hacksaws?

[AntiqueBen]

Just found this ad in a 1947 Millers Falls catalog on the no. 84 hacksaw.

 

[Beerhippie]

That handle looks like it oughta' have lights in it!

 

[d42jeep]

This No. 84 came with my Cabin and still gets used occasionally. Nice hacksaw.
-Don

 

[AntiqueBen]

This No. 84 came with my Cabin and still gets used occasionally. Nice hacksaw.
-Don

Nice no. 84 Don. I like the sturdy construction of this saw. I will definitely use it.

 

[B Halverson]

This monster, shown next to a standard size hacksaw for comparison, was made to cut railroad rails in half out in the field back in the day before there were a lot of power tools to do it, and is called a "rail saw". They were in the catalogs of common saw manufacturers, this one was made by Atkins and was once owned by the Erie Railroad. Some were sold with a handle on each end.

 

[B Halverson]

I like this one, I wonder where I put it after I took these photos. Check out that unique tensioning mechanism. I also like the built-in ruler.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Check out that unique tensioning mechanism.

Patented (1,382,448) in 1921 by G.H. Wilkins of Greenfield, Mass. As I said in the K-D thread when I posted my example there, I have not been able to determine if K-D licensed it or bought him out, but they used his design until 1947. I also admire the use of the large "K-D" raised lettering as a handle grip pattern. It appears in the 1934 and the 1942 catalogs, but is replaced by a similar but newer convertible design, patented by Kulp in 1946, in the 1948 catalog. I posted photos of both the early and later models together in the K-D thread, linked here. @tombell572 has one of the early models as well. His is posted in this thread. See #126.

 

[B Halverson]

Was in the terribly cluttered basement today trying to get through a rainy day and spied this in a pile of tool rubble. I wondered if it might be a K-D item and that is what it turned out to be once I got it closer to my eyes. An interesting design, but what struck me was that it was marked "Patent applied for", which means it may be an earlier example of it's type. I shot these photos of it and back into the basement it went.

 

[B Halverson]

What is probably one of Miller's Falls oldest running hacksaws, the "No.6". I picked up three examples so far over the years, each a bit different, but apparently it was in production for many decades so surely went through many changes. The patent drawing gotten from Vintage Machinery dotorg has the note that known examples do not match the patent drawings, but I am guessing that originally they did, but the saws were quickly and constantly updated. The unique thing about the saws may be the notches in the frame of the saw to let it fit blades of many different lengths. One example I have is faintly marked with the November 10th, 1885 patent date, the other two examples show their younger age with cheaper-to-manufacture parts and features compared to the oldest example.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

An interesting design, but what struck me was that it was marked "Patent applied for", which means it may be an earlier example of its type.

No "may be" about it, it was made between Sep 24, 1946, when K-D submitted their patent application, and Nov 21, 1950, when it was granted. They first show up in the 1948 catalog. I posted an example with the patent (2531135) stamped on it, patent excerpts, and K-D catalog excerpts back in 2022, linked here. Note that it has the same model number as the older K-D convertible hacksaw frame, with a different adjusting mechanism, that you just posted back on October 9, in post #406, just a few posts above. If you're interested in further information, in reply to that October 9 post (#407, just a few posts above), where I gave you information (patents, catalog excerpts, etc) on the c. 1921-1946 model, I mentioned the 1947 replacement model, I mentioned that I owned both of them, and I posted a link to more info and photos of them both together.

 

[B Halverson]

Note that it has the same model number as the older K-D convertible hacksaw frame, with a different adjusting mechanism, that you just posted back on October 9, in post #406, just a few posts above.

It is interesting that both variants with the same patent number do both use screws bearing on the main frame to tension the blade, they just moved the screw from the top to the bottom on the later one, and they dropped the nice ruler that was stamped into the frame. I can see how the later version might be better in the respect that it does not have the adjuster on top to catch on things in tight places, but it's small diameter adjuster seems to me as if it would take more effort to operate than the adjusters on most common hacksaws. I don't think I ever had to use either of these saws, so I will have to put that on my to-do list. I like that old saws usually attract zero interest at estate and garage sales, so they can usually be had for less than a song-and-dance.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It is interesting that both variants with the same patent number do both use screws bearing on the main frame to tension the blade, they just moved the screw from the top to the bottom on the later one, and they dropped the nice ruler that was stamped into the frame.

Agreed. More interesting still that Kulp did not own the first patent. They were a licensee. So they had a few (17) years to think about it.

I can see how the later version might be better in the respect that it does not have the adjuster on top to catch on things in tight places, but it's small diameter adjuster seems to me as if it would take more effort to operate than the adjusters on most common hacksaws.

Neither one tickles the 'simple but elegant' funny bone in this old engineer's evaluative heart. But complex tools, even overly sophisticated, often have more appeal as collectibles, and that's true of these for me.

I like that old saws usually attract zero interest at estate and garage sales, so they can usually be had for less than a song-and-dance.

Or "for peanuts," as I like to say, which is why I prefer flea markets.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

As I was saying on the Screwdrivers thread, I've been on a research binge, and in the process of reading very early (c. 1950, 1951) issues of PS: The Preventive Maintenance Monthly magazine, I ran across a series of these recurring "Hand Tool Clinic" features. This one is pretty funny.



You can see the others in the Pliers and Screwdrivers threads.

If you're not familiar with PS, the US Army recruited a young cartoonist named Will Eisner (The Spirit, Blackhawk, others) into the Ordnance Dept during WWII, and from Aberdeen Proving Grounds, where all vehicular maintenance and training was HQ'd, he led a team as a warrant officer in making preventive maintenance more enjoyable (and more effective!) to mechanics by publishing mimeographed flyers in cartoon form, featuring his loveable loser character, Joe Dope. During WWII, they were published in Army Motors, but in 1950, Joe, Connie Rodd (pinup model in uniform), and Half-Mast McCannick (letter columnist), they became their own publication as a "postscript" (hence the name). Eisner would go on to become one of the most famous and influential cartoonists in history, including credit for the very first "graphic novel" in 1978. The Eisner Award is the highest annual honor in comics, and it's given at the Eisner Comic Books Hall of Fame.

 

[Eric Brown]

Anybody know this company? I just bought a hacksaw that is marked "S&I Co Pat Pend Springfield MA". I bought it because I also have two expansive bits marked "S&I Co". The expansive bits are identical to ones that James Swan made. Internet search came up with a "S.I. Never-Break" wrench but no other information. I've also searched DataMP.org, Alloy Artifacts, and the book American Wrench Makers 1830-1930. Nothing. The hacksaw has an interesting feature for adjusting the frame to different sizes using a simple pin/hole design.

Here are some pictures. Any help is appreciated.

 

[four.cycle]

S. & I. / S. & I. Co., 55-57 Governor St., Springfield, MA / "Never Break" "Reliable" "Rival" /

postcard. not a lot of information but confirms name of company

 

[Eric Brown]

S. & I. / S. & I. Co., 55-57 Governor St., Springfield, MA / "Never Break" "Reliable" "Rival" /

postcard. not a lot of information but confirms name of company

Thanks. Has a postmark of 1913 so that helps too.

 

[four.cycle]

July 10 1907 "Hardware"
"Springfield, Mass.—The S. & I. Co. recently erected and equipped a plant for the manufacture of metal specialties to order,
also stampings, punches, dies and special tools, and it is now in complete operation."

 

[Eric Brown]

July 10 1907 "Hardware"
"Springfield, Mass.—The S. & I. Co. recently erected and equipped a plant for the manufacture of metal specialties to order,
also stampings, punches, dies and special tools, and it is now in complete operation."

Very interesting. Thanks. Wonder who S&I were?

 

[four.cycle]

^ The question remains unanswered until such time as some snippet out of a contemporary magazine or trade journal turns up more evidence.
It's a very slow process picking through them one page at a time looking for clues.

 

[RTM]

Well, just to stir **** into the fire, I used USPTO to search for patents for hacksaw and Springfield.

The specific piece i am looking at is the double split on the frame back to match Eric's pic, here are some is an option (1) this is from 1912-04-16

US1023216A - Hacksaw-frame. - Google Patents

This patent is not in DATAMP

Trying to go back from the address of 55-57 Governor

gives me a Chilton hit, and its still only S&I

The Automobile Trade Directory

www.google.com

 

[Eric Brown]

Well, just to stir **** into the fire, I used USPTO to search for patents for hacksaw and Springfield.

The specific piece i am looking at is the double split on the frame back to match Eric's pic, here are some is an option (1) this is from 1912-04-16

US1023216A - Hacksaw-frame. - Google Patents

This patent is not in DATAMP

Trying to go back from the address of 55-57 Governor

gives me a Chilton hit, and its still only S&I

The Automobile Trade Directory

www.google.com

Thanks. Sometimes all hacksaw look similar. I see features in the patent but not how the frame locks into place. We all know sometimes the item doesn't always match the patent. While it matches the Springfield MA. the patent was assigned to somebody else, not S&I.

I did find a ad showing they made a Never-Break screwdriver.

 

[RTM]

And just to further muddy the waters, S & I also made ice picks, at 53 Governor St. In 1915. A new house was built at this address in 1925,

Springfield city directory, and business advertiser : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Title varies: 1883/84-1887/88 City of Springfield, Chicopee, Chicopee Falls and West Springfield directory. 1888-1908 Springfield directory, including...

archive.org

Let’s go to 1911, hmm, might be an earlier patent, does this break 2x on the back.

Western New England

books.google.com

 

[RTM]

July 10 1907 "Hardware"
"Springfield, Mass.—The S. & I. Co. recently erected and equipped a plant for the manufacture of metal specialties to order,
also stampings, punches, dies and special tools, and it is now in complete operation."

Very interesting. Thanks. Wonder who S&I were?

^ The question remains unanswered until such time as some snippet out of a contemporary magazine or trade journal turns up more evidence.
It's a very slow process picking through them one page at a time looking for clues.

P. S. Stauffer and R. T. Ives

And I swear I’ve looked this up before, just don’t know where I posted it, and for who.

The New England business directory and gazetteer : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

v. : 26-29 cm

archive.org

And yeah, we’re having a Rockin’ New Years Eve here, I just woke from a nap to continue this search, finding volume Pt. 4

 

[RTM]

And once you get to the page above, things get easier.

Engineering Directory ...

books.google.com

Won’t screen print but say founded in 1906 w 50k capital F Raymond Ives, no new info not above.

The New England Business Directory and Gazetteer for ...

books.google.com

This adds Ralph T Ives, should be Pt 2 from above post.

The New England business directory and gazetteer : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

v. : 26-29 cm

archive.org

 

[RTM]

More names

Metal Worker, Plumber and Steam Fitter

books.google.com

Patents

US787592A - Sash-cord fastener. - Google Patents

Leads to

Google Patents

Search and read the full text of patents from around the world with Google Patents, and find prior art in our index of non-patent literature.

patents.google.com

 

[d42jeep]

Sometimes I‘m just blown away by the research skills shown on this site! Happy New Year everyone.
-Don

 

[Eric Brown]

More names

Metal Worker, Plumber and Steam Fitter

books.google.com

Patents

US787592A - Sash-cord fastener. - Google Patents

Leads to

Google Patents

Search and read the full text of patents from around the world with Google Patents, and find prior art in our index of non-patent literature.

patents.google.com

This is all great info. Thank you all for taking the time to find. When I put this info into the auger list you will be given some credit.

 

[RTM]

Thanks. Sometimes all hacksaw look similar. I see features in the patent but not how the frame locks into place. We all know sometimes the item doesn't always match the patent.

OK, this looks closer. The pins & holes (9 & 10) are closer to what you have

US990839A - Blade-clamp for saw-frames. - Google Patents

This patent is not in DATAMP

 

[Eric Brown]

OK, this looks closer. The pins & holes (9 & 10) are closer to what you have

US990839A - Blade-clamp for saw-frames. - Google Patents

Yes, you are on to something. The pins and holes seem the same. Thanks.

 

[four.cycle]

Rutherford Coffron
b. Mar 17 1890 Washington DC
d. Aug 3 1924 Detroit, MI

patents
US 990839 May 2 1911
GB 191109138A (with Arthur Cowsill) Jun 6 1911

Arthur Cowsill was a builder in Washington DC.

I'm not seeing the connection to Stauffer or Ives here.

 

[Eric Brown]

Rutherford Coffron
b. Mar 17 1890 Washington DC
d. Aug 3 1924 Detroit, MI

patents
US 990839 May 2 1911
GB 191109138A (with Arthur Cowsill) Jun 6 1911

Arthur Cowsill was a builder in Washington DC.

I'm not seeing the connection to Stauffer or Ives here.

I'm thinking that S&I were not the owners of the patents, and they were simply a small manufacturer that were willing to produce for others. Their line is a hodgepodge of items. No real focus. There is no evidence so far that they relocated before the house was built on their property in 1925. So thinking they were only in business from about 1906 up to 1925. Doesn't sound long, less than twenty years, but that is still a long time. Perhaps their building burned down or something? I contacted the Springfield Historical Society asking for help, but not holding my breath.

 

[RTM]

. There is no evidence so far that they relocated before the house was built on their property in 1925. So thinking they were only in business from about 1906 up to 1925. Doesn't sound long, less than twenty years, but that is still a long time. Perhaps their building burned down or something?.

In poking around for addresses, seems like in 1920 someone was at one of the three (53-55-57) in that year.

I was gonna poke into the S&I years of operation later, but would love for someone else to go down that rabbit hole.

 

[four.cycle]

^ That's as far as I have time to chase it, because I am leaving in a couple hours. I have "Coffron" in a completely separate folder until such time as somebody finds some connection there, which I am just not finding anywhere.
new updated list just uploaded Wed Jan 01 12:37:15 2025
(just in case some idiot kills me on the highway)

Have to go cook dinner for Mom. She apparently bought a mess of oysters and doesn't trust anyone else to cook them properly.

 

[RTM]

In poking around for addresses, seems like in 1920 someone was at one of the three (53-55-57) in that year.

I was gonna poke into the S&I years of operation later, but would love for someone else to go down that rabbit hole.

Just a quick glance at google books shows them 1908 - 18, so plus or minus a year or so is a good guess.

Google Search

From 1908

 

[Eric Brown]

In poking around for addresses, seems like in 1920 someone was at one of the three (53-55-57) in that year.

I was gonna poke into the S&I years of operation later, but would love for someone else to go down that rabbit hole.

Just a quick glance at google books shows them 1908 - 18, so plus or minus a year or so is a good guess.

Google Search

From 1908

My searches so far dealing with the men's names seems to indicate that Ives may have died in 1913. I may have looked at the wrong Ives though, there were a lot of them. I did find a hacksaw for sale that I bought that looks similar to the top of the frame in the Coffron patent. It does not have the fancy clamp, just the holes and pins that match. It has some markings, but will need to receive it and clean it up to maybe read.

Here are pictures:





It does seems to match the ad shown earlier for S&I.

 

[Eric Brown]

Comparisons of the two different frame tops. They look very similar except the first one (S&I) has one pivot point at each end and the Coffron has an extra pin at each end. Even same number of holes.

 

[four.cycle]

^ So... you have that other one ordered and it's on it's way now? Am I understanding that correctly?

 

[Eric Brown]

^ So... you have that other one ordered and it's on it's way now? Am I understanding that correctly?

Actually, just bought both. Add to my collection.

 

[Eric Brown]

Was looking at my Clemson Star #20 hacksaw and comparing it to the patent. Mine is similar, but the patent shows a knob sticking out at the lever pivot and mine doesn't have (#30 on patent). In addition, where the lever pivots the patent shows short plates for the pivot and mine are long. The patent indicates that the pivot pin can be removed using the knob. What I discovered was that the long plates on mine are actually springs. The pin is attached to just one side, the other side has a slightly larger hole. It's possible to spread the plates apart and remove the lever. The frame can then be pulled out and another position hole is there. This allows either a 10" or 12" blade to be used.
Guessing they changed the design to reduce the chances of losing the pin. My lever does have the 2308354 patent on it.

 

[genog]

Here's an interesting looking Stanley
I picked it up at the Flea Market from a real nice seller.....I have more than plenty hacksaws, but I just had to buy something from him