let's see your craftsman block grinders

[JCMTools]

Halloween Weirdness aka "Haunted Block Grinder".

All,

I have a wiring question on my 397.19670 3/4hp Industrial. I spent some time taking the cast iron base off and found a lot of cob webs. I also found some clean shiny windings. So far, so good. What I didn't find was the galvanized base cover and, therefore, no date stamp. That was a minor let down. What else I found was the remnants of the original switch tucked inside. It is hooked up and is only missing the toggle. I was able to flip the contacts by inserting a small screw driver in the hole where the toggle used to be. That was a good find.

I have the exact same model and there's no base cover on mine either. I wonder if it's because it came with a tool rest/tray base and so didn't need to cover the wiring with a separate plate.

Did yours come with a readable wiring diagram? Mine was beat up and half-covered with cheap paint, so pretty much unreadable. If you have a the diagram, would you be willing to take a photo and post it? I drew out the circuit when I took it apart, but it would be nice to have the diagram as a check.

I found a catalog that lists this model in it, I think. Sears 1972, it cost $109.
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=6894

 

[torqueman2002]

Mystery solved on my 397.19670 backwards On-Off switch. Guess what - it is backwards. I swapped out it with my 1/2hp switch and it worked fine. Then I took the backwards switch apart and someone had taken it apart previously and put back together backwards. That makes sense. I also updated my original post.

I thought one of the LH switch 'tangs' looked like it had been bent out and put back.

The flat top Blocks I've seen with the base that has tool rests and quench tray all together, have had bottom plates, some with date stamps, all with dual voltage wiring diagrams.

 

[McBrownie]

I have the exact same model and there's no base cover on mine either. I wonder if it's because it came with a tool rest/tray base and so didn't need to cover the wiring with a separate plate.

Did yours come with a readable wiring diagram? Mine was beat up and half-covered with cheap paint, so pretty much unreadable. If you have a the diagram, would you be willing to take a photo and post it? I drew out the circuit when I took it apart, but it would be nice to have the diagram as a check.

I found a catalog that lists this model in it, I think. Sears 1972, it cost $109.
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=6894

JCM,

Mine does not have a wiring diagram, but Gilbo just posted a picture of his wiring diagram a couple of messages back. That catalog is interesting. I have a 1/2hp Commercial round top with plastic eye shields and an adhesive label that I thought was from the early '70s. The ones in that catalog have riveted metal name plates and metal framed eye-shields. So, my 1/2hp must be a little newer which is strange because I thought the flat tops came out about 1974.

My 3/4hp is an "Industrial" which pre-dates the "Commercial" line, I believe.
Here is the amazing part. I used a CPI inflation calculator at http://data.bls.gov/ and put in $109 in 1972 and that has the equivalent buying power of $620.70 in today's dollars. Wow!

EDIT: I just looked at the catalog again and my name plate. Mine says Commercial and Industrial rated. I looked at the 1969 and 1972 catalogs and the part has "1967" in it and they both look like mine. So, it must be a late '60s early '70s. Thanks for the information!

 

[McBrownie]

I thought one of the LH switch 'tangs' looked like it had been bent out and put back.

The flat top Blocks I've seen with the base that has tool rests and quench tray all together, have had bottom plates, some with date stamps, all with dual voltage wiring diagrams.

TM,
You could see the tangs in a picture? You are good.

Did your round tops with the cast iron base have bottom covers? I'm thinking mine got left off when they were messing with the switch.

 

[torqueman2002]

TM,
You could see the tangs in a picture? You are good.

Did your round tops with the cast iron base have bottom covers? I'm thinking mine got left off when they were messing with the switch.

Maybe I'm seeing things, anyone else think this looks out of sorts?

I'll be right back, have to pull it apart.

 

[pendragon1998]

If you're just talking about the power cord, then that's fine. It's what I use.

If you're talking about the internal wires, I'm not sure. There may be resistance issues involved that I wouldn't know about.

I was referring to both. The power cord is 16 gauge, I believe, and I am upgrading that to 14 gauge. The internal wiring, I think, is 18 gauge or maybe 16. As far as I can tell from online calculators, a 2' 18 gauge wire gives 0.013 ohms resistance and a 14 gauge is 0.005 ohms - not a huge difference, especially given most wires will be much less than 2'. I just figured 14 gauge would give me a margin of error.

 

[drivesitfar]

Pendragon: I'm not sure I'd use wiring that size on your block. for the small amount you are using i'd just go grab a couple feet at the local hardware store and do it like it was originally. if there weren't a capacitor and other things in the loop i'm sure the bigger wire would be ok. i don't know for sure though so maybe one of the wiring experts will see the posts.

EX and McB and All: since Baldor is the motor on the top belt grinders what do you think if i put one of those sanders on my 3/4 inch buffer? thanks Ex for explaining the difference in the size belts and the availability of the larger size ones. also Ex i saw you made the extension for your grinder so how much for materials and how hard was that to do?

 

[torqueman2002]

Well, looks like 0 for 3 round top Blocks have bottom cover with schematic.

Let me know if you want more pics. of the wiring.

 

[Outlawmws]

I was referring to both. The power cord is 16 gauge, I believe, and I am upgrading that to 14 gauge. The internal wiring, I think, is 18 gauge or maybe 16. As far as I can tell from online calculators, a 2' 18 gauge wire gives 0.013 ohms resistance and a 14 gauge is 0.005 ohms - not a huge difference, especially given most wires will be much less than 2'. I just figured 14 gauge would give me a margin of error.

Changing the gauge of the internal or the external wiring upwards won't do anything detrimental, IF it will fit where it needs to be (access holes...), and bend sufficiently to go where it needs to go. Smaller could be a problem as that could increase resistance and the wires could get hotter than is safe.

 

[Mgnu]

Finally was able to get one off of CL!

1/2 HP, model 397.19340.

Was in real nice shape in my opinion! How can I tell the date of manufacture? The bottom doesn't have a date code stamped into it.

 

[toplessHO]

bought mine new in the 70s for $50
probably not a good deal at the time but I needed one right then.
pulled one wheel off and put a wire wheel on. Its now worn out
looking for a good USA made one for replacement that wont sling
needles everywhere.
I came up with an idea on a stand so I could "wheel" it outside for the big or dirty jobs.
Schedule 40 pipe,flat plate,and retired split rim and OEM tire from my 72 Cheby
3/4 ton.

 

[exmaxima1]

bought mine new in the 70s for $50
probably not a good deal at the time but I needed one right then.
pulled one wheel off and put a wire wheel on. Its now worn out

"Worn out".

Ya think??!!

 

[exmaxima1]

EX and McB and All: since Baldor is the motor on the top belt grinders what do you think if i put one of those sanders on my 3/4 inch buffer? thanks Ex for explaining the difference in the size belts and the availability of the larger size ones. also Ex i saw you made the extension for your grinder so how much for materials and how hard was that to do?

I have my extended 2x42 (made from 2x36) attachment on a Baldor 1/2hp grinder, and to be honest it could use more power. Runs quiet and smooth, but not enough power for coarse grits. My Baldor 2x48 grinder is 1.5 hp, and I only stalled it once, and it was my fault. I think you would be fine with your buffer, knowing that you cannot expect to grind giant pcs with coarse grit.

I got my Multi-tool free, and I made my extension with scrap materials, so I have no idea what it would cost. You would need a mill to duplicate mine. If I did it over, I would buy the 2x48 unit, and use at least 3/4hp at 3450 rpm. Ideally, like my bigger Baldor, get a 3 phase grinder and a VFD---there are times when slower speed is useful.

 

[drivesitfar]

Ex: thanks for the information and heads up on getting a 3 phase one with VFD. i posted a 12 inch 3HP 3 phase Baldor on the vintage thread yesterday if you want to go over there and take a look at a real monster. i'm guessing that one might be a good candidate for a sanding attachment, but it just listed and it's a bit more than i want to spend for a grinder even though it's awesome?

MGNU: that looks like a late 70's early 80's block and also in good shape so congrats. by the way if you are going to set it on the bench and use it like that make sure the rubber feet are all there and in good shape or they are found at Lowes for a good cheap fix.

*******: i'm guessing the wire wheel might need replacing too. i'm not sure I've seen a wire wheel that well used before. welcome to the thread and maybe a little spiffing up after all those years of faithful work is in that block's future?

 

[JCMTools]

Whoops, I forgot to come back and update this thread when I finished my 3/4 HP from my post up top at #101.

View media item 33492
View media item 33493
View media item 33494
I haven't done anything with the eye guards yet, as I'm debating on if I should save them or replace them. Odds are even if I replace them (for what is used) I will save them in case I upgrade and sell this in the future.

Edited to add the Colors used: Rustoleum Hammered Light Blue with Rustoleum Iridescent Pearl All in One Paint and Primer (but over top of a base coat of Rustoleum Flat White since the Pearl doesn't cover for ****!!!!)

I just started paint testing and I'm using Rustoleum Hammered Light Blue like Teter for the castings and I thought I'd try Rustoleum Metallic Titanium Silver for the center panel.

Questions:
How many coats of paint do people use for the hammered?

How I get a nice smooth surface on the sheet metal center panel with the metallic paint? Do I need to apply clear gloss and do some wet sanding and polishing or just keep going on the coats?

 

[zkling]

bought mine new in the 70s for $50
probably not a good deal at the time but I needed one right then.
pulled one wheel off and put a wire wheel on. Its now worn out
looking for a good USA made one for replacement that wont sling
needles everywhere.
I came up with an idea on a stand so I could "wheel" it outside for the big or dirty jobs.
Schedule 40 pipe,flat plate,and retired split rim and OEM tire from my 72 Cheby
3/4 ton.

You had one wire wheel for ~40 years?

 

[toplessHO]

You had one wire wheel for ~40 years?

no but Im sure its at least 25 yrs old ;^)

 

[Teter09]

I just started paint testing and I'm using Rustoleum Hammered Light Blue like Teter for the castings and I thought I'd try Rustoleum Metallic Titanium Silver for the center panel.

Questions:
How many coats of paint do people use for the hammered?

How I get a nice smooth surface on the sheet metal center panel with the metallic paint? Do I need to apply clear gloss and do some wet sanding and polishing or just keep going on the coats?

JCM, Prep is KING in the world of paint. I always abide by the 7 P's.....

Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

The Hammered depends on what effect you want. Sometimes I just want the color....with no 'hammering' so I use light coats and fewer of them. I liked the casting look of the grinder, so I just wanted the paint to look good, thus 3-4 lighter coats and NEVER thick. The Hammered effect comes when the paint is applied thicker. Even then, I typically save that heavier coat until the final one.

That center sheet metal piece was stripped of all paint to bare metal, primed and then sanded (rinse and repeat a few times) in order to get it baby **** smooth so I could proceed with the paint. Even then, its LIGHT coats. On smooth items like that I think I did 4-5 coats, with only the final one being the pearl.

 

[JCMTools]

JCM, Prep is KING in the world of paint. I always abide by the 7 P's.....

Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

The Hammered depends on what effect you want. Sometimes I just want the color....with no 'hammering' so I use light coats and fewer of them. I liked the casting look of the grinder, so I just wanted the paint to look good, thus 3-4 lighter coats and NEVER thick. The Hammered effect comes when the paint is applied thicker. Even then, I typically save that heavier coat until the final one.

That center sheet metal piece was stripped of all paint to bare metal, primed and then sanded (rinse and repeat a few times) in order to get it baby **** smooth so I could proceed with the paint. Even then, its LIGHT coats. On smooth items like that I think I did 4-5 coats, with only the final one being the pearl.

Thanks Teter. Sanding and final prep is my downfall. I'll get some primer and work on the center panel.

 

[JCMTools]

What looks to be a 3/4hp 7" block in Providence. $50.

http://providence.craigslist.org/tls/4737745154.html

 

[JCMTools]

Well, looks like 0 for 3 round top Blocks have bottom cover with schematic.

Let me know if you want more pics. of the wiring.

TMan - This photo helps answer a question on what goes between the grinder and quench tray base. Mine came with a large sheet of rubber between the two and it didn't look original. I wonder if that trapped water a bit and contributed to the rust problem on mine.

 

[drivesitfar]

JCM: Teter's 7 P's is an awesome way to say that Prep is everything.

Teter: very nice way to outline how to do a great job with spray paint on our blocks or most any metal.

ALL: also one thing i mentioned before and will again is make sure to warm up the shop to about 60 or 70 is perfect or try to warm up the part you are spraying and find a warm spot for it to cure now that temperatures are cooling down.

good luck

 

[torqueman2002]

What looks to be a 3/4hp 7" block in Providence. $50.

http://providence.craigslist.org/tls/4737745154.html

My vote is YES.

Go get it!

3/4 and 1 HP are hard to find.

 

[torqueman2002]

TMan - This photo helps answer a question on what goes between the grinder and quench tray base. Mine came with a large sheet of rubber between the two and it didn't look original. I wonder if that trapped water a bit and contributed to the rust problem on mine.

I wouldn't be surprised if the rubber sheet did trap water and promote more rust.

 

[torqueman2002]

What do you think of this?

CL ad doesn't list brand/model #, or HP. It does run.

Is it worth $25?

I'm thinking, the e-Stop button is worth that.

 

[nine4gmc]

I'm thinking that is the plastic version of a block grinder and you can get an emergency stop button from fleabay for under $2 shipped.

Stop Button: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=emergency+stop+button&_sop=15

 

[torqueman2002]

ALL: also one thing i mentioned before and will again is make sure to warm up the shop to about 60 or 70 is perfect or try to warm up the part you are spraying and find a warm spot for it to cure now that temperatures are cooling down.

good luck

Good information.

I've had good luck warming up spray cans that were in an unheated space, using Mrs. Torqueman's crock-pot with water, to pretty-up this small Wilton. (sorry for the non-Block content )

The set up.

 

[torqueman2002]

I'm thinking that is the plastic version of a block grinder and you can get an emergency stop button from fleabay for under $2 shipped.

Stop Button: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=emergency+stop+button&_sop=15

gmc - Thanks.

I was thinking a Rockler e-Stop like I got for my t-saw; $34.99 & Free Shipping.

http://www.amazon.com/Rockler-Safety-Power-Tool-Switch/dp/B001DT13B2/ref=sr_1_12?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1414889872&sr=1-12&keywords=emergency+stop+button

Anyway, I popped for grubby 'Block' grinder.

Turns out there was more to the set up (and less, more on that elsewhere) than the poor and single CL picture.

There's this other yellow box.

Found one on Amazon.

Sensing-Saf-Start Model 1997
Anti-automatic Restart Protection a mandatory OSHA safety requirement. Provides protection against unexpected start-up, motion, and motor burn-out.
$197.02 + $7.38 shipping
http://www.amazon.com/Saf-Start-Cord-Plug-15A-120V/dp/B0085AOYQS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414887476&sr=8-1&keywords=Saf-Start+Cord+w%2FPlug%2C+8+ft%2C+15A%2C+120V

I'm glad I gambled and picked it up.

Now, about that 'Block' grinder. See my post here. ---> (Link being created, please check back.)
Link --> http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4352836#post4352836

 

[JCMTools]

My vote is YES.

Go get it!

3/4 and 1 HP are hard to find.

I wish. I'm in the middle of working on my 1st block, with another in the queue. I just thought that someone might be interested.

 

[nine4gmc]

The crock pot and fluke meter cracked me up, I think my girl would flip the f out on me and the crock pot is mine

 

[Thumper68]

Picked this one up today at a auction, not bad for $50 base on the stand is not quite flat have to see about that when I clean it up.

It was a school district auction and it is stenciled with the name of the Jr high that I went to, and I seem to remember using it or one just like it in metal shop.

It runs whisper quiet and took a good 3 minutes to spool down.

 

[torqueman2002]

Picked this one up today at a auction, not bad for $50 base on the stand is not quite flat have to see about that when I clean it up.

It was a school district auction and it is stenciled with the name of the Jr high that I went to, and I seem to remember using it or one just like it in metal shop.

It runs whisper quiet and took a good 3 minutes to spool down.

Awesome!

I'd be all about painting over the stenciled name, but I'm a bit sentimental about some things!

 

[torqueman2002]

The crock pot and fluke meter cracked me up, I think my girl would flip the f out on me and the crock pot is mine

Mrs. Torqueman busted me for that roll of aluminum foil just today!

It went for a good cause, we had turkey and the fixings for dinner tonight.

 

[nine4gmc]

Right on Torque, I think I'd leave that stencil there if I went to the school. Wait, what am I thinking, I would definitely leave that stencil there if I went to the school!

 

[Thumper68]

Awesome!

I'd be all about painting over the stenciled name, but I'm a bit sentimental about some things!

Right on Torque, I think I'd leave that stencil there if I went to the school. Wait, what am I thinking, I would definitely leave that stencil there if I went to the school!

Oh the stencil is staying, I need to take a closer look and figure out the date that it could have been put in service and see if it was possably there when I was.

 

[drivesitfar]

TM: I've never heard much less seen cans of spray paint in a crock pot. thanks for sharing and tell the Mrs. thanks too for letting you do your thing. by the way the Wilton looks great and can we really have too many pictures of these old grinders and vises?

Thumper: nice find at that school's auction and it should clean up nicely if you decide to do so.

 

[Thumper68]

Doesn't everyone keep an old crock pot in the shop?

I have one that comes in handy for all kinds of stuff from heating spray cans to heating water to soften plastic slip fit parts. When I was in the paintball rental bus had to have it handy for putting the elbows on the hoppers and guns.

I have even used it to heat up a can of beef stew for lunch.

The main use now is for the hide glue pot since my old purpose built elec hide glue pot died and I don't use it enough anymore to justify buying a new one.

 

[drivesitfar]

All: i'm hoping to put an oven in my shop garage in the near future which might help with the painting projects during the winters. i don't want to risk putting my projects in the family's oven because if i got caught i think i would be wrapped in tin foil and cooked by my bride.

 

[nine4gmc]

Lmao Drives, I picked up a freebie off CL a while back and planned to use it as the shop oven but found it brought more money on Ebay in parts than rent I will be looking for another freebie in the future though for powder coating and paint temps.

 

[torqueman2002]

An oven in the shop! Hmmmmm ....

Heat parts for painting, powder coating, heating interference parts-ring gears on a 1966 MGB flywheel, ... chicken pot pies, potatoes!

Brilliant!