Homemade electrolysis. What do you use?

[torqueman2002]

After reading most of the posts, I am about to build an electrolysis tank and a 5-gallon bucket.

I'm going to use graphite for the tank (rubber maid type storage tub) and rebar for the bucket.

I see that rebar tie wire is recommended for connections and hanging pieces in the 'soup'.

I have lots of 16ga. 'mechanics wire'.

Will that work?

I got lucky, we have some Sodium Carbonate for the hot tub, so this is a very low cost project.

 

[Outlawmws]

As long as the wire is iron/steel, and not plated, it's fine.

 

[torqueman2002]

Thanks Outlaw,

The spool of mechanics wire I have might just be plated, it is shiny.

I'm going to pick-up some rebar tie wire, it can be used as 'mechanics' wire.

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: would using copper wire instead of baling or steel wire on the anodes be better and OK to use if the copper wasn't sitting in the soup (electrolysis water)?

DOC (TM): did you read where the guys are saying that the Electrolysis tanks should be outside and not in your garage?

 

[bagged89s10]

As long as copper is only used to tie the anodes together outside of the tank, you should be fine.

 

[Craptain]

I use old coat hangers. They are strong enough, right material and cheap.
As for tank being outside. Mine is inside but in a large well ventilated area. The gas given off is (almost) insignificant if the current is kept low, which will also produce a better result.

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[Alchymist]

ALL: would using copper wire instead of baling or steel wire on the anodes be better and OK to use if the copper wasn't sitting in the soup (electrolysis water)?

DOC (TM): did you read where the guys are saying that the Electrolysis tanks should be outside and not in your garage?

Steel wire of most any kind except stainless for leads to anode and parts. Coat hangers, bailing wire, whatever.

Here's another hint - depending on your water source, sometimes nothing needs to be added. I get great results with water straight from our well. Try it straight, then if you can't get the current, add something.

 

[torqueman2002]

.... DOC (TM): did you read where the guys are saying that the Electrolysis tanks should be outside and not in your garage?

Drives - Thanks, I did read where some guys have theirs outside.

I'm excited about putting some old iron (ie: Parker 52 swivel jaw) into the soup.

 

[Craptain]

No need to be anxious. It is the easiest and safest way to clean up the rust.

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[torqueman2002]

.... Here's another hint - depending on your water source, sometimes nothing needs to be added. I get great results with water straight from our well. Try it straight, then if you can't get the current, add something.

I haven't read anyone mention distilled water, plus sodium carbonate.

I wonder if that would make a difference and would it be worth the trouble/cost?

 

[torqueman2002]

No need to be anxious. It is the easiest and safest way to clean up the rust.

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I re-read my post and decided I was excited, not nervous.

 

[Craptain]

Distilled water would be counter productive. It is the impurities (soda or whatever) that makes it work.

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[Outlawmws]

No need for Distilled water.

As long as the copper is not in the soup it will work fine, however, you still have steel/iron to copper dissimilar metals, so if you go this route use some dieelectric grease.

 

[drivesitfar]

Outlaw: makes sense. sort of like putting copper plumbing pipe into a galvanized steel one where you have to have a special fitting or it will rust out that joint eventually. I've got plenty of steel wire and thought maybe the copper would keep the charge up, but since it's such a little charge probably best to keep steel with steel anodes.

maybe copper might work best with graphite. did you ever get a chance to try a graphite E bath yet?

DOC: you'll be fine and find a nice spot out of the dogs area to cook some old iron. i'd love to see that 100+ year old parker without the pink paint on it.

good luck

 

[torqueman2002]

....
DOC: .... i'd love to see that 100+ year old parker without the pink paint on it.

good luck

Yup, that's the 1st one to go into the soup. Tomorrow, I hope.

Oh - RED, it's RED.

 

[drivesitfar]

Doc: well at least the handle is RED on your PINK old Parker. if you get the E tank set up and working can you post a few pictures and maybe a full view shot so we can see how it looks outside your house?

I've heard some of the guys rarely empty their E tanks and don't usually ad much chemical either so let us know what works best for you. they do hose or pressure wash or wire wheel off the anodes after several uses though.

good luck

 

[torqueman2002]

I tried the vise in the 5-gallon bucket, but it was not a great fit.

Instead, I'm using a medium plastic tub, rebar, solid 12 ga. copper wire, 3/4" copper pipe, with rebar tie wire for electrical connections, and a 'soup' of water saturated with sodium carbonate.

The pink red 12 ga. wire loops around all 4 rebar and loops back to the 1st rebar. The insulation is stripped and tightly wrapped around each bar 2-3 times with a hose clamp to help keep it in good contact with the rebar.

3/4" copper pipe will be the 'buss bar' the de-rusting parts will 'hang' from by rebar tie wire. No copper will be in contact with the 'soup'.

I am looking forward to trying this method for rust and paint removal, and to help free-up the bolt/pin that is holding the swivel jaw on the dynamic jaw.

Tomorrow I will mix-up the 'soup', attach the charger, and sit back while it simmers.

Thanks to everyone and all the freely given advise.

 

[Roseann908z]

I'm going to pick-up some rebar tie wire, it can be used as 'mechanics' wire.

 

[drivesitfar]

DOC: some of the guys let their vises stay in the bubbling soup for days on a low setting. all depends on how long you can leave it set up in the spot you put it. looks great to me. nice work and looking forward to the red/pink Parker getting naked and working as designed.

cheers

 

[G20-Budo]

DOC - Great job on your setup. Looks like a very stable/smart way to make the electrolysis tank. Mine wasn't as solid made. Looking forward to seeing your results.

 

[Fretters]

3/4" copper pipe will be the 'buss bar' the de-rusting parts will 'hang' from by rebar tie wire. No copper will be in contact with the 'soup'.

Copper dangling in the solution is no problem if it's on the cathode side. It's only on the anode where it's to be avoided. Same applies with any of the connections on the cathode side though. They'd eventually just corrode away if in the solution, hence why all anode connections are made above the water line. You can merrily suspend pieces on copper wire from the bus bar though if you feel the urge, without worry. You can even clean copper & copper alloys in the vat. You're not limited to just iron based stuff.

The vat setup looks good, btw.

 

[harleybuilder]

[emoji106] [emoji106]

 

[Fretters]

Came across a brass handle in one of the drawers which I cleaned up a while ago in the vat, so thought I'd post some before and afters, (seeing it jogged my memory), so that people can see that the vat isn't just limited to iron. This handle was simply left in the vat overnight and then given a scrub with a soft bristle wire brush. It had been buried in a garden for years.

 

[Fretters]

This is the PSU I run mine from, btw.

As you can see, it's only a 2.5A unit, but nowt has ever failed to clean up using that power supply.

 

[clubairth]

Has anyone used their MIG welder as a DC power source??

I have a 200A Snap On Mig welder and use it as my power source. I pull the wire out of the liner and run a clamp from the tip to my electrodes. Then I tape the trigger in the handle down so the welder is 100% on.

This way I have full control on how much current I am pumping into the solution. This Mig has a dial to infinitely adjust amps. I have found higher current equals faster rust removal.

I really like how the paint comes off in sheets due to the free Hydrogen being released from the surface of the metal. Does not actually remove the paint but mechanically separates it from the steel surface as the rust comes out. I sometimes get pieces of paint as big as 8" x 10"!
.
.
.

 

[larry4406]

I would think the Mig would not have a continuous rating for this purpose.

 

[drivesitfar]

Fretters: that handle almost looks like copper, but probably my laptop color if you say it's brass. did you say you can put copper in the vat to clean it up if you have a piece to clean?

also since your vat is a wooden box lined with heavy duty plastic and outside did you cut a hole in the side of your shed to put the wires through so your power source can stay dry inside?

Club: nice post and very interesting as Arte Johnson used to say.

 

[Fretters]

Fretters: that handle almost looks like copper, but probably my laptop color if you say it's brass. did you say you can put copper in the vat to clean it up if you have a piece to clean?

With brass being composed mainly of copper, it takes on the appearance of copper in the areas where corrosion occured. I believe the zinc content is altered/depleted in those portions, (going from the nuggets of info I've gleaned), hence why it appears to be just plain copper. Polishing it with something like Brasso would bring back the brass colour, as it's generally only surface deep.

Yup, I clean pure copper in the vat too.

also since your vat is a wooden box lined with heavy duty plastic and outside did you cut a hole in the side of your shed to put the wires through so your power source can stay dry inside?

Aye, the wires are fed outside through a hole/gap in the fascia. They're inside a length of hosepipe to protect them outside, where they run from the workshop to the vats.

 

[torqueman2002]

Came across a brass handle .... so that people can see that the vat isn't just limited to iron. This handle was simply left in the vat overnight and then given a scrub with a soft bristle wire brush. It had been buried in a garden for years.

Thanks Fretters.

I restore/rescue bench grinders, many of the parts are cast aluminum.

Is there an electrolysis method to remove paint from the aluminum parts?

 

[harleybuilder]

Thanks Fretters.

I restore/rescue bench grinders, many of the parts are cast aluminum.

Is there an electrolysis method to remove paint from the aluminum parts?

Interested in the answer also.

 

[drivesitfar]

Doc & Harley: I'll throw out my thoughts. The guys were saying through this thread that stainless and probably aluminum and chrome shouldn't go in the Electrolysis because of the toxic gas and residue in the water it might make. Probably still wire wheeling, scotch pads and buffing probably is still the best answer IMHO.

Fretters: thanks for the explanation. what's the longest continuous amount of time you've kept that unit plugged in and the power turned on to the anodes in the Electrolysis tank (vat)?

 

[harleybuilder]

Doc & Harley: not sure if it's 100% aluminum if it's rusting so Electrolysis might not be the answer. wire wheeling, scotch pads and buffing probably is still the best answer IMHO.

Fretters: thanks for the explanation. what's the longest continuous amount of time you've kept that unit plugged in and the power turned on to the anodes in the Electrolysis tank (vat)?

I'm interested in it for paint removal on the blocks.

 

[drivesitfar]

Doc: how is the PINK Parker doing or have you started cooking it yet?

Harley: i noticed that and tried to edit my post quickly, but not quick enough for you. i agree Aluminum doesn't rust.

 

[harleybuilder]

Doc: how is the PINK Parker doing or have you started cooking it yet?

Harley: i noticed that and tried to edit my post quickly, but not quick enough for you. i agree Aluminum doesn't rust.

I edited mine also. .lol. .. I guess I'll just stick wire wheel and scotch brights. . Don't want to take chances with the out gasses. ..

 

[Fretters]

Thanks Fretters.

I restore/rescue bench grinders, many of the parts are cast aluminum.

Is there an electrolysis method to remove paint from the aluminum parts?

The vat should probably work okay on aluminium too. I've yet to try it properly though. My only venture into that area was by mistake, so far. I made another, smaller basket for small pieces out of what I thought was brass mesh. Turns out it was anodized aluminium mesh though. The anodizing has been removed partially from that mesh, during it's time on the cathode side in the vat, (it's only had one overnight session in there so far), so I'm guessing it should work fine on painted aluminium too. I'll run a test over the next few days, if I get chance.

Anything less alkaline than caustic doesn't seem to have a notable effect on aluminium, from what I've seen, so dunking aluminium in the vat for depainting and deoxidisation does seem a viable possibility, if something like bicarb or sodium carbonate is being used. I once dunked an aluminium housing in a vat of sodium carbonate based solution for a few days, (just a straight soak, not using electrolysis), and it had no notable effect whatsoever on the aluminium or the oxidisation over the space of a few days.


DIF: It's when metals are on the anode side that they deposit things into the solution, as they break down and decompose. Whatever is on the cathode side should theoretically be safe, unless the material is naturally affected/attacked by an alkali alone. Other than the conversion of rust to magnetite being purely electro-chemical, most other effects noted when the vat is used are more due to the generation of gasses on the surface of the material connected to the cathode. It's comparative to a mild scrubbing action.

 

[Fretters]

Fretters: thanks for the explanation. what's the longest continuous amount of time you've kept that unit plugged in and the power turned on to the anodes in the Electrolysis tank (vat)?

Most of the time, it tends to be running pretty much continuously. Derusted parts come out, fresh rusty parts go in. I rarely if ever let it run above 1.5A though, even when I use the large vat. A steady run seems just as effective at cleaning as allowing it to sink as much current as it wants. Higher current just tends to make the gassing action more vigorous, so the paint removal is helped by the fact that the rapid surface gassing is literally blasting the paint off the surface from beneath.

 

[Fretters]

This is the little mesh basket that I dropped a bollock with, btw.

Honestly thought it was brass mesh, and never noted the colour of the cut ends due to the artificial lighting. It was only when I pulled it out of the vat after an overnight session that I noted it was aluminium, due to some of the anodizing having been removed.

On a positive note, it performed admirably. I'd popped some copper and brass washers and some brass nuts in there, and they all scrubbed up a treat when they came out. Made this basket due to the larger one just being overkill when only wanting to clean a handful of small pieces.

 

[drivesitfar]

Fretters: thanks for the thoughts and information. BTW is that a new jar of Burgundy paint and a new vise painted or is that an old picture?

cool little basket.

Harley: so i read yours and Doc's post about paint removal and started writing and thought about rust when talking about E tanks. hope Fretter's post helped.

 

[Fretters]

Fretters: thanks for the thoughts and information. BTW is that a new jar of Burgundy paint

Aye, I've decanted a bit more paint into a fresh jar. My last jar didn't seem to last long, for some reason.

and a new vise painted or is that an old picture?

Aye, that's another one I've just finished painting. I actually stripped and cleaned that vice a few months ago, but I've only just got around to finishing the paint job. It's a small Bison 80mm vice.

cool little basket.

It'd have been a lot better if it was brass. Now I've made it though, I'm going to run with it for a while and see how or if it's affected by use in the vat. If the worst that happens to it is that the anodizing disappears gradually, I'll be a happy chappy. Seems a shame to scrap it just due to it not being the metal I thought it was though.

 

[harleybuilder]

Harley: so i read yours and Doc's post about paint removal and started writing and thought about rust when talking about E tanks. hope Fretter's post helped.

No worries. ... Fretter post helped quite a bit. Thanks "Fretter"