Bought Bridgeport Clone - Now Getting it Set Up for Basic Machining

[bulletpruf]

I'm in need of a drill press for my shop (hobby stuff with cars/trucks/heavy equipment) but I'm planning on buying a mill instead. I realize a drill press will be quicker, but I won't be drilling a ton of holes, so time isn't a huge concern. Strong preference for single phase 110/220.

I'm a bit constrained on size and budget and I'd prefer something that's ready to go with no issues, so I'm not trying to find a Bridgeport that needs some work.

Here's what I'm seeing that's within a reasonable drive from San Antonio -

WT, 9.5 x 23.5 table, 2 hp, 110/220, $1,200.





Unknown make/model, 110v, Align power feed. $2k. It's here in San Antonio.




Enco Knee Mill 100-5200, not sure if it's single phase, not sure on table size, don't know if it comes with tooling, $1,500.



Central Machinery T-2119, Taiwan made, $1,000.



Grizzly G1007 with electric feed, $1,500, made in Taiwan, 2 hp, single phase 110/220, 9.5" x 32".




Any thoughts on what's the best machine and/or best deal? I realize that included tooling is a huge deal, but most of the ads don't mention it.

thanks,

Scott

 

[MikeMalibu]

I’d recommend a knee mill if you have the space. I have that Enco mill. Mine looks to be less used and came with 3 & 4 jaw chucks, two types of steady rests, and some tooling for $1200 about 15 years ago.

Mine is single phase at 220 or 110 vac. I run it at 220 vac.

 

[Jswain]

Enco knee mill by a landslide, even if it comes with 0 tooling and the rest are tooled up.

To be fair any of them will work great as a drill press. But the round column mills if you are milling and have to raise the head up the z axis, you need to retram the mill.

 

[loganb]

That Enco is by far the beefiest of them. Condition matters too, but all else equal its the winner

 

[tyyost]

Enco first and Grizzly second. Table size matters even if you are looking for a drill tress with extended capabilities.

 

[86turbodsl]

Let's be clear, those are all mill/drills, not mills. Very light duty for side loading on the quill. For the money I'd be looking at actual mills.

 

[bulletpruf]

Let's be clear, those are all mill/drills, not mills. Very light duty for side loading on the quill. For the money I'd be looking at actual mills.

Even the Enco?

 

[whateg01]

... But the round column mills if you are milling and have to raise the head up the z axis, you need to retram the mill.

Not true, but you do need to reindicate the part.

 

[86turbodsl]

Even the Enco?

Maybe borderline. What taper on the spindle?

 

[whateg01]

Let's be clear, those are all mill/drills, not mills. Very light duty for side loading on the quill. For the money I'd be looking at actual mills.

True that they are Mill/drills except for the knee mill. They can take a cut though. They aren't using a Morse to Jacobs shank and holding the EM in a drill chuck.

 

[86turbodsl]

I didn't notice the knee crank on the enco at first. That looks like it may be an actual mill. I'd like to see a full shot but probably ok

 

[theoldwizard1]

Drill-mills have too much deflection.

 

[Jswain]

Not true, but you do need to reindicate the part.

Ok sorry, re align the head. Versus basically any other type of mill unlock axis, raise, lock & mill

If the round column was $500 and the knee mill was $2500 then maybe, but at basically the same price it's a no brainer.

 

[cannuck]

Yeah, go for the econo. In all machine tools you need to worship mass - as stiffness is one of the key values determining how capable and accurate a machine is going to be.

 

[bulletpruf]

Worshipping mass and stiffness? Reminds me of a girl I used to date...

 

[86turbodsl]

He's right. It makes all the difference in the quality of your cut and cutter life

 

[slowtwitch73]

Enco out of those, but for 1500 I'd keep looking.

 

[PopcornSutton]

Get the knee mill. Round columns are a pain.

 

[alfadan]

Worshipping mass and stiffness? Reminds me of a girl I used to date...

On the flipside, unlike with a girl, mass is good!

 

[whateg01]

On the flipside, unlike with a girl, mass is good!

Nothing wrong with a little meat on the bones

 

[kmacht]

Don’t get anything with a round column as it makes setups and adjustment a pain. They are also prone to slipping under side load. I would also recommend getting something with an R8 taper as you will find more used tooling for less money than a mill with a Morse taper. Finally, don’t discount a Bridgeport. At least here in the northeast you can get a j head Bridgeport in decent shape for under $1500 if you shop around. They really do not take up much more floor space than the mills in your pictures and are much much more capable if you plan to mill steel and not just soft metals.

 

[whateg01]

Don’t get anything with a round column as it makes setups and adjustment a pain. They are also prone to slipping under side load. I would also recommend getting something with an R8 taper as you will find more used tooling for less money than a mill with a Morse taper. Finally, don’t discount a Bridgeport. At least here in the northeast you can get a j head Bridgeport in decent shape for under $1500 if you shop around. They really do not take up much more floor space than the mills in your pictures and are much much more capable if you plan to mill steel and not just soft metals.

Value of a Bridgeport is so regional. Here in the air capital of the world, a clapped out machine will want a couple grand.

Also a Bridgeport most certainly does take up more floor space than a typical mill drill. My clone has a 42" table. Subtract the right 12" in the middle and that's still 30" on either side plus handwheels and power feed. The ram alone is as long as those whole machines are deep. It's easy to measure the base and think, oh that'll fit and then get home and find that it doesn't.

 

[bulletpruf]

Don’t get anything with a round column as it makes setups and adjustment a pain. They are also prone to slipping under side load. I would also recommend getting something with an R8 taper as you will find more used tooling for less money than a mill with a Morse taper. Finally, don’t discount a Bridgeport. At least here in the northeast you can get a j head Bridgeport in decent shape for under $1500 if you shop around. They really do not take up much more floor space than the mills in your pictures and are much much more capable if you plan to mill steel and not just soft metals.

Bare minimum around here for a Bridgeport seems to be about $3,000 for an operational vertical mill but most are in the $5,000 price range.

There's also the weight, increased footprint, and the possibility of dealing with 3 phase, and I really don't want to go down that road.

thanks

 

[slowtwitch73]

In that case, the Enco may be a good mill for you....

 

[tool_scrounge]

My choice for what you have shown:
Enco Knee Mill 100-5200, not sure if it's single phase, not sure on table size, don't know if it comes with tooling, $1,500

price is about right. I sold mine 10+ years ago for $900.

if you want to more info, search for A1-S mill (The generic model number). Usually a 1.5hp motor And R8 collet size. Made in Taiwan. Needs 120v 20A single phase circuit or change the wiring to 240V.

Good for up to a 1/2” end mill. Larger tends to chatter.

If you want a better used small mill, look for a Millrite Mill (picture below) . 2/3 scale version of a Bridgeport with three different table widths. Built like a tank and very stiff (higher stiffness = less chatter).

 

[bulletpruf]

My choice for what you have shown:
Enco Knee Mill 100-5200, not sure if it's single phase, not sure on table size, don't know if it comes with tooling, $1,500

price is about right. I sold mine 10+ years ago for $900.

if you want to more info, search for A1-S mill (The generic model number). Usually a 1.5hp motor And R8 collet size. Made in Taiwan. Needs 120v 20A single phase circuit or change the wiring to 240V.

Good for up to a 1/2” end mill. Larger tends to chatter.

If you want a better used small mill, look for a Millrite Mill (picture below) . 2/3 scale version of a Bridgeport with three different table widths. Built like a tank and very stiff (higher stiffness = less chatter).

Thanks for the details. I don’t think it comes with tooling. Seller is going to check on power but he thinks it’s single phase. Sounds like the machine is at the shop where he works.

 

[Boogerman]

Sold my older knee mill, tried to downsize to round column to save space. Lack of knee real handicap. Biggest handicap is lack of power feed, and a challenge to fit available power units to it.

Ended up just buying a bridgeport and giving up on the space saving. My bridgeport has cnc on 3 axis, with pretty good 2 axis capability. Kept the round column one for drill press use.

Sometimes it's real nice to be at the top of the line, not the bottom.

Your choices, I'd go with the knee mill, upgrade as you can to power cross feed. If it's not single phase, use a VFD/Inverter controller. Make sure the collets are something readily available. My old one took real hard to find odd collets, and that was a handicap.

 

[Sumboodie]

Had a Grizzly similar to that Enco.

It was ok, but limited in function vs a standard Bridgeport.

No brake, only 1 angle on the head so limited to maybe 8" cut in the Y vs a Bridgeport usually can angle for cuts in the X so can do several feet.

Also small spindle and belt drive like a drill press. Seemed to always have chatter.
Some Bridgeport are belt drive too though.

Always felt like it was sort of a mill, but not quite.

A real Bridgeport or "clone" is what I'd pick. They are often in the 2-4k area. Even if it's 3 phase, a China vfd converter is $300-500

 

[GeoBruin]

My choice for what you have shown:
Enco Knee Mill 100-5200, not sure if it's single phase, not sure on table size, don't know if it comes with tooling, $1,500

price is about right. I sold mine 10+ years ago for $900.

if you want to more info, search for A1-S mill (The generic model number). Usually a 1.5hp motor And R8 collet size. Made in Taiwan. Needs 120v 20A single phase circuit or change the wiring to 240V.

Good for up to a 1/2” end mill. Larger tends to chatter.

If you want a better used small mill, look for a Millrite Mill (picture below) . 2/3 scale version of a Bridgeport with three different table widths. Built like a tank and very stiff (higher stiffness = less chatter).

Careful. The Millrite came with either a rapid down feed, or a fine down feed. Not like a BP where you have both. The rapid down feed makes a decent drilling machine, but the fine feed would not be at all suitable for much drilling. The one you pictured has the fine feed.

Source: I've owned 3 Millrites.

 

[slowtwitch73]

^^ they are rare as hens teeth, or I would recommend a Millrite also.

I have the fine feed.. certainly wouldn't let it keep me from buying one.

 

[RoninB4]

Rather than favor one brand/type over another I think a buyer should consider just what the intended purpose and capability of the mill should be. For just drilling the occasional simple hole then most of the machines depicted are adequate. However, not all holes could be considered "simple". Some holes need to be reamed for a target size, RPM range needs to be considered.

Does the hole need to sometimes have locational importance? Will the hole require boring to size? How large are the holes themselves? The mill/drill machines are terrible at milling. Round column mills aren't very good either but it really depends upon what you expect from it.

Milling is a different animal than just drilling. Many good mills don't have a quill and that makes drilling even a simple hole more complicated than it should. By the same token, drills make terrible milling machines that can be dangerous when the taper shank becomes unattached to the spindle. So how much milling do you intend to do and what type of milling? How accurate does it need to be? Is the mill for job shop type work (time is money) or is it for more casual one-off work?

Why are these questions important? Because mass translates to heavier cuts in less time and likely improved surface finishes with greater predictability of accuracy. I'm not a fan of machines from Chi-Wan because of poor build quality, short lived electric motors, exploding plastic gears, and difficulty sourcing replacement parts. That doesn't mean they're worthless either, they're just not something I shop for any more (have 3 I don't use any more). Even new, most Chi-Wan mills I've seen are poorly constructed.

Older machines may exhibit wear but if they hold the tolerances you expect then I'd consider them a better buy than some import with porous, fragile castings with bearings in need of replacement in 5 years. Need 3P power? There's plenty of info out there about generating 3P from 1P. I've roughly 40+ years of machine shop experience and I'm not saying you need top shelf equipment. I'm saying I could give you a better opinion if you could better define your purposes. Also, are you willing to travel 100 miles to get a better machine tool market? Seems like Houston and Dallas ought to have a better market than San Antonio.

 

[tool_scrounge]

Thanks for the details. I don’t think it comes with tooling. Seller is going to check on power but he thinks it’s single phase. Sounds like the machine is at the shop where he works.

Interesting mills. I am not sure I have seen two exactly alike. Different resellers offered different variations, such as Bijur copy lubrication pumps, metric vs. English leadscrews and dials, etc.in general, Taiwanese electric motors are hard starting. On a 120v 15a circuit, these motor will trip the breaker on startup occasionally.

 

[tool_scrounge]

^^ they are rare as hens teeth, or I would recommend a Millrite also.

I have the fine feed.. certainly wouldn't let it keep me from buying one.

Not super rare in Southern California. But not as common as they used to be. Geobruin bought one $800 one I posted in the Craigslist deal section.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum...slist-list-here.157363/page-194#post-10128776

 

[isb cornbinder]

I'm in need of a drill press for my shop (hobby stuff with cars/trucks/heavy equipment) but I'm planning on buying a mill instead. I realize a drill press will be quicker, but I won't be drilling a ton of holes, so time isn't a huge concern. Strong preference for single phase 110/220.

I'm a bit constrained on size and budget and I'd prefer something that's ready to go with no issues, so I'm not trying to find a Bridgeport that needs some work.

Here's what I'm seeing that's within a reasonable drive from San Antonio -

WT, 9.5 x 23.5 table, 2 hp, 110/220, $1,200.





Unknown make/model, 110v, Align power feed. $2k. It's here in San Antonio.




Enco Knee Mill 100-5200, not sure if it's single phase, not sure on table size, don't know if it comes with tooling, $1,500.



Central Machinery T-2119, Taiwan made, $1,000.



Grizzly G1007 with electric feed, $1,500, made in Taiwan, 2 hp, single phase 110/220, 9.5" x 32".




Any thoughts on what's the best machine and/or best deal? I realize that included tooling is a huge deal, but most of the ads don't mention it.

thanks,

Everything pictured is little better than a mediocre drill press. At a minimum, if this is the type of mill you want, you should look for a mill that has a dove-tail column. You will need the better column for stability. If you can find a knee-mill get it. Bridgeport comes to mind.

 

[liliysdad]

Id buy a drill press before a round column mill/drill, but that Enco looks solid.

I had a Clausing 8530, and it was a fantastic machine...it just wasn't big enough to justify its footprint.

 

[86turbodsl]

Maybe also expand your search to include off-brand quality stuff too. For instance, Wells-Index. Built as good or better than a bridgeport, and cheaper usually because people don't know them. There were a ton of them out there too, they got sold to the Army/Navy.

 

[tool_scrounge]

Maybe also expand your search to include off-brand quality stuff too. For instance, Wells-Index. Built as good or better than a bridgeport, and cheaper usually because people don't know them. There were a ton of them out there too, they got sold to the Army/Navy.

Wells Index (aka Index in the earlier years) makes great mills. My friend has an Index model 40H which is a dead simple small vertical mill that works great. He loves it. Not that common though.

 

[86turbodsl]

Nice mill. You're far more likely to see the more common ones from military service, the 747,847, etc. Solid stuff. Made right here in Jackson, MI. They are literally everywhere around here.

 

[mattthemuppet]

I'd go with the Enco out of all of those. I had the Grizzly equivalent for 6 years and really liked it. Work envelope is pretty small, especially once you add up the vise, work, chuck and cutter, but it's rigid enough to do some decent work in steel within that envelope. Not sure if I would buy one if I really needed a drill press though as it's work envelope is similar to a cheap benchtop drill press. Buy a nice floor standing drill press first, then see if you need a mill.

 

[no704]

Not real sure, but I really don’t like that enco being right next to a grinder!