Tools from the old world

mr.lemons · Apr 25, 2019

News from Gedore.

GEDORE Telescopic reversible ratchet 1/2"

Torque of up to 600 Nm. Adjustable from 400 to 600 mm in eight steps.

https://de.gedore.com/en/company/press-area/press-releases/gedore-telescopic-reversible-ratchet-12/

Also Würth make a stealthy version of the Facom bit ratchet.

Jack84 · Apr 25, 2019

That bit Ratchet is **** looking.

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Jack84 · Apr 25, 2019

Stahlwille 41/36 wrench I got today.

JBH · Apr 25, 2019

mr.lemons said:
Also Würth make a stealthy version of the Facom bit ratchet.

Like many Würth tools and sets, it doesn't look like Würth USA carries that one. Unfortunately, as Würth UK lists it for just 35 UKP. So it nicely undercuts USAG/Facom in price and the case is arguably an upgrade.

Reed Prince · Apr 25, 2019

I needed T10, T25 and T40 tamper resistant torx drivers. The only Wiha set that included T40 I could find in the US was $101.97 from KCTool and Amazon, so I looked on Amazon.de and found one (362TRK6) that cost $32.32 including shipping. Arrived in a week, even though I chose the least expensive delivery.

Pretty sure white material in tip of T40 is just paper dust from packaging.

Reed Prince · Apr 26, 2019

I bought one of these from Amazon after reading about them on toolguyd.com. $30 seemed a reasonable price for German cutters with tungsten carbide inserts. Just came across them again on Amazon and the price for many of them has jumped to $140 - $160, which seems preposterously high.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tu0A-NMjKQ0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mr.lemons · Apr 27, 2019

^ Not seen Aven before. Looks to be a US company. Do you know if they manufacture or rebrand tools? Cannot find much info on their website. Their standard pliers and cutters are reasonably priced if they are are US or German made.

mrspeed · Apr 27, 2019

mr.lemons said:
^ Not seen Aven before. Looks to be a US company. Do you know if they manufacture or rebrand tools? Cannot find much info on their website. Their standard pliers and cutters are reasonably priced if they are are US or German made.

They're based in the US out of Ann Arbor, MI. Most of their pliers are made in their own factory in Pakistan, but the above Accu Cut line with the box joint and yellow ESD handles look like rebranded Schmitz pliers.

I've posted a few of the Aven pliers from Pakistan over on the new tools thread. I also talked to their support on email once, which is when they told me that they had their own factories in Pakistan.

They have a bunch on Amazon, but they've also had several of their pliers on clearance directly on their website for a few months now.

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Reed Prince · Apr 27, 2019

ecotec said:
That is a killer deal. I could never justify a set at retail price. I have enough odds and ends mini pliers, from estate/garage sales, that I have no need. At $30, I would have been all over that.

One model is still reasonably priced.

edit: The ones I bought do look nearly identical to these Schmitz pliers.

mrspeed · Apr 27, 2019

Reed Prince said:
edit: The ones I bought do look nearly identical to these Schmitz pliers.

They look even more identical with the other handle design shown here.

There are several other brands that relabel the Schmitz pliers. A few of them use the exact same handle design in the same color as the Aven ones.

Here are the Elora versions.

Here are the NWS versions.

And here are the Gedore versions, though my Gedore ESD pliers have the same handle style as the ones above, just blue, like the Schmitz versions in the first link above.

What's really interesting is that you can see on their website the different options Schmitz provides for relabeling their pliers, allowing brands to mix and match different handles, finishes, joints, and models.

Out of all the different relabeled brands I have, Elora is my favorite configuration of Schmitz pliers. They offer a pretty full range of all the models Schmitz has, and I really like the polished black chrome finish the Elora versions have. I haven't seen that finish available anywhere else yet, even directly from Schmitz.

Reed Prince · Apr 27, 2019

Very interesting. As an aside, I will mention that I've bought a dozen high end European and Japanese pliers in the past few years, and none of them have spring tension and handle comfort that equal my oldest ones, a pair of Erem 2422E flush cutters.

101% Loko · Apr 27, 2019

Wera 762 VW Socket Set (Year ????)

Vidar Wulff · Apr 28, 2019

That Wera set is awesome. Since the k70 was intrododuced in 1970, and the 412 replaced the 411 in august 1972,should date the set 1970-72. Since the 412 is not mentioned in the list yet.

mrspeed · Apr 28, 2019

Decided to try out the Heyco Talenta and Varicat 1/2" drive ratchets. There's not a lot of info online about these that I could find. Even Heyco's website and product catalogue only have product dimensions and don't talk much about the features or why these models exist in the first place. Funny enough, there's more information on the box the Talenta came in than anywhere on their website or catalogue, so I thought I'd post that here too in case it's useful to anyone.

These are 48-tooth ratchets with plastic thumbwheels on the back to more quickly turn loosened fasteners with your fingers without needing to remove the ratchet from the fastener.

The Talenta is basically another 1/2" drive version of the Varicat, but in a smaller 3/8" drive ratchet body. This is useful in tight spaces or when you just want a smaller ratchet to work with.

Both ratchets feel pretty strong and substantial. One qualm is that the plastic thumbwheels feel a little cheap, and the whole drive mechanism connected to the thumbwheel feels a little loose. The ratcheting action is very pronounced, feeling a little coarse, and the return angle feels like it's a bit higher than my other ratchets, though I haven't measured it.

Overall, I like both of them, and while they don't have the smoothest feel, I think they fill a unique spot in my ratchet drawer, with the quick turn thumbwheel that both have, and the small 1/2" drive form factor of the Talenta.

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senlow · Apr 28, 2019

101% Loko said:
Wera 762 VW Socket Set (Year ????)

Oooooo. . . I'm lusting for that VW dash nut tool. :drool:

I've never seen the Wera version before.

mr.lemons · Apr 29, 2019

mrspeed said:
They're based in the US out of Ann Arbor, MI. Most of their pliers are made in their own factory in Pakistan, but the above Accu Cut line with the box joint and yellow ESD handles look like rebranded Schmitz pliers.

I've posted a few of the Aven pliers from Pakistan over on the new tools thread. I also talked to their support on email once, which is when they told me that they had their own factories in Pakistan.

They have a bunch on Amazon, but they've also had several of their pliers on clearance directly on their website for a few months now.

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I would try some of their small box joint pliers but shipping to UK costs as much as the pliers.

101% Loko said:
Wera 762 VW Socket Set (Year ????)

Very nice. Haven't seen many vintage Wera tools.

mr.lemons · Apr 29, 2019

PB Swiss, Vessel and Gedore.

PB Swiss PH1, PH2, PZ1, PZ2. Bought as I find the heavy duty drivers a bit heavy for general use (and because it seems I have a bit of a PB Swiss problem).

100% Swiss made.

PH2 SwissGrip compared to PH2 Heavy duty SwissGrip. The heavy duty has a thicker shank and larger handle (both thicker and longer).

Vessel No.980 P.2 Impacta.

'Made in Japan' marked on the packaging and handle.

Some wiggly lines/creases in the handle.

Vessel P.2 tip compared to PB Swiss PH2 tip.

Gedore 2297108 7 R 12 ratchet spanner 12mm. Marked 'Made in germany.'

The beam feels flexible when bent the wrong way. Pretty sure I could fold it in half. Not sure it's significant as the beam does not need to be strong this way but it is a little disconcerting.

Ratchet mechanism appeared to be dry from new but is simple to disassemble and lube.

scubadoober · Apr 29, 2019

I have the 19mm version of the Gedore ratcheting wrench. I pulled mine apart as well and it was dry. I added some 3-1 oil and put it back together. it made the clicking a little more quiet, but I can't say it reduced the back drag all that much. It has a very pronounced ratcheting action and is not as smooth as the Taiwanese competitors. The beam is rigid on the 19mm I guess from the extra meat. I bought it as a trial thinking I would buy more, but it will probably be my last one. Not bad just not good, and the ratcheting wrench world is full of really good.

mr.lemons · Apr 30, 2019

Is the 8000 'E' series of circlip pliers from Gedore new? Never noticed them before. They look similar to Knipex precision circlip pliers with hardened pushed in tips.

8000 E

8000

DEEBO · Apr 30, 2019

scubadoober said:
I have the 19mm version of the Gedore ratcheting wrench. I pulled mine apart as well and it was dry. I added some 3-1 oil and put it back together. it made the clicking a little less quiet, but I can't say it reduced the back drag all that much. It has a very pronounced ratcheting action and is not as smooth as the Taiwanese competitors. The beam is rigid on the 19mm I guess from the extra meat. I bought it as a trial thinking I would buy more, but it will probably be my last one. Not bad just not good, and the ratcheting wrench world is full of really good.

Any personal recommendations for a good ratcheting set? I’ve been waiting to pull the trigger on the Gedore but most people seem to think they’re a bit clunky..

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Tonyuk · Apr 30, 2019

DEEBO said:
Any personal recommendations for a good ratcheting set? I’ve been waiting to pull the trigger on the Gedore but most people seem to think they’re a bit clunky..

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Facom make the best i've used.

Wera jokers are also excellent.

Qualitytools · Apr 30, 2019

Tonyuk said:
Facom make the best i've used.

Wera jokers are also excellent.

I have both the FACOM and the WERA JOCKER, I prefer the FACOM because of the angle for hand clearance and the ability to change direction vs having to flip the wrench over on the JOCKER

Tonyuk · Apr 30, 2019

Qualitytools said:
I have both the FACOM and the WERA JOCKER, I prefer the FACOM because of the angle for hand clearance and the ability to change direction vs having to flip the wrench over on the JOCKER

You can get jokers with an offset, but they're about twice the price of the facom.

Less sizes too;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01KVLLJ70/?tag=atomicindustr-21

Qualitytools · May 1, 2019

Tonyuk said:
You can get jokers with an offset, but they're about twice the price of the facom.

Less sizes too;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01KVLLJ70/?tag=atomicindustr-21

Oh! I didn't know that, must be new, thanks for sharing

DEEBO · May 1, 2019

Tonyuk said:
Facom make the best i've used.

Wera jokers are also excellent.

Thanks, I’ll keep an eye out for any bargains..

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Samuel D · May 3, 2019

I was in Romania a few days ago and visited the Dedeman shop in Oradea where I purchased the following set of IUS open-ended spanners for the grand sum of 107 lei (about €22 or $25 at the moment).

IUS is a Romanian tool company from Brașov founded in 1833 but part of the French MOB conglomerate since 1998. I believe the factory was moved out of the city (to a site nearby) about a decade ago. The tools are aimed at professional users, I suppose mostly car mechanics these days.

These are the ‘STANDARD’ quality spanners. There is also a ‘SUPER’ version (~30% more expensive) that is more elaborately finished before chrome-plating, and a ~30% cheaper version that isn’t chromed but instead seems to have a black oxide or phosphate treatment.

Click on the red […] in the Detalii column on this page for spanner dimensions if you’re interested.

Quality appears reasonable but these are not flawless jewels (and I didn’t expect that at this price). There are a few defects in the chrome plating in the recessed areas where electroplating typically struggles to reach or where the tools rested on their supports in the bath. See my photo of the head of the 19 mm spanner for an obvious example.

Are these better than Taiwanese spanners at a similar price? Debatable! But they’re more interesting to me and perhaps the steel is better if the finish is worse.

mr.lemons · May 4, 2019

^ Interesting. Don't see many MOB tools in the UK. Not managed to figure out where most of their tools are made. They look to be linked to multiple manufacturers in Europe but show no COO on the tools and their ratchets look to be made outside of Europe.

Are MOB branded tools generally considered to be of a pretty good standard across the range regardless of where they're made and who manufactures them?

mrspeed · May 4, 2019

Got a few new ratchets from the Old World. First up, a couple new Bahco wrenches, the 6950 1/4" drive and the 8150-1/2 1/2" drive, shown here next to their Snap On brethren. I really like these. The handles are very comfortable and I think these may be my new go to ratchets... well, either these or the Gedore, but we'll get to that in a minute.

While the Snap Ons are made in the USA, the Bahco ratchets are made in Spain, which you can see on the box of the 1/2" drive ratchet. I took them apart to see if they had the dual 80 internals of the Snap On. As you can see in the pictures, they look practically identical. The Snap On is a little shallower and has long screws that insert from the back while the Bahco has short screws that insert from the front. The Snap On is also about 30% heavier despite having no grip on the handle.

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mrspeed · May 4, 2019

Next up we have the DeWalt DWMT75271 1/2" drive round head ratchet. Like the Bahcos, there no COO anywhere on the ratchet itself, not I've seen online that the packaging says made in Italy, and I've also read it shares internals with the Facom/USAG round head ratchets. I'm not usually a big fan of the round head ratchets, but also like the Bahcos, I got a really good deal on it and had to try it out.

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mrspeed · May 4, 2019

And finally, this is probably my new favorite ratchet. It's the Gedore 1993 ALU-10 1/2" drive ratchet. It's made out of high strength aluminum for light weight, useful for working overhead. It is by far the smoothest ratchet I've ever used. The handle is also pretty comfortable, though not quite as comfortable in all have positions as the Bahco. And it feels solid despite its light weight.

It's a little heavier than the Heyco Talenta 1/2" drive in a 3/8 body that I posted last week, but much lighter relative to the additional torque allowed by the actual length. And you can see it's also much lighter than the full size Varicat version of the Heyco, as well as the other ratchets in the previous two posts.

Also if anyone is curious, the Bahcos and Snap Ons obviously are the dual 80 design, the DeWalt is 72 teeth I believe, and I believe the Gedore and Heyco ratchets are all 48 teeth.

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DEEBO · May 5, 2019

mrspeed said:
And finally, this is probably my new favorite ratchet. It's the Gedore 1993 ALU-10 1/2" drive ratchet. It's made out of high strength aluminum for light weight, useful for working overhead. It is by far the smoothest ratchet I've ever used. The handle is also pretty comfortable, though not quite as comfortable in all have positions as the Bahco. And it feels solid despite its light weight.

It's a little heavier than the Heyco Talenta 1/2" drive in a 3/8 body that I posted last week, but much lighter relative to the additional torque allowed by the actual length. And you can see it's also much lighter than the full size Varicat version of the Heyco, as well as the other ratchets in the previous two posts.

Also if anyone is curious, the Bahcos and Snap Ons obviously are the dual 80 design, the DeWalt is 72 teeth I believe, and I believe the Gedore and Heyco ratchets are all 48 teeth.

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Is there a COO on the Heyco ratchet? Few bits I've had from them lately have nothing.. Always suspicious.

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mrspeed · May 5, 2019

DEEBO said:
Is there a COO on the Heyco ratchet? Few bits I've had from them lately have nothing.. Always suspicious.

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Yes, both are made in Germany and have Germany stamped on both the ratchet bodies and the handles. I have a lot of Heyco stuff and almost all are made in Germany, though I specifically steer clear of their budget line, Heytec, and I also don't have any of their bits.

The ratchets seem well built, but because the ratcheting mechanisms are held in with retaining clips instead of screws, there is a slight wrinkle to them that I could do without. Also the handles are hard plastic, not rubber, which makes them feel a little cheaper but also easier to clean. I'm keeping them in my ratchet drawer particularly because the quick turn thumbwheel seems like it could prove useful.

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Reed Prince · May 5, 2019

Looks like Aven is still liquidating three of the German tungsten carbide cutters on www.aventools.com, with free UPS ground shipping.

DEEBO · May 6, 2019

mrspeed said:
Yes, both are made in Germany and have Germany stamped on both the ratchet bodies and the handles. I have a lot of Heyco stuff and almost all are made in Germany, though I specifically steer clear of their budget line, Heytec, and I also don't have any of their bits.

The ratchets seem well built, but because the ratcheting mechanisms are held in with retaining clips instead of screws, there is a slight wrinkle to them that I could do without. Also the handles are hard plastic, not rubber, which makes them feel a little cheaper but also easier to clean. I'm keeping them in my ratchet drawer particularly because the quick turn thumbwheel seems like it could prove useful.

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Ok, thanks.

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anothertor · May 6, 2019

mrspeed said:
They look even more identical with the other handle design shown here.

There are several other brands that relabel the Schmitz pliers. A few of them use the exact same handle design in the same color as the Aven ones.

Here are the Elora versions.

Here are the NWS versions.

And here are the Gedore versions, though my Gedore ESD pliers have the same handle style as the ones above, just blue, like the Schmitz versions in the first link above.

What's really interesting is that you can see on their website the different options Schmitz provides for relabeling their pliers, allowing brands to mix and match different handles, finishes, joints, and models.

Out of all the different relabeled brands I have, Elora is my favorite configuration of Schmitz pliers. They offer a pretty full range of all the models Schmitz has, and I really like the polished black chrome finish the Elora versions have. I haven't seen that finish available anywhere else yet, even directly from Schmitz.

Good info! These look exactly like my knipex esd cutters as well.

marlinspike · May 6, 2019

Do any of you euro tool fans have thoughts on the Compac jack stands vs Esco? Are the Compac jack stands made with a higher level of care, or am I really just choosing between padded flat top or saddle?

Also, anybody have thoughts on the Compac 90555 vs the old reliable AC hydraulic? Seems like the AC might be lower (except at the very lowest point) than the 90555 for the first 20 inches or so? I wonder which one comes in handy more in practice. Can the 90555 lift a Porshce 911 at the rear?

Man I wish there were a way to get the OMCN 1130/XR jack in the USA.

Samuel D · May 7, 2019

mr.lemons said:
Are MOB branded tools generally considered to be of a pretty good standard across the range regardless of where they're made and who manufactures them?

Not sure. I wouldn’t say these IUS open-ended spanners are made to an especially high standard, but they have every chance of being good value. Time will tell, because I got them to use.

Here’s a 1/2"-drive Facom socket set I recently acquired.

Sockets go down to 8 mm, presumably suggesting it was made before 3/8"-drive became popular here in France. (A lot of people used 1/4" and 1/2" only). The box is labelled “OGV” but every item including the sockets is marked “France”. Does that date it pretty well? Anyone know the Facom product number of this set?

Several of the sockets have never been used but the 8, 11, 13, 17, and 19 mm have seen torque. They still work fine. The chrome is magnificent. The ratchet works beautifully but has signs of abuse on the cap (still available as a spare part for a couple of euros). I bought it off someone whose garage looked like a part-time car mechanic’s 30 km outside Paris. Not sure if I got a good deal or not. I talked him down to €70 (about $78).

Tonyuk · May 7, 2019

Samuel D said:
The box is labelled “OGV” but every item including the sockets is marked “France”. Does that date it pretty well? Anyone know the Facom product number of this set?

OGV is facoms name for their off-corner engagement profile.

Like flank drive.

Dont know if you could date it from that.

dkroth · May 7, 2019

Samuel D said:
The box is labelled “OGV” but every item including the sockets is marked “France”. Does that date it pretty well?

I'll guess late '80's to mid-'90's.

I have a similar set bought in the late '90's that has the newer style ratchet and the case is red. I'd say that set hasn't seen much use. The plastic liner is still in tact.

Is the black rubber handle all gummy? I have a 3/8" ratchet in that style. I have to clean the handle before using it.

.

driven04 · May 7, 2019

I just picked up a variety of electronics snips/side cutters to evaluate as I plan on buying a larger selection. I wish I could pick up a pair of those schmitz rebrands. I have a knipex, schmitz, piergiacomi, and tsunoda heading my way right now and I'll be sure to provide some feedback on them in the coming weeks

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