Learning to WELD!

[bczygan]

I've always wanted to learn, and have this ability.

Picked up some welders. Lincoln AC/DC tombstone, Lincoln 3200ES MIG and Lincoln Invertec V275S stick/TIG (Steel).

Just started school to learn at my old age (68).

Doing a number of stick assignments beginning with running beads, then lap joints and then whip and pause.

The first two with 6013 took me a while to finally get somewhat consistent results. See photo below of the last lap joint. Took a whole 4 hour class to get to get to that one, which still gets shaky at the end.

But the whip and pause with 6010 is discombobulating me because of the difficulty I have with getting a consistent width and controlling the heat. It gets too hot and penetrates completely. And the finish that results is odd to me.

The next one is creating a T shaped assembly by running a root and 2 overlapping stringers on each side. Everyone is having difficulty with this one.

I can see it being impossible as it requires 6010 and the whip and pause, both of which I am uncomfortable with. See assignment photo.

Any hints?

Bill

 

[tatra]

Listen for the bacon .

 

[joe49]

Watch the puddle, the arc and rod is in your peripheral vision. With practice control will become easier. As you whip away you need to increase arc length too so as not to deposit in the area you whip over. ...practice,practice,practice,practice,.....

 

[akalian]

Watch the puddle, the arc and rod is in your peripheral vision. With practice control will become easier. As you whip away you need to increase arc length too so as not to deposit in the area you whip over. ...practice,practice,practice,practice,.....

Regarding "Practice".. it reminded me of when I was learning to weld. I was taught be an old guy that could weld anything, anywhere. When I asked him how he could see where to strike the arc.

I complained I couldn't see anything with the hood down. He looked at me and just said "you can't see your mouth either, but don't have any trouble eating, now do you."

He went on to say, "when your livelihood depends on welding, you will learn how to do it, just as you learned to eat with a fork and spoon."

One of his favorite expressions was, "a half inch weld is good as a 1/2" bolt".

Sadly, he's gone now, RIP, but not forgotten.

.

 

[rvieceli]

As joe49 says you have to watch the puddle. And that means you have to be able to see the puddle. With my old (67) eyes I like to have some extra light on the work area. I don’t know where you are but the lighting in the welding stations at the local jr college is horrible.
A lot of us older guys also use cheater lenses in the hood or with reader glasses.

You might to try different hoods to see if you can see better with another one.

Ron

 

[jhn9840]

I've always wanted to learn, and have this ability.

Picked up some welders. Lincoln AC/DC tombstone, Lincoln 3200ES MIG and Lincoln Invertec V275S stick/TIG (Steel).

Just started school to learn at my old age (68).



bczygan, you are doing it the right way. Buying the equipment and going back to school.

Practice, practice and more practice is what it takes. There's a bunch of weldlng that can be done with 6010 root pass and 7018 cover passes.

jhn9840
John

 

[sweetk30]

my old farmer friend ( r.i.p ) showed me how with 2 pieces of scrap and a miller buz box stick . then he said here have fun .

from that point on i am basicly self educated at it . i dont know all the stuff hell not even 1/4th of it . but i can say non of my welds have realy broken that i know of that were ment to stay together . i did have a few on a home made fire ring pit i used bed frame angle iron on . .. not again with that **** .

i have a lincoln family here in my shop . 140c 110volt / power mig 216 220volt / precision tig 275 220volt water cooled setup . need to play with that a lot more .

a goo auto shade helmet is nice and time to practice . good luck and have fun . remember breath and be as comfortable as possible thats the ticket .

 

[bczygan]

my old farmer friend ( r.i.p ) showed me how with 2 pieces of scrap and a miller buz box stick . then he said here have fun .

from that point on i am basicly self educated at it . i dont know all the stuff hell not even 1/4th of it . but i can say non of my welds have realy broken that i know of that were ment to stay together . i did have a few on a home made fire ring pit i used bed frame angle iron on . .. not again with that **** .

i have a lincoln family here in my shop . 140c 110volt / power mig 216 220volt / precision tig 275 220volt water cooled setup . need to play with that a lot more .

a goo auto shade helmet is nice and time to practice . good luck and have fun . remember breath and be as comfortable as possible thats the ticket .

I've got the HF Vulcan auto helmet. On my last lap joint, I was finally able to get a wide and comfortable stance with my feet, a brace position that allowed controlled movement and a good look at the work. I used some soapstone to mark the edge of the lap and concentrated on smooth regular movements. My problems had been going to fast and keeping the electrode too far away. This time I changed both of those. Funny thing is someone was calling into my booth, telling me to come out, as the instructor was doing a demo. I just pressed on and finished. Came out OK.

On the last whip and pause I only looked at the puddle and moved the electrode to move the puddle. Felt like I was right down in it. Felt good but need more practice to feel comfortable that I can be consistent.

Still fun, but hard on an old body that is way out of shape. Maybe next week I will grab an extra session to get more practice in.

Bill

 

[sberry]

Those welds look pretty good for starters Bill. Now these are from a class, not intended to be perfect but to demonstrate whip and pause. 4 is open **** overhead, no bevel 1/4 plate, full pen. 1 is showing how much dig can be done and stacking it back in. Melting right thru a T joint.
2 is another open **** vertical and in 3 one can see the difference in whip space.
5 is a crack repair with a more refined whip.

 

[PugetDude]

Those welds look pretty good for starters.

My thoughts exactly.

When I was first learning I had some that looked like a bag of boogers dropped from an airplane that landed in the vicinity of the bead.

Keep it up, Bill; it's an addictive hobby. Pretty soon you'll be jonesing for a TIG...

 

[bczygan]

My thoughts exactly.

When I was first learning I had some that looked like a bag of boogers dropped from an airplane that landed in the vicinity of the bead.

Keep it up, Bill; it's an addictive hobby. Pretty soon you'll be jonesing for a TIG...

Already salivating!

But I have so much more to learn and so much practice to do.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Those welds look pretty good for starters Bill. Now these are from a class, not intended to be perfect but to demonstrate whip and pause. 4 is open **** overhead, no bevel 1/4 plate, full pen. 1 is showing how much dig can be done and stacking it back in. Melting right thru a T joint.
2 is another open **** vertical and in 3 one can see the difference in whip space.
5 is a crack repair with a more refined whip.

sberry,

Thank you for those. I studied them and your descriptions carefully.

Bill

 

[NorthNjWK]

Something I’ve always wanted to learn. Good luck!

 

[strength_and_power]

Search for weld.com on YouTube.
He is a welding instructor and breaks it down into very understandable terms. Good camera work showing the puddle as well. Welding tips and tricks on YouTube is good too but mostly TIG. Chucke2009 has some good info as well. Rods are pretty cheap, practice, then practice some more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sberry]

3 was sposed to be whip speed and spacing. Can change that for the amount of dig and penetration, useful for sheet metal.
Ok, here with 6010, an old box I found, speed was everything, I really don't roll the pipe but weld most out in position. Crude fast fit, single pass no leak. It's getting buried and after some weathering the welding looks way better. Square cut open ****.

 

[Woz]

Where are you taking the welding classes at? Schoolcraft ? I live in the Detroit area also and would like to learn to weld in the near future.

 

[bczygan]

Where are you taking the welding classes at? Schoolcraft ? I live in the Detroit area also and would like to learn to weld in the near future.

WCCCD Eastern Campus.

Bill

 

[driftpin]

WCCCD Eastern Campus.

Bill

Is that right-by the Fist of Joe Louis?

You are making your tax dollars work for you. I'll enjoy your progress.

 

[bczygan]

Is that right-by the Fist of Joe Louis?

You are making your tax dollars work for you. I'll enjoy your progress.

No.

I-94 and Conner.

WCCCD has 6 different campus locations.

http://www.wcccd.edu/

Wish I'd known about it 6 years ago.

Bill

 

[bimmer1980]

Bill,
Good for you to take the class!
Sounds like you are making the most of it.

When I learned to weld in high school, we laid beads on a pad of steel until it was about an inch thick. Then we moved to welding steel pieces together...

Those were some of the best classes in high school...

Keep practicing and enjoy yourself...

Brad

 

[Woz]

Thank you for information. I know that you get to be a better welding by practice but I also think instruction is the best way to start.

 

[bczygan]

Thank you for information. I know that you get to be a better welding by practice but I also think instruction is the best way to start.

Instruction does help you get better, more quickly.

On the lap weld, I was undercutting and laying down blobs that didn't even touch the upper plate. They just layed in dribs and drabs on the lower one.

The instructor actually came in the booth and while I welded, he held my hands in the proper position. I was resisting him because I was afraid of getting the electrode too close and sticking it. The result was that I found I was holding the electrode too far away. It helped solve some of my problems.

Some of the better YouTube videos also help.

Bill

 

[sberry]

It's all,, or should say a lot about arc length. After a while it can become instinctive. While the finish is a little ruff on 10 I can go on forever without leaks.

 

[bczygan]

Bill,
Good for you to take the class!
Sounds like you are making the most of it.

When I learned to weld in high school, we laid beads on a pad of steel until it was about an inch thick. Then we moved to welding steel pieces together...

Those were some of the best classes in high school...

Keep practicing and enjoy yourself...

Brad

You were lucky Brad.

I dropped out at the start of 9th grade and never got to take those kinds of classes. Later in life I did get to take one shop class for high school completion.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Today was difficult.

Back to doing welds that look like pigeon droppings. Spent all day on trying to do 3 beads overlapping on each side.

Finally gave up and went back to whip and pause, since I wasn't confident with that yet.

Just before end of class, I tried again and found I had been running too fast and at wrong angles and circling too small. Will try again Thursday.

Meanwhile, I need to get the Lincoln hooked up so I can practice at home. And on Thursdays I can go back in the evening and join the evening class for some extra time.

Didn't realize this was a fast track class that will finish in half the usual time, and I missed the first 4 sessions.

Luckily, I can take it again if I like at no cost.

Bill

 

[Hdonly0]

Keep on practicing. One day you will find yourself building all kind of things and wondering how you ever lived without knowing how to weld. It is a wonderful thing to learn how to do.

 

[shanehalpape]

Can someone recommend me a good school to learn welding?

 

[shanehalpape]

How was it?

 

[bimmer1980]

Today was difficult.

Back to doing welds that look like pigeon droppings. Spent all day on trying to do 3 beads overlapping on each side.

Finally gave up and went back to whip and pause, since I wasn't confident with that yet.

Just before end of class, I tried again and found I had been running too fast and at wrong angles and circling too small. Will try again Thursday.

Meanwhile, I need to get the Lincoln hooked up so I can practice at home. And on Thursdays I can go back in the evening and join the evening class for some extra time.

Didn't realize this was a fast track class that will finish in half the usual time, and I missed the first 4 sessions.

Luckily, I can take it again if I like at no cost.

Bill

It takes time to build up the muscle memory and steadiness... Remember to take a deep breath, relax, drop the hood and then get in the zone....

I remember as a new welder back in the day, that a person get's all nerved up and you get jittery....

One thing you can do at home to help is this: Clamp a long pencil in a vise grips. Then hold the vise grips like the weld stinger and then use the pencil end to draw weld bead circles, or z's on a paper. This will help you build the steadiness and muscle memory... I know it sounds hooky, but it might help.

I also find that it helps to rest one hand down in a fist to support your other hand that is holding the stinger. Then roll your fist as you move along the weld bead.

Ultimately, you will want to work to be able to weld freehand, but you can work up to that as you get the technique figured out.

Candidly, don't worry about trying to get a TIG welder at this point. That is a whole 'nother kettle of fish..... Just focus on being able to stick weld and then eventually work in to Mig Welding....

 

[bczygan]

It takes time to build up the muscle memory and steadiness... Remember to take a deep breath, relax, drop the hood and then get in the zone....

I remember as a new welder back in the day, that a person get's all nerved up and you get jittery....

One thing you can do at home to help is this: Clamp a long pencil in a vise grips. Then hold the vise grips like the weld stinger and then use the pencil end to draw weld bead circles, or z's on a paper. This will help you build the steadiness and muscle memory... I know it sounds hooky, but it might help.

I also find that it helps to rest one hand down in a fist to support your other hand that is holding the stinger. Then roll your fist as you move along the weld bead.

Ultimately, you will want to work to be able to weld freehand, but you can work up to that as you get the technique figured out.

Candidly, don't worry about trying to get a TIG welder at this point. That is a whole 'nother kettle of fish..... Just focus on being able to stick weld and then eventually work in to Mig Welding....

Thank you for the tips Brad.

I will put them into practice in the morning.

And I fully agree. There is way more than enough to learn with stick.

Bill

 

[theoldwizard1]

WCCCD Eastern Campus.

That is a large modern looking building. I hope people who live near it make good use of these educational opportunity !

 

[theoldwizard1]

I dropped out at the start of 9th grade and never got to take those kinds of classes. Later in life I did get to take one shop class for high school completion.

College prep high school and an engineering degree. Never had ANY wood/metal shop classes or even drafting. A few auto correspondence course (as they were called back in the day) but the rest has been self taught !

I will also admit that in my 30+ year career, I used very little of anything I learned in college. As a matter of fact, for a few years, I was quite pissed off at what I was NOT taught in college, seeing as that education came out of my pocket !

I picked up a most of knowledge by asking a lot of questions of people that I worked with. (Anyone ever write a program to update a sequential data using a 2 file sort/merge algorithm ? In FORTRAN no less !)

 

[b-boy]

I took a basic and advanced stick welding class about 2 years ago. The local BOCES offered the program. It was ~$700 per class. Well worth the money. Those classes are really well run, and since they're designed for people who will eventually work in the field, you get a lot of real world training.

My favorite class was when they let us use the plasma cutter. I have to get myself one of those.

My plan was to keep going to MIG and TIG, but I got a new job and that kind of killed the plan. Now I'll probably wait until I retire to take the other classes.

 

[bczygan]

All the WCCCD facilities are nice.

And this semester (Full time 12 Credit hours) would have cost me 2K if I had to pay out of pocket.

We just got another load of steel. We use it up like water.

If you are good enough, you can test to get a certification at the end of the class.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Stayed late after yesterdays class to get more practice.

After numerous attempts that got worse and worse, I finally got a better root pass with 6010.

I know, lots of spatter and undercutting and voids.......

Bill

 

[sberry]

Whip and pause is in a straight line. Moving side to side and not pausing long enough and tightening the arc is what causes undercut Ald splatter.
I should have cleaned this first pic, the finish is quite good.
Second is overhead, these are magnified a lot and were not to be perfect but examples. The thing to note is each ripple is a deliberate stroke.
Pic 3 is where the learning curve was going up between the right and the left. These are in the position they were welded in.

 

[bdbecker]

...I know, lots of spatter and undercutting and voids.

Still looks better than a lot of the welds I did when I was first learning!

There will be a day when all the sudden it just clicks. Its the strangest thing, and its really hard to describe, but you'll be watching the puddle one day and all the sudden you'll realize that you've got it figured out. I actually kept the test plates from the day I put down my first "good" stick weld - ran across it a few months ago and put it on my desk in my home office. I've done better welds since then, but man, I was so proud of that weld on that day.

 

[bczygan]

Finally a little better root pass.

Covered it later with a shaky whip and pause and another bead.

On to practice #5, which is filling a 3/32 gap in a pair of 3/32 plates with a whip and pause pass that fills the space and extends below the plates without blowing through...ha ha ha!

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Damn!

Was going to go to both classes today and get up to 12 hours of practice......

But the instructor had a bad tooth problem and cancelled them both!

I'm going to take that extra class every Thursday to try and catch up to the rest of the class. If I finish and pass, I can follow up with a TIG course in a matter of a couple days.

Bill

 

[metalmad]

Your doing good.
Think we've all been there, I did a welding course a few years back, could have done a 6G code the next year but life got in the way. Do I regret it, yeah, but could I have changed things? no, not at the time. (hell and I'm only 36 this year.)

Its interesting as I'm in the UK (Scotland) as for a T fillet we ran 6013, straight passes no weaving or circles (in fact that was frowned on...heavily (and this was taught by time served and coded guys) )

Yet my wife's father was a millwright and coded welder (he's Canadian) and he taught me to do circles and weaves, so obviously some differences in attitudes on each side of the atlantic. (Though the the UK sits between NA and Europe, a lot of Scottish firms do oil and gas work so use the ASME codings and terminology, whereas other firms doing civils work with European firms and use European / British terms.
Way we did it was:
first pass 45 degree angle into the joint, second near vertical, overlapping the first pass, 3rd was along the top edge tying into the first pass and the top edge of the second pass to give a smooth profile (and they brought out the profile gauges)