Buying a new Sub Compact Utility Tractor

[FTG-05]

I have the Kubota L4330 40 hp tractor for my 40 acres. There is no way I'd want something smaller than that.

Big loads require big tractors:



Another important feature, more important than the color: Quick detachable FEL; i.e. NOT pinned.

Another: Quick Hitch for your 3ph. Make sure to buy the QH first, then buy implements to fit it.

Good luck!

 

[pblanton]

ALWAYS get a bigger tractor than you think you will need.

And "amen" what FTG-05 just said

I have a 2015 Branson 3520H. Branson was Kukje, which is now TYM because TYM acquired Kukje a couple years ago.

I love my Branson. It is a hairy-chested tractor that has served me well. We are planning a move to Tennessee in a couple of years and I will sell the Branson here in Colorado and buy a new TYM when I get to Tennessee. I'm getting a 60-75 HP tractor with a cab this time. Haven't nailed down a TYM model yet, but if I was to buy one today, it'd be the T654 or T754.

 

[JeepYJ]

My NH also has the drive on mower setup.

It does but AFAIK it does not have the Auto Connect feature the Deere has for the PTO shaft.
Here’s the NH video on mid mower deck installation, a few more steps than JD and it requires some wood blocks.

 

[Michigan Mike]

Thanks for all the info. I fully understand the belly mower being in the way working at the hunting property. That is why it will stay at the house. The ease or PIA of putting it on and off is something I will check into when I go and physically try out the tractors. It is something I may just have to live with considering my situation. Thanks again everybody for all your input. Hopefully tomorrow (friday) I will get to actually operate these little tractors. We will see what I come up with then.

 

[Shovelhead]

I'm here to tell you(and living proof) that a sub compact will piss you off in the woods.
MAIN reason - no ground clearance.
I have two JD's.
2014 1025R
2009 3520
I have 9 acres, 100' pines and mixed hardwoods, about 2 1/2 acres cleared for house and shop. 600' of rock road.
I worked the dogshit out that little 25hp and it really did surprise me what it did. But, you definitely have to remove the drive on/off belly mower to do anything off of mostly flat ground.

One of the main reasons I bought the bigger 37hp tractor. Ground clearance and grapple work. I love both tractors, but they both have their limitations.
The subcompact has suffered some injuries, a couple due to the limited ground clearance. Ripped a front hydraulic steering hose out the fitting, and somehow a stick got wadded up under the front end and forced an pin out of the front driveshaft.
I've also had to replace one front axle seal and that was me lifting more than I should when I was moving all my shop stuff from one place to another.

Something comparable to a 3 series JD is what I'd recommend. or like that 3400 Kubota the fella showed. And buy a mower , to mow.

Unlike wimmen..............It's like motorcycles, or boats. A man needs two of each!!

 

[nmk_61802]

I am on my second BX. One thing about Deer and Kubota, is that they are the top selling brands. If they don't make something, someone else probably does for them. Kioti & Mahindra have a bigger follows as well, so they have aftermarket accessories available too, just not as many.

Massey, Cub, Bobcat, NH, etc not so much

 

[ericm]

This is interesting as generally the single rocker pedal setup on Kubota is much preferred over dual pedals buy most people that have used both. Its actually a significant reason people choose Kubota all things else being equal.

I've owned both and prefer dual pedals. Its not a deal breaker though. Both designs work. The advantage of the rocker is that it's hard to have your foot on one pedal and think its on the other. The downside is that using your heel to operate in reverse can be uncomfortable.

But what's important is not what people on the internet say, it's what works for you.

I think a sub compact is not nearly as useful as a full compact but the stuff I do is likely different than the OP.

 

[WildBill]

It does but AFAIK it does not have the Auto Connect feature the Deere has for the PTO shaft.
Here’s the NH video on mid mower deck installation, a few more steps than JD and it requires some wood blocks.

That's not the 25s.

 

[JeepYJ]

That's not the 25s.

You didn’t specify which model you had. Does NH offer a drive over deck with auto connect PTO shaft?

 

[NUTTSGT]

This is what I was referring to and I was happy to pay a premium to have the autoconnect deck on my 1025r. I hated connecting the PTO shaft on my old mower. Taking the loader on/off is really easy as well if you get the right one. If you see yourself having to take the mower/loader on and off quite often you may be able to justify the green paint premium.

I will say this about the drive on/over deck. It's nice but don't do it on a smooth concrete surface like a garage floor. I suggest the gravel driveway or in the yard.

I had mine slide while driving on it and the deck kicked ****-eyed. I had to use the floor jack to straighten it out.

Thinking it was a one time fluke, it happened again. Never again, driveway or in the yard.

Beyond that, I realize you will be leaving it at home, but I would consider it foolish to take it back in the woods or "off-road".

 

[Michigan Mike]

There is almost no chance that I would take the mower out to the woods. Having the brush hog, there would be no need to have the mower in the woods.

 

[Michigan Mike]

Looks I put some extra emphasis on my reply up above. I plead ignorance I must have hit the wrong icon I apologize.

 

[finn]

I am on my second BX. One thing about Deer and Kubota, is that they are the top selling brands. If they don't make something, someone else probably does for them. Kioti & Mahindra have a bigger follows as well, so they have aftermarket accessories available too, just not as many.

Massey, Cub, Bobcat, NH, etc not so much

Bobcat is Kioti. Just in a different color.

 

[LopezBart]

I'm here to tell you(and living proof) that a sub compact will piss you off in the woods.

Well, except when the trees are so close together than only a skinny tractor will fit. I started with a tiny Kubota 4wd B5100, which has dragged trees I felled for our new shop site, cleared snow from the driveway and was badly overworked mowing 5 acres on my folks place. My brother and I picked up a much bigger John Deere 110 TLB, which weighs something like 7x the Kubota. But it's 6 feet wide, so I need to drop some more trees so I can make it up to our place. It will take over mowing, and will dig more ditches for water control.

Here's a pic of our little Kubota in the woods prepping the drain run for the shop site. They used one of those small excavators to dig the ditch for the drain; I'd dropped some trees to help:



And here's the new to us John Deere:

 

[JeepYJ]

Bobcat is Kioti. Just in a different color.

That was true of the older Bobcat tractors. The latest Bobcat tractors are from Doosan, Bobcats parent company, and Daedong, Kiotis parent company. They are different now.

 

[readhead]

Bobcat is still built by Daedong. There has been talk that Doosan will take over in the future but no timeline has been said. I’m still fairly well connected to my Deere sources because I still get asked to find used machines.

 

[ATC]

Well, except when the trees are so close together than only a skinny tractor will fit. I started with a tiny Kubota 4wd B5100, which has dragged trees I felled for our new shop site, cleared snow from the driveway and was badly overworked mowing 5 acres on my folks place. My brother and I picked up a much bigger John Deere 110 TLB, which weighs something like 7x the Kubota. But it's 6 feet wide, so I need to drop some more trees so I can make it up to our place. It will take over mowing, and will dig more ditches for water control.

Here's a pic of our little Kubota in the woods prepping the drain run for the shop site. They used one of those small excavators to dig the ditch for the drain; I'd dropped some trees to help:



And here's the new to us John Deere:

I’ve got my eye on a couple of the JD 110’s around me. They look like I could get some good use out of one (the hoe). I just wish the bucket end could match my skid steer as far as capability.

 

[Uncle murph]

Are you thinking that you will keep the tractor as long as you kept the ford?

Do you think you will have as much issues with parts with some of the other manufacture as you are having with the Fiat industrial/New holland/Case Ih conglomerate? Parts availability went to hell when Fiat took over on older stuff.

Kubota and John Deere are not perfect but they have been better in parts availability throughout the decades hence resale value.

Also sub compact tractors have a frame like a garden tractor. You are mowing along your trails and a stick gets shoved up in between the frame rails and destroys the driveshaft to the rear ends cooling fan or the drive shaft itself. Then you need skid plates to protect it but then grass/chaff/seed builds up in there.

Plus subcompacts small tires and narrow wheel base makes them plodders and limits tire turn making for wide turns.

They make 25 hp compact tractors that are unitized giving much better protection and wider stance and bigger tires giving better ride/handling/maneuverability/traction off the lawn which is where sub compacts were designed for.

This.Deere or Kubota,there’s a lot more to it than color and names,you’re getting a better machine with consistent parts and service support and fantastic resale value.Unless it’s a short term thing,spend the money.Buy once,cry once.IMO.

 

[bugnut]

Okay, I get it on the drive over deck. I'll have to go see one at the local JD dealer. I still suspect for a once or twice a year install/remove you will at least be on your knees. MEA CULPA

@Michigan Mike best of luck and ignore those of us in the cheap seats!

 

[Michigan Mike]

I'm not ignoring any one. It is all good info. I have to apply it to my situation. I started this thread to get information and opinions and I am pleased with the response.

 

[JeepYJ]

As seen from most of the responses, there’s much more to it than just a premium “tax” for paint color. There’s a reason some are priced at the low end of the spectrum, because they’re lacking refinement and quality design and engineering. Can they still get stuff done? Yes. Are there better options that make life easier? Yes to that too. Just in the mid mount mowers you’ve seen a variety of designs and PITA factors that come with a basic no frills machine in this thread.

Another thing mentioned a couple times in here is FEL attachment design. Deere has their own JDQA (Quick Attach) that is very simple and lightweight and plenty strong for compact tractors. SSQA (skid steer quick attach) is the other common attachment design. It’s heavier and more complicated. The fan club of the SSQA always mentions the wider availability of attachments using SSQA over the JDQA. From my experience I haven’t found any “cheap” FEL attachments either in JDQA or SSQA. If you’re handy you can weld either attachment mounts to just about any attachment. Either way, you’ll want a way to quickly change out your FEL attachment or just take it off to reduce tractor size. Having a FEL that is easily removed from the tractor may be a selling point to you too.

 

[readhead]

I would agree about quick attach. I have yet to see an attachment manufacturer that doesn’t offer JDQA. Having owned both I like the JDQA for it’s simplicity and light weight that doesn’t rob lift capacity. SSQA is obviously more popular but there are moving parts that have to be maintained and I have experienced bent and damaged components and have had attachments come off unexpectedly. SSQA is heavier and takes away lift capacity, which on a SCUT could be a major factor. It might not be a deal breaker but something to consider. There are JDQA to SSQA adapters available.

 

[LopezBart]

I’ve got my eye on a couple of the JD 110’s around me. They look like I could get some good use out of one (the hoe). I just wish the bucket end could match my skid steer as far as capability.

The JD 110 TLB has a standard skid steer attachment for the loader and ours has a remote switch on the joystick that controls the clamshell bucket. It came w/ a set of SS forks...

Your skid steer attachments will fit on the 110 if they're standard.

 

[readhead]

The JD 110 TLB is one of the great mysteries of all time. One of the best machines they ever made but there has never been a good explanation of why they discontinued it. I heard low demand, low sales ( same thing), difficult production ( it was based on an ag tractor but produced by construction), and any number of other reasons. At the time it was in a very small and new segment of equipment. Deere gave up and Kubota kept improving. Kubota now owns that segment of compact construction equipment.

 

[Michigan Mike]

Just back from a short trip. I forgot who mentioned LS tractors but I found a dealer about a Half hour from me. He didn't have any of the subcompacts in stock. I spent some time talking to him about them. Without having one to look at I can't pass judgement on them but the price is very attractive compared to the other scuts. Supposedly LS manufactures the NH scuts. If so how close are they to being the same? I am probably just muddying the waters here but would appreciate any info availible that you guys have. The dealer said he could have one for me to look at within two weeks not sure if I can wait that long.

 

[readhead]

In the past LS was plagued with electrical problems. Since you are buying new that may not be an issue now. Their lift and flow specs are average. Check to make sure that it comes with SSQA. In the past they only had pinned on buckets.

 

[Michigan Mike]

Thanks readhead. I definatly want an easily removable bucket

 

[kj_mustang]

Owned a LS XR41XX with FEL, I think its a 4140, for almost 5 years. Great machine, zero issues.

 

[JeepYJ]

Supposedly LS manufactures the NH scuts. If so how close are they to being the same?

They’re close to the same. Best to check out their websites and directly compare models you’re interested in to see what the differences may be.
If you’re serious about looking at off brand tractors you should give Rural King Tractors a look. Pricing is very good for what you’re getting. They are built by TYM. There are a couple RK Tractor stores in MI and N Indiana.

RK Tractors | More Tractor Less Price TM

All Rural King Tractors including Sub-Compact, Compact, and Utility RK Tractors feature 4WD and come fully-loaded. Better Tractor Warranties & More...

www.rktractors.com

 

[ATC]

The JD 110 TLB has a standard skid steer attachment for the loader and ours has a remote switch on the joystick that controls the clamshell bucket. It came w/ a set of SS forks...

Your skid steer attachments will fit on the 110 if they're standard.

Correct. I was more-so talking about lift capacity. Visibility for fine work and such. I need to trade off my grapple bucket for a lighter one. It weighs 985# alone.

 

[ATC]

Another thing mentioned a couple times in here is FEL attachment design. Deere has their own JDQA (Quick Attach) that is very simple and lightweight and plenty strong for compact tractors. SSQA (skid steer quick attach) is the other common attachment design. It’s heavier and more complicated. The fan club of the SSQA always mentions the wider availability of attachments using SSQA over the JDQA. From my experience I haven’t found any “cheap” FEL attachments either in JDQA or SSQA. If you’re handy you can weld either attachment mounts to just about any attachment. Either way, you’ll want a way to quickly change out your FEL attachment or just take it off to reduce tractor size. Having a FEL that is easily removed from the tractor may be a selling point to you too.

If you are only going to be using a couple attachments that you get from the dealer at the time of purchase, then the JDQA is fine. If you want to add a bunch of attachments, borrow someone else's, sell/trade in the future...then the SSQA might be the better choice. Yes, they are both expensive, but there are 100:1 SS attachments for every JD attachment from what I see on the used market

 

[finn]

I have NEVER seen any JD proprietary attachments for sale without being a package deal including the (used) tractor.

Skid steer attachments abound on the secondary market.

 

[JeepYJ]

A 25HP SCUT like the OP is looking at purchasing will have a hard time handling most SSQA attachments unless they’re SCUT-sized.
I haven’t seen many FEL attachments of any kind on the used market that are much less than new cost. OP would probably get best deal bundling attachments in with new tractor purchase.

 

[Michigan Mike]

Went out and rode around the dealers parking lots. The Massey Ferguson felt good. Using the controls felt pretty comfortable layout of the controls seemed alright. Went from there to the New Holland dealer. The seating felt a little cramped and the controls to me were not as well laid out. I am sure that is a personal preference issue. I am going to see if I can test ride the Kubota tomorrow. The dealership is only open till noon so I may not make it.

 

[Michigan Mike]

As far as new implements. Other than the loader and mower. The only other new one is the box blade. I already have a brush hog and a small disc. I probably wont get the box blade until spring as I won't have a need for it before then. Asked about skid plates at both dealerships. Kind of got a blank look, Niether one of the salesmen seemed to have ever heard of them.

 

[BruceMc]

It’s not natural to lift your heel and then push down. The two pedals are like using the accelerator and brake pedals on a car.
Their e-hydro or whatever they call it has a different pedal layout that is much more user friendly.

It's a funny debate that comes up every time SCUTS are the topic. I have 800+ hours on my BX25, and the treadle seems like the most natural thing in the world to me. No hunting around for a 2nd pedal - just pivot my toes over or under. Don't even have to lift my heel. Also, when I'm really twisted around in the seat, the heel control is exactly where it should be. Different strokes, I suppose. As far as the underside of the pedal icing up - at least half of those hours are moving snow and I can't recall that ever being a problem. If anything, just the opposite since in reverse you're lifting with the top, not with the sole of your shoe/boot.

 

[bbxlr8]

Just saw this and I'll chime in:

• I have 30y on a Ford 1210 with 60"mmm, a few PTO & pulling attachments that has escalated the frequency of repairs - IMO GREAT frame and engine that overachieves, BUT the front axle and steering mech is the Achilles heel - It's killing me but I repaired it again for what seems like the millionth time this fall.
• Finally bought a ZT for finish mowing & Kubota 2501 TLB for real work 2.5 years ago. It's a decent size frame/weight but under the epa limit for controls/regen (simple workhorse vs fancy screens, seat etc.)
• My use 20 acres in the middle of 150 on a ridge with a few miles of trails, lots of firewood, & major land reshaping, plus I have glacial deposit boulders sized from softballs to Suburbans. I looked at them all and wanted to give NH the nod too. Mahindra was out, and Kioti was OK. Lots of people like the LS, love JD (been to the plant & museum) but spotty quality & the bespoke imp connections were the factors for me in the smaller lines.

My 2 cents - I would buy it again 10 times over and consider it the sweet spot. It's a big decision once you narrow down a size/price range, and hit those make-specific tractor forums. Getting out and riding them is a great move. BTW - I don't mind the Kubota treadle coming off the years of 1210 use

 

[Michigan Mike]

Good info bbxlr8 . I would really like to have the bigger tractor but my situation. I have to store it at the house and trailer it back and forth to the hunting property and wanting to get some use out of it at home (suburban lot) dictate the sub compact size. Nice to hear from another 1210 owner. Mine has been a good tractor just getting long in the tooth.

 

[bbxlr8]

If you lean toward orange, IMO coming off a 1210, the BX is not a step up from what you have. In that case, I would check out the B or LX in the less fancy trims if you are going for the all-in-one swiss army knife approach.

Good general info @ Messicks
Great Kubota info @ orangetractortalks

FWIW my L with just loader is approx 3,900 lbs

 

[Crazyjake8493]

Whichever route you go, skip the mowing deck and put that money toward a zero turn, or at least a decent riding mower. Zero turn would be fastest and most convenient, but either way I would not want to put extra hours and wear on an expensive tractor for something a cheaper piece of equipment would do better. I also couldn't imagine the extra work of removing and reinstalling implements just to mow the lawn.

I have a Kioti CS2220 (subcompact) and it's the perfect tractor here but we only have 3 acres. Anything over 5 acres I would've jumped up a size to a smaller compact tractor. For 40 acres I wouldn't even consider a subcompact. They're very capable and a lot of guys overlook them thinking they're just riding mowers, but they're not. But for 40 acres I think it would not be nearly enough.

If you do go with a subompact, plan to build a ballast box/barrel of some sort for rear ballast. Or keep a heavy implement handy.

Not sure why Kioti is out of the running but I'm sure you have reasons. My CS2220 has been great, and I know a few guys with the CK line and have had nothing but good experiences. The most important factor with tractors is a good dealer and warranty support. Find the dealer you like best and go with them (except John Deere).

Most importantly, whichever size tractor you go with...buy pallet forks! A good set, no clamp-on junk. You'll use them more than the bucket and you'll keep finding more and more uses for them.