metal band for a long time. He puts on small events at his home shop, the 'Metal Box' (it's a metal shop). Dude has Slayer level speed and precision. It's pretty amazing to watch. All the bands I have seen there are pretty decent. Only a few miles from my home. Complete with mosh pit.

Went and saw the band 'The Sword' last week. Was a great show. I'd call it stoner metal. Riffs, riffs and great interleaved guitar work.

 

[rattle_snake]

Tackled the bent frame horn issue. Step one was cut three sides of the frame at the box seam and bend it out. That left a decent gap, right about 3/16. Then how to weld it back up without contracting back to the wrong place.
To make the repair more robust, I used a thin strip of 3/16 to shim the gap. This holds position and provides a backing to the weld puddle. I set it in as far as possible to still have it hold the gap open. Weld all three together, up, hot.


Then on to the LCA rear mounts. Simple task, but not simple to do well. Have to build in place with the compound angles. Started with the outer plate, clamp in position, drill one hole. Pin, drill the other. Tack the plate to sleeve. Center punch the inner flange, drill more holes. Bend the inner plate in the press to fit, tack. Then finish weld on the bench with clamps the spacers to hold the shape.




Welder all the way up. Need a bigger welder....


Will see if headers interfere with the bracket and nuts....


Not the final HW.


With the bolts close to the lower flange, sleeves aren't really needed. I put them in anyway. Might have been able to get them into the frame gap from the box end, weld the closer one, but the forward would be difficult to secure. Instead drill one side (outside) and top weld the sleeve. 0.5 x 0.75 DOM.


Sleeveage and notchage.

 

[rattle_snake]

The mini me plasma machine fit in the bottom of my tool cart. Color is off, not quite speed metal blue. With it being portable and ready to use, should become more useful. Stuck bolt? not if it's liquid.


The big lip on the bottom shelf hold all the wires and cables in decently.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

Went and saw the band 'The Sword' last week. Was a great show. I'd call it stoner metal. Riffs, riffs and great interleaved guitar work.

I didn't realize these guys were still a thing. They were just getting started when I got out of college.

 

[zmotorsports]

Nicely done Justin.

I have also used the "plate filler" trick to fill gaps larger than I felt comfortable with just wire before with excellent results. Works as intended to fill the gap and control pull back.

 

[Ohmthis]

“Thanks. Going to fab something, need to get the engine back in and see how things line up and make a plan. In general, I believe the motor mount pillars on the CV k member are too far forward. I see that some of the mounts sold attach to the rear of the pillars. I moved the IFS forward 2" so I assume it will just make the situation worse. It is possible to not use the pillars at all, or use them in conjunction with the frame to further tie things together.”

On my F100 CV swap, I did use the pillars and offset my mounts to move the engine back. I am going to go back and do some more bracing on the backside. My biggest reason for using the pillars, it’s gives complete freedom on the inside of the frame rails. I have used the inside of the rails to run fuel lines and the main power cables (moved the battery out of the engine bay). You’re a very smart man, you’ll figure out what will work best overall for your project.

 

[rattle_snake]

I didn't realize these guys were still a thing. They were just getting started when I got out of college.

Looks like they started in '03. Somehow that is now 23 years ago.

Nicely done Justin.

I have also used the "plate filler" trick to fill gaps larger than I felt comfortable with just wire before with excellent results. Works as intended to fill the gap and control pull back.

I though of doing it that way similar to doing a **** splice on tubing where you use a cross sectional shape piece, but just one side of the rectangle.

With steel prices what they are, and being 'cheap', I try to keep all the little odd shaped bits from the plasma table. In this case I kept a strip just the right size for the job.
However, when cleaning up the dross on 'scrap' I finally managed to stick my hand into the belt sander, with a fresh 36 grit. Thumb is missing part of the nail, and some skin. Shoulda just tossed the piece...

On my F100 CV swap, I did use the pillars and offset my mounts to move the engine back. I am going to go back and do some more bracing on the backside. My biggest reason for using the pillars, it’s gives complete freedom on the inside of the frame rails. I have used the inside of the rails to run fuel lines and the main power cables (moved the battery out of the engine bay). You’re a very smart man, you’ll figure out what will work best overall for your project.

With frame boxing I kinda prevented myself from running stuff in there. The sleeves block the channel pretty good. Not sure an -6AN nut will fit. #2 wire should though. Might cut some access holes if it makes sense.
Using the pillars instead of frame mounted mounts leaves a lot more room for headers, including getting them in and out.

 

[SMOKEYBEAR]

I don't see anything I don't like. Project looks good

 

[rattle_snake]

Thanks Smokey. New plasma machine makes things look better.

 

[rattle_snake]

Made some progress on the chassis. Got the upper bracketry welded up while the k-member was still in place.


Then removed it to access the welds on the outside, and finish up a few places on the bottom of the rails.




Doesn't make sense but I painted what is kinda finished for some gratification.




Added one more piece of box plate to the frame, as far as I can go with cab in place. Taper on the end.


Might extend later.


Left side had some things in the way but made it fit OK.

 

[rattle_snake]

Received bushed sleeves from Barns.




Made some custom sized washers


Got the motor put into rough position to start on mounts.




I expected things to end up like this. The hack to connect the sumps works, and solves this issue, but not going to leave it this way. Motor is only up 1/8 from where it was.


Right side exhaust is really tight, as before. Need to address this and make it fit better.


Left side has plenty of room with steering box gone. Cut down the steering shaft and test fit the joints. Test fit headers to see how the motor mounts are going to have to be made.

 

[rattle_snake]

Designed some motor mounts in CAD. New plasma can cut slots and holes much better, so did a slot/tab design.


Offset the bushing away from the block some.


Made the slots a little wider than the nominal 2-5/8 so they fit after welding. Used a 0.050 washer as a spacer with the sleeve.


Left side mock-up. The motor mounts are offset front to back from one another. I made the right side to compensate.

 

[zmotorsports]

Very nicely done Justin.

 

[stinkity stoink]

Great work you are doing here.
I am not familiar with frame boxing and building so much. What is the reason for the boxing plates not being straight up and down. Is it structural or aesthetic…I think it looks much better the way you have it.

 

[rattle_snake]

Very nicely done Justin.

Thanks Mike. I enjoy this part of the build. Taking the time to do it right not rush things.

Great work you are doing here.
I am not familiar with frame boxing and building so much. What is the reason for the boxing plates not being straight up and down. Is it structural or aesthetic…I think it looks much better the way you have it.

Thank you. Do you mean the ends of the plating? The ends are tapered to reduce the stress points imposed by the boxing plates. The boxing increases tortional rigidity, tapering spreads the load.

 

[rattle_snake]

Decided to tackle the poor fitting header before the oil pan or motor mounts. These are cheap 302 headers for a 'Ford truck', not a 2WD. 351 puts them out and up. So neither side fit at all.
The problem, too close to the frame. Also tight on the lower control arm mount and hardware I just added.


The solution, cut them up. Made pie cuts on the bottom of all the primaries to get the whole bundle closer to the block.


Now has acceptable clearance to the frame, lower control arm mounts and hardware.


But the collector hits the starter mount on the block, as expected.


The only practical way to bend/move all the tubes is to cut them apart to allow them to be different lengths relative to one another. Cut the collector off and started to bend one primary at a time, against the others. Used a combination of pipes for leverage. Tight fitting pipe inside the one being bent to hold the shape.


Going in a better direction.


All four primaries bent best as possible.


Cut pipes flush and welded them together. Cut the middle of the collector out so it doesn't rattle, the rest is welded solid. Test fit it and fine tuned the collector exit angle to be in the middle of the available space.


Sent the header out for ceramic coating.


Decent clearance to starter now. Overall came out pretty good.

 

[Jgaz]

Impressive work!

 

[stinkity stoink]

sweet !!

 

[rattle_snake]

Thanks!
It came out pretty decent for only a few hours work.

 

[ntsqd]

He's the only one that I've ever heard call them that, but an acquaintance calls those joints "Hega Joints." No idea if he's correct.

I built engine mounts like that, but using rubber spring-eye bushings, for a still-borne project. For the trans mount I made it the same way, but rotated the bolt and sleeve 90° to keep some of the fore/aft control out of the front mounts. I also made it exactly the same height as the stock mount so that I could substitute one if I needed to. Actually used an oil soaked and partially de-vulcanized trans mount as my starting point.

May not matter to this use, but I have read of many complaints about the NVH transmission that this type of mount delivers. Was partly why I used rubber on that project. Wish that plug hadn't been pulled on that project as I'd like to know if going with the rubber instead of urethane made a difference.

 

[rattle_snake]

That was ruff stuff's name for them. RS is gone, now it's 'Riley Mountain'.
NVH is the theme of the truck.
The poly bushings aren't really the best option for a motor mount. They are reasonably priced ($30), and have little movement for high horsepower applications. But they are not easy to remove/install. Easier to remove the bolts on the block than to separate the bushing.

or you can spend $300-400 on custom mounts.

 

[rattle_snake]

Pulled the motor back out last night to deal with the oil pan. Waffled on separating trans and putting engine on the stand. Ended up doing nothing but look at it.
I can get a rear sump pan that would be a better fit for the project. But would need a new pickup tube and dipstick. So $200, or modify what I have for $0. I believe that the existing pan is already tight on the pump which is the interference point. Going to check that and see.

Attempted to install the 5/8 bolts for k-member, there is a gap between the some of the mount pads when the upper mounts are secured. So have to go back and resolve that. This is the part of the build where nothing fits and everything needs modification. Don't want to be in a hurry or have a deadline during this phase, or it's not any fun.

 

[ntsqd]

I didn't know that RS also called them that, he called them that way back even before RS existed.
It's odd that it was easy to get the rubber FJ60 leaf spring eye bushings (Call Cruiser Outfitters), but try to get them for a domestic application and its suddenly a lot, lot more difficult.

Building an oil pan isn't difficult. Neither is the pick-up assembly. I've used this sump kit on several oil pans:
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Small-Block-Chevy-Claimer-Oil-Pan-Kit,3512.html Its made to fit a chevy pan, but it isn't terribly difficult to make it fit others. Helps, but not necessary to have a bare block for mock-up and as a welding fixture. The pick-up tube is built exactly the same way that an exhaust made from mandrel bends and straights is made, just smaller. I usually set the pick-up itself off the bottom of the pan about 3/8". Much closer and thick oil with a good pump will threaten to pull the bottom of the sump up and throttle the intake of oil. Much further away and why didn't you build the sump a little less deep? Baffles are easy, gates are a bit trickier. Can do a lot of oil control with just baffles. On sumps for low vehicles I like to run two ~1" wide strips of Core-10 (because that's the AR steel 10 ga. alloy that I have) front to back across the bottom of it.

 

[zmotorsports]

That was ruff stuff's name for them. RS is gone, now it's 'Riley Mountain'.
NVH is the theme of the truck.
The poly bushings aren't really the best option for a motor mount. They are reasonably priced ($30), and have little movement for high horsepower applications. But they are not easy to remove/install. Easier to remove the bolts on the block than to separate the bushing.

or you can spend $300-400 on custom mounts.

For your application I think the poly bushings will work as designed Justin. However, I learned the hard way about poly bushings back in my youth. I had installed polyurethane body mounts as well as motor and trans. mounts on my 1984 Chevy shortbed when I built my 402 big block w/TH400 transmission. The NVH was horrific and I went back to OEM style within short order.

Fortunately, I learned from those lessons and when I built my Jeep I kept enough rubber bushings in the suspension to avoid such issues and even kept the hydraulic motor mounts to keep the vehicle as smooth and vibration free as possible. Don't get me wrong, the poly bushings have their place, but I learned an expensive lesson early on in my journey.

I did use them on several street rods when I was building them because close tolerances were plenty and controlling unwanted movement was the name of the game. They worked in those applications but did come with some additional NVH. Nothing terrible, but it was noticeable enough, but tolerable for a special purpose vehicle.

 

[rattle_snake]

Got the poorly modified oil pan off the motor. Wanted to keep the high zinc oil, but it was diesel black. Only about 1500 miles on it and since it leaked and burned I had put a few quarts in.... Doesn't stink like fuel, but it's really dirty. Went in the recycle jug and I didn't have to find something to store it in. The oil pan was very clean and had no sludge in it.

I stared it down for awhile. Made scribbles with a sharpie like a surgeon. Plan of attack slowly went to where the truck pan already is, so I stopped and said **** this, get out your wallet old man. Cheap ****. Ordered a new late model rear sump pan (without the leaky cast dipstick provisions) and pickup tube. Pick up from local O'Reilly's today. First step is cut a hole for a new dipstick. I bought a $20 flexible 'LS' dipstick. Plan to make a tube to fit the o-ring on the lathe and weld it in. Somehow make it at the right level. Put 6 qts of water in it or something like that.