Bought Bridgeport Clone - Now Getting it Set Up for Basic Machining

[bulletpruf]

Seems like a nice idea. I question how often it would actually get used. It's not trivial to spin the turret around and then have to re-tram when you spin it back. I've seen a couple of machines (pictures actually) with shaper attachments on the back but I've no idea how often that feature would get used by most of us.

I'll make room for a drill press, I think.

thanks

 

[bulletpruf]

I don't know if this has been touched on so I will go ahead with my experience. Typically most end mills will be four flute or two flute. So what are the advantages of both. My experience is that four flute end mills are better suited for steel and two flute for aluminum. The two flute allow for more chip buildup in the flutes but don't work as well for steel. Another thing that has not been addressed as far as I know is conventional milling versus climb milling. Climb milling works well to get a good finish on aluminum for a finish cut because the material does not resist the cutter as much as steel would. I seldom use climb milling on steel. I like using WD 40 on aluminum and Tapmatic for steel as my lubricants. I have dedicated containers for each with acid brushes to apply as necessary. I would also recommend using the shortest end mill you have to do the job to avoid deflection and spring back.

A few more things for your consideration

Yes, when I was doing basic research on end mills, I saw the difference. I have several four-flute end mills on the way. I need some two flute.

Thanks

 

[bulletpruf]

Get at least four 1-2-3 blocks. When you take the vise off and want to machine a plate you will need at least four to keep from damaging the table.

I'll get two more ordered. They're not expensive.

I know that you are trying to save money but I cannot emphasize enough "Buy nice or buy twice". I caught a lot of flak over recommending a Bridgeport but I will never regret spending $3000.00 dollars for the one I have. I bought it off Craigslist and I was the first one to call and there were a dozen after me. I would buy a semi truck full of them for that price if I could. I have traveled out of state to get lathes and other equipment that I needed. If mileage is a problem, you don't need it bad enough. A tank of gas and a motel room are nothing in the scheme of things. I have slept in the back of my Hotel Ford and never had a problem.
I will stop now.

I try to find that sweet spot for tool purchases - something that's high quality at a reasonable price. If it's something critical or something that can hurt me if it fails (I realize milling equipment could very well land in this category), then I'm more likely to disregard price.

Thanks

 

[bulletpruf]

Here is a little more food for thought.

You should have a complete drill index Letter, Number, and fractional up to 1/2 inch.

I do have this - a high quality kit in HSS.

I have storage for more drill bits that you absolutely don't need. I would recommend that you have more of the sizes that you use the most, in my case .125, .250, .3125, .375, .500. You will find out for yourself and can decide.

I do need more .125, .250, .3125, .375, and .500. Added to shopping list.

I have some home made storage for my drills larger than .500 and think it is worthwhile to organize them - better than I have done.

I have a selection of Silver and Deming drills that I really like. They are shorter in length than a standard drill and have flats ground on them to keep them from spinning in the drill chuck. This bit I salvaged from a previous employer that was being trashed because someone (not me) did not chuck it up correctly.

I have a basic selection of larger Silver and Deming bits.

This is a Tap/Drill stand I made probably 40 years ago that has served me well and you might benefit from by making something much nicer. You get the idea.

I have a good selection of inch and metric taps, but not top quality. I need to upgrade.

Files are overlooked and are abused unnecessarily. They are necessary for what we do and deserve respect. If you look at the center of the photo to the left of the squirt bottle my needle files are stored in a small can that I stuffed with foam to protect them.

I have a reasonably good selection of quality files and I do take good care of them.

Keep your eye out for Kennedy tool boxes. They are the industry standard and are reasonably priced second hand. The center drawer is made for holding the Machinery's Handbook. All of their latest tool boxes make the same accomodation for the book.

Yep. I have a few spare toolboxes that I can use until I replenish the money tree and find something appropriate.

Get a good tap/drill chart. I think Starrett makes the best. If you contact them they will send you a wall chart and ones you can keep in your pocket. They are very generous. My wall chart is between the Bridgeport and my Clausing lathe and I rely on it all the time. I have contacted them for handouts for when I have had High School tours in my shop and before I retired to educate engineers. They don't support me in anyway, but their tools are top notch. I also like Brown and Sharpe and Mitutoyo. It's like Ford or Chevy.

Good piece of gear. I'll add it to the shopping list.

I hope this is beneficial to someone. I would like to learn what others would recommend, or if they disagree with me I am welcome to that as well.

Thanks

 

[bulletpruf]

I have a somewhat different view: The most critical thing for getting started is a part you need to make. Ideally something simple enough for you to actually make.

Starting with that part (end goal), figure out what steps are needed to make the part. Then figure out how to execute each of these steps. Part of this will be figuring out what tools and cutters you need for each step. Get these tools and cutters. Debate with yourself whether to get inexpensive ones (because you will probably break them) or good ones (because the cheap ones ****).

Make the part. Determine if is acceptable or if you need to make another one. Repeat until you have a good enough part.

Now - take a step back. Look at everything that happened. Think about how it could be better. Realize that there are certain basic techniques you need to improve and start to work on improving them.

Remember that skill and expertise are a result of practice and learning. Skill is something you learn from practice, not something you start with. There are only two things to fear: 1. Not doing anything. 2. Making mistakes that get you hurt. Your main consideration is to keep your blood inside your body!

Most people are goal oriented - they learn better while working toward a defined goal as opposed to learning all of the fundamentals first and then working toward a specific goal. As an example, grinding your own HSS bits is a valuable skill - but it isn't one you need to master before making your first part. Wait until you need a custom ground bit for making a part and then learn how to grind a bit.

You are at the beginning of a long and interesting journey. Make sure you enjoy the ongoing journey and don't get turned off or overwhelmed on your first steps.

Thanks for the input. I'm inclined to get the basics now since tooling isn't terribly expensive and getting the mill well under budget left some funds for tooling.

Scott

 

[whateg01]

I do need more .125, .250, .3125, .375, and .500. Added to shopping list.

If you can sharpen them, you don't need a bunch of each size. It's convenient to drop a dull or damaged drill in the "to be sharpened" box and grab another, but it generally takes less and 30 seconds to touch up a drill that is dull.

 

[bulletpruf]

Just one more thing...
Please be super careful. This machine can rip the skin and fingers right off your arm in a split second and not even slow down. Even if you have a mentor, watch all the videos you can. Even if the experts are doing things you can't imagine doing, there's always something you can take away from them.
Oxtoolco
Topper Machine
Max Grant Swan Valley Machine shop
The older Abom79 videos
These are are the channels I watch as they are 99% manual machine guys. Unfortunately I don't have someone to mentor me so these resources are great.

Well, I did 28 years on active duty with the Army, numerous hazardous duty areas and several combat zones, jumped out of several dozen perfectly good airplanes, and have been shot at, rocketed, and mortared. After having survived that, I'd rather not meet my maker because of something stupid or careless I did in the shop.

 

[alfadan]

Well, I did 28 years on active duty with the Army, numerous hazardous duty areas and several combat zones, jumped out of several dozen perfectly good airplanes, and have been shot at, rocketed, and mortared. After having survived that, I'd rather not meet my maker because of something stupid or careless I did in the shop.

Oh yeah? well I drive near a bunch of teenage girls!

 

[bulletpruf]

Oh yeah? well I drive near a bunch of teenage girls!

You may have me beat!

 

[bimmer1980]

An interesting YouTube channel is Cutting Edge Engineering from Australia. That guys does a lot of neat heavy equipment repairs that you may find helpful.

Personally, while there is a lot of great info shared here, no need to get carried away with buying too much tooling until you have a better idea of what you need to machine. Maybe you already have that figured out, but it's easy to get caught up in the need to buy every widget and gidget....

Let's get the beast turn on and see how it runs....

Then if you have some clamps, a vise and a drill collet, at least you can poke some holes... which it sounds as tho most of that stuff is on the way.

When does the forklift arrive??? ;-)

 

[bulletpruf]

An interesting YouTube channel is Cutting Edge Engineering from Australia. That guys does a lot of neat heavy equipment repairs that you may find helpful.

I'll check them out.

Personally, while there is a lot of great info shared here, no need to get carried away with buying too much tooling until you have a better idea of what you need to machine. Maybe you already have that figured out, but it's easy to get caught up in the need to buy every widget and gidget....

Well, it's a slippery slope, isn't it? At least the tooling is relatively inexpensive. At least at this point.

Let's get the beast turn on and see how it runs....

Yep. I think it's time to buy a VFD.

Then if you have some clamps, a vise and a drill collet, at least you can poke some holes... which it sounds as tho most of that stuff is on the way.

Yep, I either have that stuff or it's on the way.

When does the forklift arrive??? ;-)

Damn good question! Only issue is where do I park it. Met my new shop neighbors this weekend; they own/operate 3 Matco tool trucks. I was hoping they had a need for a forklift so I could share one with them, but they don't.

 

[bulletpruf]

Then the KBAC-27d will be your easiest solution.

KBAC-27D Black (9520) AC Drives, Nema 4x Inverter 2 HP, 115/230 Vac 1-Phase Input, 230 Vac 3-Phase Output, Nema 4x Enclosure, Variable Frequency Drives

kb-controls.com

And you will want the FWD reverse switch kit

https://kb-controls.com/9480-forward-stop-reverse-switch/

And the on/off switch kit.

https://kb-controls.com/9523-kbac-kbda-27d-power-on-off-switch-kit/

It’s a good idea to use shielded vfd wire between the vfd and motor
https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...ire_-a-_cable/motor_supply_cable/vfdc-14-4b-1

and some cable glands.
Probably just 3/4” but it depends on the lines cable you use.

https://www.automationdirect.com/ad..._glands/national_pipe_thread_(npt)/bspdx-13-w

Of course you will need a lines cable and suitable plug or a disconnect box.

Just ordered all the above.

Mill budget exhausted for now, so I'll have to cease fire on new purchases for a bit.

Thanks,

Scott

 

[Steve from Socal]

X10 on a drop deck trailer, stay safe.

I don't know,

Given the size of the 'toys' an RGN and heavy spec tractor may be more likely. Just think of the tools and machines you can bring home! I am speaking from experience, I have a hunded tons or so of old iron here. After the melt down in 2008 I went to several auctions and bought lots of machines/ tooling, problem is every Tom, **** and, Harry want stuff for B-ports and small machines. The big boys are just about given away.

 

[Firstram]

Well, I did 28 years on active duty with the Army, numerous hazardous duty areas and several combat zones, jumped out of several dozen perfectly good airplanes, and have been shot at, rocketed, and mortared. After having survived that, I'd rather not meet my maker because of something stupid or careless I did in the shop.

In that case, don‘t wear gloves or loose long sleeves and the damage will be limited to single digits! Thanks for your service!

 

[bulletpruf]

In that case, don‘t wear gloves or loose long sleeves and the damage will be limited to single digits! Thanks for your service!

Yeah, I've seen some pretty gory pictures of machinists who had some clothing get caught in some machinery and ended up getting eaten by it.

Maternal grandfather was a fabricator/machinist and was missing about 3.5 fingers because of a mishap with a band saw...

 

[Firstram]

In all seriousness, I know two guys that have mangled themselves with drill presses.

The first guy has a big toe for a thumb because he was trying to hold down a piece of pipe while drilling a 1/2” hole. The second guy was wearing leather gloves and tried to wipe the rats nest of swarf off of an annular cutter. He pulled off the 2 small fingers on his right hand!

I feel like a DP is more dangerous than a mill because people are generally cavalier about a seemingly mundane tool, they’re wrong!

 

[rdoty]

* Safety glasses on as soon as you walk through the door.

* No gloves around spinny things.

* No long sleeves around spinny things.

* Everything in the shop is out to kill you or maim you. They often act mild mannered until you trust them or your back is turned. Don't trust them!

* Any part being machined needs to be bolted or clamped down. Your hands aren't clamps - don't even think about trying!

* Everything in the shop is sharp, hot, or heavy until proven otherwise. And it can't be proven otherwise...

* Keep body parts out from under falling anything. The heavier it is the harder it lands!

* With power tools I do a tools down and walk away as soon as I start getting tired. Or comfortable with the machine - many accidents happen when you drop your guard.

 

[whateg01]

Yeah, I've seen some pretty gory pictures of machinists who had some clothing get caught in some machinery and ended up getting eaten by it.

Maternal grandfather was a fabricator/machinist and was missing about 3.5 fingers because of a mishap with a band saw...

Probably less likely on the mill, but with the right tooling and the right circumstances...

 

[no704]

My mentor got his hand wrapped up in a spindle once. I remember him telling stories of his treatment. Had to apply leaches like twice a week.

 

[no704]

After the vfd and getting it running. I’d get a dro on that thing. Amazon has ToAuto ones for I believe around $200. I have 2 on Bridgeports and happy ! You have to make sure the scales are a proper length, not too hard to cut down if you’re cool cutting glass but very hard to make longer!

 

[DocsMachine]

Rule Number One: Keep your hands away from the spinny bits!

That's just as important as "keep your booger-hook off the bang switch" for the gun guys.

Yes, lots of people have had injuries caused by mills, lathes, drill presses and bandsaws. The thing you have to remember though, is that chuck- or whatever- can't reach out and grab you- you have to reach in and grab IT.

Every story I ever hear is like Firstrams- the guy tries to swipe away built up swarf, or they reach in to grab that bird's nest, or they try to feel how smooth the surface is while it's still running, or they grab the chuck to try and stop it faster because they're in a hurry.

On a milling machine, if your hands are on the crank handles, they're miles away from the cutter- the cutter can't reach out and grab you, you have to reach in and grab IT.

Don't reach in and grab the goddam cutter and you've eliminated 90% of the danger.

Doc.

 

[dutchgray]

After the vfd and getting it running. I’d get a dro on that thing. Amazon has ToAuto ones for I believe around $200. I have 2 on Bridgeports and happy ! You have to make sure the scales are a proper length, not too hard to cut down if you’re cool cutting glass but very hard to make longer!

M DRO in the UK sell a good cheap import DRO with good features, they post to the USA as Josh Topper uses them on many of his machines and likes them.

I put a Newall on my Bridgeport but probably wouldn't next time because of the increasing cost difference and the import ones just keep getting better.

 

[dutchgray]

Yes, when I was doing basic research on end mills, I saw the difference. I have several four-flute end mills on the way. I need some two flute.

Thanks

In the UK we call 2 flute end mills "slot drills" which gives you a clue to what work they excel at.

I would get centre cutting ones.

 

[bulletpruf]

After the vfd and getting it running. I’d get a dro on that thing. Amazon has ToAuto ones for I believe around $200. I have 2 on Bridgeports and happy ! You have to make sure the scales are a proper length, not too hard to cut down if you’re cool cutting glass but very hard to make longer!

That looks affordable, but I'm inclined to run it for a while without a DRO.

 

[SilverJimmy]

Good idea, learn to crawl before trying to run!

 

[slowtwitch73]

You haven't lived till you've had a DRO.

Get a center finder (or two) as well if not mentioned already. I'd get an extra 1/2" R8 collet dedicated to it... better than swapping back and forth and they are fiddly to get in and out.

 

[bulletpruf]

You haven't lived till you've had a DRO.

Get a center finder (or two) as well if not mentioned already.

I bought a few already.

I'd get an extra 1/2" R8 collet dedicated to it... better than swapping back and forth and they are fiddly to get in and out.

Done.

Thanks!

 

[txvwnut]

Learn to use the dials before you get a DRO. I’ve got DRO’s on my mill and lathe and rarely turn them on as I work off of the dials more. I do use them for bolt hole patterns or repeated operations where I can preset a zero and work to it on the DRO.

 

[Hauser day goofball]

How do you got a dro for a bridgeport?

 

[Riverrat]

Rule Number One: Keep your hands away from the spinny bits!

That's just as important as "keep your booger-hook off the bang switch" for the gun guys.

Yes, lots of people have had injuries caused by mills, lathes, drill presses and bandsaws. The thing you have to remember though, is that chuck- or whatever- can't reach out and grab you- you have to reach in and grab IT.

Every story I ever hear is like Firstrams- the guy tries to swipe away built up swarf, or they reach in to grab that bird's nest, or they try to feel how smooth the surface is while it's still running, or they grab the chuck to try and stop it faster because they're in a hurry.

On a milling machine, if your hands are on the crank handles, they're miles away from the cutter- the cutter can't reach out and grab you, you have to reach in and grab IT.

Don't reach in and grab the goddam cutter and you've eliminated 90% of the danger.

Doc.

Make sure you have your fly done up!!!!!!!!

 

[Riverrat]

If you have a functioning milling machine you don't need a drill press in my opinion. The work you will be drilling will be much more secure and will have better accuracy in the mill. Invest in a good Jacobs ball bearing chuck or a good quality keyless chuck instead. My drill press has not been used in 20 years.

 

[Riverrat]

Here are some websites with people I respect that you can learn from. No affiliation

https://www.youtube.com/@joepie221/videos

mrpete222

My channel is devoted to the wonderful world of MACHINE SHOP! I have about 950 video demonstrations on the Bridgeport mill & South Bend, Atlas, Clausing, and Logan Lathes. There is also groups of videos on the subjects of FOUNDRY, MODEL ENGINES, TRACTORS, ANTIQUE ENGINES & much more. 52...

www.youtube.com

https://www.youtube.com/user/Figbash3/videos Tom's Techniques Great stuff with no BS.

I am sure others have their favorites.

 

[alfadan]

I forgot about Tom's Techniques. I wish he still made videos.

Mrpete's older videos were good, but I don't think he makes anything anymore.

 

[no704]

I like This Old Tony.

 

[Riverrat]

I forgot about Tom's Techniques. I wish he still made videos.

Mrpete's older videos were good, but I don't think he makes anything anymore.

Tom's son died which would have taken the wind out of anybody's sails. The quality of his stuff is solid and hard to beat!! His demonstrations on grinding drill bits, lathe bits, and fly cutter bits are the best. He also has downloads on the angles and how to sharpen them. He is definitely the real deal!

 

[Firstram]

Learn to use the dials before you get a DRO. I’ve got DRO’s on my mill and lathe and rarely turn them on as I work off of the dials more. I do use them for bolt hole patterns or repeated operations where I can preset a zero and work to it on the DRO.

I don’t have a DRO on my mill so, I’m used to counting while cranking. On the rare occasion I use a mill with one, I only look at it when I’m within 10 thou or so. It sure is nice when dealing with backlash or centering on something though!

 

[alfadan]

Mine came with one, an Acurrite Millrite. Only the x axis worked. I tore everything down for rebuild and am going to run it with just dials for a while.

I figure that my lathe only has dials, so for the hackery I do on the mill, I shouldn't be missing much, except the whole spending $400 thing.

 

[Steve from Socal]

If you have a functioning milling machine you don't need a drill press in my opinion. The work you will be drilling will be much more secure and will have better accuracy in the mill. Invest in a good Jacobs ball bearing chuck or a good quality keyless chuck instead. My drill press has not been used in 20 years.

You may be a gifted tool maker BUT, that is really bad advice. A drilling machine is not only a core tool but, offers far more options and envelope for drilling than a turret mill. Then there is the possibility of damage to the table of the mill due to a miss step. If you only have a tiny space to work perhaps a turret mill could be an only option, in every other case a drill press is more flexible. The price of admission is low and the utility is high.

 

[SilverJimmy]

My mentor, who sadly passed July 1st this year, had a FADAL CNC mill and a Hitachi Seiki CNC lathe in his home shop. I bought his Ex-Cell-O 602 mill from him last year. None of his machines had any of, what he called “apprentice” marks. He also had a drill press right next to his FADAL, a Walker-Turner he picked up while he was a Costa Mesa Fireman in the early 70’s. It had been in a shop fire and was being scrapped because of fire damage. He told me he got a motor to replace the melted one, went thru all the bearings, and then had it in his shop ever since. It does have a couple small marks on the table that he said were too deep to remove when he resurfaced the table. I now have it too and l will treasure it like everything else I have from Brian.

A drill press is like any other tool, don’t we need them all?!

 

[Riverrat]

You might find this video Joe Pie made on the controls of a Bridgeport beneficial. Notice what he uses to stand on (1x2's) when he operates the machine. He talks about lining up the collet in the spindle and what the slot in the collet is for.

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