let's see your craftsman block grinders

[lafester]

I agree. liquid tape and maybe cover everything with some heat shrink tube.
Messing with those other wires will not improve performance.

 

[torqueman2002]

X3 - liquid electrical tape on the 'brown' wire. It started out as a red wire, and the 'yellow' wire was once white!

I'm not sure, but I think I see something about the relay and power switch, that I'd like a closer look at.

Relay looks like it might have over heating traces, and the power switch, looks like one of the terminals is pulled out further from the body than the other.


BTW - What is the HP & model number?


This wiring diagram may help. The relay may not be identical, but functions the same.

 

[JayS]

Hi, I've been lurking for a while and this grinder thread caught my eye. I have a 1/2 hp 397.19521 . It ran fine when I stopped using it years ago to restore it. I just plugged it in and its spinning very slow now. Maybe brushes? Anyone know where to buy them? I considered selling it but not sure what its worth.

 

[torqueman2002]

Hi, I've been lurking for a while and this grinder thread caught my eye. I have a 1/2 hp 397.19521 . It ran fine when I stopped using it years ago to restore it. I just plugged it in and its spinning very slow now. Maybe brushes? Anyone know where to buy them? I considered selling it but not sure what its worth.

These Block motors are induction style and do not have brushes & armatures.

Did you dis-assemble it to restore it, let it sit, or ...?

If it's not coming up to normal speed, remove the grinding and/or wire wheels, arbor nuts and flanges. With it unplugged, insure it spins by hand freely and evenly. Turn it on and see if it comes up to normal speed.

Don't let it stall or labor. It should come up to speed in a couple of seconds. Turn it off if it's taking too long. It can be damaged.


Good luck, let us know how it goes.

 

[lafester]

Nice pre-block you have there, although that lamp looks out of place.
The starter switch could be stuck open or the capacitor could be weak.
If you had it apart it may not be perfectly lined up causing drag.

Selling is a tough one as local buyers most likely will not see the value you have here, and shipping is a pain. Personally I would not let it go for less then $150, double that on ebay.

Hi, I've been lurking for a while and this grinder thread caught my eye. I have a 1/2 hp 397.19521 . It ran fine when I stopped using it years ago to restore it. I just plugged it in and its spinning very slow now. Maybe brushes? Anyone know where to buy them? I considered selling it but not sure what its worth.

 

[JayS]

Thanks for the replies.

I did not have it apart. It worked fine when I set it aside and spun for what seemed like minutes after it was shut off. I was just going to replace the dried out cord and paint it but never got to it. I have another grinder so there was no rush. I was showing it to my son who asked about it sitting on a shelf in the basement when I plugged it in and it ran slow. The motor spins free with the grinding wheels installed. It takes a couple seconds for it to hit its slow top speed. The lamp looks different because it has the original plastic cover over the metal bulb shield. It's a snap on fit so most grinders this old dont have the cover anymore. Power switch is good. I cant list it in the classifieds since I dont have enough posts yet. I'm in Pennsylvania (18976) - I guess its too heavy to ship if anyone is interested.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

I'm interested, but price will obviously be lower than it would if it were running. I'm rolling through PA sometime next week. If you live somewhere not too far off the beaten path for me, I'd be interested. Shoot me a message if you'd like to discuss it.

 

[JayS]

My post count isnt high enough to send a message yet LOL. You can message me? Or eventually I'll have enough posts......

 

[M. Blue 240]

I agree. liquid tape and maybe cover everything with some heat shrink tube.
Messing with those other wires will not improve performance.

Thanks guys. I'll get some more pictures tomorrow. My initial thought was to solder in a new wire and get heat shrink down as tight as I can to the spool. Every wire is so stiff it feels like insulation will crack if you try to flex them.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Message sent Jay.

 

[JayS]

I tried to reply but they wont let me do that either since I dont have enough posts. You can try sending me a message through email - maybe I can reply to that.....

 

[Old Radar]

I won't say anything bad about a member who joined 10 years ago but still doesn't have the required number of posts to PM or post pictures, but you could reply to this post and then you will!

 

[JayS]

I figured someone would bust my chops for that ... I've learned a lot here and even got discount on racedeck flooring for my garage years ago by being a member. I guess I'm the quiet type LOL. My garage and basement workshop are functional, but not pretty, so I haven't posted any pictures.

 

[JayS]

Turns out that you need 10 posts to send a private message. ( you can send a message to a select few members after 5 posts) But I was able to finally send a message through Email!

 

[threeputt]

I figured someone would bust my chops for that ... I've learned a lot here and even got discount on racedeck flooring for my garage years ago by being a member. I guess I'm the quiet type LOL. My garage and basement workshop are functional, but not pretty, so I haven't posted any pictures.

Lets see it anyway. If its a mess then you been busy. If its clean like mine the you been goofing off
Got any Craftsman block grinders hiding in that workshop

 

[JayS]

OK - I'll get around to posting some pics soon. I have to clean up a little first- I'm 1/2 way done building a bar in my living room and have a real mess in the garage next to my Camaro and Harley now.
I did post pics of the pre-block(?) craftsman grinder a few days ago...

 

[djbandhcb]

I've got a Craftsman 3/4HP, Model 397.19671 with what I think is a bad starting relay...It's the Klixon 4CR-21-713 (4 posts). Post No. 1 is loose and I'm suspect is the problem. Any suggestion on where to find a replacement?

 

[Bugeyed Earl]

I've got a Craftsman 3/4HP, Model 397.19671 with what I think is a bad starting relay...It's the Klixon 4CR-21-713 (4 posts). Post No. 1 is loose and I'm suspect is the problem. Any suggestion on where to find a replacement?

They seem pretty difficult to find, I’ve been keeping an eye on eBay, but no luck yet. There are other brands that should work fine in theory, but I don’t know any specifics. FYI, your image doesn’t show up, but we’ve seen these relays before, so probably not needed.

 

[mikegt4]

Good luck, my son's 1/2hp block (19590) needs a relay (2CR15-205H3A) and I have yet to find one after 3 years of looking. About the only way to get one is buy another block for the part are find someone parting one out.

I have been hoping that some electronics genius could come up with a modern day DIY replacement or at least figure out which of the currently available relays would work. Sensata owns Klixon now but I have always found these old relays to be NLA.

https://www.sensata.com/sites/default/files/a/sensata-4cr series-motor starting relay-datasheet.pdf

 

[Bugeyed Earl]

There’s also the option of bypassing the relay with another switch, the previous owner of one of mine did that in an inelegant fashion, but it could probably be done with less of a hack.

 

[djbandhcb]

I noticed my pic didn't post...not sure why. I've scoured the internet and I'm finding nothing promising for this particular relay. Loosing hope to be honest. Thanks for the double switch hack idea...I need to think on that for a minute and see if thats my only option. I'll see if there are other responses before I create my own relay...

I'll try the pic again...I know this group knows what I'm talking about. Any other work arounds out there? Am I selling this thing for parts!?...ouch...I don't want to go there!

 

[Isaiah6113]

Lol, someone’s a Red Meat fan. I’ve always been partial to the psychosis of Milk Man Dan.

Great strip,

M.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Bugeyed Earl]

Lol, someone’s a Red Meat fan. I’ve always been partial to the psychosis of Milk Man Dan.

Great strip,

M.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yep, I've always related to ol' Earl, and (sadly) bear a more than passing resemblance

 

[Bugeyed Earl]

I noticed my pic didn't post...not sure why. I've scoured the internet and I'm finding nothing promising for this particular relay. Loosing hope to be honest. Thanks for the double switch hack idea...I need to think on that for a minute and see if thats my only option. I'll see if there are other responses before I create my own relay...

I'll try the pic again...I know this group knows what I'm talking about. Any other work arounds out there? Am I selling this thing for parts!?...ouch...I don't want to go there!

That one looks way too clean to give up on! Are you able to get it going by spinning a wheel by hand, and then switching it on? If it comes up to speed in a few seconds like that, I'd agree that it's the relay.

If mine didn't already have two extra holes drilled in for the toggles, I would have looked for a "off-on-momentary on" rocker or toggle switch. That would be a clean workaround, and would operate just like an ignition switch - from off, you push past the first on position and then let go.

 

[FrankLee]

If I was sure the relay was bad, I’d be opening that up to take a look.

 

[Nexoidian]

Just picked up this 1/3hp. I’m excited about the sander on the right side. Does anyone know anything about it? I thought I had seen it in catalogs in the past, but of course can’t find it now. It looks properly mounted so I’d assume it’s a craftsman attachment. Any info is appreciated

 

[Nexoidian]

Here’s a picture of the sander side disassembled

 

[djbandhcb]

If I was sure the relay was bad, I’d be opening that up to take a look.

Can you expand? Why would I open it up if I know it’s the relay? I must be missing something...I love to tinker but my "tinker project" list isn't getting any shorter.

 

[FrankLee]

The first page of that sensata pdf above indicates there are moving parts inside. Maybe contacts could be cleaned or something repaired. If it’s not working, there’s nothing to lose.

 

[djbandhcb]

That one looks way too clean to give up on! Are you able to get it going by spinning a wheel by hand, and then switching it on? If it comes up to speed in a few seconds like that, I'd agree that it's the relay.

If mine didn't already have two extra holes drilled in for the toggles, I would have looked for a "off-on-momentary on" rocker or toggle switch. That would be a clean workaround, and would operate just like an ignition switch - from off, you push past the first on position and then let go.

Right!? Doesn't look/feel as old as it really is. I like your switch idea. I tried to spin it and get it going but I turned it off probably too quick and the tool rest caught/bit my finger...ha. So not a real successful test. I'll wire it up and try that again.

 

[Outlawmws]

On the "Cludged switch fix" IIR it was turn both on and then the "starter" switch was turned off?

If that's the case, and an "Off-On-Momentary On" switch could be found...

See where I'm going here? one switch, (probably double pole) and the Momentary part is held until it starts cranking and when released, the center "On" part takes over. one pole has the motor mains tied to both momentary, and the "on" the other only the momentary for the Starter.

That ONLY If I remembered the "fix" right...

 

[M. Blue 240]

Man this thread moves quick, I had to go back two pages to see my post lol.

This is the 1/3hp I need to repair wiring on.

20210128_115901 by M. Blue 240, on Flickr

This is my work horse 1/2hp. The finish is in worse shape, but it runs like a top. Once the 1.3 is up and running I may dig into this one.

20210128_115919 by M. Blue 240, on Flickr

 

[damon18]

Picked up a third block today (what have you done to me!). Weird thing is I've bought three blocks now with intentions of "fixing them up" and all three are the same part number 397.19580, so hopefully I can get one good working one out of the three.

This one came with a home made lightweight stand, probably won't use it because it takes up a ton of floor space. It also came with two attachments. I've seen the drill attachment before, got one on one of the other blocks.

I've never seen the wide attachment on the left, the only number is 9012 and a 2 stamped/cast into the back. Someone point me to instructions for that?

The other stuff from the garage sale is here, paid $32 for everything.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8921727&postcount=422

Thanks,

 

[cajunfirehawk]

I've never seen the wide attachment on the left, the only number is 9012 and a 2 stamped/cast into the back.

Common block attachment...not mine just a pic on the inter-webs, I'm sure one of the others will post instructions shortly.

 

[Outlawmws]

I have one of the blade grinding attachments NIB Damon. need to try it one day...

 

[damon18]

Common block attachment...not mine just a pic on the inter-webs, I'm sure one of the others will post instructions shortly.

From your picture it looks like mine is missing the handle on the front.

Sent from my SM-G973U using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[damon18]

From your picture it looks like mine is missing the handle on the front.

Sent from my SM-G973U using The Garage Journal mobile app

Found this document on Vintage Machinery so there must be different styles without the crank.
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4795

Sent from my SM-G973U using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[11b30b4]

Good news guys, the metal lamp shade/ heat shield from my lamp parts is a good alternative if you need a lamp shade. The “Metal Green Parabola Shade” can be ordered from My Lamp Parts here:

https://www.mylampparts.com/product...MIq9GM35C37gIVUtbACh2SmAwoEAQYAiABEgKclPD_BwE

These run $9.95 but the company has a minimum order of $50.00 so if you order only 1 lamp shade, then you will be charged a $5.00 fee. This brings the cost to 14.95 plus shipping (~ $8.20).

On my 7” ¾ HP (397.19350) the metal lamp shade is part # 4971959. This lamp shade is a near copy of the factory part. The part number may be different for the various grinders but the metal lamp shade should be the same for all of them.

So how does this reproduction match up to the factory part? It is nearly identical in size, shape, and material. It is a simple piece of stamp steel. In fact, the only noticeable differences are the mounting collar and the absence of the top screw hole to mount the plastic shade.

Here are some side by side pics of an original shade and the reproduction.

View media item 110094
View media item 110096
View media item 110098
View media item 110095
View media item 110097
The ring mount on the original shade is integral to the shade.

View media item 110099
While the ring mount on the reproduction is a separate part that is attach by two small rivets, it can be swung but is fairly stiff and should be adequate for our purposes.

View media item 110100
So, anyone looking for a metal lamp shade for their grinder should consider this option. If you want to add the plastic lamp shade to the metal shade, this can be easily accomplished by drilling a hole in the top and using a small screw to attach the plastic shade.

For anyone looking to add the entire flexible lamp to a grinder that does not have one, you can order these parts that were posted previously to complete your build.

Metal Lamp Shade ($9.95 + $5.00 + shipping)
https://www.mylampparts.com/product...MIq9GM35C37gIVUtbACh2SmAwoEAQYAiABEgKclPD_BwE

18” Flexible Goose Neck – Nickel Plated ($19.50 + shipping)
https://www.grandbrass.com/item/pign18np/

1/8”-27 Hex Head Nut ($0.04 + shipping)
https://www.grandbrass.com/item/nu233/

Leviton Keyless Socket – Nickel Plated ($2.50 + shipping)
https://www.grandbrass.com/item/sol9347np/

Good luck with your builds.

 

[larry4406]

Have you tried to remove the green coating from the reproduction lamp shade?

 

[11b30b4]

Larry4406, I have not tried to remove the paint; however, I am confident that Jasco Premium Paint and Epoxy Remover (read the safety instructions) and/ or a wire wheel will do the trick nicely. Sand as I did in my build then polish if you want a mirror like finish.