Above 1200 Sq/FT Eastern Washington Workshop

[slodat]

Thanks, Matt!

The rotary phase converters can’t have any current flow on the 3 phase output when the idler is being started. Because I don’t know what future machinery I may add, I installed a three phase disconnect on the output of the RPC. This allows me to disconnect any load, start the RPC and close the disconnect. The disconnect was cheap and after reading this in American Rotary’s instructions I decided to just install it now. An example of a load that could be an issue would be a control power transformer in a machine.

The 3 phase panel and idler are in different rooms from the converter panel. I am installing the three phase panel for a few reasons: if I ever have three phase service brought in to the shop, I simply change the supply to the three phase panel and remove the RPC. No other changes would be necessary to the downstream three phase circuits. I don’t think I will do this, but it cost very little to build this option in. The wire needs to be protected on the three phase side. The panel gives these circuit breakers to protect that wire. I’m installing 20a and 30a three phase receptacles in the machinery bay and wood working room while I’m doing all this. So, I’m installing three circuits total right now including the lathe’s dedicated circuit. Lastly the panel is in the area where I think I would have most of the three phase machines. Less wire and conduit to run. And, easier runs because there’s not much else going on electrically near the three phase panel’s location. ie less obstacles to route conduit around.

 

[slodat]

Finished the phase converter installation. I decided to add a 20a and 30a three phase twist lock receptacle in the woodworking room and machinery room while I was doing all the three phase electrical work. Found I didn’t have the 20a receptacles on hand. They are on the way. This stuff can be had on eBay for a fraction of what a distributor charges.

Final configuration:





Lathe is powered up. I’d like to move it to the right a foot or two. Not sure if I can by myself. In the mean time I’m giving leveling a go. I have 12” and 18” Starrett 98’s. It’s so much easier with two levels. The eight leveling feet all broke free. That was a relief. There was plenty of crud in a few of them.

 

[slodat]

Moved the lathe by myself with the rigging bars, toe jack and machinery skates. Once I had it up on the skates it was almost effortless to roll it on the floor.









Set it back down and went to leveling. Used two Starrett 98’s to get it close. Then started cutting test bars. First was 10” of hot rolled.



Measurements:


Watched a video or two and realized this meant the tailstock end of the bed was low. Went from as near zero bubble as I could get on the 98 on the tailstock end of the ways to +1 and the +2 graduations.




Switched to some mystery stainless and got it down to 0.0028 over 5”. This was unsupported.



Pulled the live center out and went back to it. Realized I need to take a spring pass. Ultimately got it down to 0.0004 across 10.5” with the live center. Definitely could see the changing in the leveling foot in the measurements on either end of the test bar.

Final.



Looks like I have a good machine for my uses. Got a pretty nice finish with about 0.015 doc, 650 rpm, 0.005 fpr. The lathe is a pleasure to use. Crazy rigid, lots of power and the controls are right where they should be.

Not sure if I’ll use the original coolant system. Seems to be all there and the pump runs. For now the chip tray is awesome. Made a lot tonight sorting out alignment.

 

[Finallygotit]

Steven, 0.0004" in 10 inches?!?! That's awesome. I am really jealous of that beast of a lathe.


I watched the machinery movers move my Bridgeport with those skates and it is just like you said, effortless.


Coming along nicely.

 

[slodat]

Dan - I have a LOT to learn, in general, and definitely about lathes and setting one up properly. It seems that 0.0004" over 10" means my tailstock and spindle are in alignment. Next up will be the "two collar" test. Same idea, unsupported on the far end, very light cuts to see what the bed is doing. It seems to me no matter what the outcome, it will be a great machine for my uses. While I'm learning and focused on it I want to get it dialed in as good as I can.

Those skates are from an ebay seller. He did a great job with them. I couldn't have built them for what he charges when you consider all of what's involved. Highly recommended.

 

[Finallygotit]

The cost of those skates cannot be beat. I may just pick up a set. I have a feeling that when my shop is done, the Bridgeport and lathe will be moved around a bit before I settle in on a floor plan.

 

[slodat]

Dan - I agree. One back (or other) injury is not worth it. The companion tool that's a must have in my opinion if you are going to play with machinery is a proper rigging bar. It makes all the difference lifting and setting down off the skates or toe jack. The 72" 1.5" standard toe bar is what I'd recommend. Not cheap, but worth it.

 

[slodat]

Did a lot more reading about how to check the bed alignment/level. I found a very informative video on leveling and setting up a lathe. Highly recommended to anyone reading that may not already know this stuff.

Did the two collar test on a chunk of 2.5" 1018 x 10". Faced it off and turned down the middle between the two collars. The idea is you take very light cuts with slow feed so tool pressure, etc don't push the bar away at the end. Then measure. If they don't match, the lathe is cutting a taper.

I believe I followed the video correctly. Results from the two collar test on 2.5” 1018. Total stick out is 8”. Took a 0.002 pass.

Head - 2.33030
Tail - 2.33215
Δ 0.00185 over 7”



Then I decided to do a spring pass to see what happens, with three different carbide insert tools.

WC
2.32690​
2.32750​
Δ 0.0006​

VC
2.32525​
2.32515​
Δ 0.0001​


SC
2.32145​
2.32225​
Δ 0.0008​

HSS is suggested for this because it's sharper. I don't have any so this is what I came up with. All of these are on that same test bar, about 7" apart. This is plenty good enough for this new guy. I'm calling this done for now. I'm really happy with the lathe!

edited to add: when I was roughing the center I took some deeper cuts. This is 0.18 on the diameter:

 

[jar944]

Nice. I was going to mention Tom Lipton has a good video on lathe setup, but I see you found it.

 

[slodat]

That video really helped.

The local scrap yard sells “stainless” (anything a magnet doesn’t stick to and isn’t aluminum) for $1/lb and anything ferrous for $0.40/lb. I got a lot of barstock from them. A little weather worn, and good in the middle. This is about 300 pounds of material to turn into scrap and chips.

 

[slodat]

Started on my first lathe project last night. Not sure exactly what to call it... I’m making a lever handled nut for the top of the quick change tool post. It replaces the nut on top with a lever similar to the one already there for the wedge.



I cut a chunk of material from one of the rusty bars I bought from the scrap yard and got to making it smaller. Finish seems alright thus far.





I think the next step will be to bore and tap the thread that goes in place of the existing nut. Then part it off a bit long and flip it around to do a taper and clean up the top. I need some material for the handle yet. I don’t have a ball turning setup so I’m thinking I’ll make a more rectangular knob. So far so good. It’s only a 3” or so part and I have a few feet of material to turn into mistakes before I would need more material

 

[slodat]

Made some progress on the tool post handle. The tool post stud is M18 x 1.5. I found a tap and set out to bore the hole. Started with a 1/2 stub drill in the tailstock. Then the smallest boring bar I have. I only have carbide insert tooling at this point. Managed to open the hole up to the desired 0.640 without incident. Was a little nerve racking running that little 3/8 boring so far into the work piece. I must admit.. this is a ton of fun! I only took about 0.30 per pass with a super slow feedrate. I didn’t want to destroy my only small boring bar.

I picked up some 3/4 4140 for the lever and ordered a threaded ball from McMaster. Yes, I’m taking the easy way out on the ball.



Ready to tap. Borrowing a bigger tap handle from a friend in the morning.



The lathe is ugly as hell, but a complete pleasure to use.

 

[Finallygotit]

I'm enjoying watching you play with the new lathe. Once you get to using it a bit more, speeds and feeds will increase with experience. Are the saddle, cross slide and compound slide fairly solid? Have you seen a need to adjust the gibs?

 

[jar944]

Ready to tap. Borrowing a bigger tap handle from a friend in the morning.

You don't want to jump in head first and try internal threading into a blind hole?

 

[slodat]

I'm enjoying watching you play with the new lathe. Once you get to using it a bit more, speeds and feeds will increase with experience. Are the saddle, cross slide and compound slide fairly solid? Have you seen a need to adjust the gibs?

I'm having a lot of fun. It requires complete focus. I find that to be really relaxing. I'm getting a bit more comfortable with the feeds and speeds. I'm still babying it for sure. It is crazy solid. There's a lot of backlash that I'm pretty sure can be dialed out by some gib adjustment. I haven't got into it yet. The DRO makes the backlash a non-issue so far. Thanks for following along, Dan!

You don't want to jump in head first and try internal threading into a blind hole?

I absolutely do. I can't hit the 1.5mm pitch with the imperial gear box though. And, I'll have a lot better luck with a tap

 

[lilscorpion]

Ready to tap. Borrowing a bigger tap handle from a friend in the morning.

Ditch the handle, give power tapping a shot.

 

[loganb]

Ditch the handle, give power tapping a shot.

Warning...once you power tap on a lathe you will never go back. It's a trick that can be done on basically any machine with a granny low and standard assortment of tooling...which is the downside of not having justification to buy something new but makes it easier to impress friends who have a lathe and haven't done this trick!

Sent from The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[slodat]

If I had a spiral tap I would have tried power tapping. The call out on the tap package said 41/64 (0.640) drill. The ID is 0.650 In hopes it would be a little easier to run the M18 tap in. HA!



This is my setup. At first I was rotating the chuck in neutral by hand. Well.. that didn’t last long. I then used the spindle in the lowest speed and feathered the clutch. Worked well. I used lots of rapid tap cutting fluid. It didn’t take long and I could hear it really loading up. My spindle doesn’t have reverse and the tap wrench more than spans the ways. So I had to rock it out a little under a quarter turn at a time jockeying the upper gear lever in and out of gear. The tap was REALLY tight when I would first start to back it out. It’s a bottoming tap because it was the only M18x1.50 I could find. Did that 5 or so times. Parted it off and this is what I have.



I’m not sure how tall I want it. I went rather deep with the threads so I had some material I could take off the bottom should I want or need to. Seeing how much load there was on the spindle I think a tap would have slipped in the tailstock chuck.

Matched the 16 degree taper of the wedge handle reasonably well. And I domed the top while I was at it. I wish the finishes were better using the compound. I can sand it out.

 

[slodat]

Re: Eastern Washington Workshop

Last bit of progress before I have to move on to other things. Handle threads went well. Turned a bolt to see how it lines up. Looks good. I’m happy!





The handle lever will be about the same diameter and length as the wedge. That’s next.

 

[racer-john]

Looking good, slodat.

 

[rmack898]

. My spindle doesn’t have reverse

Why no reverse?

You/We need to fix this, you're not allowed to have a Pacemaker with no reverse.

 

[slodat]

Why no reverse?

You/We need to fix this, you're not allowed to have a Pacemaker with no reverse.

How does reverse work? Everything I’ve read indicates reversing the motor. I don’t have a reversing contactor.

 

[rmack898]

You're right Steven, reverse is accomplished by reversing the motor. All the Pacemakers I have seen have a 3 button panel on the front (stop Fwd, Rev) that controls the contractor panel on the back of the lathe.

If your contractor panel is missing or has been bastardized, you can reverse the motor using a drum switch. Switching any two leads (L1,L2, or L3) will reverse the motor. I would not use the drum switch to start and stop the motor, but just to swap the leads once the motor has stopped.

 

[slodat]

Re: Eastern Washington Workshop

Mac- did a bunch of reading after your post yesterday. Looks like some came with three button and some with two and a pilot light. Mine has start, stop and a light. The switch panel and contractor enclosure look factory to me. I may look at finding a reversing contactor. That 15HP motor is a beast.

 

[rmack898]

I'll take a look inside my enclosure and see if there is a schematic. Or maybe I can at least give you the data from the contactors.

 

[Steve from Socal]

My Monarch series 62 2013 was a forward only machine when I bought it. I found a NOS Cuttler Hammer reversing contactor to replace the original CH.

I have buttons for forward/reverse with pilot lights next to them, green forward/amber rev

Steve

 

[86turbodsl]

I absolutely do. I can't hit the 1.5mm pitch with the imperial gear box though. And, I'll have a lot better luck with a tap

You need the metric change gears. I have never seen them, but now with my shaper, i'm planning on making a set. When i get it figured out, i'll share with you. Nice work on the lathe so far sir!

 

[86turbodsl]

Re: Eastern Washington Workshop

Mac- did a bunch of reading after your post yesterday. Looks like some came with three button and some with two and a pilot light. Mine has start, stop and a light. The switch panel and contractor enclosure look factory to me. I may look at finding a reversing contactor. That 15HP motor is a beast.

Mine came with a scabbed in reversing contactor and a 3 button station for fwd/stop/rev. From what i read though, the oil pump DOES NOT run in reverse, so you should be careful about that. I'm not sure if any damage would happen in reverse over time. Not as nice a setup as the lathe at work, where you engage the spindle either direction depending on which way you pull the engage lever. Inside the end casting, its very clearly marked which direction the motor is supposed to be turning.

 

[slodat]

Re: Eastern Washington Workshop

Metric change gears would be great! I’m not going to worry about a reversing contractor for now.

First attempt at threading tonight. Went well. Learned a lot. Plenty more to learn. The nut went on, which felt great.





Made the handle long so I could trim it down to the desired length once the threads into the body are where I want them.

 

[Steve from Socal]

I have found that the nut holding the tool post can require a good deal of torque to prevent rotation/deflection. Often on loosening the big wrench needs a good tug.

I have CA size tool holders on 2 machines, each has a combo wrench for the nut and they get used well. I would not make a handle that is too short or unable to resist bending. My guess is I exert 70~upwards of 100 FT LB of torque on that nut depending on tool load.

Steve

 

[lilscorpion]

Re: Eastern Washington Workshop

Steven - looks great. Lots of education quick with that project, both about your machine, and lathe work. I enjoy threading but it’s slow. You can power thread off of your tail stock too. For that you need to get a floating die holder. Makes cutting and restoring threads a snap. I purchased one off of eBay but you could make your own too if you want to practice on the lathe. -

.

You are right, If you want to power tap, you need a good Chuck or the tap will slip. I’ve tried various imports and the jaws to strip over time when tapping under load. That all stopped when I got a USA Jacob’s 20N Super Chuck. It’s a manly mans chuck. I just power tapped 1 1/4-12 into DOM tubing with it in one pass, 4 1/2 deep. It does load the machine a little but cuts like butter none the less.

Can’t believe a lathe wouldn’t have reverse. Every lathe I’ve had has had reverse. Guess I was spoiled and didn’t know it. It’s a must have.

Matt

 

[slodat]

Steve - thanks for the info. Pretty sure I'll make another handle. I'll keep working this one to get things sorted out. Having a hell of a time figuring out a nice finish on the 4140. The shaft is 0.7 diameter and will be about 9" long. I'm going to up the thread size to 5/8-18. I'm completely ok with this not being what I end up using. I'm enjoying the process. I still can't believe my first threads worked! I really appreciate your insight and input. Thank you!

Matt - I have a Jacob's 18N Super Chuck. I believe the only difference is the 20N goes to 1" vs the 3/4 of my 18N. As far as reverse goes, a NEMA size 2 reversing contactor is going to cost some coin and I'm doing ok for now without it. I'm not keen on the headstock oil pump not working in reverse. I do understand I won't be running in reverse a whole lot. I also already know of several instances where I would want it. You're right.. I'll get reverse going when I find a deal on a contactor and enclosure. I've power tapped with a drill, drill press and mag drill quite a bit. The clutch on the lathe has me feeling like it's easily controllable. These big taps take some power to turn. I like that tap/die holder you linked to. Looks like a fun project. Thanks again for following along and helping me out! I appreciate it!

 

[rmack898]

Steven,
Here's pics of the contactors on my machine. There was no schematic but two contractors with a latching circuit is not to complicated to duplicate.

You can see the data plates on all the components.

If you don't have a ball turner attachment you can always make knobs that aren't spherical.

 

[slodat]

Mac - thank you for the photos!

 

[Steve from Socal]

Here is a nice reversing contactor for a good price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CUTLER-HAM...805478&hash=item2ae685b623:g:97wAAOSwEIBemLCu

 

[Steve from Socal]

Same contactor I used, it is good for my 20HP lathe on 480, your 15 HP is fine at 240

Steve

 

[slodat]

That contactor just sold. Thanks, Steve!

I’ll have to sort out a different enclosure. My lathe has the original starter enclosure and I can’t see twice the contactor fitting. Not a big deal. I think I’ll make a new switch plate similar to the original with the additional switch.

Wow. Thanks again!

I parted off the looser of the two threads I cut and gave it another go. This time I put an indicator on compound travel. This helped me with consistent depth of cut. Threads fit a bit better. I think I’m going to up it to 5/8-18. Waiting on the tap and drill.

Photos from tonight:





It feels like I’m getting plenty tight with the handle as is. The lever needs to mate up the the body better. I need the body threads another 1/4 deeper. Fun project. Continuing to learn a lot.

I received some used gang tooling for the Hardinge today. Gang tooling was a complete mystery to me, then I found this stuff for sale and now I can see how it will work. Cool stuff.








I am aware you would use these in this configuration if you could avoid it. Just visualizing how the tooling goes together.

 

[OOBER]

I don't have anything to add as I don't have a lathe, but it is making me want one. Great info!

 

[slodat]

I don't have anything to add as I don't have a lathe, but it is making me want one. Great info!

Thank you for following along!


Still could use some polishing, otherwise calling this little project a success.

 

[slodat]

Re: Eastern Washington Workshop

I bought this Engineers Black Book after seeing it in one of Adam Booth’s YouTube videos.


Highly recommended! There’s a section that shows what inserts work in the different standard holders.



It’s snowing like crazy today. Yay for federal holidays in the shop where it’s warm.