Learning to WELD!

[bczygan]

Man, you're sure keeping busy. Why sweat to stay a full time student over summer?

Because it's fun and free!

Did some fab and some MIG welding this evening in MIG class.

Photos show a MIG lap weld on a couple of sheared and curved (From the shear) pieces of 3/8" hot rolled. Then a couple of handles in 1/8" and then 4 little L shaped brackets.

Also started prepping a set of metal bed frames to make rolling bases for my 2 Delta Rockwell Unisaws.

Bill

 

[sberry]

Don't use bed frames. I regret using pieces, seems you want to drill a hole after , what problem. I collect and salvage a lot of steel, all but those, I don't want it mixed in.

 

[bczygan]

Don't use bed frames. I regret using pieces, seems you want to drill a hole after , what problem. I collect and salvage a lot of steel, all but those, I don't want it mixed in.

These are nice and rusty too.

I'm going to play with them, just for the experience. Started grinding and flap discing the rust and scale and paint. And ground a couple of bolt ends off. They do seem harder than the mild steel we've been working with.

Won't need holes. Everything will be welded. Will weld mild steel bent brackets to the bed frame and drill and tap the brackets for casters.

Will cut the bed frames with the iron man and a cut off wheel.

How do they weld? Thinking of 6010 for penetration.

Bill

 

[sberry]

6010 is not great for them. Hard steel you use 7018. It mixes less and cools slower. About the 10 and rust. It's not better on rust,,, it's easier. I have used lots of 18 on rust. 10 digs, it's got an agressive arc. The 18 is milder pen but a skilled operator can use the extra flux to carry the contaminates away and it has a nicer finish.
As for the frames, at the moment you are welding all this, later want to come along and run a screw in and you cant. Doesn't mean you can't build with them but I been bit by this and just make it policy not to use them and don't collect it, goes double if it's rusty. I will buy a stick or 2 before I do that.
8 do use a lot of used, I use it in places cleaning don't matter or can be cleaned where welded, at connections. I find.better where there are lots of welds, where I want to paint etc.
Appliance steel is great, washers are about the easiest. It's already finished, primes and painted as good as its ever going to get, scuff and paint again if needed, weathers very well. Raw steel sheet is very tedious to paint prep.

 

[sberry]

Another thing about this kind of welding. It doesn't always need most penetrant ion and strength as it can. It's simple and screwed or bolted would be fine too, the strength often is over spans and not at connections. I make **** like this easy, I fill gaps vs perfect cuts, design square cuts and leave all that miter **** for the amateurs.
Had a helper ask the other day,,,, why,,, when it would be stronger a different way. I explain, it's easier, the connection already exceeds adequate, more wouldn't help at the end of the day he says,,, we would have had to do a LOT more work to make it ANY stronger.

 

[bczygan]

Another thing about this kind of welding. It doesn't always need most penetrant ion and strength as it can. It's simple and screwed or bolted would be fine too, the strength often is over spans and not at connections. I make **** like this easy, I fill gaps vs perfect cuts, design square cuts and leave all that miter **** for the amateurs.
Had a helper ask the other day,,,, why,,, when it would be stronger a different way. I explain, it's easier, the connection already exceeds adequate, more wouldn't help at the end of the day he says,,, we would have had to do a LOT more work to make it ANY stronger.

I get that!

The other day in class, when I was fabricating the angle to make the base for the BBQ, I cut and notched them so the 4 pieces were **** joints rather than laps. Ended up with big gaps I had to fill and grind. Ended up being more work and didn't look or work any better.

This frame will just be lap joints with the ends set on the sides.

Bill

 

[Farmall450]

Is it only free if you stay full time?

Can't beat free consumables, etc. Nice!

 

[Lassen Forge]

Bed frame is a pita. I do use it, but like was said, when it's time to drill it for riveting or bolting, you either have to anneal it i the right place to get it soft enough to drill, or you learn to proficiently use various 4 letter words (and some with more than 4 letters as well)...

Not saying it's not good - that springyness has its uses - but it takes more work and materials to make working with that "free" stock easier.

 

[bczygan]

Is it only free if you stay full time?

Can't beat free consumables, etc. Nice!

It's free regardless.

I just want to take full advantage of the opportunity. I would live there if I had the energy and a place to sleep and eat.

Not just consumables, but some materials too. One guy built a BBQ. Another is building a welding table. I've rigged up a hold down and made a bracket for my compressor motor starter. After the 2 rolling bases for my Unisaws, I need a couple carts for my welders and a welding table would be nice.

I take home my practice pieces since there is lots more space available on them for future practice. Plus, I can take anything I want from the scrap bins. They waste so much. A couple of beads on a coupon or T joint. I cut the weld out of a coupon with the iron worker and get 2 pieces of 3/8" plate 3"x6"!


Bill

 

[Craptain]

I wonder if I can get free lessons now that I am legally old.

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[bczygan]

I wonder if I can get free lessons now that I am legally old.

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Probably!

Many community colleges and some 4 year institutions offer free tuition for seniors age 60 and older. Particulars vary and some places restrict access in different ways. Some don't offer CE courses or only allow auditing credit courses. Some charge lab fees.

Here, it is residents of the county that the community college is in. We get to take academic and trades courses for credit or not and continuing education courses as well. Basically all the courses they offer including pilot ground school, A&P mechanics courses, Motorcycle license course, RE license training and all kind of fun courses. Lab and material fees are covered too. You just need to buy books.
Technically, paying customers have first dibs, but I've never run into that.

They advertise it, but I didn't get the word until I was 68.

Many places, even the college staff aren't aware of the program. You have to find the right person in registration who knows what's what.

A GJ member from NY state thought that NY was too stingy to do this, but I found they have a state wide program that includes some 4 year schools and 2 community colleges near to her that she could attend.

So check this out. Here's a link to my school to show the kind of things they offer:

http://www.wcccd.edu/

Continuing education:
http://www.wcccd.edu/academic/pdfs/CE_Spring_Schedule_2019_FINAL_Web.pdf

Academic:
http://www.wcccd.edu/academic/academic_programs.htm

Bill

 

[Farmall450]

Perks of being old, I guess!

 

[bczygan]

I wonder if I can get free lessons now that I am legally old.

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Here is a list of Florida colleges that may offer free courses for seniors:

http://www.aseniorcitizenguideforcollege.com/2010/06/florida.html

Bill

 

[ZRX61]

The issue with old bed frames is they're mostly monkey metal from China. There can be all sorts of **** thrown in the pot & just when you think you have a piece that's easy to work with you hit a lump of carbide....

 

[Craptain]

Here is a list of Florida colleges that may offer free courses for seniors:

http://www.aseniorcitizenguideforcollege.com/2010/06/florida.html

Bill

Thanks for that Bill. I already knew about USF, my local University, but there's nowhere on the list where I can do welding, or other practical courses. But I will be digging deeper.

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[BajaScout]

Free for veterans in San Diego.

Workshop For Warriors. A variety of courses.

https://wfw.org

 

[bczygan]

Got to use my welding skills (Or lack of them) yesterday.

Exhaust system (From the Cat on back)on the E350 Econoline fell off in the road.

Was on the way to school and dragged it along with me as I pulled into the gas station across the intersection.

Rigged it back up by sliding a piece of angle into the pipe and Cat to hold up one end and bent the tailpipe hanger for the other one. Went to school. Bent a couple of pipe hangers up at school just in case I would need them.

When I got home, I spent 3 hours cleaning things up and jockeying the thing into place and welded it in place with some really ugly looking MIG welds.

This morning I'm having a new muffler installed $260.

Bill

 

[Terry Eklund]

if you whip/oscillate your electrode, do not move more than the thickness of your electrode (rod)that way you stay in your puddle longer. Overlap your stringers by 1/3 of your puddle size...brace yourself as best as you can...I preferred lead elbow against side,not hand holding stinger side.. hope that helps...

 

[bczygan]

Been working on a project for an instructor. A beekeepers box for drying frames and impregnating the wood with beeswax.

Just about completed the base today. It's a 1' high section x 21 1/4" square. Has 4 2"x 2" tube legs welded to the bottom of a 1"x 1" angle frame. The legs have 3"x 3" x 3/8" pad feet with holes drilled for casters. It will be wrapped with 18GA sheet steel, 19" tall that I bent, leaving a gap at the bottom for combustion air.

A burner goes in this base section, to heat up the wax in the container above.

I designed it as a separate section because of weight. The upper section, a water tight box, will sit on this base.

Someone else bent up the 2 pieces that make up the sides of the box. I made the base and lid. We only had 10" wide sheet metal, so I made them out of 3 pans each.

I had fun learning how to bend on the box and pan brake. I welded up the bottom badly and it warped, but I will fix that. The top is all clamped up, waiting for tacking and welding.

Learned a lot of fabrication and welding skills and lessons on this project so far.

Next project will be a welding cart for may Lincoln 3200HD 135A 120V MIG welder. Have a design in my head and some metal cut.

They're starting to call me, "The Fabricator"!

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Off on spring break until next Friday.

Itching to build something!

Bill

 

[bczygan]

MIG welder cart.

That's a project I can start.

But what design?

Bill

 

[bczygan]

MIG welder cart.

That's a project I can start.

But what design?

Bill

Started by thinking of a 2x2 tube for a central "mast" that things cantilever from.

Starting to realize it's overkill.

Bill

 

[theoldwizard1]

So where is the "go to" place in Detroit for metal ?

 

[sberry]

Start with free stuff, go from there. One of the HF engine stands is good bones too, cheap.

 

[bczygan]

So where is the "go to" place in Detroit for metal ?

I wish I knew! There's a place in Hamtramck I've gone to.

Start with free stuff, go from there. One of the HF engine stands is good bones too, cheap.

I'm always looking on big trash day for stuff.

I also keep an eye on CraigsList for free items with metal I can use.

Another source is scrap yards. I don't know which are the best, or which ones will even let you buy.

The HF one is a deal, but I want to make one where it will transport the "T" size 330CF cylinder.

Bill

 

[OccupantRJ]

Bill, do you already have the T cylinder, and can you get it refilled? That size is normally lease only. I have one I got on the grey market, but found a backyard welding gas dealer who exchanges it for me with no questions asked. It runs $80 for 100% argon with him, and he will help me out on weekends if I run out of welding supplies.

 

[bczygan]

Bill, do you already have the T cylinder, and can you get it refilled? That size is normally lease only. I have one I got on the grey market, but found a backyard welding gas dealer who exchanges it for me with no questions asked. It runs $80 with him, and he will help me out on weekends if I run out of welding supplies.

I have 2 T cylinders. 75/25 for MIG and Argon for TIG. One will exchange with the local mom and pop place. Probably the other one too.


Bill

 

[sberry]

A full 330 could last the rest of his life.

 

[bczygan]

A full 330 could last the rest of his life.

It really could!



New life goal:


I want to outlive my welding gases!





Bill

 

[bczygan]

Today was MIG class.

I was 15 minutes late because I forgot it starts at 3:00.

Work continued on the Bee Box.

I welded up the lid, but it warped even though I did it section by section. I have it clamped for installing a brace.

Turned to the base, welding the pad feet on. 32 inches of welding. Then grinding welds so the sheet metal surround would fit flush on the legs. Cut a couple of flanges I had bent, off of the sheet metal and it fit perfectly. Did some short welds to hold it in place. Need to weld continuously around the top edge, 88" worth.

Still need to weld the bottom in and the sides together.


Bill

 

[bczygan]

Cool work today on the Bee box!

The warped lid and bottom were a mess, so I went to the pile of steel and found some 24" wide 1/8" material. Decided to make new parts. This is much heavier than the 18GA I was using.

In fact, it is the heaviest the box and finger break will handle.

Cut out the corners and bent it up with some help because it takes 3 people to do it.

MIG'd the corners up zip, zip, zip, pro looking welds!

Cut out and bent up 2 handles and MIG'd them on at an angle.

Still need to do the bottom and weld the box together and cut out a door in the base for access to the burner.


Then I cut up some of the same material for two 16" x 24" shelves to make a welding cart. Bent the sides down 1" just like the Bee Box top. Welded the corners zip, zap, done! These will be held up by a single rectangular tube cantilevered from the main mast of the cart. Professor saw what I was doing and said he wants to make a cart too, so I gave these to him and cut 2 more for myself. Will bend and weld them tomorrow. Cut some round HD tubing to hang hoses from, for the carts. Going to fab a holder for the bottles as well.

Then to make the main T shaped frame. This will be 3 wheeled for uneven floors. I hope to accommodate the full T cylinder (330CF).

Going to fab some hangers for grinders and make the bottom shelf sized for a drawer unit of some type.

Fun projects. Wish the welding classes went beyond next Monday.

But starting on the 13th, a new semester begins, and even though I won't be taking any welding classes, I'll be in there to use the facilities and make more stuff!

Photos later, when I get my phone going.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Finally some photos.

Yesterday I spent considerable time wire wheeling the sheet metal sides.

Notched the corners of the 1/8" bottom panel and bent it into a pan. Size was very critical, so I was very careful. Trimmed 1/8" off both edges of one side panel to get a great fit up.

Then I clamped one of the side panels to the bottom and tacked them together.

Today I'm going to work on welding it and the other side panel to get the basic box together.

I've got from 9AM until 2PM or so. Then in the evening, Autobody class is from 4PM until 8PM, but I just hand in the take home final and leave, so I can use the time in the welding lab from 3PM until 8PM. Fun, fun, fun!

I think the top edge of the 18GA sides need some reinforcement, so will work on that and then cut a door in one side of the base and make a door and handle for it.

That should complete the project.

Then on to working the professor's and mine welding carts. I still have a Monday welding class to work on those.

The photos show the bottom section of the bee box on one students welding table and the base and sides of the box on one of the two precision welding tables in the school. The other table has the pans I'm bending up for shelves for the welding carts.


Bill

 

[Motoman1100]

New life goal:


I want to outlive my welding gases!


Bill

This really cracked me up, seems like a legit goal to me! Ha

 

[bczygan]

Today I got a lot completed.

Welded the second 2 sides on the bee box bottom.Welded the 2 vertical seams, Welded the bottom seams where the sides and the flange of the bottom are pressed together. Spent oodles of time grinding and running the flap disk.

Made a door for the base and a handle for it and welded the handle on.

Ran the plasma cutter and cut the door in the base sheet metal. I REALLY like playing with that toy. Need to get mine going.

All that remains is some welding of sheet metal on the base and affixing the door with some hinges.\

Sides are 18GA, top and bottom are 1/8". 2x2 legs, 1x1 angle frame for base, 2x3x3/8 pad feet with holes for casters. Box is 21x21x? Base is 12" high. 1/8" top and bottom were a bear to bend as they were the limit for the box and pan break.

Mig class tomorrow at 4PM and the last stick class on Monday.

Some photos:

Bill

Note:This is for one of the professors at school. He's a beekeeper and this is for maintaining the hives and parts of the hives. They are made of wood and need refurbishing. The top portion is half filled with beeswax and a burner is placed in the lower section. Wooden hive parts are put in the hot wax and moisture is driven out and the wood is infused with wax, negating the need for painting them.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Bill, looks like you are coming along well on welding and fab work. It is good to be enthused about something in our older years. I like taking old things and making them new again. Now, if I could just do that with us humans.....

 

[bczygan]

Finished the class, project and in a couple of hours, the semester.

Added 2 handles to the bottom section and 2 more to the top section (Didn't get a photo with them).

Bought a 12" piano hinge and welded it on for the door.

In automotive now. Going to take ASE test for a final.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Finished the class, project and in a couple of hours, the semester.

Added 2 handles to the bottom section and 2 more to the top section (Didn't get a photo with them).

Bought a 12" piano hinge and welded it on for the door.

In automotive now. Going to take ASE test for a final.

Bill

Passed the ASE test.

Signed up for the beginning 101 welding class again. It's to get some more seat time in the welding lab, so I can finish my welding cart project and also to get better at my welding.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Summer semester starts tomorrow.

Wife thinks I'm only taking a Saturday class, but I also have evening classes Monday thru Thursday and welding Wednesday during the day. I'm taking the Welding 101 class again, (just to have more time in the lab).

We'll see how THAT goes, when the wife finds out Monday evening!

I'm in the middle of making a welding cart, so need time in the lab.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Female professor/instructor and I'm learning a lot!

This is the intro welding class that I have already taken. But it was an accelerated class and I missed the first 4 sessions, so didn't get the oxy/acetelyne info.

This instructor is very detailed and I'm learning a bunch!

Yesterday was brazing. Photos later today.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

My instructor!

Bill