E-tek Restorations: PROJECT THREAD

[machine_punk]

Howdy, E-tek.

It somehow never occurred to me that you had a web page or blog site...so I finally went and looked at those today. I have a web page reserved, but there is not much there yet...just mainly a quick blurb about the studio and directions to Garage Journal to see the rest.

YIKES! That car isn't giving you any sort of break, is it? How do you deal with that on a customer's car (just generally...is there a budget discussed at the front of the project, with conversations when it is clear that budget isn't going to be met?) I assume this is your 'day job,' so it would actually be best to take the longest time on the car (assuming 'time and materials,') but I suspect your are limited by the customer's budget in how long you can take.

Also, I thought I'd attach a couple of pics of me, doing a little 'panel beating.' These were several years ago, when I was stationed in England. I went to a 5-day course on building patch panels and bodies from scratch, for vintage Jaguar XK's. These guys at Contour Autocraft are amazing. Give them three months, and they can reproduce a Jaguar XK new, from scratch. Here, you see me shaping a fender patch panel on their modern version of a stump. Then, a picture of me, holding my biggest project of the week, along with the other guys who took the course too (That's me, on the right, holding the Jaguar fender).

M_P

 

[e-tek]

Well geeze M_P, with all those courses under your belt, I'd bet you could do what I'm doing - and do it much better to boot!

As far as my day job, most here know that my 'real' day job is selling drugs . I'm a pharma rep for a major drug company, which gives me the freedom to enjoy my hobby, which is working on cars. As far as charging goes, I only charge for the time I am actually working and don't even charge for general materials. I generally average one job every year or two (yes, two) and I bill $50/hr, which is about half to one-third a shops rate.
I only work on jobs I can "get in to" and where the owner is into it even more. I don't really solicit work, it's generally word of mouth and if I get a break between working on others' rides (which isn't often lately), I work on my own projects.
Next up is a 40 Ford Sedan Rod with an LS1 already in it. It needs finishing, including panel fitment, electrical, a custom console and interior work. No rust work!

 

[e-tek]

Continuing on, I made these pieces and applied Zinc.

As well as the edges to be welded to:

This is the inside of the above area:

Which needed cleaning and undercoat removed. Best tool I've found yet to remove undercoating is this oscillating multi-tool. Works like a charm!

Welding in the pieces:

This is one of those hidden pieces. It's the end cap on the rocker....

Then this piece is from the inner half of the wheel well, which goes over top:

This is how picky I try to be: I could see by looking at the left side that the next piece should look like it's overlapping the inner piece with no weld at the edge. It was was spot welded at the factory, so I'll do the same:

Outer rocker patch welded and dressed:

Now the more difficult part - the wheel arch and quarter patch I cut out:

Trim and shape...

I decided to make the lip separately, then weld them together, so that I wouldn't need to pie-cut it to form the arch:

Looks like it might work - with a lot of work!

Lastly for today, I welded up all the old slide-hammer holes.

Tomorrow I'll begin planishing them, as well as the quarter, with the air hammer and this bit that I made. I want to smooth it all out so as not to require as much filler as was there previously.

 

[HOTFR8]

Ed, not sure if you are aware but your photos are slow to load making your topic hard to follow. I wonder what / who / where you are using as a photo host.

 

[e-tek]

Ed, not sure if you are aware but your photos are slow to load making your topic hard to follow. I wonder what / who / where you are using as a photo host.

First I've heard of that. I use Picasa. Anyone else notice same?

 

[PCO6]

No problem here. They load so quickly I'm having trouble keeping up! Your project is coming along great.

 

[don long]

Must be the distance cause they hit my box without a glitch

they look pretty good Ed
Don

 

[HOTFR8]

If no one else has the same issue then, well I just hope it is my server on a go slow .

Slowing down my enjoyment.

 

[Motown 454]

Nice attention to detail, its what makes you work so nice.

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Nasty surprises waiting for you to 'discover' them.

A quick question for the 'Magician of Metals' -
When you are getting a patch ready for tacking in place, how do you decide when you have the correct curve/contour/bend/crease/detail? Do you judge 'by eye', 'by palm feel', 'contour gauge', 'opposite side panel comparison', or what? It just seems to me that there is much more 'art' than 'skill' in trimming and forming these panel patches.

 

[e-tek]

Nasty surprises waiting for you to 'discover' them.

A quick question for the 'Magician of Metals' -
When you are getting a patch ready for tacking in place, how do you decide when you have the correct curve/contour/bend/crease/detail? Do you judge 'by eye', 'by palm feel', 'contour gauge', 'opposite side panel comparison', or what? It just seems to me that there is much more 'art' than 'skill' in trimming and forming these panel patches.

First off thank you, - but without trying to be overly humble - the real 'magicians' are guys like Ron Covell and Robert (MP&C). Have you see his work? I do OK and am learning all the time, but I only aspire to "magician" status!

Anyways, I do agree with your assessment above - it's more about feel and look (for me) than anything. I do use a contour gauge and ruler when needed, but a lot of times I find that if I get it close and tack it in, I can then work it to a more exact shape as I go. Of course, sometimes I have to cut it out and start from scratch (of which there are several examples of that in this thread!)

Cheers!

 

[machine_punk]

As a side comment here...it is much more common for a new metalshaper to put too much shape into a panel, rather than too little (I.E. the patch panel will bulge out, instead of being a little too flat. It is always best to sneak up on the shape you need, and keep adding a little more shape.

Great job, e-tek! I am always amazed at how patiently you keep plugging away at the seemingly-endless repair patches in this project.

M_P

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

E-tek, thanks for your reply, and I will check out the work of the gentlemen you mentioned.

You may not consider yourself a 'Magician of Metals', but you certainly have your GJ audience convinced! Your skill may be just an illusion, but we're truly 'mesmerized'! lol
Please keep up the great work in documenting your 'magic act'.

P.S. - I'm also looking forward to seeing your son's first production video here or on your website.

 

[e-tek]

Thanks "O" - I appreciate the sentiment.

Today I got the largest piece of this sides puzzle installed. Now I need to clean up the inside, work out all the bump and humps, align everything and then apply a skiff of All-Metal filler.

 

[IGO2XS]

great thread. I really enjoy watching your work. You are a metal magician!!

 

[e-tek]

A Princess Auto X-mas in August!!!

Why take the truck? "OUR GAL" just eats stuff up.

This Impact Wrench is a work of art. I wanted one with more than 240 ft lbs (which is where a lot of them stop, but this one has 482 ft-lbs!!! That's enough to twist the ******* off Rosie O'Donnell.

Finally - a PLANISHING HAMMER baby!!! I was going to make one, but at $179 frikken bucks - WHY??

 

[HOTFR8]

OK, I am no officially jealous you even have a hoist with your own name on it.
My guess is Bendpak did that for you knowing full well you will be giving them free publicity. Now the dilema is should your posts be reported as SPAM

All jokes aside I wish I was there with you opening all those presents. Would have been alot of fun.

 

[Kevin54]

This Impact Wrench is a work of art. I wanted one with more than 240 ft lbs (which is where a lot of them stop, but this one has 482 ft-lbs!!! That's enough to twist the ******* off Rosie O'Donnell.

That left an ugly impression in my mind

 

[Motown 454]

Nice haul of goodies! And we know they are not just for show!

 

[HOTFR8]

This Impact Wrench is a work of art. I wanted one with more than 240 ft lbs (which is where a lot of them stop, but this one has 482 ft-lbs!!! That's enough to twist the ******* off Rosie O'Donnell.

That left an ugly impression in my mind

A mind numbing sensation for sure.

 

[e-tek]

Lots done today....some of it made easier with the new tools just purchased!

This is the patch on the inside of the R quarter. Normally this would be left fairly raw, maybe hit with some heavy undercoating, but then this ain't amateur hour. I cleaned it all up with several different dies, rocks and grinding wheels, then put a skiff of kitty hair on it. I'll sand that out and finish it so it's completely hidden - but more importantly - well sealed.

I treated the seams inside the quarter the same way. I did this on my Challenger and it looked like there had never been a repair there.

So......on to the last trouble spot (yay, but boo...). The previously damaged Left quarter was pulled with a frame puller with tabs welded to the quarters. These tabs rip as it's being pulled, tearing holes in the metal, which then need to be welded up. It's not the worst repair ever - especially since it was a collision repair (not a resto), done a long time ago (brass) and there were (and are still!) no new parts available for these cars.

However, there was a lot of filler in here, so by cutting out this section and working the metal we can get it closer to original (less filler), replace the weakened edges and come away with a better overall repair:

Here's the worst part of the repaired area:

I needed to put some contour into the new piece, so I got to use the new planishing hammer! First I grabbed some scrap to adjust and get used to the new machine:

Then I cut out the measured pieces:

This:

Helps make this:

The replacement will consist of 4 pieces, these 3, plus one to replace all the brass at the top (which will be behind the quarter extension piece).

Lotsa welding and grinding to come!

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

I'm guessing that new toy/tool of yours is like a (Metal) Magician getting to use a brand new 'Magic Wand'. lol

Hey Rocky, watch me pull a Cougar out of my hat.....

 

[e-tek]

I'm guessing that new toy/tool of yours is like a (Metal) Magician getting to use a brand new 'Magic Wand'. lol

Hey Rocky, watch me pull a Cougar out of my hat.....

HaHa - well, maybe, kinda....

I am finding - like anyone I guess - the older I get, the smarter I get
....and how good tools can produce better results, easier.

 

[Kevin54]

E-Tek.....don't you have a shrinker and stretcher? If not, you ought to look into one. It would save you a lot of pounding for the tricky places.

I imagine the new planishing hammer will get a good workout with the cars you do.

 

[e-tek]

Ya - I' ve thought of getting a S/S many times. Not sure why I still form parts "old school"!??! Guess I was taught that way, enjoy it and don't really see the need to change it. The thing about the planishing hammer is that it can save me some time and give a smoother result than doing the same thing with my hammer on the anvil.

Speaking of which:

Also did a bunch of 'housekeeping' stuff today too, including helping the neighbor with her shower (drain!), cut the grass and killed weeds at 3 of our houses, hooked up a 5 speaker system in the Galaxie, laced up the FE Engine and painted a couple last bits, picked apples and repaired some stuff around the house.....

Mrs E-tek's MINI is going to get even faster. It's VERY quick already, but a new pulley will over-drive the Supercharger another 15%. She'll LOVE it.

I really have too much stuff now....

Yes - She got it "For Good Behavior!!

All while watching the Olympics from 3 TV's!! Usian Boooooolllttttt!!! Canada Womens Soccer, great wrestling, diving and Heptathalon too!

 

[onewaydave]

Hum, pickled apples. Might you post up the recipie? I've got about 12 trees busting with apples and need ideas and I don't think I've ever had pickled apples.

Dave, amazed at the things one might learn on GJ.com.

 

[Kevin54]

All while watching the Olympics from 3 TV's!! Usian Boooooolllttttt!!! Canada Womens Soccer, great wrestling, diving and Heptathalon too!

And some of my buddies thinks it odd that I have 2 TV's in my garage.

 

[wnstwolf]

Mr.s E-teck will love the added power you just gave the Mini. Prior to moving to the north country (well north here in NY) I had a 2008 Mini s and did the same hop up. I lived close to Helix Motors in Philly. The place is a Mini Hot rod shop that a lot like this forum once your in you can't get out. Amazing how fast you can make those tiny cars scoot!
Your a busy Guy E....

 

[MP&C]

Ed, I'll have to agree with Kevin, the s/s would be a good addition to your shop. Bending a 90 degree flange and setting the profile with the s/s IMO puts you ahead of the game over having to weld on a flange. If you can make your repair patches in one piece with no welds (or as few as possible), the better off you'll be. Even without a Lancaster style shrinker, one can perform tuck shrinking inexpensively and effectively.

 

[e-tek]

Hum, pickled apples. Might you post up the recipie? I've got about 12 trees busting with apples and need ideas and I don't think I've ever had pickled apples.

Pickled apples??? I said: PICKING apples!!

Not sure I'd want them pickled!

Mr.s E-teck will love the added power you just gave the Mini. Prior to moving to the north country (well north here in NY) I had a 2008 Mini s and did the same hop up. I lived close to Helix Motors in Philly. The place is a Mini Hot rod shop that a lot like this forum once your in you can't get out. Amazing how fast you can make those tiny cars scoot!
Your a busy Guy E....

Yer lucky you had it done at a shop - the mini-est thing about the MINI is the engine bay - Arrgghh!

The pulley I need to change is down there....

Even the tool I made from flat bar stock barely fit!

Anyways, back to the Cougar...this is (hopefully) the LAST piece of metal I need to replace!

Just have to planish the weld area and bump it out a touch

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Isn't it just great to find the component (supercharger pulley in this case) that was obviously the first piece to hit the assembly line and the rest of the car was built around it! lol

 

[onewaydave]

Sorry, receptive dyslexia. I guess thats why I haven't heard of or had pickled apples before, huh?

I am following the metal work too, though.

Dave.

 

[e-tek]

I'm so proud of my little apple tree. I planted it when my boys were born and finally this year I got it just right (pruning, Calcium, watering schedule) and got great apples - and tons of them!! I can taste the apple pies, apple crisps, apple dumplings, apple soup and especially....the apple pickes.....yum!

....and of course I can watch the Olympics while picking apples!

Then lay in the hammock on the last 2 days of my 1-month holiday. **** that went by fast....

 

[machine_punk]

Good job on getting all those little jobs done, sounds like you had a productive day!

I thought it was bad just taking everything off the front of the van's engine to get to the water pump...that engine compartment is TIGHT.

I am pleased to see you are nearing the end of the metal replacement on that car. I'm not sure I would have had the patience to work through all those problems.

YAY! New tools. I remember, not too long ago, when I was cutting 1/4" aluminum plate into parabolas with a 4-1/2" grinder and and a disc sander. I quickly got the tools to 'make it faster and easier,' and I cannot imagine doing it the 'old' way anymore.

Looks like things are going well!

M_P

 

[jarhead]

Damn you Ed and your distracting avatar's

I don't know how you get all the work done that you do...

 

[wnstwolf]

Sorry E I bought the toy's at the shop but installed myself. Gotta love step 5 of the install process, remove engine mounts. I did have the special belt adjuster tool and pulley removers though. Amazing how little rom are designed into things. Then again my 68 CJ Stang has you removing valve covers to get to the plugs.. I am sure you know that one too!
Jarhead I thought it was just me. Mrs. E sure takes a nice Picture.. Must be all those Apples!

 

[e-tek]

Sorry E I bought the toy's at the shop but installed myself. Gotta love step 5 of the install process, remove engine mounts. I did have the special belt adjuster tool and pulley removers though. Amazing how little rom are designed into things. Then again my 68 CJ Stang has you removing valve covers to get to the plugs.. I am sure you know that one too!
Jarhead I thought it was just me. Mrs. E sure takes a nice Picture.. Must be all those Apples!

I ended up putting it back together and ordering the special pulley puller. I also learned how to remove the ECU from inside the airbox...Should go much easier next time!

 

[IGO2XS]

I ended up putting it back together and ordering the special pulley puller. I also learned how to remove the ECU from inside the airbox...Should go much easier next time!

I bet you cant say "pulley puller" 5 times real fast.........

 

[e-tek]

But I bet I can "Pull my Puller" 500 x fast!!

We where talking about welding wires in another thread. Here's the wire I've been using of late: ESAB's MIG-6. Although ALL the classification numbers are the same as wires you can get cheaper (Princess Auto) it sure feels like it welds with less power and lays down much cleaner and more smoothly - especially over a tiny bit of rust/filler/paint.

Anyways, I did some final welding and metalwork on the Left quarter today, getting it ready for a skiff of kitty hair. That's all it'll need - which is MUCH less than the 1/4"+ that was on there previously.

A couple guys mentioned the use of a shrinker stretcher - for which I'm sure there are many uses - but after 30 years of doing this, I've come up with some decent methods of making parts, even if they are deemed "rudimentary" by others! For example, I find cutting out flanges and welding them to a main piece, thereby making sections from multiple peices of metal and welding them together, I can make some very exacting, compound shapes. Case in paint was this quarter panel section - check the fit I was able to get with the quarter extension piece. And this was before any tweaking or grinding (meaning some weld was holding the piece a way from the quarter making it look less perfect than it really is):

When this side was hit way back when, then mangled together, the panel flanges where lost, along with about 1/8" of quarter panel length, which was then made up with brass and filler. The piece I made has these flanges attached which added the requisite amount to the overall shape and brought the extension out to the original dimension.

Right side - that flange was missing from left side, necessitating brass and filler to build it out instead

Old Left side - tons of brass, no flanges folded over from quarter panel, lots of damage that was filled up to 1/2" thick in some spots

New Left side - new flanges take up space that was previously missing/filled, removes major damage that was filled, strengthens corner that was still broken, cracked and brazed

And here's how it looks after some initial metalwork. I'll continue to work it until it needs very little filler (just enough to block it out)

I would have been able to finish off these pieces tomorrow, but duty calls and I'll be on the links most of the day! Hopefully I get a few hours over the weekend on it.

 

[DanCo]

Da23vidgd has been reported as a spambot