Learning to WELD!

[bczygan]

I'm reading the assigned portion of the textbook on MIG welding.

I thought MIG was simple.

Not so fast!

There's more to it than I thought!

The MIG class is just one night a week.

On Mondays and Wednesdays I have a Section II SMAW class I signed up for at the last minute to add credit hours for the semester. It seems you can go deeper in each of these processes.

Bill

 

[dr_clyde]

Yes, that's an incredibly common misconception. Wire welding is by far the most complicated and difficult kind of welding to master.

Anybody can mig weld if the machine is set up correctly. Knowing the science of WHY the weld is behaving the way it is takes years.

 

[sberry]

I don't even remember a portion of what there is to know about it.,... really dont care. I know a couple guys don't know squat, are crappy welders in other processes and even have limited seat time but can run the machine well. I was a career stick welder, was resistant but,,,, would have dam near got away from lotso work had it not been for mig. I was tired of pecking slag.
Ist is a test with Hobart 210, second bead with the machine. I have the 1st somewhere set by the chart, on this one I turned it up to see what it would do. It was a keeper.
The next 2 are Wirematic 255, its about a pain in the *** and if I knew then/mow would have taken it back for a Miller. Its super fussy, change wire and its a different machine. In pic 2 I stop to see if I can get some more spatter out, about a volt change. I didn't consider posting pic 3 when I did it, its a weld out of the way no one can see but its a lot off operator work to get it that good. If I really had to use it a lot would sell, trade or buy new machine.
Only need a larger mig on occasion, it might run another process like flux better, who knows. I got some China generic wire, ran it great, next time they didn't have the same wire, it was Radnor or WA maybe, never could get it to run as good as China which was as good or better in it than L56.

 

[bczygan]

Went down to the garage and calibrated my MIG welder.

Ran some beads including weaving some cover passes.

Getting it dialed in pretty good.

Bill

 

[matt_i]

Yes, that's an incredibly common misconception. Wire welding is by far the most complicated and difficult kind of welding to master.

Anybody can mig weld if the machine is set up correctly. Knowing the science of WHY the weld is behaving the way it is takes years.

I usually tell people that the hard part of the art is to get the joint strength you need AND the dimensions (squareness, parallelism, alignment) that you want.

 

[xman_charl]

welding process for me

arc...easy breezy

mig...little more complicated

tig...like a dancer


Charl

 

[b-boy]

I took some classes a few years back. I really enjoyed it. This thread's got me thinking of starting up again.

Unfortunately, the program was setup so that you had to take welding math, basic stick, and advanced stick before you were allowed to take MIG/TIG.

I got through the stick, but started a new job that didn't have the time flexibilty of my old job. As a result, I was never able to take the MIG/TIG classes. They're still on my to-do list.

 

[sberry]

A lot of guys here want or need to learn to weld. Don't need to teach them to build everything.

 

[Craptain]

My welding is self taught. I wanted to take classes and will when my and the college schedules coincide. But my point here is that I don't consider myself a welder and restrict my work to absolutely non critical jobs for my own use. My machine is a Chinese tig/stick inverter that I could afford.
Don't let the lack of red or blue machines stop you.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[bczygan]

A lot of guys here want or need to learn to weld. Don't need to teach them to build everything.

At my community college, you take it in different orders depending on the program you are in, but generally:

101 Intro to oxygen/acetylene and stick.
103 TIG
105 MIG
102 Advanced oxygen/acetylene and stick
104 Advanced TIG
106 Fabrication
107 Fabrication II
110 Metal sculpture
111 Advanced metal sculpture
112 Welding equipment repair
201 Specialized processes
202 Quality Testing
208 Pipe welding
209 Advanced pipe welding
210 Certification

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Had my first Welding 102 class yesterday and I am AMAZED!

It is a stage II class of oxy/acetylene and stick welding.

I am studying the oxy/acetylene chapter for tomorrows class, and boy, it has a lot more to it than I ever imagined!!!

Bill

 

[bczygan]

First time with a gas torch yesterday. Got a short raggedy "bead" in a T joint.

Steep learning curve in each new process.

Still very satisfying to learn.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Today was the second day of MIG (GMAW) class.

I got one bead on a T joint done, and then the instructor asked me to show some new students the ropes. So I became a teacher for half the session, showing them the machine, how to set it up, how to run a bead etc. Got them all situated with all the tools they needed and the correct settings and cut metal for them. Started with straight beads on the flat. After a bit, I had them doing T joints, and with some demonstration, and giving some hints to help them improve, they were doing very well. One kid is a natural. Took right to it.

Reason we had to do this is because we have more students than welders. The electrician who hooked them up, did it wrong, and it blew 3 machines.

Some people left early, so I got a machine and got some seat time.

Here's my T joint (My second MIG one) and my second vertical down lap joint.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Today was Oxygen/Acetylene class.


The project was to build a 2"x2"x2" cube out of 1/16" or thinner steel.

First photo was tacked together.

Second is edges welded and not leaking.

Third is faces and edges ground to show any imperfections.


I finally was able to get a good flame and push the puddle.

Next is getting more consistent beads.


Bill

 

[bczygan]

Correction. It was a 3"x3"x3" cube.

Yesterday was the last day of OA welding. I welded the seams on the cube again. Found I was moving too fast, causing a bumpy bead. Went over it slowly with the torch and no filler rod. It gave me a much better bead. All together I got almost 150" of practice. Would like to have some more, but next week we go to stick.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Got some more OA practice this evening before auto body class.

In fact, I forgot the time and was 15 minutes late for class.

Got much better at pushing the puddle. Redid the cube edges.

Auto body class ended early, so went back to the welding lab and ran some TIG beads in aluminum. Best beads yet. Puddle seemed a lot bigger than before. Pulsed the pedal for nice dimes.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Interesting day at MIG class.

Went in at 2PM. Ended up teaching some new students. Late arrivals, so we had more people than machines. I have a 5 minute run down I give on how to turn on the machine, and 5 more minutes to get them the tools and show them how to run a bead.

It's a quickie version of the things I learned from the instructor, that have worked for me.

Surprisingly, everyone I have done this with, caught on very quickly.

Also gave some tips to a couple of my contemporary students to help improve their work.

Funny thing is, they were so surprised at the improvement, that they thought it was my machine. I had to get them to do the same thing on their machines, to prove it was them that had improved. A very satisfying thing to do. And it makes me better too, because I have to run a good bead when I do examples.

Meanwhile I was struggling with lap joints until I started pushing the puddle. Got much better.

And of course there is that one guy who is just a natural, and the one guy who just doesn't care, has an attitude, and wastes metal.

And so it goes.


Bill

 

[Craptain]

Bill, I have found that the best way to improve your own skills is to teach others. Just as long as you stay ahead of the students. Looks like you and your instructor are making use of that approach.

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[bczygan]

Bill, I have found that the best way to improve your own skills is to teach others. Just as long as you stay ahead of the students. Looks like you and your instructor are making use of that approach.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Yes, as he was telling me last night, no matter where you are in your skill level, he pushes you to improve and add to your skill set.

We actually had 3 people doing it, matched up with newbies. And we all share methods with each other and critique our own and each others work. It really speeds up the learning curve for us all. Sometimes you get stuck.

Trina was doing circles on a 1/8" lap joint and getting fat round beads because she was moving too slow. I showed her how to just run straight and faster while watching the top of the puddle so it met the edge. It gave her a nice flat bead. The bottom of the bead takes care of itself as long as you have the right gun angles and a consistent travel speed. On the other hand, small circles work great on a T joint.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Learned a bit last night in the welding lab.

MIG class is today, but I have to miss it to go to my step sons viewing. So I got in an hour in the welding lab before going to auto body class.

I was welding 3/8" vertical up.

The instructor came over with some 18GA for me to try out a lap weld on. Had to use the Miller app to get volts and wire speed close and then tweak it. Tried a T joint (See photo). Then did the assignment, which was a continuous weld on one side and short beads on the other. Not too good a start on the continuous weld. Taught me that MIG is good for thin metals, like patch panels on a vehicle. Something I need to do.

Bill

 

[BajaScout]

Bill, do you normally wear reading glasses?

I ask this because I do and find that I can weld much better with them on when I weld.

Took me a while to figure that out.

 

[bczygan]

Bill, do you normally wear reading glasses?

I ask this because I do and find that I can weld much better with them on when I weld.

Took me a while to figure that out.

Yes, I do!

Since my cataract surgery last year, they are essential.


Right now I am using those $1 ones from the dollar store with a 1.5 diopter.

Should be using glasses designed specifically for me.

Adding to the difficulties is the essential tremor that has been getting worse in both hands.

All in all though, I'm happy with my progress.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Another thing that I am finding is critical, is adequate lighting.

I bring my own HF light to school.

Bill

 

[BajaScout]

Yes, I do!

Adding to the difficulties is the essential tremor that has been getting worse in both hands.

All in all though, I'm happy with my progress.

Bill

I have a bit of the same issue. I try to rest my welding hand with my other hand or something solid. The two hand method seems to work best.

 

[bczygan]

I have a bit of the same issue. I try to rest my welding hand with my other hand or something solid. The two hand method seems to work best.

I use 2 hands and a leg.

Left elbow rests on left thigh, left hand supports right hand.

Left leg rotates to move the whole assembly.

I brace every which way that I can, using table, seat, walls, floors, the part, whatever.

Bill

 

[BajaScout]

I use 2 hands and a leg.

Left elbow rests on left thigh, left hand supports right hand.

Left leg rotates to move the whole assembly.

I brace every which way that I can, using table, seat, walls, floors, the part, whatever.

Bill

Sounds like you have a good plan. Different for everyone, but once you figure out what works, you are GTG.

 

[bczygan]

Starting the old "Pad of beads" in stick class.

Got assigned 5 more chapters to read and do questions. This instructor didn't put the chapter list in the syllabus, so we couldn't work ahead. But I should have seen that these would have been the next ones on the textbook.


Bill

 

[bczygan]

Doing beads, lap joints and T joints in flat, horizontal, vertical up and vertical down positions on 3/16 steel with 6010. Vertical up is giving us all fits. I did a vertical down which went smooth as butter, and tried to pass it off as a vertical up. No luck!

Covered a lap with 7018. Love it!

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Some beads from this evening.

3/16 MIG 19V 300IPM Circular manipulation.

Getting more regular?


Bill

 

[bczygan]

Still having trouble with the vertical up triangular manipulation.

And 3/32 gap whip and pause has me stymied.

Bill

 

[BajaScout]

Is the metal nice and clean before you weld?

 

[bczygan]

Is the metal nice and clean before you weld?

No.

We're not taking the time to do that. We're concentrating on doing the right manipulations.

Missed too many class days because of weather to waste any time making them pretty.

I do like the run the wire wheel over the beads though.

Bill

 

[BajaScout]

I was referring to cleaning the metal BEFORE you weld. This will remove the mill scale on the metal.

 

[bczygan]

I was referring to cleaning the metal BEFORE you weld. This will remove the mill scale on the metal.

Yes, I understood.

We don't do it.


Bill

 

[BajaScout]

Interesting. My welding instructor was adamant about it.

I am just a hobbyist, however it sure makes a difference in my welds.

https://www.thefabricator.com/blog/clean-your-material-

 

[bczygan]

Tuesdays welding class was a fail.

Cutting coupons on the horizontal bandsaw. Lost some teeth. Searched and couldn't find a replacement blade.

Ended up just burning one rod.

Today will be different....I hope. Have homework ready. And have a plan of attack for the project assignments.

Bill

 

[bimmer1980]

That is a ******... sorry to hear that....

We had an iron worker in the high school welding shop. That made cutting metal into coupons a slick task. we could bang out a lot of chunks of metal and get to welding...

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Interesting. My welding instructor was adamant about it.

Mine were as well. I understand it's just "practice", but in my opinion part of practice is doing things the right way. For farm/industrial welding it might not make a difference, but on critical welds cleanliness is imperative. It's hard to diagnose/perfect your process when you are starting out flawed. Overall, the welds look great. Definitely will hold.

 

[86turbodsl]

Bill, you are sure showing signs of major improvement! I wish we had classes out where i live, but we don't. Self taught here, and always looking for improvement.

Keep up the good work!

 

[dr_clyde]

Welds are looking good Bill. You're definitely improving.

I would recommend cleaning the mill scale off before welding. Its not about looks. That mill scale has a very quantifiable effect on the weld pool and how the joint is welded. It only takes a few seconds to buzz it off with an angle grinder. Try it if you don't believe me. The toes wet in nicer and you're way less likely to get undercut. Your puddle is also cleaner, less **** floating around in there.

I'm kind of surprised your instructor doesn't require it. When I was in welding school, we were required to grind scale off. You'd fail visual and not even be allowed to cut up coupons for the bend test. You only made that mistake once. Code requires clean steel free of scale or coatings. Part of learning a skill is learning proper procedure.

Keep up the practice, the only way to get better is under the hood!