Looking for Recommendations for a Plasma Cutter

[Squez]

I have had my primeweld for around 4/5 years.. its made me thousands of dollars.. the first one just one day decided to stop working called up primeweld and they had one on my doorstep within days… I wouldn’t hesitate to buy anything from them as the cus service is top notch in my experience.

 

[ItsNemo]

Dude, c'mon. No one here is saying that a $200-$800 machine is suitable to work anywhere close to 8 hours a day at anywhere close to 100% rating. We're talking about a machine for very, very... occasional home hobby use. Again, I'm not paying $2k for a plasma cutter for 30 minutes use a year, 99% of which will be for less than 1/4" thick steel at a few minutes at a time.

Just like I don't need a $200 Snap on ratchet when a $40 gearwrench works just as well.

The guy quoted 100% duty cycle...it won't do it, no way. Does everyone here actually trust the specs of these chinese plasma cutters? That was the point.

 

[finn]

I’d throw ESAB in there too, but it appears they are branded Thermal Dynamics now.

Best I can tell, ESAB bought Thermal Dynamics out of bankruptcy.

 

[Jswain]

The guy quoted 100% duty cycle...it won't do it, no way. Does everyone here actually trust the specs of these chinese plasma cutters? That was the point.

Buy one for your YouTube channel and show us how weak it is to hypertherm dollar for dollar. If you can kill it so quickly then you can return it to Amazon.

I can tell you, from experience using the herocut that I own, that the duty cycle is a lot higher then the 20% you quoted.

Put your money where your mouth is, as pointless as an argument it is because handheld plasma cutting you'll probably never hit duty cycle with any machine on the market. Maybe large artwork

 

[babyseal]

It's just that I have had the displeasure of cheap tools just failing immediately - not even providing $200 of use. So I tend to shoot for medium quality or something with a good warranty.

It's Amazon. It fails immediately, you stuff it back in the box, dump it off at the UPS drop off. If it fails on day 31, it's figured in the price. By then, I'll have gotten $200 worth of playing around out of it. I call that, "cheap entertainment".

Some of my favorite tools are "cheap tools". Best floor jack I own, small one I paid $14.99 for new when I was a pup. Still use it. I've rebuilt it several times, replaced the wheels, and it just keeps going. Still use the New Britain tools that came in my school starter box pretty much daily. While my "not cheap" tools mostly stay locked up in their tool boxes. Some of which haven't been opened in years.

 

[jbfab]

I've used several over the years. Hypertherm is definitely the gold standard, but based on your described use case it would certainly be overkill. Not to mention, their consumables are also priced as if they were made of gold (especially the new SYNC stuff). Next you have a host of others playing second fiddle - but barely second. These are your familiar names: Thermal Dynamics, Miller, Esab, maybe HTP fits in this category. I'll add Lincoln, but they'd have to pay me to take any of their machines, but that's a story for another day. Then of course you have cheap machines designed and built overseas and imported here. I can't speak for the quality of all of them, but I do have a personal experience.

About 5 years ago I found myself needing(or strongly wanting) a plasma cutter to complete a paying project. I did not want to lose all profits (or more) on a "name brand" machine, so I purchased an import with the mantra that "if it only lasts through this project, it's paid for". That was 5 years ago, and it's still cutting like the day I got it. I still feel sheepish inside about owning it, as I consider myself a professional and want to use quality equipment, but I can't complain about the value of the machine. It certainly isn't used daily, but for how often I use it, it's serving me well. The machine I purchased was an Amico Cut 50HF. It cuts 1/2 and severs 1" and has a 60% duty cycle at full amperage currently priced at $369.

CUT-50HF, 50 Amp Non-touch Pilot Arc Plasma Cutter, 100~250V Wide Voltage, 3/5 inch Clean Cut.

CUT-50HF is a newly designed with the meter and adjustment attached to the front of the machine and the filter is located inside the machine. The new and improved model makes it more convenient and…

www.amicoelectric.com

By comparison, the closest CURRENT model of Hypertherm available is a Powermax 65 priced at $4,000. If you can handle slightly less cut capacity there is a Powermax 30 but it's still priced at $1,860, and neither of the machines have a duty cycle rated more than the Amico (actually slightly less).

Now all that said, is the cut quality of the Amico the SAME as a Hypertherm/Thermal Dynamics/Miller? No. Is it different enough to make me go out and replace it right away? For my use, also no. I would describe it like this: You can get very similar results to the high dollar machines on thinner material (1/4 and under) fairly easily. With good technique you can get closer on the bigger material. This includes using a good drag shield, using a straight edge, maintaining consistent travel speed, being sure to cut arcs going the correct way, slowing way down while cutting arcs. Of course YMMV, one thing we all come to expect from a better brand associated with America is quality, ordering an overseas unit I would expect the chances of getting a unit DOA is higher. I did not have that experience and cannot speak to their customer service. I can speak to Lincoln Electrics customer service (hence the comment earlier), and I would take my chances with anyone else. Last comparison before I end this entirely long winded post a SINGLE SYNC consumable for a Hypertherm costs $55, a set of cheap amazon consumables for an AG60 torch (like the Amico uses) is less than $25 and includes 25 nozzles, 25 electrodes, 10 cups, and a couple of drag shields.

 

[BlackLS2]

I got a Jegs Cut40 about 4 years ago. Use it 3 to 4x a year....been sweet!

 

[bad_idea]

You all have convinced me, I will buy a cheapie when I get home to play with. I plan on cutting up my Jeep XJ for bigger wheel wells and 2x6 rockers. A plasma would be great, if only for hacking out a bulk of the material, doing the final cuts with a grinder. As said, I'll run it hard that first month and keep it if it lives.

Thanks all.

 

[babyseal]

You all have convinced me, I will buy a cheapie when I get home to play with. I plan on cutting up my Jeep XJ for bigger wheel wells and 2x6 rockers. A plasma would be great, if only for hacking out a bulk of the material, doing the final cuts with a grinder. As said, I'll run it hard that first month and keep it if it lives.

Thanks all.

Open it up and use it immediately. Common theme with the cheapies is that they've got a higher chance of being DOA, damaged, or have issues right out of the box. You want to ID those issues (if you're buying from Amazon, for example) so you can just ship it right back to Amazon and not have to **** with the manufacturer and/or their questionable warranty. If they're GTG out of the box, mostly seem to do just fine. If it's got issues...send it right back, don't even play with it, tell them you want another or your money back. Heck, if you don't like it, tell them it's broke and send it back...

 

[NUTTSGT]

Buy what you want but I learned that lesson on my first plasma cutter. I had been eyeballing and drooling for a while. TSC had a Forney 20P rated to cut 1/4" for $400. I caught it on sale one Sunday morning while sitting around the breakfast table at the station for $200. I had a 10% off coupon to add to the deal. I fired up the laptop, ordered and picked it up after they opened that morning.

Rated for 1/4" ? Yeah on a good day and struggled with 3/16". Sheetmetal it was fine. Definitely not impressed. It was sold off on CL and I found a deal on Cyberweld for a Hobart 27i rated for 5/8" 30A @ 240V.

Long story short, buy one bigger than you are wanting, the time will come when you want to cut the thicker stuff. . . probably before you know it.

 

[Jswain]

Buy what you want but I learned that lesson on my first plasma cutter. I had been eyeballing and drooling for a while. TSC had a Forney 20P rated to cut 1/4" for $400. I caught it on sale one Sunday morning while sitting around the breakfast table at the station for $200. I had a 10% off coupon to add to the deal. I fired up the laptop, ordered and picked it up after they opened that morning.

Rated for 1/4" ? Yeah on a good day and struggled with 3/16". Sheetmetal it was fine. Definitely not impressed. It was sold off on CL and I found a deal on Cyberweld for a Hobart 27i rated for 5/8" 30A @ 240V.

Long story short, buy one bigger than you are wanting, the time will come when you want to cut the thicker stuff. . . probably before you know it.

A Forney 20p 20amp plasma cutter vs an Amazon 50a is like comparing a ball pein & a 5lb sledgehammer.

If you're going non big name go 50amp. Hypertherm/miller/esab etc. 30a will do 1/4", I wouldn't trust anything else

My herocut 50amp will cut 1/4" beautifully if I use a straight edge

 

[Sumboodie]

Looks like that one comes with an AG60 torch so you should be good to go. Look on Amazon for AG60 consumables and buy a pack from riverweld or similar and you'll be good for a long time.

It is 100% usable right out of the box, but I put a leather torch cover on mine as well which I would recommend, and put a longer 12g power cord on it but this may or may not be necessary to you.

Dedicate a metal speed square to leave with it, and take off the corners of the square on the 90 degree joint then this can be used as a straight edge to guide the torch for anything straight and 6" or shorter. Keep a longer piece of ~3/16" flatbar to dedicate as a straight edge as well. So fast to cutup material

I just freehand everything. Mark it and cut.
Takes a bit of practice and not too many Redbulls though

 

[Jswain]

I just freehand everything. Mark it and cut.
Takes a bit of practice and not too many Redbulls though

I do odd shapes freehand, but if I can help it I don't.

Some people are like an artist with a plasma torch tho lol

 

[u3b3rg33k]

+I'm not sure of budget at this point. This is a desire, not a need. I typically subscribe to the 'buy once, cry once' motto. BUT, $350 does look inviting compared to $1900 for same capabilities. Can buy several Chinese plasma cutters at $350 each before you hit $1900.

I got a SUPERULTRA 206i for 700ish.

PrimeWeld has six plasma cutters in their portfolio, and their customers go Gaga over the Cut60, which is their most expensive unit at $699, with a three year warranty. The cheapest is $289.

PrimeWeld pays for shipping both ways if warranty work is required.

at that price point I'd suggest checking out Everlast. I'm happy with what I have at the upper end of that. if you don't have other tools, it might be worth considering the multiprocess stuff. get more toys for the price of one!

To me, even if the Primeweld is the same guts inside as the cheaper Amazon machines, the price premium is worth it if they offer support and service.

I'm not even old yet, and I'm over getting hosed by cheap junk with no support and service. I love that I can call up Lincoln and still get parts, schematics and wiring diagrams for my ~15 year old MIG machine. I love that Hyperthem still supports and helps diagnoses plasma cutters pushing 30+ years old.

absolutely worth buying from someone who supports their stuff. Mine is an Everlast, and when my HF start board died, they helped me troubleshoot it and then replaced it once it was determined to be faulty.

Ok, buy one, run 40 amps solid for hours on end, I'll wait...

Hint: there's no way in hell it does it.

it's definitely worth checking duty cycles. I got a multi process machine for myself, and I'm happy with it. 35% plasma duty cycle (40C, 10 min window) at max power, and, well, that might not sound like much but you'll run out of stuff to cut pretty dang fast. at 25 amps I can write my name in cursive in sched 40 pipe, and it'll do that all day.

happy enough we got the same brand at work, dedicated machine rated 60% @ 50A/ 100V 100% @ 40A/ 96V, and I ran out of inch thick plate to hand cut before duty cycle became an issue. lemme tell ya that's a slow cut.

cuts nice tho

Buy what you want but I learned that lesson on my first plasma cutter. I had been eyeballing and drooling for a while. TSC had a Forney 20P rated to cut 1/4" for $400. I caught it on sale one Sunday morning while sitting around the breakfast table at the station for $200. I had a 10% off coupon to add to the deal. I fired up the laptop, ordered and picked it up after they opened that morning.

Rated for 1/4" ? Yeah on a good day and struggled with 3/16". Sheetmetal it was fine. Definitely not impressed. It was sold off on CL and I found a deal on Cyberweld for a Hobart 27i rated for 5/8" 30A @ 240V.

Long story short, buy one bigger than you are wanting, the time will come when you want to cut the thicker stuff. . . probably before you know it.

you can always turn the power down, can't turn it up past max!

EDIT: I didn't see anyone mention DRY AIR

you need DRY AIR to feed a plasma cutter. at a minimum something like this filter/seperator/regulator/dryer doodad:

 

[NUTTSGT]

A Forney 20p 20amp plasma cutter vs an Amazon 50a is like comparing a ball pein & a 5lb sledgehammer.

If you're going non big name go 50amp. Hypertherm/miller/esab etc. 30a will do 1/4", I wouldn't trust anything else

My herocut 50amp will cut 1/4" beautifully if I use a straight edge

you can always turn the power down, can't turn it up past max!

Exactly correct, easy to turn down but the knob only allows you to go so high with the smaller amps available.

That's why I would suggest buying more plasma cutter than you think you need, the first go round.

 

[Jswain]

Just thought I would show what a cheap 50a plasma cutter can produce on 1/4" plate. So that people can decide for themselves. This is a 5 year old herocut cutpro50i

Just a straight edge used to cut, didn't grind any mill scale or rust off it as you can see. Even used the same old consumables that were in the torch. Unit set for 50a and air pressure 60psi. Cut took probably 30-45 seconds. Minimal dross which was knocked off with a chipping hammer and then edges got about a 15 second bevel with a regular grinding disc on an angle grinder

Maybe someone with a hypertherm/miller/esab/thermal dynamics 30/45 can chime in and post similar pictures on a 2ft long 1/4" steel non CNC cut so we can see the difference in quality.

 

[Jswain]

And this is how I like to modify my speed square to allow the torch to pass without hitting. For short straight 90/45 cuts this is the way to go

 

[Mallen]

Buy what you want but I learned that lesson on my first plasma cutter. I had been eyeballing and drooling for a while. TSC had a Forney 20P rated to cut 1/4" for $400. I caught it on sale one Sunday morning while sitting around the breakfast table at the station for $200. I had a 10% off coupon to add to the deal. I fired up the laptop, ordered and picked it up after they opened that morning.

Rated for 1/4" ? Yeah on a good day and struggled with 3/16". Sheetmetal it was fine. Definitely not impressed. It was sold off on CL and I found a deal on Cyberweld for a Hobart 27i rated for 5/8" 30A @ 240V.

Long story short, buy one bigger than you are wanting, the time will come when you want to cut the thicker stuff. . . probably before you know it.

At 180 dollars you just can't go wrong. That falls in line with my theory on trying new things. In many cases it makes sense not to go for the expensive stuff right away. If the cheap stuff is actually cheap, as opposed to some "cheap" stuff that costs 1000 dollars, you get the absolute cheapest thing you can find.

For example ,when I decided to take up fishing, I bought a 20 dollar rod and reel from Walmart and some basic misc fishing gear. I probably didn't spend more than $40 on it. It was of course total junk. But it put a hook in the water and could occasionally even hook a fish.

The idea was, not only did I not know for certain that it was something I would even keep doing I had no idea what even made "good" fishing gear "good". The 20 dollar rod was a throw away. It taught me be the basic things I needed to know and I was able to learn what features I wanted and what shortcomings I would like to avoid. I then tossed that rod in the garbage and went and bought some nice stuff that was a pleasure to use and did it's job well. If I had ran out and spent hundreds of dollars on gear, it might have ended up just sitting there if I decided I didn't want to do it anymore, or I might have ended up buying overpriced junk that was no better than the Walmart rod, or I might have ended up buying super high priced gear that I either lacked the skill to get the benefit from or worse was totally inappropriate for me. (Like the top of the line competition rods that I'm just going to break and don't matter to me anyway because Im not have every tiny advantage to one up competitors)

In the case of some tools, it's not practical to do that as even the cheap ones cost a hefty chunk of change. But it sounds like you managed to pull it off quite handily. That little machine wasn't big enough for you, but you got it so cheap that I bet you sold it for at least the 180 dollars you had in it, or at worst I bet you didn't lose very much. And for some people, a machine that cuts 3/16 and under might be all they need. But you had the opportunity to learn all the things you didn't like about it, and gain first hand experience as to what you really needed. Id call that a total win.

While the number of what's cheap vs what's a "hefty chunk of change" varies person to person, for me the 150 buck amazon plasma cutter seems like a reasonable entry point. If it works and does it's job, within the range of what that kind of machine can do, then it would have some utility to me and I'd keep it. If it doesn't meet the implied warranty of merchantability and fitness, then that's another problem. In other words, a washing machine should wash clothes, a refrigerator should get you food cold, a power drill should actually drill holes and a plasma cutter should actually cut metal. If it doesn't do that then obviously it goes back. And if I specifically needed to cut 1/4" metal, bought a tool that said it could do it, and it can't, back it goes. But if it basicly does what I expected, then I'll use it for what it's good for, and learn what doesn't work well and what I need in a better unit, and then shop around for something that better meets my needs, once I know what those needs actually are. And I can probably sell it on Craig's list for 100 bucks when I'm done. Or even just give it to a friend or relative who can use it.

That works well for hobbies as they are very different from professional usage. In a professional situation, time is money. I'll go to my vendor and tell them what I need and select a quality tool that meets or exceeds my expected needs over the life time of the tool. I'll take into account not just price and capabilities but support and parts availability. Because I depend upon it and need it to work.

Of course we all love that kind of gear and want that in our hobby level shop as well. And it certainly can make a job go easier. So we shop around and sometimes save up for a particularly nice piece of equipment and sometimes stumble onto an awesome deal on something we couldn't otherwise afford and collect a very nice array of top quality stuff and sometimes the tools are half the hobby like when you get a nice old vintage piece of equipment and spend weeks or months refurbishing it so you have a top quality tool that's better than most of the stuff currently made, that literally looks brand new right down to the restored vintage script on the name plate. But it's very different than the way you do things at work, where it's all about business and money and efficiency. In your own garage, it's about what makes you happy. That's something to keep in mind.

 

[Fixr]

I wonder how many of the proponents of spending thousands on an American-made plasma cutter or welder for home use have a Chinese microwave oven for home use instead of an American-made commercial one.

 

[restorick]

I've not used one, but the Primeweld Cut60 has good reviews.

I have one and love it. And the support (if you need it) is second to none.

 

[Steve_P]

I have one and love it. And the support (if you need it) is second to none.

Good to hear. I still haven't purchased one yet, but pretty sure I'm going to get the Cut 60 next month.

 

[11b30b4]

Gotta say, I am very impressed with the Yeswelder Firstess MP200 5 in 1 Welder Cutter. At $999.99 it hits on all the cylinders for me and its dual voltage. Great customer support and quality components.

FIRSTESS MP200 5-in-1 Welder & Cutter

The MP200 is a versatile and powerful 5-in-1 welding machine specially designed for home DIY or maintenance projects. It can be used to weld MIG (GMAW), Stick (SMAW), Gasless (FCAW), and TIG (GTAW). YesWelder MP200 also allows you to cut at the same time.

yeswelder.com

 

[tarbellb]

With the recent news of Sterrett being sold to a Investment firm you'll need to ask yourself

"am I going to ***** if Hypertherm ends up like Sterrett and other US manufactures"

that being said, Hypertherm has positioned themselves as a Pro / Industrial / Gov only option. Prohibitively expensive for any other consumer. Especially when considering how good and cheap the competition has become.
They can't compete at the low end so it's premium or nothing.

If they (any US mfg producing at extreme end of the price and quality spectrum) feels they are appropriately positioned for the market they are targeting than the choice should be fairly easy on what you as the consumer should be purchasing.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Good to hear. I still haven't purchased one yet, but pretty sure I'm going to get the Cut 60 next month.

Thinking the same thing about getting a Primeweld Cut60. Been tossing this around for over three years and decided on this larger unit at a price I am willing to pay.

 

[American Locomotive]

that being said, Hypertherm has positioned themselves as a Pro / Industrial / Gov only option. Prohibitively expensive for any other consumer. Especially when considering how good and cheap the competition has become.
They can't compete at the low end so it's premium or nothing.

If they (any US mfg producing at extreme end of the price and quality spectrum) feels they are appropriately positioned for the market they are targeting than the choice should be fairly easy on what you as the consumer should be purchasing.

I really don't think Hypertherm or the other Red, Blue or Yellow machines are "prohibitively expensive" for non-industrial users. Yes they are "pricey", but they aren't ludicrous. The machines cost ~$1500-2500. Which for something that will literally last probably the rest of your life, isn't a bad deal at all. Americans will happily purchase a $2000 MacBook every 5 years, spend multi-thousands on rifles and pistols ...and $1200/year on fast food. But $2000 for a quality tool that will last 20+ years is prohibitively expensive except to non-government entities?

I wonder how many of the proponents of spending thousands on an American-made plasma cutter or welder for home use have a Chinese microwave oven for home use instead of an American-made commercial one.

It's more about buying quality, rather than American. I've been burned by "$300" cheap chinese welding equipment before. It's a real hassle when your whole project (critical, or non critical) gets put on hold because your welder or plasma cutter blew up, and the company that sold it no longer exists.

 

[Jswain]

I really don't think Hypertherm or the other Red, Blue or Yellow machines are "prohibitively expensive" for non-industrial users. Yes they are "pricey", but they aren't ludicrous. The machines cost ~$1500-2500. Which for something that will literally last probably the rest of your life, isn't a bad deal at all. Americans will happily purchase a $2000 MacBook every 5 years, spend multi-thousands on rifles and pistols ...and $1200/year on fast food. But $2000 for a quality tool that will last 20+ years is prohibitively expensive except to non-government entities?

It's more about buying quality, rather than American. I've been burned by "$300" cheap chinese welding equipment before. It's a real hassle when your whole project (critical, or non critical) gets put on hold because your welder or plasma cutter blew up, and the company that sold it no longer exists.

Most hobbyists don't use a plasma cutter enough to warrant that. Sure, the purists will have to have the best in their hands for the 3ft of cut they make per year. Maybe if you want to have a plasma table eventually(which most hobbyists living in the city probably don't have the room for)

When a guy who doesn't do it for a living wants to have a broad selection of tools to fix anything or build anything that comes in front of him, buying the best of everything in every category makes absolutely zero sense. You don't buy a 2 post lift to do your first oil change on your freshly installed marble floors with your new snap on ratchet.

Welders I still agree with buying name brand, air compressors you still should get a quality unit, plasma cutters you can easily save your $$. In 10 years it will likely be the same for welders. Yes there are some good mid range cheap welders but $900 ish is more of a gamble then $200 for a plasma cutter.

Comparing computers which people use daily, multiple times a day and a specialized tool which only comes out for certain projects is apples to aliens. You have 9,127 posts since 2017. Have you used your plasma cutter 9 thousand times? Doubtfully.

Amazon eliminates the "hold" on projects in that department for most of us. If my $200 herocut shits the bed tomorrow, I'll have another one delivered on saturday. 24-48 hours ain't much of a wait, I'm not building parts for the next lunar landing.

And that's not even considering the cost of consumables. I can buy a 50amp pilot arc plasma cutter WITH a consumable kit, for less then the cost of a 19piece hypertherm consumable kit on sale in Canada...

 

[Wamsutta]

I have the Miller version…Extreme 625, that thing really cuts up to 5/8 like butter.

What kind of input voltage does it require?

 

[lotus_esprit]

I’m in the UK and used to have a Hypertherm 30 (non XP version) which died at 18 months old with very little home use, was using it one day, turned it off and it never turned back on again, sent it to the approved UK Hypertherm repair centre and required a new board at 75% of the cost of the machine. I reluctantly ended up buying a new 30XP which had then been released.

 

[NUTTSGT]

It's more about buying quality, rather than American. I've been burned by "$300" cheap chinese welding equipment before. It's a real hassle when your whole project (critical, or non critical) gets put on hold because your welder or plasma cutter blew up, and the company that sold it no longer exists.

That's basically how I felt after buying the Fortney unit. I've had good luck with Hobart, so I stuck with them.

 

[zendriver]

Maybe it doesn't matter much in many cases, any more.

I checked out a review of the "bestarc" (which I ended up getting). They guy doing the review wanted something for misc. cutting and he didn't want to have to stop remove the cutter, (he was running the **** out of) on a CNC table in his garage. Cutting out multiple circular parts out of larger sheets.

The cutter being used on the CNC table setup was the $800 "Titanium". He thought the cheap bestarc unit was great for the price. I'll take his word he know about plasma cutters.

Personally, HF plasma cut offerings I almost consider "too rich for my blood". I'd probably never own any unit if not for the cheap prices. If it craps out, just get another one if I want.

 

[Omnirod]

I have a Lincoln Tomahawk. It has a built in compressor for the smaller cuts which is quite handy.

 

[tarbellb]

I really don't think Hypertherm or the other Red, Blue or Yellow machines are "prohibitively expensive" for non-industrial users. Yes they are "pricey", but they aren't ludicrous. The machines cost ~$1500-2500. Which for something that will literally last probably the rest of your life, isn't a bad deal at all. Americans will happily purchase a $2000 MacBook every 5 years, spend multi-thousands on rifles and pistols ...and $1200/year on fast food. But $2000 for a quality tool that will last 20+ years is prohibitively expensive except to non-government entities?

It's more about buying quality, rather than American. I've been burned by "$300" cheap chinese welding equipment before. It's a real hassle when your whole project (critical, or non critical) gets put on hold because your welder or plasma cutter blew up, and the company that sold it no longer exists.

You conveniently quoted Hypertherms lowest cost models, but they quickly reach into $3000-6000 for more capacity and adding consumables/upgrades.

The competition is 15-30% the cost and is gaining ground fast on quality. That will push most non PRO users into this category.

I think Hypertherm has correctly positioned themselves, they still make a product that is better then the competition, better support, and gets the MiUSA pat on the back - this is a higher end product and the price is geared towards the industries that can afford that.

This is the world we live in now- either diversify yourself by being niche, custom, ultra high-end, ?? because youll never be the most economical option (cheap) anymore.

 

[finn]

I really don't think Hypertherm or the other Red, Blue or Yellow machines are "prohibitively expensive" for non-industrial users. Yes they are "pricey", but they aren't ludicrous. The machines cost ~$1500-2500. Which for something that will literally last probably the rest of your life, isn't a bad deal at all. Americans will happily purchase a $2000 MacBook every 5 years, spend multi-thousands on rifles and pistols ...and $1200/year on fast food. But $2000 for a quality tool that will last 20+ years is prohibitively expensive except to non-government entities?

It's more about buying quality, rather than American. I've been burned by "$300" cheap chinese welding equipment before. It's a real hassle when your whole project (critical, or non critical) gets put on hold because your welder or plasma cutter blew up, and the company that sold it no longer exists.

I disagree. My Blue plasma cutter cost $1300 or 1400 new when I purchased it a number of years ago. It still works but is outclassed by any number of the imports like the Primeweld units that are available.

Am I sorry I bought it? In a word no, but it’s hopelessly underpowered by today’s standard, and overpriced too.

I’m considering getting rid of the Miller to get something imported, cheaper, and more powerful.

Technology marches on, and old tools become obsolete with time. There’s no such thing as buy once, cry once in my world.

Machines like welders and plasma cutters have largely become commodities over time, and a name brand becomes irrelevant

 

[American Locomotive]

You conveniently quoted Hypertherms lowest cost models, but they quickly reach into $3000-6000 for more capacity and adding consumables/upgrades.

....and? The "premium" plasmacutters can typically do more with less power. A Powermax 45 is every bit as capable (perhaps even more so) than a Primewld Cut60. If someone needed the capability of a Powermax 65 or 85 - a cheap no-name plasma cutter from Amazon certainly is not going to do.

This is the world we live in now- either diversify yourself by being niche, custom, ultra high-end, ?? because youll never be the most economical option (cheap) anymore.

...and that's fine.

It's my personal opinion that cheap machines are fine if you're just dabbling and unsure. But if you actually want a proper tool, with good support, that you intend to be able to use for years, that is going to last your entire life - just bite the bullet and buy the better machine. Cut out fast food, and you'll recoup the cost within 2 years and be healthier to boot.

I disagree. My Blue plasma cutter cost $1300 or 1400 new when I purchased it a number of years ago. It still works but is outclassed by any number of the imports like the Primeweld units that are available.

How is that disagreeing with me? I said that "brand name" machines offer support, long life, and quality. You said your machine is still working just fine, so that actually kinda confirms what I just said.

and FYI, your machine isn't "outclassed". It's a 30A-class machine, and it's capabilities are inline with other 30A machines on sale today. It was a low capacity machine new, and it's a low capacity machine now. I have a 30 year old 55A plasmacutter in the shop that can cut 7/8" steel without too much fuss, and it zips through thinner stuff.

 

[babyseal]

Cheap one worked great for me. Have a honking heavy old '40s milling machine stand for an Atlas MFC I'm rebuilding, 3/16" steel, too heavy to move around easily, needed to cut access (to bolt heads) ports in the enclosed/double-walled bottom legs so I could mount casters/levelers on it. Made nice clean oval cutouts, minimal clean up required. Then I cut nice neat covers to go over them, to keep the bottom of the legs from getting filled up with ****. Will look factory once I sandblast it, and shoot a coat of paint.

That $200 I spent on a cheap Chinese plasma cutter, was well spent. Bought it for a toy, played around with it, cut a bunch of steel that didn't need cut, then went "Whoa, it'd be perfect for that!". Did a bang up job. I can certainly see the utility of one for the occasional oddball jobs. Don't see $1500-2500 worth of utility though, for something I won't use but rarely.

If I hadn't had that cheapo plasma cutter...I'd have did it with a torch and had a bunch of grinding to do to pretty it up vs. spending $1500-2500 for something I could do by hand for no cost. But I certainly don't "need" a plasma cutter, I'm certainly not made of money (to throw around on expensive toys), I've got everything from hacksaws, to 47 flavors of grinders, air tools, band saws, circular saws, and cutting torches. It's a tool that's situationally useful...rest of the time, quicker/easier to slap it in the bandsaw or circular saw and whack it off.

is going to last your entire life - just bite the bullet and buy the better machine. Cut out fast food, and you'll recoup the cost within 2 years and be healthier to boot.

Pretty sure the cheap Chinese one is going to last the rest of my life. Even if I live longer than expected, something I might (at a reach) use a half a dozen times a year is hardly going to wear out anytime soon. I enjoy an occasional fast food burgher. Why should I cut out something I enjoy, for yet another piece of expensive and situationally useful equipment that's going to mostly sit in the shop collecting dust? Not to mention, WTF are you, the Diet Police? Get over yourself.

 

[finn]

....and? The "premium" plasmacutters can typically do more with less power. A Powermax 45 is every bit as capable (perhaps even more so) than a Primewld Cut60. If someone needed the capability of a Powermax 65 or 85 - a cheap no-name plasma cutter from Amazon certainly is not going to do.

...and that's fine.

It's my personal opinion that cheap machines are fine if you're just dabbling and unsure. But if you actually want a proper tool, with good support, that you intend to be able to use for years, that is going to last your entire life - just bite the bullet and buy the better machine. Cut out fast food, and you'll recoup the cost within 2 years and be healthier to boot.
How is that disagreeing with me? I said that "brand name" machines offer support, long life, and quality. You said your machine is still working just fine, so that actually kinda confirms what I just said.

and FYI, your machine isn't "outclassed". It's a 30A-class machine, and it's capabilities are inline with other 30A machines on sale today. It was a low capacity machine new, and it's a low capacity machine now. I have a 30 year old 55A plasmacutter in the shop that can cut 7/8" steel without too much fuss, and it zips through thinner stuff.

From a price standpoint, it certainly is outclassed by today’s imports. A Primeweld 50 amp machine costs significantly less in today’s dollars than the Miller 30 amp machine did when I bought it. And, from memory, the 50-60 amp machines were at the time, close to double what my little 30 amp Miller was.

At the time I don’t recall imports being readily available. Now they are, and that changes the game. It makes te Miller a bad investment for anyone other than a high volume commercial user.

Buy once cry once is utter ******** for a hobbiest.

 

[American Locomotive]

Pretty sure the cheap Chinese one is going to last the rest of my life. Even if I live longer than expected, something I might (at a reach) use a half a dozen times a year is hardly going to wear out anytime soon.

They don't "wear out". They fail catastrophically without warning. A MOSFET or IGBT will suddenly short due to poor design, bad QA/QC, and knock-off underspecc'd components. When that happens, the full brunt of the 240v mains supply runs through the shorted transistor and blows everything up. Been there, done that. Used the machine maybe like 6-7 times. Company up and vanished with no support. Seen it happen to countless others. Even just recently on Garage Journal someone said their new HF inverter welder blew up, and they couldn't get parts for it.

I enjoy an occasional fast food burgher. Why should I cut out something I enjoy, for yet another piece of expensive and situationally useful equipment that's going to mostly sit in the shop collecting dust? Not to mention, WTF are you, the Diet Police? Get over yourself.

Gosh, it amazes me how often I have to repeat myself on this site. I was pointing out that we, as Americans, plow on average $1200 each year on fast food. Poor quality food, lacking nutritional value, that provides us 30 seconds of enjoyment and 12 hours later gets flushed down the toilet.

Yet the idea of spending a year or two of equivalent fast-food money on a quality tool that will last forever is utterly unacceptable.

Buy once cry once is utter ******** for a hobbiest.

Until you draw the short-straw with your cheap $300 unit, and it blows up.

Why bother buying quality anything with that logic? Who cares about buying a nice screwdriver, when you can buy a 10 pack of screwdrivers from HF? If you break one, what does it matter? Why bother with DeWalt and Milwaukee tools when a HF drill will make a hole in wood just fine? Why buy quality knives for your kitchen, when you can just buy cheap knives and sharpen them every other day? Why bother spending money on a good compressor, when you can buy 4 cheap ones for the same price? Who cares about buying a nice computer, when you could get a $150 chromebook to browse the web?

In fact, I think we should just petition all of the retailers of premium brands to close their doors to general consumers. After all, a hobbyist only needs cheap garbage **** from Temu, Amazon and Wish.

 

[Jswain]

They don't "wear out". They fail catastrophically without warning. A MOSFET or IGBT will suddenly short due to poor design, bad QA/QC, and knock-off underspecc'd components. When that happens, the full brunt of the 240v mains supply runs through the shorted transistor and blows everything up. Been there, done that. Used the machine maybe like 6-7 times. Company up and vanished with no support. Seen it happen to countless others. Even just recently on Garage Journal someone said their new HF inverter welder blew up, and they couldn't get parts for it.

Gosh, it amazes me how often I have to repeat myself on this site. I was pointing out that we, as Americans, plow on average $1200 each year on fast food. Poor quality food, lacking nutritional value, that provides us 30 seconds of enjoyment and 12 hours later gets flushed down the toilet.

Yet the idea of spending a year or two of equivalent fast-food money on a quality tool that will last forever is utterly unacceptable.

Until you draw the short-straw with your cheap $300 unit, and it blows up.

Why bother buying quality anything with that logic? Who cares about buying a nice screwdriver, when you can buy a 10 pack of screwdrivers from HF? If you break one, what does it matter? Why bother with DeWalt and Milwaukee tools when a HF drill will make a hole in wood just fine? Why buy quality knives for your kitchen, when you can just buy cheap knives and sharpen them every other day? Why bother spending money on a good compressor, when you can buy 4 cheap ones for the same price? Who cares about buying a nice computer, when you could get a $150 chromebook to browse the web?

In fact, I think we should just petition all of the retailers of premium brands to close their doors to general consumers. After all, a hobbyist only needs cheap garbage **** from Temu, Amazon and Wish.

Well your logic simply makes no sense is probably why you have to repeat yourself. Ok, ditch the fast food and you have enough money for a plasma cutter in two years? No, because if you stop eating fast food you still have to eat food, so there is still a cost in that. So now you wait 4 years for a plasma cutter? Or $200 and it's delivered tomorrow.

People buy quality tools in areas they use them enough to warrant it, and buy tools that get the job done in areas that it doesn't. Perhaps you use your plasma cutter 200x more then the guy looking for a 3x a year cut out some 3/16" plate. Some people aren't cutting/welding every week, or every month.

Why do people spend a lot of money on a laptop, tv, vehicle, cellphone? They use them every day of the week.

Would you spend a lot of money on a snowblower, if you lived in Texas? Why not? Buy once cry once you don't wanna be shovelling... When you reword it for a different tool, for a different job then it's easy to see why your logic is flawed, and you have to keep repeating yourself.

If you tow a 1000lb trailer once a year, do you buy the 3500 Denali? Never know when you're gonna need it...

Lawnmower to cut your .018 acre....JD zero turn right? Don't wanna be messing around with junk

And now you'll say. Well those are extreme examples...well guess what my friend $200 vs $2000 is an extreme difference

 

[finn]

They don't "wear out". They fail catastrophically without warning. A MOSFET or IGBT will suddenly short due to poor design, bad QA/QC, and knock-off underspecc'd components. When that happens, the full brunt of the 240v mains supply runs through the shorted transistor and blows everything up. Been there, done that. Used the machine maybe like 6-7 times. Company up and vanished with no support. Seen it happen to countless others. Even just recently on Garage Journal someone said their new HF inverter welder blew up, and they couldn't get parts for it.

Gosh, it amazes me how often I have to repeat myself on this site. I was pointing out that we, as Americans, plow on average $1200 each year on fast food. Poor quality food, lacking nutritional value, that provides us 30 seconds of enjoyment and 12 hours later gets flushed down the toilet.

Yet the idea of spending a year or two of equivalent fast-food money on a quality tool that will last forever is utterly unacceptable.

Until you draw the short-straw with your cheap $300 unit, and it blows up.

Why bother buying quality anything with that logic? Who cares about buying a nice screwdriver, when you can buy a 10 pack of screwdrivers from HF? If you break one, what does it matter? Why bother with DeWalt and Milwaukee tools when a HF drill will make a hole in wood just fine? Why buy quality knives for your kitchen, when you can just buy cheap knives and sharpen them every other day? Why bother spending money on a good compressor, when you can buy 4 cheap ones for the same price? Who cares about buying a nice computer, when you could get a $150 chromebook to browse the web?

In fact, I think we should just petition all of the retailers of premium brands to close their doors to general consumers. After all, a hobbyist only needs cheap garbage **** from Temu, Amazon and Wish.

I just checked. The Primeweld Cut 60 is $699 less a $25 coupon. The equivalent Miller 685 is $4300 less a $200 rebate at Bakers gas.

You can buy six Primeweld machines for the price of one Miller, and customers love them.

I have a Primeweld tig machine, and a Miller Multimatic welder. Both are satisfactory for my use. I also have a couple of HTP machines.

I would buy any one of those brands again without hesitation and don’t really see what fast food has to do with buying welding equipment, so I don’t see how that fits into the decision. To me it’s purely an economic decision. Does the Miller at 7x the cost of the Primeweld bring any utility to me . I think not. Nor can I comment on the $200 Amazon machines, but at the price of two lottery tickets per week, or a Starbucks on the way to work every morning, they may very well be worth a shot.

Would I say the same thing if I had 30 plasma cutters in a production facility? Probably not, but as a hobbiest, I probably put fewer hours on the machine in a year than a production machine puts on in a week.

Again, I maintain that the outmoded buy once mantra is a trite phrase in these situations. It’s real easy to spend other people’s money, isn’t it?

 

[babyseal]

They don't "wear out". They fail catastrophically without warning. A MOSFET or IGBT will suddenly short due to poor design, bad QA/QC, and knock-off underspecc'd components. When that happens, the full brunt of the 240v mains supply runs through the shorted transistor and blows everything up. Been there, done that. Used the machine maybe like 6-7 times. Company up and vanished with no support. Seen it happen to countless others. Even just recently on Garage Journal someone said their new HF inverter welder blew up, and they couldn't get parts for it.

And I'd shrug, strip it of anything useful, toss it on the scrap pile...and since it's only situationally useful to me, probably don't buy another one till I need it. If ever. If I do, I can have it delivered overnight. I've done got my $200 worth of fun and use out of it, scratched the plasma cutter itch. Anything else is gravy.

Gosh, it amazes me how often I have to repeat myself on this site. I was pointing out that we, as Americans, plow on average $1200 each year on fast food. Poor quality food, lacking nutritional value, that provides us 30 seconds of enjoyment and 12 hours later gets flushed down the toilet.

Point being?

Why bother buying quality anything with that logic? Who cares about buying a nice screwdriver, when you can buy a 10 pack of screwdrivers from HF? If you break one, what does it matter? Why bother with DeWalt and Milwaukee tools when a HF drill will make a hole in wood just fine? Why buy quality knives for your kitchen, when you can just buy cheap knives and sharpen them every other day? Why bother spending money on a good compressor, when you can buy 4 cheap ones for the same price? Who cares about buying a nice computer, when you could get a $150 chromebook to browse the web?

I buy quite a few cheap tools. If they get the job done, don't see any point in being a "tool snob". Why throw money away? And I actually do keep a box of various cheap HF screwdrivers on hand...so I can grind the tips to fit vice ruining a quality screwdriver.

As far as (cordless) power hand tools go, anymore I DO buy cheap ones. I invested far too much money in quality power tools, just to find out the next gen version is out, and you can't buy batteries for the last gen anymore, or they're at prohibitive prices. Can't say that I've noticed any particular difference, other than to my wallet. If they **** out, unbox another one off the shelf. Cheap enough to buy multiples at a time. Today's cheap battery powered hand tool, is (exactly like plasma cutters) quite often far more powerful and long lived than yesterday's premium tool. As someone else pointed out, time (and progress) marches onward.

Kitchen knives? Depends. Quite often you can find cheap ones made of good old carbon steel...while alot of the expensive ones are made of chromium steel, hard as woodpecker lips, and a total PITA to sharpen. When I can spend 30 seconds touching up the "cheap" carbon steel blade as part of my meal prep. Relaxing. Keep a diamond hone with my cutting board. Note; ALL knives need sharpened eventually, cheap or expensive. I'd rather spend 30 seconds routinely, than wrassle for half an hour periodically. But that's just me...my primary kitchen knives are all mismatched "junk" picked up at yard sales and flea markets for pennies.

Compressors...unlike a plasma cutter, even a hobbyist will generally use theirs every day, on a regular basis. A good one is an investment that will last you your entire life, and is far less likely to be rendered obsolete by progress overnight. Unless of course, you just flat can't afford to spend multiple thousands on one. Heck, I own 4, with the compressor in the wood shop being my Granddads. Works just fine, in spite of being 75-100 years old. Which I'd never really stopped to think about before. Use it, drain it, check the oil occasionally...

What's wrong with a $150 Chromebook to browse the web if it gets the job done? People should spend thousands of dollars on a computer just to keep up with the Jones?

In fact, I think we should just petition all of the retailers of premium brands to close their doors to general consumers. After all, a hobbyist only needs cheap garbage **** from Temu, Amazon and Wish.

Does a hobbyist generally need premium quality hardware? Nope. Might come to the point, where to progress they need better tools, but depending on the hobby, buying premium brands up front, paying premium prices, just means they're pricing themselves out of the hobby. Personally, I've got LOTS of hobbies...so I tend to buy strategically, and spend the money where it needs to be spent...not reflexively out of snobbery.