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Counterfeit Snap on wrenches? Is there such a thing?

I

impactims

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Nov 24, 2011
Messages
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So, I have been snooping around on eBay lately looking for deals. Finally decided to go down THAT rabbit hole.

I noticed some sellers have lots and lots of brand spanking new Snap on wrench sets (other stuff too) and for a price that looks pretty good.

Last night I gave into temptation and bought a set of wrenches that I have been wanting for a while but couldn't justify spending much on. The price was too good for me to pass on.

It was only AFTER the purchase that alarms started going off in my head that maybe these are fake.

Lots of fake Louis Vuitton, lots of fake Rolex, lots of fake Nike and maybe there is fake Snap on too?

China can copy anything, right?.........Can? Probably........................But do they actually do it with Snap on tools?

Thinking about it from a logical standpoint, to get set up to duplicate Snap on wrenches would likely cost more than it would be worth. So, my gut tells me there are very few fakes out there. But maybe a Chinese manufacturer that is already making wrenches could do it with minimal additional investment.

Back to my purchase.............I see that this guy has 20 or so of the same exact wrench set for sale at a substantial discount. He has nothing else for sale that is tool related. So not likely a tool dealer of any sort. Who has 20 new SO wrench sets like this, brand new, that is not a dealer? Odd. The things he does have for sale other than the wrench sets I mentioned are suspect to say the least. Aftermarket auto parts made by a manufacturer that claims to manufacture in USA but let's just say that claim is heavily disputed. They have been found to actually be made in China even though they claim USA. And the business appears rather shady according to everyone that has looking into them. This is all according to what I can find on Google looking through various forums and reddit. I have not found any of this (the aftermarket parts) out myself.

So, we have 20 new SO wrench sets and several aftermarket parts made by a what appears to be a dishonest manufacturer, claiming to manufacture in USA when they are manufacturing in China. Red flag maybe? Then you might say they are stolen. But what tool thief gets their hands on 20+ of the same exact wrench set, brand new, in the package and nothing else? What legit dealer even has 20+ of the same wrench set in inventory for someone to be able to steal?

I placed the order, they have shipped, but they are not in my hands yet.

What can be seen in the pics looks good enough to pass the sniff test. But, there is a lot that can't be seen.

Thoughts?

More to come.
 
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Fedwrench

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There was a guy a few years ago or so that worked in a snap on warehouse and sold lots of new tools on ebay. He did a lot of business with members here. There was a thread when he got busted.

The deal is done so, I wouldn't lose sleep over it but let us know when they arrive and if they're legit.
 
OP
I

impactims

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Joined
Nov 24, 2011
Messages
1,168
mngundog said:
Always check the seller feedback, and how long he's been selling. If he's selling knock-offs for any length of time, it should show up in the reviews.
Click to expand...
Of course, I checked feedback and all that is there for the wrench sets (he has sold several) is...

"Order delivered on time with no issues.........eBay automated feedback"

Buyers that left no feedback after a certain amount of time, so eBay automatically leaves feedback for the seller on behalf of the buyer.

Doesn't mean much.
 
D

dchawk81

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Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
14,359
impactims said:
So, I have been snooping around on eBay lately looking for deals. Finally decided to go down THAT rabbit hole.

I noticed some sellers have lots and lots of brand spanking new Snap on wrench sets (other stuff too) and for a price that looks pretty good.

Last night I gave into temptation and bought a set of wrenches that I have been wanting for a while but couldn't justify spending much on. The price was too good for me to pass on.

It was only AFTER the purchase that alarms started going off in my head that maybe these are fake.

Lots of fake Louis Vuitton, lots of fake Rolex, lots of fake Nike and maybe there is fake Snap on too?

China can copy anything, right?.........Can? Probably........................But do they actually do it with Snap on tools?

Thinking about it from a logical standpoint, to get set up to duplicate Snap on wrenches would likely cost more than it would be worth. So, my gut tells me there are very few fakes out there. But maybe a Chinese manufacturer that is already making wrenches could do it with minimal additional investment.

Back to my purchase.............I see that this guy has 20 or so of the same exact wrench set for sale at a substantial discount. He has nothing else for sale that is tool related. So not likely a tool dealer of any sort. Who has 20 new SO wrench sets like this, brand new, that is not a dealer? Odd. The things he does have for sale other than the wrench sets I mentioned are suspect to say the least. Aftermarket auto parts made by a manufacturer that claims to manufacture in USA but let's just say that claim is heavily disputed. They have been found to actually be made in China even though they claim USA. And the business appears rather shady according to everyone that has looking into them. This is all according to what I can find on Google looking through various forums and reddit. I have not found any of this (the aftermarket parts) out myself.

So, we have 20 new SO wrench sets and several aftermarket parts made by a what appears to be a dishonest manufacturer, claiming to manufacture in USA when they are manufacturing in China. Red flag maybe? Then you might say they are stolen. But what tool thief gets their hands on 20+ of the same exact wrench set, brand new, in the package and nothing else? What legit dealer even has 20+ of the same wrench set in inventory for someone to be able to steal?

I placed the order, they have shipped, but they are not in my hands yet.

What can be seen in the pics looks good enough to pass the sniff test. But, there is a lot that can't be seen.

Thoughts?

More to come.
Click to expand...
Counterfeits are usually labeled Icon.
 
G

GX460DIYguy

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Message me with a link or a username. If the deal is good enough I may get a set to keep in my suv tool drawer.
 
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woody 73

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Yes, indeed there are counterfeits, but I would be surprised at all the trouble it would be to make copies of Snap-on tools, plus it just seems to not pay in the long run. several years ago, we had a GJ member that was selling some strange snap-on ratchets that he was calling rare, and I must admit in all my many years I had never seen such a strange looking snap-on item before. Turns out he was taking off the handle/or adding handles to models that never had any handles he was gluing on handles and turning them into Frankenstein ratchets. He got banned for it but he must have made a small fortune on E-bay, so don't you kids try that home.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:(n)(n)
 
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zendriver

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Indiana
Normally expensive, high-quality, special merchandise, for sale in dubious places at rock bottom prices. Buyers convince themselves “it just has to be real” and go for it.

This is the Reason that the counterfeit marketplace exists. If one wonders if they are real, send some images to their customer support. See what they say. :rolleyes2

If whoever is selling them does not get bad feedback, maybe the tools are of nice quality and work just fine. (Yay it’s snap on) As far as wondering if China has the ability to copy snap on hand tools., seriously?

It’s win-win for everybody - except Snap On.
 
M

mreisner

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Jun 25, 2019
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On eBay most likely get a set of Snap-on wrenches. Facebook Marketplace a lot of times you get fake tracking numbers and scam especially if you use non-refundable type payment methods. It doesn't get talked about a lot but there are a few guys that are Snap-on dealers that have somebody selling for them on eBay. If the guy you ordered from his initials are LP out of Texas, he's legit. I run some Facebook Marketplace swaps and one regarding tool scammers, if you want to send me a private message I can give you some more information.
 
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lund

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Nov 2, 2019
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Michigan
Hmmm. Ebay certainly has a lot of low margin scams. But to make a counterfeit, you need high enough profit on enough sales to be worthwhile to at least a small time criminal/scamster. It would cost a lot more to make a,smalk # of knock-off high end wrenches than it would to buy a small # of high end wrenches. So they would need to sell a lot to make worthwhile. I really doubt that one guy selling a limited lot would recoup even the setup cost. They would need something selling with a lot of such guys. The market would also need to be large enough not to be overwhelmed with word getting out and everyone getting cautious. I would be surprised if this could be done for the limited market of high end wrenches.

But as someone pointed out, Icon brand at Harbor Freight is sort of the industrial equivalent of counterfeit. Icon makes good copy of snap-on at much lower cost and sell a lot but under their brand labeling. Much of their lines are close copies of Snap-On equivalents. That is allowed under law though is somewhat sleazy. Snap-On tools are not necessarily so special as their price would suggest ... they are easily close enough copied by many upper end tool manufacturers. When you buy Snap-On, you are paying for the pro truck + lifetime warranty service and a high end premium. I never understood the need for that for DIY guys, but to each their own. I also never understood the fixation of some women with very expensive branded Italian designer purses like Louis Vuitton that get counterfited relentlessly. That counterfeit line is easy to understand since it is a basic product that is easy to copy and hugely over priced. I do not think Snap-On has that much distribution since they are mostly pro shop tools in areas served by the tool trucks.
 
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V

Vinny

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Simi Valley, CA
Wrench-Polisher said:
China counterfeits their own counterfeit stuff.
Click to expand...

Funny story on that. There was a company in China that started as counterfeiting chip capacitors. The thing was, they were really good at it. So good that their counterfeits were BETTER than anything the real companies were putting out. So China decided to nationalize the counterfeiter and ditch all the others!
 
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dchawk81

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zendriver said:
Interesting.

On a subconscious level, they like the product, but they say they hate it in order to get others to defend in order to getyet more social media buzz

Well, this is the age of the Internet
Click to expand...
It's more of a tingle.
 
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neophyte

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lund said:
Hmmm. Ebay certainly has a lot of low margin scams. But to make a counterfeit, you need high enough profit on enough sales to be worthwhile to at least a small time criminal/scamster. It would cost a lot more to make knock-off high end wrenches than it would to buy high end wrenches. So they would need to sell a lot to make worthwhile. I really one guy selling a limited lot would recoup even the setup cost. They would need something selling with a lot of such guys. The market would also need to be large enough not to be overwhelmed with word getting out and everyone getting cautious. I would be surprised if this could be done for the limited market of high end wrenches.

But as someone pointed out, Icon brand at Harbor Freight is sort of the industrial equivalent of counterfeit. Icon makes good copy at much lower cost and sell a lot but under their brand labeling. Much of their lines are close copies of Snap-On equivalents. That is allowed under law though is somewhat sleazy. Snap-On tools are not necessarily so special as their price would suggest ... they are easily close enough copied by many upper end tool manufacturers. When you buy Snap-On, you are paying for the pro truck + lifetime warranty service and a high end premium. I never understood the need for that for DIY guys, but to each their own. I also never understood the fixation of some women with very expensive branded Italian designer purses like Louis Vuitton that get counterfited relentlessly. That counterfeit line is easy to understand since it is a basic product that is easy to copy and hugely over priced. I do not think Snap-On has that much distribution since they are mostly pro shop tools in areas served by the tool trucks.
Click to expand...
The best reason for DIY guys to by “Professional/Industrial” tools, is that if the guy uses the tool, and the tool “doesn’t work”, then the DIY guy can likely know that he is either using the wrong tool, or using the tool wrong.
Admittedly, every once in a while, “Professional” tool brands put out tools that are ****, and don’t work, or make a batch of the tools wrong, so the above argument for using pro tools is not guaranteed, but it's usually a good reason.

Other reasons for a DIY guy to use professional tools, is that a pro tool used under less demanding conditions has the potential to last a lifetime for the DIY guy.
Also, “Pro” tools, sometimes work way better than homeowner grade tools.


As far as “Luxury Goods” go, the actual “high end” brands, cost a fortune because they are actually made from high quality material, with impeccable quality control.
However, there are plenty of brands that pretend to be “Luxury” brands, that are actually sort of mid range, and don’t necessarily have proper quality control, and other items, were the higher end brand label is just put on a decently made item from a lower priced brand.
Snap-On even does this with tools. (Hence the bad PR from the lawsuit against Harbor Freight).

As for “knock off” Snap-On, it wouldn’t be worth it to make “knock off” wrenches, just to try to sell the wrenches as genuine Snap-On wrenches, but it would likely be possible, to find a similar wrench design from an OEM manufacturer, and to purchase unmarked wrenches, and then have a Snap-On die made to stamp the unbranded wrenches, and then have the wrenches plated.
This would likely be way more doable, and way cheaper.
One former, now banned, GJ member had been selling a Snap-On ratchet clone, (I think retailed by Harbor Freight), onto which he put genuine Snap-On replacement handles, and he was selling the ratchets as genuine SO on eBay.
Putting Snap-On badges on cheaper tool boxes is also a thing.
I’ve personally run into sellers on Amazon and eBay selling generic Indian wrenches under other brands such as Gedore or one of the other German brands. (The wrenches weren’t even the Indian produced Gedore wrenches).
 
D

dchawk81

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Messages
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neophyte said:
The best reason for DIY guys to by “Professional/Industrial” tools, is that if the guy uses the tool, and the tool “doesn’t work”, then the DIY guy can likely know that he is either using the wrong tool, or using the tool wrong.
Admittedly, every once in a while, “Professional” tool brands put out tools that are ****, and don’t work, or make a batch of the tools wrong, so the above argument for using pro tools is not guaranteed, but it's usually a good reason.

Other reasons for a DIY guy to use professional tools, is that a pro tool used under less demanding conditions has the potential to last a lifetime for the DIY guy.
Also, “Pro” tools, sometimes work way better than homeowner grade tools.


As far as “Luxury Goods” go, the actual “high end” brands, cost a fortune because they are actually made from high quality material, with impeccable quality control.
However, there are plenty of brands that pretend to be “Luxury” brands, that are actually sort of mid range, and don’t necessarily have proper quality control, and other items, were the higher end brand label is just put on a decently made item from a lower priced brand.
Snap-On even does this with tools. (Hence the bad PR from the lawsuit against Harbor Freight).

As for “knock off” Snap-On, it wouldn’t be worth it to make “knock off” wrenches, just to try to sell the wrenches as genuine Snap-On wrenches, but it would likely be possible, to find a similar wrench design from an OEM manufacturer, and to purchase unmarked wrenches, and then have a Snap-On die made to stamp the unbranded wrenches, and then have the wrenches plated.
This would likely be way more doable, and way cheaper.
One former, now banned, GJ member had been selling a Snap-On ratchet clone, (I think retailed by Harbor Freight), onto which he put genuine Snap-On replacement handles, and he was selling the ratchets as genuine SO on eBay.
Putting Snap-On badges on cheaper tool boxes is also a thing.
I’ve personally run into sellers on Amazon and eBay selling generic Indian wrenches under other brands such as Gedore or one of the other German brands. (The wrenches weren’t even the Indian produced Gedore wrenches).
Click to expand...
I like the better stuff (not just SO as a brand) because there's a bit of a confidence boost when working on 30+ year old vehicles in Pennsylvania.

Just the other day I was removing an oil feed line and fitting from a 1988 LTL9000 turbo housing. It wouldn't surprise me if they're original. Having the perfect fit and no spread from a Snap-on line wrench helped a lot.

I'd probably give zero poops if I was in Arizona.
 
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milky2k

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Location
Los Angeles CA
A picture of the item would have helped. By counterfeit do you mean that it looks identical to Snap On, or that it sort of looks like Snap On to a casual observer, or that is says Snap On but not in font or style of tool ever made by the original manufacturer? To me its highly unlikely that anyone is going through the effort of making identical Snap On wrenches and then selling them cheaply. If they went through all that effort to make an identical tool, box it, ship it and clear customs, they would probably try to get as much money as possible rather than sell them cheaply on ebay/FBMP. If there were such counterfeits someone probably paid close to full price for them never knowing they were not genuine. If they were wrenches that said "Snap On" but not in the usual font or style of tool ever sold by the manufacturer then those would be much easier to detect or at least raise suspicion. In my opinion it would be much easier to make tools that sort of look like Snap On but have some slight difference to get by whatever regulations/laws might apply. Looking at you ICON. (Btw I prefer the ICON socket over the Snap On socket since ICON's stampings are a little bit larger/easier to read.) Or maybe they are selling Williams, CAT or whatever other company sells rebranded Snap On, Williams, Blue Point tools and saying these are "Snap On" or "same as Snap On" or something like that. Williams sockets and screwdrivers are the same as Snap On. CAT sells sockets that are really Snap On, wrenches that are same as Williams, pliers that are same as Snap On for much less than what Snap On charges. Maybe the ebay guy is selling the lower priced genuine item and calling it made by Snap On? I'm curious to see what product arrives and how much you paid for them. Thanks
 
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zendriver

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milky2k said:
A picture of the item would have helped. By counterfeit do you mean that it looks identical to Snap On, or that it sort of looks like Snap On to a casual observer, or that is says Snap On but not in font or style of tool ever made by the original manufacturer? To me its highly unlikely that anyone is going through the effort of making identical Snap On wrenches and then selling them cheaply. If they went through all that effort to make an identical tool, box it, ship it and clear customs, they would probably try to get as much money as possible rather than sell them cheaply on ebay/FBMP. If there were such counterfeits someone probably paid close to full price for them never knowing they were not genuine. If they were wrenches that said "Snap On" but not in the usual font or style of tool ever sold by the manufacturer then those would be much easier to detect or at least raise suspicion. In my opinion it would be much easier to make tools that sort of look like Snap On but have some slight difference to get by whatever regulations/laws might apply. Looking at you ICON. (Btw I prefer the ICON socket over the Snap On socket since ICON's stampings are a little bit larger/easier to read.) Or maybe they are selling Williams, CAT or whatever other company sells rebranded Snap On, Williams, Blue Point tools and saying these are "Snap On" or "same as Snap On" or something like that. Williams sockets and screwdrivers are the same as Snap On. CAT sells sockets that are really Snap On, wrenches that are same as Williams, pliers that are same as Snap On for much less than what Snap On charges. Maybe the ebay guy is selling the lower priced genuine item and calling it made by Snap On? I'm curious to see what product arrives and how much you paid for them. Thanks
Click to expand...
One would think “counterfeit “would be a tool that says snap on that is not made by snap on. :headscrat:

For any factory that makes wrenches, ratchets or sockets counterfeiting, seems like it’d be a simple thing to do.

We’d be kidding ourselves otherwise
 
V

visionguru

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impactims said:
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I used to be big on Snap On, visiting eBay quite often. As far as I can tell, there are counterfeit bags, watches, auto parts...., but there is no such thing as "counterfeit Snap On". Guess the small, limited customer base makes it not worth the effort.
 
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Wrench97

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Southeastern Pa
Being in the LTL freight industry for 40 plus years I can see how a odd set of 30 something could show up at a flea market/ EBay etc.
Both legit and non legit.
I've seen some terminals that had 5+ overflowing OSD(over/short/damaged) trailers of unprocessed shipments/partial shipments due to billing errors(consigned to wrong address/wrong customer), shipment errors(loaded on trailer to NY instead of Ca, with no bill no labels).
We even had SLC(Shipper Load and Count) These are usually multiple bills to multiple consignees sometimes even multiple products so a sort and segregate load with no labels on the freight and you end up with too much product and the shipper says it's not ours so we send it off to the salvage store.
Then there the tote/open top bin skids of loose product ships as one skid nobody knows how many pieces are in the bin so it moves through the system across several docks and delivers clean but fast Freddy in Buffalo grabbed a handful on the way by...
 
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E

epiphany

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May 18, 2010
Messages
104
Did the same here in the EU three weeks and one week ago.


Four or five weeks ago, i found a new high quality brand socket wrench set on eBay for ~ 150 Euro.
Normally the set would cost around 400 Euro @ amazon and others. The seller had three listed.
A week later, the seller didn't sell any of the three sets and reduced the price to ~ 100 Euro.
Couldn't resist and ordered one. The set came a few days later.
All parts look genuine and unused, i don't think it's a fake, BUT it's the wrong set.
The cardboard around the steel case shows a different set.
The label on the steel box is showing the name of the set i ordered on eBay.
Inside the steel case is the same set that is on the cardboard.
The certificate of the set has no number at all.
No idea what happened at all. Probably some factory second.
Was still worth it, because the set would cost around 450 Euro here.


Two weeks ago, nearly the same happened again. Found something i already wanted for a long time.
Another new high quality brand socket on eBay for ~ 200 Euro. Normally the set would cost around 300 Euro.
One week later, the seller didn't sell any of the sets and reduced the price to ~ 150 Euro.
Couldn't resist and bought one. The set came a few days later again. All parts look genuine and unused again.
The cardboard has some numbers written on it, but shows the real item.
The steel case is labeled correct and inside the steel case is the set i ordered.
The certificate has a number on it. But there is no foam in the upper side of the steel case.
All product pictures show foam there. Maybe it's a returned item sold again.


I'm still happy with both purchases, because i saved quite a lot of money...
:D
 
C

cherrybomb

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Oct 18, 2016
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Location
Near Madison Wi.
dchawk81 said:
I like the better stuff (not just SO as a brand) because there's a bit of a confidence boost when working on 30+ year old vehicles in Pennsylvania.

Just the other day I was removing an oil feed line and fitting from a 1988 LTL9000 turbo housing. It wouldn't surprise me if they're original. Having the perfect fit and no spread from a Snap-on line wrench helped a lot.

I'd probably give zero poops if I was in Arizona.
Click to expand...
You're passing on a valuable lesson,from what you've learned living in a rust belt state,Pa.and being a member here on GJ.That sometimes buying once and crying once is ,in the long term ,gets it done.When you reach for that quality tool,like you said,the confidence factor,is a good feeling.As we've all been there,it's a WOW,I'm glad that worked moment!!!!
 
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D

dchawk81

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Messages
14,359
cherrybomb said:
You're passing on a valuable lesson,from what you've learned living in a rust belt state,Pa.and being a member here on GJ.That sometimes buying once and crying once is ,in the long term ,gets it done.When you reach for that quality tool,like you said,the confidence factor,is a good feeling.As we've all been there,it's a WOW,I'm glad that worked moment!!!!
Click to expand...
Yes I had some Tekton line wrenches from my no money days but the fit is so poor that there's zero confidence.

At least when you use the better stuff you have as good a chance as you're gonna get.
 
T

Tchicken

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Location
THE Motor City
Not sure with hand tools, but with respect to watches the counterfeiters promote their junk as an "homage" to somehow ease the shame of being fake .. but a poseur is still a poseur
 
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