Between 265 & 485 SQ/FT Grumblebums Corner

[dlcwent]

Rod, I assume that is NOT a biting insect?? Ugly little thing ( unless you're another Green Grocer Cicada)

Good luck on the QST this coming weekend.

 

[Vieux]

And summer is here. Found this Green Grocer Cicada out the back the other morning.

View media item 65488
Cheers GB.

Interesting! The cicadas we look like this.

 

[Grumblebum]

No Dan they are harmless. I just did some quick reading and it turns out that the Green Grocer is one of the loudest insects in the world.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclochila_australasiae

Vieux, thanks for stopping in. The cicada you have looks to be a magicicada that's lives 17 years underground ? tsikada (цикада)

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Певчие_цикады

I can't find any information about broods of the magicicada in Russia, do you have any links? Interesting that they can map the brood swarm years and predict crop damage.

Cheers GB.

 

[Grumblebum]

Garage Door Insulation...

Finally some Grumblebum QST tonight after all the family were off in sleepy land.

An iced nip of scotch, some classic old Kreator on the ipad player thingy and a roll of this stuff...

View media item 65551
It's meant to be laid on the roof under metal sheeting, so I figured it was worth trying on the garage door. $85 at the big green box store and this roll will be enough to do the whole door.

R1.3 for us is about R8 in US conversions.

My door faces west, so once the afternoon summer sun gets around it just turns into an oven, and subsequently I think is why the upstairs floor gets pretty hot in the afternoon too despite being fully insulated walls/ceiling and underfloor which is the garage ceiling.

View media item 65552
After an hour or so I ended up with this section done.

View media item 65553
View media item 65554
So hopefully another evening or two and I can complete the door.

I had a look around at options for garage door insulation, but all the mobs that have anything want you to get quotes and all that, no-one wants to put up a price - bugs me a bit. There were some of the US options on ebay that ship here, but the freight is prohibitively expensive often being more than the cost of the product.

Once it's all in I'll fully re-adjust the door to counter for the extra weight. Also curious as to why the door does not have a stiffener on the second from bottom panel, anyone else with a panel door have all panels with stiffeners ? Might look into getting one for that panel as it will hold the insulation in.

The vertical edges I think I'll seal up with foil tape. The top and bottoms have tucked into the recess quite well so will see how that goes. I had thought about laying over some 3mm melamine laminated mdf but this does not look to bad at the moment so might not worry about it.

Cheers GB.

 

[dlcwent]

Rod, none of my doors have stiffeners. But that's a good question. Odd that they would leave it out on the second from the bottom. And I'm curious how much weight the insulation will add to the door? I wouldn't think a lot, or are you going to cover it with some sort of panel? I only bought one uninsulated door and ended up using blue board for to insulate it. I've thought about using luan(sp) to cover the insulation as it is very lightweight.

 

[Grumblebum]

Dan it should add about 9kgs (19lbs) of weight.

I was thinking of covering with 3mm (1/8") melamine laminated mdf panels unless I can find some vinyl panels or something. Only thing is all the horizontal panels are over 1200mm (4') wide, so just over the standard size sheets to rip down which will just mean more waste as I can only cut 2 panel sections from an 8x4 sheet.

Although I just thought now while writing this that I could add some lumex joiner strips that would work OK to let me join panels together.

Will see what I can muster up.

 

[Bob Heine]

Once it's all in I'll fully re-adjust the door to counter for the extra weight. Also curious as to why the door does not have a stiffener on the second from bottom panel, anyone else with a panel door have all panels with stiffeners ? Might look into getting one for that panel as it will hold the insulation in.

Cheers GB.

GB, you are in for a treat this summer. That insulation will make a huge difference. When the outside air temperature is 32*C (90*F), my white steel garage doors that face west have a surface temperature of 57*C (135*F). With 2-inch foam panels installed, the inside temperature stays cooler than the outside air temperature for most of the afternoon.

Those stiffeners are a mystery. I installed 3 new hurricane-rated single doors to lower my wind insurance and they have an odd stiffener setup as well. Three of the panels have two stiffeners and one has only one. In my case it's the second one down. It isn't a mistake because all three doors came that way and the instructions were quite specific. I'm not sure why but i actually followed the instructions, except the part where it recommended two people for the job (my imaginary friend only counts as 1/2 a person).

 

[Bob Heine]

I was thinking of covering with 3mm (1/8") melamine laminated mdf panels unless I can find some vinyl panels or something. Only thing is all the horizontal panels are over 1200mm (4') wide, so just over the standard size sheets to rip down which will just mean more waste as I can only cut 2 panel sections from an 8x4 sheet.

GB, when I re-did the kitchen in our last house, I used Formica laminate. For the countertops I used 1/16-inch laminate and for the cabinet doors and frames I used 1/32-inch laminate. It's available in 4-foot wide and 5-foot wide sheets in 8- 10- and 12-foot lengths. I used a carbide-tipped scoring tool to scribe a line through the face of the laminate and snap the sheet. A little file work and it was good to go. WARNING - when laminate breaks, it leaves an edge that is sharper than a razor so don't skip the filing.

 

[rmalkow2]

The door insulation is looking good GB. Glad you found something in your area that will work. I think the foil looks the part as well and when you get the whole door done uniformly it will look much different than it does now. Odd about that one missing stiffener but those really do a nice job of holding the insulation in the right place. It would be worth adding that last one to the panel where its missing just to hold the insulation and make the whole door match.
I think you are going to love the difference not only in temperature but sound insulation as well.
I had my door adjusted with the prior insulation which is very close in total weight to the new stuff I put in but now with much better R-value and cleaner looks.

Give us a weather report after you get it completed and have a few hot days to evaluate.

 

[drivesitfar]

GB: i agree with RM that after you get the rest of the insulation up you might like the look a lot better and you can stop there. i might add some aluminum strips to hole the insulation in a bit better if you are worried about it falling out or even duct tape might work just fine.

I also agree that having an insulated garage door really will help your temps inside the garage in both the summer and winter. i can tell you that my new insulated garage doors keep my garage about 20 degrees warmer in the winter and maybe 20 degrees cooler in the summer.

love the Bug pictures and thanks for taking the time to post something of interest to even guys in the frozen tundra of Russia that might have a tougher looking bug. great pics guys.

only thing i have to ask is if the PINK work station is permanent and is that for the really small projects?

 

[1/2 Cup]

GB, now you have me think I must do my doors, well done.

Regards

 

[Terrick down Under]

GB, you will love that insulation, it really does save you money over the year. I did mine with 40mm H grade polystyrene panels, the joints are under the stiffeners, because the dogs would howl too much in winter as the garage end got down to -5C inside at night during winter.

The added bonus is you get more light from the reflection of the foil backing when the door is down.
Great job.

 

[Grumblebum]

All, thanks for the comments...

Drives, this one is for you...kids play kitchen.

View media item 65564
So finished off tonight. Basically piece of ply underneath while cutting and my old level as a straight edge. I like this product. Certainly the best I've played with so far in terms of irritation from the glass, barely itchy at all and much better than the insulation I used under the house. Also easy to cut and doesn't bind up when cutting.

Used a utility knife with a long thin blade.

View media item 65565
I found the install manual for my door online today, and the 5 panel doors either ship with 4 or 5 stiffiners. I think maybe they ship them depending on the wind rating for your area perhaps ? Anyway it definitely needs an extra one now for symmetry and to hold in that row of insulation.

View media item 65566
View media item 65567
I manually lifted it up a bit, so just needs the springs tensioned up a couple quarter turns now I think, but the door is sitting about an inch too high from the last time I mucked around with it, so will have to completely untension and redo it.

Bob, good idea with the formica, I'll sus that out too, but now that it's in I don't mind the look of the sarking (foil) backing actually. Terrick is right with how much brighter it is now with the reflection.

Once it's adjusted up I need to address weather sealing to see if I can improve that. That will make it much more comfortable here and hopefully keep some of the **** from blowing in.

Cheers GB.

 

[Grumblebum]

Terrick, any chance you can show me more of your mill please ?

Cheers GB

 

[dlcwent]

Looks great GB. Maybe you should leave it uncovered. I suppose it'd add a lot of light And yeah Terrick, let's see a little more of that machine.

 

[drivesitfar]

GB: so you moved your big mill and shop stuff to put in a play area for your little ones? you just chalked up more DAD OF THE YEAR POINTS that is for certain. they are only little once and when you move your stuff back in it's place maybe you'll have an assistant in the garage wanting to learn and help.

the insulation looks great and can you tell a difference already inside your garage besides the added light from the reflection?

cheers

 

[rmalkow2]

Looks great all finished!!

 

[anth]

Nice one mate, should make a huge difference. My door is north facing but still cops a lot of heat in the afternoon. Unfortunately, being a roller door, my options for insulation are greatly reduced (and more expensive!)

 

[1/2 Cup]

Nice one mate, should make a huge difference. My door is north facing but still cops a lot of heat in the afternoon. Unfortunately, being a roller door, my options for insulation are greatly reduced (and more expensive!)

Anth, I have the same issue..................a roller door x 2

Looks great GB..

Regards

 

[Terrick down Under]

Hey guys, of you that have a roller door, we hung that foil coated bubble wrap on the inside of thick hessian carpet underlay. You just have to be careful because the door gets bigger when you roll it up!
When setting the length you will notice that when rolling it up the underlay will hang down about 6 inches when the door is up, just one of those maths things. It did not worry us at the time because the door opening was 10' high.
Maybe the foil wrap will be enough for you.???

 

[Grumblebum]

Looks great GB. Maybe you should leave it uncovered. I suppose it'd add a lot of light And yeah Terrick, let's see a little more of that machine.

Thanks, I think I'll leave it as is Dan. Just foil tape some edges, add the extra stiffener and rebalance the door.

GB: so you moved your big mill and shop stuff to put in a play area for your little ones? you just chalked up more DAD OF THE YEAR POINTS that is for certain. they are only little once and when you move your stuff back in it's place maybe you'll have an assistant in the garage wanting to learn and help.

Unfortunately Drives at this stage a mill is still on my wish list - hence why I was curious about Terricks's as that looks like something that I can probably manage to learn to use. There are some massive mills amongst the forum that is for sure.

My current plan is to replace the kids kitchen with a medium duty adjustable height workbench that the kids can use and grow up with a bit for their own projects.

the insulation looks great and can you tell a difference already inside your garage besides the added light from the reflection?

Yes today it was about 30C (86F). I did a quick and dirty measurement between outside the door and inside and about 3 degrees cooler inside - but noticably more comfortable and did not have the "baking" sensation. The foil on the insulation was warm to the touch where as the steel door panels was hot at 40C (104F) so it's definitely working and reducing the radiated heat.

There is still a bit of heat transferred between the steel joins in the panels but I don't think there is much more I can do with that. Maybe some thin foil insulation ?

It's also much quieter when just pondering in the garage too.

Looks great all finished!!

Thanks RM, and it even seems to be working

Nice one mate, should make a huge difference. My door is north facing but still cops a lot of heat in the afternoon. Unfortunately, being a roller door, my options for insulation are greatly reduced (and more expensive!)

Thanks Anth, I wonder if you could spray foam or glue in some polystyrene cut and rasped to shape the valleys on the door and line the back with some very thin foil wrap?

Anth, I have the same issue..................a roller door x 2

Looks great GB..

Regards

Thanks 1/2 Cup, I guess you have twice the experiment room to try something now ?

Hey guys, of you that have a roller door, we hung that foil coated bubble wrap on the inside of thick hessian carpet underlay. You just have to be careful because the door gets bigger when you roll it up!
When setting the length you will notice that when rolling it up the underlay will hang down about 6 inches when the door is up, just one of those maths things. It did not worry us at the time because the door opening was 10' high.
Maybe the foil wrap will be enough for you.???

How would you go with the hessian underlay cut into strips and glued into the channels ? Then the thin foil wrap. Might thin the roll back down a bit. Won't be perfect but should knock out a lot of the radiated heat...

Thanks for reading. GB

 

[1/2 Cup]

Guys, I was looking at mine roller door last night and its going to be quite a challenge to insulate it..

Regards

 

[rmalkow2]

1/2 Cup,
You may want to look at paints or coatings to keep application thin but still get some reduction in heat transfer through the door. Not sure if anyone makes affordable coatings for the home owner but any reduction in thermal transfer and increased reflection on the out side would help. The other thought is possibly some sort of retractable awning that could be lowered when sun angle is at its worst to shade the door from direct sun load.

 

[1/2 Cup]

rmalkow, I really need to do a bit of research on this one.

Thanks for the tip..

An awning is a distinct possibility as well.

Regards

 

[Bears Fan]

View media item 65566
Great job on the garage door

Grumblebums

"An iced nip of scotch, some classic old Kreator on the ipad player thingy and a roll of this stuff..."

I never took you for a heavy metal guy? Kreator

 

[Grumblebum]

Guys, I was looking at mine roller door last night and its going to be quite a challenge to insulate it..

Regards

1/2 Cup,
You may want to look at paints or coatings to keep application thin but still get some reduction in heat transfer through the door. Not sure if anyone makes affordable coatings for the home owner but any reduction in thermal transfer and increased reflection on the out side would help. The other thought is possibly some sort of retractable awning that could be lowered when sun angle is at its worst to shade the door from direct sun load.

rmalkow, I really need to do a bit of research on this one.

Thanks for the tip..

An awning is a distinct possibility as well.

Regards

Nothing like a challenge. Thermal coating is a good idea as is the awning.

How does one adjust a roller door to balance the extra weight ? I don't ever recall seeing a tensioner on one.

 

[Grumblebum]

Great job on the garage door

Grumblebums

"An iced nip of scotch, some classic old Kreator on the ipad player thingy and a roll of this stuff..."

I never took you for a heavy metal guy? Kreator

Thanks BF.

Like my wife says I'm stuck in the 80's. Lol

 

[1/2 Cup]

Nothing like a challenge. Thermal coating is a good idea as is the awning.

How does one adjust a roller door to balance the extra weight ? I don't ever recall seeing a tensioner on one.

GB, my doors have a spring to adjust the tension. The issue I have is clearance when its fully up, it will take some fiddling to get that right.

Regards

 

[Bob Heine]

For the rollup doors, I think rmalkow2 is on the right track. LizardSkin makes a spray-on thermal insulation commonly used in the automotive field. It's a water-based coating that can be sprayed with a bed-liner gun and it's sold through lots of outlets, including Summit Racing. They make it in black or white. White would be my choice for the inside of a garage door.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/liz-13012/overview/

There's also a thermal spray company doing business in Australia. Their web site doesn't mention using their products on roll-up doors but it might be a good place to start.
http://www.thermatec.com.au/

 

[anth]

Sorry to hijack your thread GB, but since we're on the subject of roller doors, I thought I'd chime in again. Last year during summer I did some research and found that an aussie company (we're a cluey bunch) has patented a roller door insulation product. I got a quote at just under $300 +postage for my door, which is 5m wide and probably about 3m tall. That price included everything needed for a DIY installation, too.

http://www.allinsulation.com.au/garage-door-insulation/

Naturally, after a lot of umming and ahhing, the weather cooled down and I didn't go ahead with it, but now that it's heating up I'm thinking about it again (funny how that works!) One thing that is stopping me (apart from my bank account), is that I'm wondering if I should spend the same amount of money on a 5m x 5m canvas sail over the driveway, which might have similar results by taking direct sun off the roller door, and also give me a shady place to wash the car?

 

[metalhead140]

I'm in this boat as well, my roller doors face north east and get blazing hot on a summers day until a bit after midday... But if the price wasn't too much more and i could make it aesthetically pleasing then I think I'm inclined to install a carport in front of the garage instead. 2 birds 1 stone, or something like that? I quite like your canvas sail idea too anth...

 

[Grumblebum]

GB, my doors have a spring to adjust the tension. The issue I have is clearance when its fully up, it will take some fiddling to get that right.

Regards

For the rollup doors, I think rmalkow2 is on the right track. LizardSkin makes a spray-on thermal insulation commonly used in the automotive field. It's a water-based coating that can be sprayed with a bed-liner gun and it's sold through lots of outlets, including Summit Racing. They make it in black or white. White would be my choice for the inside of a garage door.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/liz-13012/overview/

There's also a thermal spray company doing business in Australia. Their web site doesn't mention using their products on roll-up doors but it might be a good place to start.
http://www.thermatec.com.au/

Sorry to hijack your thread GB, but since we're on the subject of roller doors, I thought I'd chime in again. Last year during summer I did some research and found that an aussie company (we're a cluey bunch) has patented a roller door insulation product. I got a quote at just under $300 +postage for my door, which is 5m wide and probably about 3m tall. That price included everything needed for a DIY installation, too.

http://www.allinsulation.com.au/garage-door-insulation/

Naturally, after a lot of umming and ahhing, the weather cooled down and I didn't go ahead with it, but now that it's heating up I'm thinking about it again (funny how that works!) One thing that is stopping me (apart from my bank account), is that I'm wondering if I should spend the same amount of money on a 5m x 5m canvas sail over the driveway, which might have similar results by taking direct sun off the roller door, and also give me a shady place to wash the car?

1/2, BH, anth - it's sounds like the roller doors are going to be a bit of a challenge.

Don't worry about hijack anth, it's all on topic as they say so cool by me

I thought that seemed expensive there, just had a quick look at the polyair stuff, but I guess you are paying for the thin profile and light weight. Right up there in price. I searched for shed insulation which threw up a few foil based products.

http://www.bradfordinsulation.com.au/home-insulation/walls/polyair/polyair-unicell-white

Now that shade sail is a good idea too, I might have to look at that. My door is also about 5mts wide but about 2.4 high. (made it as high as I could to get the truck in with roof racks on)

Thanks for posting. GB.

 

[Grumblebum]

Kaizen foam organisers...

So over on Old Iron Farmers thread there has been talk of polishing copper pipes as we do...

Then 1/2 Cup suggested we look over at Matts Obsessed Garage thread. But then I found the pre cursor Temporary Garage thread and when I got to page 11 I found this Kaizen foam organiser stuff to line draws and use as cut outs for tools etc.

So that led me to finding it here in Aussie land from Timbecon

So now I have a couple of the 30mm thick Kaizen sheets headed my way to try out.

I'm not really sure who to blame for that purchase

GB

 

[Lyndon]

Rod

Well b*gger me. I've been looking for that Kaizen stuff out here for ages.

Do you mind pm'ing me with the site and the prices. I need it, really bad. . . .

Oh, and that Huot box I have in my cart at Amazon isn't the Huot one at all.... It's this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LDH3JC/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Heaps cheaper than the Huot one (but not metal, obviously). But it fits my price range. . . .

But I want 2 more of these as well, and they won't ship to Australia:

https://www.amazon.com/Olsa-Tools-Magnetic-Premium-Organizer/dp/B01LR8XYCO/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1481893062&sr=1-1&keywords=Olsa+blue+hex+bit+storage

I already got 2 of them from Amazon, and the E-bissle site that sells them is a lot, read A LOT, more expensive....

Anyway, I'll call you after Christmas to discuss these..

Lyndon
Why am I still up??? Oh yeah - it's Friday!!!

 

[drivesitfar]

GB: This is GJ at it's best!!!!

Kaizen foam organisers...

So over on Old Iron Farmers thread there has been talk of polishing copper pipes as we do...

Then 1/2 Cup suggested we look over at Matts Obsessed Garage thread. But then I found the pre cursor Temporary Garage thread and when I got to page 11 I found this Kaizen foam organiser stuff to line draws and use as cut outs for tools etc.

So that led me to finding it here in Aussie land from Timbecon

So now I have a couple of the 30mm thick Kaizen sheets headed my way to try out.

I'm not really sure who to blame for that purchase

GB

 

[Grumblebum]

Lyndon, the blue underlined bold words are all the links to the relevant sites - took ages to do that on the iPad

30mm was $25 a sheet of which I ordered 4 sheets. You are welcome to steal a sheet to play with if you like. I guess you will do your kinchrome box with it ?

Would the plastic Amazon tray set be too "light duty" for drill bits ?

GB.

 

[Lyndon]

Lyndon, the blue underlined bold words are all the links to the relevant sites - took ages to do that on the iPad

30mm was $25 a sheet of which I ordered 4 sheets. You are welcome to steal a sheet to play with if you like. I guess you will do your kinchrome box with it ?

Would the plastic Amazon tray set be too "light duty" for drill bits ?

GB.

Rod

When I saw your post I was on my iPad, but touching your "blue" bits didn't go anywhere. When I got back on the computer I was able to go to the links.

Thanks for your generous offer, but I've ordered 2 x 30mm sheets and a knife.

That should be enough initially to do 4 of my drawers.

Lyndon
Catching up . .

Pity they don't stock the same colours like they do stateside, the 2 layer one in grey and white would be good to get the real shadows....

 

[Grumblebum]

I'm in this boat as well, my roller doors face north east and get blazing hot on a summers day until a bit after midday... But if the price wasn't too much more and i could make it aesthetically pleasing then I think I'm inclined to install a carport in front of the garage instead. 2 birds 1 stone, or something like that? I quite like your canvas sail idea too anth...

I'd vote for a carport given the chance. My garage orientation to the driveway and second story above the garage does not have enough room.

Would be great to have a spot out of the weather for cars and to wash though.

 

[Grumblebum]

Garage door insulation observation...

So it got pretty warm today and when outside late this afternoon (around 5pm) I thought I'd do a temperature check to see the difference inside the garage to outside as it felt very comfortable inside.

I think i'll believe my fluke meter over the cheap $2 one.

So let's say 29C (84.2F) outside...

View media item 65848
...and 24.2C (75.5F) inside

View media item 65849
hence 4.8C cooler inside.

Conditions outside when I measured were starting to become overcast, so no direct light hitting the door at that time.

Will continue to see how we fair, but so far I think the door insulation is doing it's thing.

Still need to adjust the door - hopefully a couple of hours to do that tomorrow.

Cheers GB

 

[metalhead140]

Great result!