Have you done the math?
How much is your trailer going to weigh?
What is the rating of the design you are copying?
20ft Car Trailer Build Planning Ideas
- Thread starter Elvenhome21
- Start date
How much is your trailer going to weigh?
What is the rating of the design you are copying?
OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
I will never willing put a St tire on. I've had several Carlisle tires explode on me with no warning. Yet car tires that replaced the Carlisle which have been extremely overloaded on occasion have never once given me a problem. Plus truck tires don't have a 65mph limit
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OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
I'm not using Timbren axles, I'm copying the idea but it will match closer to the Dakota air axles. The axles I'm using/modifying are i believe 6k axles. Actual weight I haven't figured out yet. I don't know what cross member spacing I'm using. But I might add a another piece of channel under the tongue to add some strength to it.
OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
Rough estimate for steel length and weight is 60' for frame and tongue and 50' for cross members. Estimated weight 900-1000 lbs plus decking. Then add another 4-500 for suspension and air ride components. So with steel decking it'll prob come out right at 2k lbs.
koditten
Well-known member
If you are going to stay with us here At the GJ you need to addsomething to your profile? I feel like I am talking to a wall here. Give us some info. We know absolutly nothing about your abilities, location, hobbies.
I tell everyone new to add stuff to the profile. People will check your profile evertime you post something. It doesn't have to detailed. We aren't looking for SSN or CC#s, just general stuff. Its also a great place to keep photos of your projects.
I love your plans, keep the questions and thoughts coming. Seeing how trailers are my passion, this new air ride system had me greatly interested.
Later
KO
I tell everyone new to add stuff to the profile. People will check your profile evertime you post something. It doesn't have to detailed. We aren't looking for SSN or CC#s, just general stuff. Its also a great place to keep photos of your projects.
I love your plans, keep the questions and thoughts coming. Seeing how trailers are my passion, this new air ride system had me greatly interested.
Later
KO
OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
How far apart do you think I can space the cross members. Maxey use 16" w/3" channel which IMO is way to close (to much added weight) for my application. With our superlite 2x4x1/8 tubing throughout we did 36" I think with 2x10 deck and seems pretty strong. I was thinking going with 30 or 36" spacing with 4" tubing or channel with a 1/8 steel deck maybe .100 plate, if need be I can add a piece of angle iron under where the tires will be to keep the plate from bowing. In the area of the suspension I'll space them closer together for torsional rigidity.
koditten
Well-known member
If you are using 1/8" plate, you are going to be disappointed with anything over 24" spaces. The plate will sag just from its own weight. It will absolutly drive you nuts.
I need you to clarify what you are using for cross members. for most 8k trailers, you really don't need anything heavier than 2 x 2 x 14 gauge tube. If you are going to haul tractors with loaded tires I would think about 1.5 x 3 x 1/8" rectangular tube. the 1 x 3 stuff is a great way to save weight but increase strength. Remember the vertical part of the tube is the part that you get your streangth from. If you are using plate steel, you do not need a huge area to weld to.
Later
KO
I need you to clarify what you are using for cross members. for most 8k trailers, you really don't need anything heavier than 2 x 2 x 14 gauge tube. If you are going to haul tractors with loaded tires I would think about 1.5 x 3 x 1/8" rectangular tube. the 1 x 3 stuff is a great way to save weight but increase strength. Remember the vertical part of the tube is the part that you get your streangth from. If you are using plate steel, you do not need a huge area to weld to.
Later
KO
Justanoldguy
Well-known member
Sorry but you lost me here.
koditten
Well-known member
I assumed that he meant trailer tires. Most are bias ply. Almost all are Asian made, poorly too.
There are a few good radial brands.
I don't want to get into the argument about trailer duty vs light truck duty tires. that has been done to death.
Later
KO
There are a few good radial brands.
I don't want to get into the argument about trailer duty vs light truck duty tires. that has been done to death.
Later
KO
OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
Few and expensive. And not readily available.
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koditten
Well-known member
BTW, thanks for throwing a bit of info in the profile. You will find it useful to toss random stuff in there.
Keep us in the loop.
Later
KO
Keep us in the loop.
Later
KO
64Trvlr
Well-known member
My $.02 is to use a Bulldog hitch. It's easy to use and even easier to check to make sure it is latched correctly.
Don't forget back up lights on the trailer. You might also want some work lights up by the tire/tools. I have a winch on all my trailers and it's a life saver. I use a dedicated battery for it and use that to power work/load lights.
Have you thought about the steel deck, slick tires and rain/dew etc. That's always a fun thing to watch as somebody tries to load a car.
Since you're starting from scratch use nothing but LED's for all your lights.
Don't forget back up lights on the trailer. You might also want some work lights up by the tire/tools. I have a winch on all my trailers and it's a life saver. I use a dedicated battery for it and use that to power work/load lights.
Have you thought about the steel deck, slick tires and rain/dew etc. That's always a fun thing to watch as somebody tries to load a car.
Since you're starting from scratch use nothing but LED's for all your lights.
OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
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koditten
Well-known member
Back up lights should be standard equipment, unfortunately they are not. I put them on my own car hauler. You won't regret it.
As for the wiring, just make all connections accessible. They are always the weakest link.
Later
KO
As for the wiring, just make all connections accessible. They are always the weakest link.
Later
KO
64Trvlr
Well-known member
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mebuildit
Well-known member
I also put a 8000lb winch on the front, mounts for 6 fuel jugs, tongue box and a hydraulic tongue jack as well. Everywhere I take this thing, people are all over it and sometimes they want to buy it.
OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
With the led lights do you ever have a issue with the lights partially breaking. A lot of led lights on semi trailers (3" round gromet style) have issues with the solder breaking on the bread board and a section of the lights stop working.
koditten
Well-known member
That is one, auwesome trailer. You have my gratitude for posting pics.
As for the LED lights, im pretty confidant that I have used all different makes. My professional opinion is that the worst LED lights are still better then the best incandescent lights. I use the 6" ovals so that is what I am referring to.
Later
KO
As for the LED lights, im pretty confidant that I have used all different makes. My professional opinion is that the worst LED lights are still better then the best incandescent lights. I use the 6" ovals so that is what I am referring to.
Later
KO
mebuildit
Well-known member
I never intended to hijack this thread. I wanted to show you guys another option that I have done. The tilt trailer is really awesome to say the least. I really like how low that trailer goes especially for lowered cars.
OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
Its a thread for planning and ideas. Dont worry about it. I look at this as more of a thinktank for trying to combine all the things you want in a trailer and all the things a person never thought of to add.
xtremek
Well-known member
The wiring should be the eaisest part. For durability and ease, using crimp connectors with adhesive lined heat shrink is hard to beat. I agree with the LED's. Keep away from or break all sharp corners and shove them in a sleeve. I've wired dozens of custom cars, trucks, robots, tractors, motorcycles etc. and never had any issues. Properly spaced Adel clamps to support if you're not running inside of tubing. Weatherpack connectors if you're going to want to replace individual components are almost bulletproof, but comparatively expensive. Electrical doesn't move, so making it bulletproof is a no brainer. The same with the air system. Drop it by the house and I'll hook you up. When you do this build, post it please. I'm going to build a car hauler as well and I have many of the same constraints, wanting haul lowered vehicles(current truck sits at 4" and is going to the ground) and I'm too darn old to want to crawl out a window. Seeing as my tow vehicles are, or are going to be air ride, the air ride part is what I was thinking.
Along those lines have you thought of a rollback trailer? A friend of mine has an older Texas Rollback that is a slick setup, I've borrowed it to move cars too low to get on my conventional ramp-load trailer. Kwik Load is another manufacturer http://www.kwikload.com/.
These have the suspension attached to it's own frame that slides under the trailer deck. pull two pins, apply the trailer brakes and back up and the back of the trailer is on the ground. Load the car, pull forward and lock the pins and your back on the road.
The suspension is all standard parts, so easy to maintain and no worry about pumps, batteries and air or hydraulic systems.
That said, I do like the air ride idea as well, lots of good ideas here!
OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
Well Im finally getting enough of a bug up my **** to want to start tackling this project. Or at least get some hard details worked out. Doesnt look like Im getting my shop built this year so its going to be interesting doing this build.
I got 2 options right now for axles and im not sure which way im going to proceed. I have 2 mobile home axles with #42 spindles so I can buy new hubs and convert to a 6 or 8 bolt pattern. Being that they have to be narrowed anyways, I can cut some 1 1/4 plate to make a 6" drop axle. These are rated at 6-7k lb axles per axle.
Option 2 would be buy ebay axles 3.5k 4" drop axles are about $200 a piece vs 5.2k are $325. Downside to these are its only 4" drop and they are in Michigan so road trip.
Im leaning more towards option 1 for right now unless when I tear apart the axles i have I find out the brakes are junk. Then its option 2.
Im looking at something like this for an air compressor setup but havent found anybody in the air ride world to give there advice yet. http://www.amazon.com/VIAIR-150-PSI-High-Flow-Source/dp/B000X9LTXA/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
Looking at some of these pictures Im really surprised at the lack of quality in some areas or at least appearance of some of the welds in these pictures being this is a production item http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Maxey-Drop-N-Load-Air-Ride-Car-Hauler-81-x20-Perfect-for-Low-Cars-/251454067321?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3a8bd49279&item=251454067321&pt=Motors_Trailers
Im thinking for the frame, going with 6x2 8.2# channel for the main rail from the tongue all the way to tail in one plane, then adding a 4" channel under that rail from half way on the tongue to about half way to the axles so it has a double stacked frame at the **** joint of the tongue. That should be more then enough strength and still keep the tongue frame rails high enough for my needs.
Steel price seems a little high but Im thinking my local supplier would give me better a better price for the quantity of the order. ***** that diamond plate is almost double the cost of sheet steel.
I got 2 options right now for axles and im not sure which way im going to proceed. I have 2 mobile home axles with #42 spindles so I can buy new hubs and convert to a 6 or 8 bolt pattern. Being that they have to be narrowed anyways, I can cut some 1 1/4 plate to make a 6" drop axle. These are rated at 6-7k lb axles per axle.
Option 2 would be buy ebay axles 3.5k 4" drop axles are about $200 a piece vs 5.2k are $325. Downside to these are its only 4" drop and they are in Michigan so road trip.
Im leaning more towards option 1 for right now unless when I tear apart the axles i have I find out the brakes are junk. Then its option 2.
Im looking at something like this for an air compressor setup but havent found anybody in the air ride world to give there advice yet. http://www.amazon.com/VIAIR-150-PSI-High-Flow-Source/dp/B000X9LTXA/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
Looking at some of these pictures Im really surprised at the lack of quality in some areas or at least appearance of some of the welds in these pictures being this is a production item http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Maxey-Drop-N-Load-Air-Ride-Car-Hauler-81-x20-Perfect-for-Low-Cars-/251454067321?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3a8bd49279&item=251454067321&pt=Motors_Trailers
Im thinking for the frame, going with 6x2 8.2# channel for the main rail from the tongue all the way to tail in one plane, then adding a 4" channel under that rail from half way on the tongue to about half way to the axles so it has a double stacked frame at the **** joint of the tongue. That should be more then enough strength and still keep the tongue frame rails high enough for my needs.
Steel price seems a little high but Im thinking my local supplier would give me better a better price for the quantity of the order. ***** that diamond plate is almost double the cost of sheet steel.
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Elvenhome21
Well-known member
Bogey I appreciate your advice but its really hard to read your post and I take it you didnt read my entire post or the entire thread for that matter because most of the things you mentioned have already been gone over.
As for the mobile home axle. The only thing im using off of them is the spindles and maybe the tube which are the exact same as a 5200-7000lb axle so I dont see how they are "junk". Yes the hubs/wheels are a ****** design but im not using those hubs, They are being switched to 6 or 8 lug hubs/brakes.
I said originally. I have very specific requirements for a trailer.
Low ground clearance vehicle (ramps **** to load, bumper drags) Hence air ride and dove tail.
Air ride for a way better ride
Deck width is critical. Very wide car that doesn't fit on many trailers.
Fender height is another issue. Im sick of banging doors on the fender or not being able to open them because the fenders in the way.
Yes I can buy a used trailer that more then likely has never had the hubs greased or the wiring is a rats nest. Id rather start with NEW and not have to compromise on having a trailer that doesnt fit my needs completely. Ive yet to see any trailer other than a parker trailer (reliable custom racing trailer) that comes close to being logical for a racer.
As for the mobile home axle. The only thing im using off of them is the spindles and maybe the tube which are the exact same as a 5200-7000lb axle so I dont see how they are "junk". Yes the hubs/wheels are a ****** design but im not using those hubs, They are being switched to 6 or 8 lug hubs/brakes.
I said originally. I have very specific requirements for a trailer.
Low ground clearance vehicle (ramps **** to load, bumper drags) Hence air ride and dove tail.
Air ride for a way better ride
Deck width is critical. Very wide car that doesn't fit on many trailers.
Fender height is another issue. Im sick of banging doors on the fender or not being able to open them because the fenders in the way.
Yes I can buy a used trailer that more then likely has never had the hubs greased or the wiring is a rats nest. Id rather start with NEW and not have to compromise on having a trailer that doesnt fit my needs completely. Ive yet to see any trailer other than a parker trailer (reliable custom racing trailer) that comes close to being logical for a racer.
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ishiboo
Well-known member
A used trailer you can inspect the wheel bearings/brakes on and verify or fix to get things 100% safe and back to their original working order. Mobile home axle parts you will always be working with parts designed for a single trip with 4 other axles, designed to be throw-away.
If you build, I also like C channel as it allows you to paint and inspect all of the "exposed" metal, whereas tube can begin to rot from the inside out. I think it's also a bit easier to weld correctly for cross-members/etc. than thinner wall tube.
Do you race at RoadAmerica?
If you build, I also like C channel as it allows you to paint and inspect all of the "exposed" metal, whereas tube can begin to rot from the inside out. I think it's also a bit easier to weld correctly for cross-members/etc. than thinner wall tube.
Do you race at RoadAmerica?
xtremek
Well-known member
Do us a favor and make this a build thread, pretty please?!
OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
Reply
Here is my 32' flatbed car hauler I designed. I made it hydraulic so the two rams drop the ramp, and wired in a wireless remote from a winch to power it up while I'm in the car. Here are some build pictures and almost finished pics.
I also put a 8000lb winch on the front, mounts for 6 fuel jugs, tongue box and a hydraulic tongue jack as well. Everywhere I take this thing, people are all over it and sometimes they want to buy it.
What did you use for beams?
Also, what did you use for your hydraulics for the rear?
I'm building one soon with a Timbren axleless setup.
OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
Well its about time to get this project underway. The biggest thing i keep getting hung up on is finding the right air bags. Can anybody that deals with airbags point me in the right direction for airbags that are rated above 2500lbs. Id like to stay under 9" diameter but I need at least 7-9 in of stroke with a compressed height of less than 4.5".
Im open to rolling lobe springs but from what ive read they handle less weight for size/diameter when compared to double convoluted springs.
Im open to rolling lobe springs but from what ive read they handle less weight for size/diameter when compared to double convoluted springs.
volleyball
Well-known member
I would think contacting bag mfg would give you the best solution for finding the right sized bag.
I would think a hinged dovetail would give you more flexibility. Something that goes above level. You drive on a flat dovetail and then lower the trailer thereby lifting the front. Plus it could be up when traveling. I've seen a few low trailers get hung up going into driveways on roads with a large crown.
I would think a hinged dovetail would give you more flexibility. Something that goes above level. You drive on a flat dovetail and then lower the trailer thereby lifting the front. Plus it could be up when traveling. I've seen a few low trailers get hung up going into driveways on roads with a large crown.
joe49
Well-known member
Look them up at McMaster-Carr.
xtremek
Well-known member
Firestone? Ride Tech? I would think finding 2500lb bags would be easy, but I've never tired. How about a heavy/medium duty truck repair shop?
That is just awesome!
OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
2500lb isnt big enough. Im looking at 2800lb bags or above to give some leeway if I haul something heavy like my dads tractor. And by having bigger bags then needed you run less air pressure and get a smoother ride.
OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
The biggest problem I have with the hinged trailer is the extra weight and strength needed to do that. Im trying to keep it as lite weight and strong with as little to go wrong as possible.
As far as getting hung up, Im putting some sort of rollers under the tail to keep from dragging. But Ive never really had a problem with our low trailers dragging to bad. Im shooting for around 12-16" tail ride height which is more then our current trailers.
OP
Elvenhome21
Well-known member
This is where Im at for semi final layout. Its about as close as I can get for geometry to come out and still have the axles where I need them for weight.
Its a 6" dove tail for the last 4 feet, the axles are 6" drop.
The dimension on the print are a little off from when I scaled it. but they are rounded off to the closest foot
Things im still debating on are electric trailer jack vs manual (anybody have input on the electrics), mounting the bags behind the axle to give it better mechanical advantage, plus I might be able to use rolling lobe air bags from a class 6-8 truck because it would be a fairly straight vertical travel. (i can get them for about $25 a piece) if they have the shorter style.
Frame Im pretty sure Im going with 6" channel with a 3" channel under the tongue to tie it together. Im leaning more toward 6 lug axles now with offset set for truck wheels.
Anybody see anything that doesnt look right
Its a 6" dove tail for the last 4 feet, the axles are 6" drop.
The dimension on the print are a little off from when I scaled it. but they are rounded off to the closest foot
Things im still debating on are electric trailer jack vs manual (anybody have input on the electrics), mounting the bags behind the axle to give it better mechanical advantage, plus I might be able to use rolling lobe air bags from a class 6-8 truck because it would be a fairly straight vertical travel. (i can get them for about $25 a piece) if they have the shorter style.
Frame Im pretty sure Im going with 6" channel with a 3" channel under the tongue to tie it together. Im leaning more toward 6 lug axles now with offset set for truck wheels.
Anybody see anything that doesnt look right
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mark18mwm
Well-known member
I think xtremek is right, go to a heavy truck parts supplier for a set of air bags. They will call them "air springs". Most heavy trucks on the road these days ride on air springs and weight is not a issue with these suspensions. there are large bags for more weight down to tiny air bags for the suspension in the drivers seat and everything in between. I think if you know what you will need for dimensions, inflated (max) height, deflated height (thickness, mounting style and diameter they will fix you right up. there a huge variety of sizes so I'm very sure when you decide what you need they will fix you up. I did a google search around Sheyboygan and found a couple places you might look, Lakeshore fleet maintenance, Marquart ( a Mack dealer) and a couple others. Air bags are very common any truck parts supplier should be able to fix you up. If you have any friends that work on truck and trailers give them a run down of your plans and ask their advise. Good luck, I think it will make a great trailer.
koditten
Well-known member
You are going to need drop tube axles for that diagram to work. The axle tube on 5k axles are 4" OD, if memory servese me correctly.
The electric jack is a wonderful idea. I've put several on. I like them alot. I only had one customer that didn't like it. They do stand taller than a hand crank. Be aware that they may hit the tail gate on a truck when you lower the tail gate.
I would make the tonge out of 4" channel, three is a bit light if you plan on hauling medium heavy equipment.
I got nothing to offer on the air bags, as I have never used them, but am really looking forward to seeing this trailer develope.
Later
KO