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Clausing 5400 Lathe Restoration

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Cahark

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Looks like it’s back to work on the Clausing lathe. I’ve been using the machine for about a year now. It’s been more than pleasurable having a nice piece of equipment that runs pretty well, and does what I need. During my restoration process I decided to keep the bearings that were already installed in the spindle. I inspected them and gave them a good cleaning. I determined while they were not perfect, they did seem to be in relatively good condition. That was where I screwed up.

The bearings have run OK for the last year, I have been able to hold very close tolerances however, They definitely aren’t the most quiet things in the world. I’m also having problems with chatter more than I should. Seems like the only time I can get rid of chatter is to use the tailstock even on short light duty work close to the spindle. I have constantly made preload adjustments and I have finally given up on the old set of bearings.

As I removed them from the spindle I decided to inspect them one more time. Seems like I have overlooked a few key details and the bearings are not in as good a shape as I remembered when they were first removed.

So that brings us to today. I decided to use the same technique for removing the spindle as I did when I first disassembled the machine (milling machine stud set used as a puller). The spindle came out much easier this time. When i assembled the headstock originally i made sure to stone and file off any unfortunate events or high spots of years past. This helped greatly for disassembly.

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After the spindle was out I needed to remove the bearing races from the headstock. They are pressed in to the headstock casting, up against a shoulder. For this I used a slug of aluminum that was about the size of the bearing race. I then used the milling machine stud set as a puller in coordination with the slug. This pulled the race out very easily and straight.

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Here are all of the bearing numbers for anyone in the future. The races are the same, but there are two different bearings.

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I went ahead and ordered some bearings tonight. Timken replacements were $150 for everything. It looks like it will take about a week and a half for everything to get here. In the morning I’m going to call my bearing distributer to see if they have anything in stock. If they do, I will cancel the order on Amazon and pick them up in person so I can keep moving. Not the worst price in the world, but it was definitely money I didn’t want to spend. I hope this will solve my problem, Or at least quiet down the machine a little bit. I feel like that in itself would make me happy.

I’m planning on keeping you along for the rest of the ride but Moral of the story… Just replace the bearings when you have it apart. Haha. Lesson learned.




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matt_i

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I just caught up to where you are :) Great job bringing this one back to great function and form! I am wondering a couple things....did you ever try to pry lightly under the chuck and use an indicator to check movement? Also I was curious if you ever checked contact between the headstock and bedway underneath. Of course its sitting on 3 points but sometimes that's not enough and it needs better contact. To fix this my suggestion would be to blue one part and set the other with a light rub and then you'd have to scrape some, which is probably a subject suitable for an entire forum. Even without the scraper tool it would only take one little soft chip that got smashed in between the headstock and bedway to push it out of alignment or be a "soft" bolted joint that could lead to chatter.

I hope the spindle bearings fix the issue for you as of course that's an easier path :)
 

bodaver32

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Good work on your lathe. I am currently restoring a 5914 model. As you mentioned, it is so much nicer having a lathe when restoring a lathe. I am fortunate to have a second lathe and it has been handy to build replacement shafts and bushings, etc.

When you go to the bearing house, let them know what you are going to use the bearing for. There are different classes of precision bearings. A good bearing supplier will be able to help you.
 
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Cahark

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I just caught up to where you are :) Great job bringing this one back to great function and form! I am wondering a couple things....did you ever try to pry lightly under the chuck and use an indicator to check movement? Also I was curious if you ever checked contact between the headstock and bedway underneath. Of course its sitting on 3 points but sometimes that's not enough and it needs better contact. To fix this my suggestion would be to blue one part and set the other with a light rub and then you'd have to scrape some, which is probably a subject suitable for an entire forum. Even without the scraper tool it would only take one little soft chip that got smashed in between the headstock and bedway to push it out of alignment or be a "soft" bolted joint that could lead to chatter.

I hope the spindle bearings fix the issue for you as of course that's an easier path :)


You bring up some valid points here. As far as prying on the chuck, that probably would have been a good check. At the time, I put a bar in the chuck hanging out about 12” and gave it a good tug with an indicator in contact with the spindle. I don’t recall what the reading was at the time, however there was more movement than I expected.

In regards to checking the contact between the headstock in the bed. I made sure to lightly stone both surfaces best as I could. I did not blue-up and check the fit (that may have been worthwhile at the time) but I did put the headstock in its place without bolting it down and checked for any “rocking” with the assistance of my .0001 indicator. I also make sure to bolt and Loctite the headstock bolts once everything was cleaned and prepped. At this time I do not believe that is my problem but I have been wrong before. In the future I believe I will check the fit up with Prussian blue as you suggested.

Honestly, I believe I will be happy with the spindle bearing replacement regardless if it fixes my problem or not as long as it quiets down the headstock. I cannot explain how dissatisfied I was when I first assembled it and heard that growling noise. However, I do hope it fixed my issues.





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Cahark

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Good work on your lathe. I am currently restoring a 5914 model. As you mentioned, it is so much nicer having a lathe when restoring a lathe. I am fortunate to have a second lathe and it has been handy to build replacement shafts and bushings, etc.



When you go to the bearing house, let them know what you are going to use the bearing for. There are different classes of precision bearings. A good bearing supplier will be able to help you.



Thanks for the suggestion on looking up the bearing class. Funny you mention that. I called up Clausing The other day to inquire about the class of the bearings. The guy on the other end of the phone was very helpful but when I asked him about this he explained to me that at the point in time of manufacture and on our smaller machines, they pretty much used equal to or one step above automotive bearings ha ha. I was extremely surprised to hear this, but when I spoke to a friend of mine and fellow machinist about this we came to the conclusion that just a few years prior many lathes were still running plain bearings or Babbitt so anything were a step up! Haha.


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zmotorsports

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I don't know how I missed this thread last year but just read through it and got caught up.

You have done a great job bringing the old Clausing back to life and amazing restoration job.:thumbup:
 
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Cahark

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I got out to the lathe this morning and started tinkering a while. I don’t have the bearings in yet but I figured I could prepare for their arrival. As I started looking at the area underneath where the race was and I realized that there seems to be some crud underneath where the shoulder of the bearing race would sit. I was seeing dirt and also burrs. This leads me to believe that someone replaced the bearings at one point in time and did not properly prepare the area before installation. This could be adding to my problems. The bottom of the journal looked just fine.

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Unfortunately this seems to be the continuing track record for this machine


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Cahark

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Made some progress this afternoon. Started things off polishing up the spindle. It had some very fine scaring where the bronze bearing rides, and the take up thread needed to have a thread file ran though it. I first took my time measuring each diameter to ensure that I didn’t remove too much stock. Truly I didn’t want to remove any stock, but that’s not realistic when you are trying to clean up a buggered surface. I felt confident that as long as I kept it to a minimum (.0001”-.0002”) and stayed away from bearing surfaces, I would be just fine. I started off with a stone to knock off any high spots, then followed up with 400,600,800,1000 grit. Not everything looks beautiful, but I’m happy with how everything cleaned up and I hardly removed any material.

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Next up was installing the bearing. Unfortunately I’m still waiting on the rear bearing, but I was able to get the front bearing installed.

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I then moved on to installing the front and rear races. Just like the removal, I installed them with a slug of aluminum and a milling machine stud set. This helped me make sure that everything stayed nice and straight, and was nicely seated against the shoulders.

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Lastly, I installed the inner protective cups. They keep chips out of the bearings, and hold the oil in for the bearings. While doing so, I placed a dab of permetex gasket sealer on the lower portion of the cup. When I first installed the cup, it liked to weep a bit of oil here and there. I did my best to fix the problem, without making the parts a bear to remove.

As the night came to an end, I wiped everything down with oil, and put some rags in the headstock to keep out as much debris as possible. I then installed the top cover since I wouldn’t be getting back to things until I receive the last bearing Wednesday or Thursday.

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Done for the night on the machine. Gotta do an oil change.







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OccupantRJ

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What is the latest on the lathe? I am just beginning restoration on a 5914 that I bought for $100 about 16 years ago. A couple of moves and life got in the way. Now I am retired and have more shop time available. I just finished a 20" Rockwell Delta vertical bandsaw.
 
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Cahark

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Sorry to get back to you so late on the lathe. I got everything back together and it ran very well. I can’t say that the spindle bearings fixed everything 100%, however the spindle ran much quieter and I would say they fixed things about 95% of the way. It was great, however I’m used to running heavy duty industrial machines at work every day and as much as I was happy with Machine, I really wanted something heavier. I believe that this machine given its size was running very near its full potential with the repairs that I completed.

I had full intentions of keeping this machine and running the **** out of it for the rest my life however, By the luck of the draw I found a real gem in the basement of a house in Dayton. It was a real nightmare removing the machine from the basement but that’s another topic.

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After I purchased the new machine I decided to sell the clausing locally. It’s been gone a week now and I kind of miss it ha ha. I know it’s on to a good home and will get plenty of use.






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tarbellb

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Congrats on the new machine!

Off topic a bit, but what was the price difference between Amazon and your local bearing supplier out of curiosity?
 
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Cahark

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Congrats on the new machine!

Off topic a bit, but what was the price difference between Amazon and your local bearing supplier out of curiosity?



Honestly it varied wildly. If I remember correctly, amazon kicks **** on common sizes like 6203. I can usually save 20-40% on high quality Japanese bearings (amazon always wins on non name brands made in China) on the other hand, BDI usually has what I need in stock same day and Sometimes they will completely surprise me on prices and blow amazon out of the water. I’ve gotten in the habit of checking both.

When it comes to large sizes and less than common bearings I check eBay and amazon. BDI has been a bit pricy when it comes to those.


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vmaxma3

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Great job on the Clausing restoration. Just picked up a 5448 and came across your postings. Lots of great information.
 

AndySomogyi

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I’ve picked up one of these 5428 also. Mine’s in pretty wonky condition.

Is this right that the motor switch wiring goes under the spindle, right by the gear train? The upper wiring on mine is all dried out and rotted, need to replace it.

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Cahark

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I’ve picked up one of these 5428 also. Mine’s in pretty wonky condition.

Is this right that the motor switch wiring goes under the spindle, right by the gear train? The upper wiring on mine is all dried out and rotted, need to replace it.

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Sorry, missed this. That switch will work just fine. It may not be original, but it has forward, reverse, and should be rated to handle your motor.


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matt_i

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Somehow I missed the appearance of the "square dial" 10EE!!!

I think its a good trade, we definitely need a separate thread on the acquisition and movement of that! :D
 

Wardmoto

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AndySomogyi

I just got done a refurbishing my 5400 and used this thread quite a bit. I too had to do some re-wiring and can help you with anything you might need. In your second pic of the spindle viewed from the top with the side cover folded over so you are showing us the wiring and the end of the spindle, see the large hole the spindle passes through? Directly below that is a small hole. That hole is for a bolt that passes through from the outside and locates a bracket tight up against the inside of the cover. That bracket holds the wire in question away from the meshing gear teeth inside the cover. I don't have a picture of mine, but can take one if you need it. If the picture I attach works, you can just barley see the bolt in question under the spindle...

Anything else you need, please post/ask. This thread was a huge help for me and I learned a lot; I'd love to pass on whatever I can.
 

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Cahark

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That machine looks great. Glad the post was able to help others. I wound up with another 5400. I plan to go through it and sell it, or give it to my Father. I plan to post some updates as I proceed.

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Wardmoto

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Thanks for the compliment, it really is nice to see you back on here! I want to thank you for taking the time to post everything you did, it helped me very much and flattened my learning curve considerably. My lathe looked a bit better than the 2 you have/had but not by much. I can't understand why these things always seem to end up with terd green paint!?!
 

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Cahark

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Thanks for the compliment, it really is nice to see you back on here! I want to thank you for taking the time to post everything you did, it helped me very much and flattened my learning curve considerably. My lathe looked a bit better than the 2 you have/had but not by much. I can't understand why these things always seem to end up with terd green paint!?!



No problem, glad I was able to help.


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Cahark

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As some of you may have read in the past few comments, I somehow wound up with another one of these Clausing 5400 lathes. This machine spent its last 30 years or so in the home shop of a man who made and re-built pedal tractors. It’s in pretty rough condition but I believe that it should clean up well. I intend to sell the machine after completion as I already have another machine. I just really enjoy this as a hobby.

I started to take the top half of the lathe apart over the past two weeks. As I proceeded I wire wheeled every single fastener and part where applicable. After the bulk of the grime was removed I used my parts washer or my ultrasonic to finish the cleaning process. I like to use the simple green precision cleaner in my ultrasonic as hot as I can get it. I then followed up with a light coat of oil where necessary.

This year I have the help of a sandblaster at home. Last time I just used a needle scaler, wire wheel, and a scrub brush. This worked fine but it made it much larger mess and took a lot longer. You have to be careful that you don’t get into any precision surfaces with the bead blaster, but it makes very quick work of removing many years of paint, dirt, and grime. On areas like hand wheels, I polished The non-painted surfaces after blast with a wire wheel. I plan to paint the inside with color, and clearcoat the unpainted outside to prevent rust. I’ve done this a couple times on other machines and it seems to of worked out well.

Another change for this year is the setting up of a temporary paint booth. I decided to put some hooks into my ceiling and purchase some tarps and a grommet kit to make a paint booth that I could throw up quickly and easily. I tried it out for the first time today and it worked out very well. I used to cover up everything in my shop and paint out in the open, but this addition helped to keep my mess to one consolidated area.

I’m just going to dump a bunch of pictures to show progress. Feel free to ask questions and I will try to help as best as I can.

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Cahark

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Dayton,Oh
This evening turned out to be more productive than I had originally expected. I started things out cleaning up the painted parts and the makeshift paint booth. Everything turned out very well and the gloss looks great.

Next I moved on to removing the bed from the base. This year I have the help of a small shop crane, so the job was very simple and easy on my back. The crane isn’t the most heavy duty, but for small items less than 500 pounds it works great. I then flipped the bed over and started to remove the idler pulley. Unfortunately it was more stuck than the last machine that I worked on. On that machine I was able to use a slide hammer, but I didn’t have any luck with that this time. I took a tip from Andy and made a Small puller out of some threaded rod and tubing. That allowed me to slowly walk out the shaft with a nut and some washers. Worked great.

I hope to have everything stripped by the weekend and get to painting the base and bed this week.

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Cahark

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Dayton,Oh
This evening I had a few hours to continue disassembly. I focused on the Base and the under Drive unit.

This allowed me to verify some bearing numbers and belt sizes so I can go ahead and get them on order. I figured it would be the same as the last machine but you never know for sure until you start getting into it.

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AndySomogyi

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This evening I had a few hours to continue disassembly. I focused on the Base and the under Drive unit.

This allowed me to verify some bearing numbers and belt sizes so I can go ahead and get them on order. I figured it would be the same as the last machine but you never know for sure until you start getting into it.

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The under drive on this one is the same as mine. This is the squirreliest belt drive I’ve ever seen. b0e155c92dcd894b42d6cdd72627edab.jpg


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Wardmoto

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May 20, 2016
Messages
45
Location
Carlisle PA
Hey guys,

My lathe was reworked a bit prior to my ownership. It has a stepped under drive with a 5 position drive pulley belted to a 5 position driven pulley that sits on the same shaft that contains the clutch pack,brake shoe arraignment. I know they made a few of different under drive configurations but despite ours being different, to the left of the clutch/brake lever of both of your machines you have something where I just have blanked over holes. You can see mine in this pic, my holes were covered with a round and rectangle plate...what goes in those holes on your machines and what does it do??
 

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AndySomogyi

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My house
here is what I am referencing on your machines...



That’s the variable speed control, and speed read out. Some of these came with step pulleys and others with variable speed belt drive. The hand screw controls a lever that moves the variable speed pulleys in and out


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Cahark

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Dayton,Oh
The under drive on this one is the same as mine. This is the squirreliest belt drive I’ve ever seen. b0e155c92dcd894b42d6cdd72627edab.jpg


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That’s odd, my motor is mounted on the back side. However, I do know that there are multiple mounting configurations for the drive system.


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AndySomogyi

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That’s odd, my motor is mounted on the back side. However, I do know that there are multiple mounting configurations for the drive system.


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Here’s mine from the back, and here’s the two drive belts. Don’t know who the manufacturer is, but the outer one says ‘RVS 506 16’ and the inner one says ‘RVS 505 25’d9af1e5c808066889b0c10b0e8414b9a.jpgc5eebef1f41ddb20aa3b78a0398ee5a9.jpg


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Cahark

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Dayton,Oh
The last few days allowed for a lot of progress. I was able to strip down the rest of the machine with angle grinders and the media blaster. It came off pretty well using a 60grit flap wheel being careful to only remove the paint. I also used a needle scaler to get into the corners.

I was able to get the frozen clutch assembly apart. There I found why it would not engage or disengage due to a broken key keeping everything from moving. Thanks to the extra clutch assembly found with the machine I believe this to have been replaced recently. The extra parts all look to be serviceable, so I may have some parts for sale in the near future if anyone needs them. Let me know.

Today I painted half of the stripped parts, and Friday I will finish the other half. If all goes as planned I should be able to start assembly this weekend or next.

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Cahark

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Today I was able to finish the rest of the paint. Assembly should start towards the end of the weekend or next week.

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Cahark

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Dayton,Oh
After working on a few other projects today that took full advantage of our 55° weather, I turned my attention to assembly. The machine takes up quite a bit of space when it is disassembled, Plus I would like to have the lathe operational as soon as possible.

I decided to install everything on The 2 x 4 runners that we used to move the machine. This makes it simple for me to move around the shop with a pallet jack and very easy for someone to load onto their trailer. The wood runners had stains and dirt coated all over them. It would be a shame to put together a fresh machine like this with those ugly things, so I decided to quickly spray them with some black paint just to dress them up a little bit. I plan to inform whoever decides to purchase this machine to remove them and anchor the machine to the ground during final installation.

Just wanted to remind everyone that this machine will be for sale upon completion in the Dayton Ohio area.



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OccupantRJ

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Cahark, seems you are a refurb junkie like myself. As I mentioned in post #129, here is a before and after on the Clausing 5914 lathe that I was starting at the time. It has been a sweet running machine.
 

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Cahark

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Cahark, seems you are a refurb junkie like myself. As I mentioned in post #129, here is a before and after on the Clausing 5914 lathe that I was starting at the time. It has been a sweet running machine.



Wow, that’s a nice machine. Yep, my hobby is working on machines whenever I come across them cheap enough. I just finished up a Logan 8” shaper

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AndySomogyi

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Wow, that’s a nice machine. Yep, my hobby is working on machines whenever I come across them cheap enough. I just finished up a Logan 8” shaper






Wow, that’s a great shaper. I’ve never used one, and I really wish I had more time and money, would love to play around with one, see what kinds of possibilities it had, ha ha, maybe even do a CNC shaper build :)


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