Heat at last

[MongoTom]

We rebuilt our garage in 2012 (www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130860 and http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160397) and have since added a four post lift.

This last December we finally added the boiler and now have heat. The system looks like this:

If that link doesn't work, you can go here to see the photo or download it in full size: https://tomsnewgarage.shutterfly.com/pictures/71

I wanted simple, so it's an electric system, not gas. The boiler is an Electro Mini-Boiler Radiant Series, model EMB-S-5, 240v, 4500 watts, 15000 BTU. The garage is 25X25 inside, with 2X6 construction and open cell foam insulation. There's 2" of insulation under the floor.

So, you want to know the facts. What did it cost to build, does it do the job and what does it cost to run? With assistance from someone who knew what they were doing, it cost me a bit under $3,000. I have the thermostat set to keep the slab between 55 and 60 degrees. The boiler is set at it's lowest setting or 90 degree maximum. At those settings, the air temp in the garage has remained in the 50's and it's quite comfortable when working in just coveralls. This has been the coldest, nastiest winter in the 30+ years that I've lived in Ann Arbor. Many days in single digits, and many wind chills far below zero. Our gas bill was 30% greater than a year ago at this time and was the highest we've ever seen. It's been cold! As cold as I hope any month ever gets here. So, how much to run it? My electric bill for the last month was $390 and that was 142% higher than a year ago (maybe $160?). I figure for this one awful month, it cost me a bit over $200 to run. Barring the start of another ice age, that should be the worst case scenario.

Am I happy with it? Absolutely. Would I do anything differently? I don't think so. Let me know if I've left out any important information or if you want to know more about the system.

 

[custom1]

Great info. People might be interested to know the cost and source of each component. Please keep us updated on the cost to run it each month as the weather gets warmer. Also there is a thread for pics and details of these systems that you might want to post it in(or at least a link to this thread) here.....

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49557

 

[Hpozzuoli]

Wow. That sure is a compact and clean set up. Well done

 

[anthony666]

did you pipe reverse return on purpose ???

 

[MongoTom]

There are multiple backflow preventers between the system and the water line. The guy who helped me felt that the system would lose some fluid over time and the water line connection would keep it topped off even though that would dilute the antifreeze over time. There's a valve in there as well and I think I'll just keep it closed off until the low water indicator complains. The inspector hasn't come around yet and they may ask us to separate them physically. We'll see.

 

[anthony666]

There are multiple backflow preventers between the system and the water line. The guy who helped me felt that the system would lose some fluid over time and the water line connection would keep it topped off even though that would dilute the antifreeze over time. There's a valve in there as well and I think I'll just keep it closed off until the low water indicator complains. The inspector hasn't come around yet and they may ask us to separate them physically. We'll see.

i guess that's a no then .. reverse return is when the first pipe going into the floor is the last one to come out .. it balances the system perfectly without fooling around with flow valves etc

 

[jlckmj]

Looks great. As the other poster said, when you get a chance, post a picture on the other thread also so people can see that simplicity works.

Jim

 

[MongoTom]

Oh sorry, I'm not familiar with the terminology. No, there are 3 separate loops, each about 300' of 5/8" PEX. It took roughly 10 gal of 50% antifreeze to fill each loop.

Yes, I posted the link to this on the other thread.

 

[Highbeam]

A few questions please

1) The black wired device, is that a low level shutoff sensitive to pressure? Kills the boiler?

2) The boiler appears to be the brains of the operation. It takes a low voltage thermostat signal and turns on the boiler and pump?

3) Why such a small boiler? I suppose it is working so that's good but 4500 watts is the same as a residential water heater. Did you do a load calc before buying.

4) What did the boiler cost?

Thanks! I'm asking because this is my system right now.... 50 amps in the disco waiting for a boiler.

 

[Highbeam]

That boiler is 780$ from ecomfort.com with free shipping. Nice! I like how the bubbles can rise out of it.

 

[cork]

That's a nice looking setup. I'm a little surprised at the electricity cost, do you know what you pay per kW/hr?

 

[MongoTom]

Some answers...
1. I believe the low water shutoff is a Safgard 1100. It interrupts power to the boiler when a low water condition is detected. I don't know if it's measuring pressure. This system is running at 12 psi.
2. Yep, the boiler is the key. It takes the low voltage input from the thermostat and the boiler controls the pump.
3. The garage is extremely well insulated. The first winter I had no boiler, so I put one of those oil filled radiators in the garage. That's 700 watts and at its lowest setting and the air temp never fell below 40. The companies that gave me estimates wanted to use 25,000 BTU and 27,000 BTU boilers and I thought that was nuts. Some research I did on my own indicated I could heat it with 12,000 BTU to the level I wanted. I also read that it's more efficient for the boiler to work, not sit most of the time, so lots of overkill isn't desirable. I can tell you that this boiler does not run all the time.
4. Yep, about $800 delivered.
5. Electricity here is between 13 and 14 cents/kWH. I think about a nickel of that is "delivery fee" or something. Like I said above, this winter has been a total *****. Since the system went live in mid-December, we've had exactly 12 days above freezing and 18 below zero. Our normal average high for the period is 31 and average low is 18. We're WAY below that. I'd like to say the next bill will be much lower, but it's below zero today and not expected to be north of freezing until sometime next week. Like I said, we're experiencing a worst case scenario.

Oh, I should also mention that we've already gotten more snow so far than Buffalo averages in a year. That means that our solar panels have been out of action for most of the last 2 months or our electric bill would be lower. Like I said, worst possible case.

 

[CanadaBoy]

Mongo, looks like the setup we will eventually use in a 24X26 across the river from you. We are thinking gas tho because that would be about twice that to run here where gas is about 1/4 that cost. I know what u mean about the cold and today when our record has been 70 it was well below zero F. We will likely put in an old furnace unit till we can invest the capital as well as that setup in gas is about $4000. Really clean setup tho!

Did u have trouble with inspectors with mounting the unit next to electrical? I am planning that part now and have to either move the box across a door or not worry about it.

 

[MongoTom]

Gas would certainly be cheaper to operate, but running the line, venting, etc. seemed like a lot more complexity to me.

As for the inspector, I'll let you know after he comes next week. I sure hope he's okay with it!

 

[anthony666]

1. I believe the low water shutoff is a Safgard 1100. It interrupts power to the boiler when a low water condition is detected. I don't know if it's measuring pressure. This system is running at 12 psi.

it's like a relay, the control side puts a small current through the water in the system .. no water = no control current = no power to the system

 

[Highbeam]

it's like a relay, the control side puts a small current through the water in the system .. no water = no control current = no power to the system

So there's a plug or port that is used for the low water sensor? Or do you interrupt a thermostat line?

 

[MongoTom]

It plugs into an interrupt in the boiler.

 

[Highbeam]

I really like the boiler setup. Not much more money than a non-boiler water heater, bubbles can rise out, a one gallon tank inside and 20 year warranty. Dang thing is heavy too.