Meter/Main Disconnect Remote From Drop Questions

[Mr onetwo]

Is there any reason within the code where this arrangement would be prohibited? Will it be ok to transition from rigid to PVC at the bottom of the mast? Sch 40 or sch 80 pvc? Do I need any more ground rods than the 2 shown because the panel is on the other side of the container? The 150 amp load will be passing thru to my shop. I am assuming 3 wire URD to the meter and 4 wire SER to the panel...MHF going underground over to the shop.The container will have a couple of 15 amp circuits for lights, cameras and a future gate operator.

 

[mm08822]

Get your POCO's electric service specs and look at their mast requirements. Check for min conduit size, length, straps/spacing, guy wires, etc.

The o/h cable would be triplex and terminate at a weatherhead.

2 rods are sufficient.

Why can't you put the metermain at the bottom of the mast? Does the door open 270*? If so, need to move the metermain a few feet toward the front.

Use conduit inside with xhhw conductors not SER.

Since the service conduit is on the outside of the structure there is no NEC limitation on length. Shorter is always better.

 

[75gmck25]

Where does the electrical service originate, relative to your power needs? If you are already running a trencher, just trench it all underground to wherever you need power.

You said the 150 amp load is passing through to your shop. Wouldn't it be easier to trench and install conduit from the main panel right over to your shop? You can then provide two 120 volt circuits to the container using a single buried MWBC

And I also am confused by the "200 amp pass through panel: inside the container. Where is that 200 amp power coming from?

 

[mm08822]

Where does the electrical service originate, relative to your power needs? If you are already running a trencher, just trench it all underground to wherever you need power.

You said the 150 amp load is passing through to your shop. Wouldn't it be easier to trench and install conduit from the main panel right over to your shop? You can then provide two 120 volt circuits to the container using a single buried MWBC

And I also am confused by the "200 amp pass through panel: inside the container. Where is that 200 amp power coming from?

Good q's. Hard to see the overall plan from just a snipit of info.

I ASSUMED the 200A pass-through panel will feed his shop directly from its buss' feed-thru lugs with no more than 150A.

 

[Codyboy]

If the POCO allows it i would trench to their pole and riser up it. Eliminate all that mast and conduit running down the side of the container.
If they won't allow a riser on their pole I'd set a meter pole and run my trench to that.

Here , unless the container could be shown to be permanently anchored we would NOT allow the service drop to be attached there.
Same as with mobile homes. Has to have axles removed, skirted and permanently anchored.

Also how do you plan to anchor the mast to the container if they do allow it? A couple pipe straps here would not be sufficient.

 

[sparky 1971]

It's going to fall under the POCO's requirements. I don't know that we would be able to get away with putting any service equipment on it because it's portable. I will admit to never attempting to build a service on a shipping container but regardless, I doubt Mid American would let it go.

 

[mm08822]

Pedestal or pole mount service may be in the future.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I agree with the others. do a metermain, that has multiple spaces, on a pole, then distribute power to container and shop from there. that way you have permanent power establish and its not on something that can be moved (container) making it easier to move the container in the future...

 

[Mr onetwo]

No pole possible without great expense due to ledge. Container isn't going anywhere.The gravel at the end towards the road is about 5 ft deep and I'm not sure they will want the meter on that end.The container is a building since it will be attached to the concrete under it and is already approved by the POCO. The question is about meter/main on 1 end and mast on the other. Power comes from the road and then will go to the shop underground.Mast and conduit will be supported by halex rings backed up with 2" x 1/4" sq washers. Is there any problem using pvc for the horizontal run if needed?

 

[Mr onetwo]

Mast is 2" rigid. POCO is doing a site visit Tuesday.

 

[mm08822]

Do you have the POCO Service specs? or link to them? Mast conduit size and unsupported length is affected by o/h cable length.

What is distance to the pole?

Elevation difference between pole cable height and top of container? (Affects tension applied to mast.)

 

[PCustoms]

No pole possible without great expense due to ledge. Container isn't going anywhere.The gravel at the end towards the road is about 5 ft deep and I'm not sure they will want the meter on that end.The container is a building since it will be attached to the concrete under it and is already approved by the POCO. The question is about meter/main on 1 end and mast on the other. Power comes from the road and then will go to the shop underground.Mast and conduit will be supported by halex rings backed up with 2" x 1/4" sq washers. Is there any problem using pvc for the horizontal run if needed?

That looks like a loooonge distance from pole to mast...

 

[Codyboy]

That looks like a loooonge distance from pole to mast...

At least a 100 ft or more if the container drawing is to scale.
For a 200 amp service we used 1/0 triplex and max was 70ft iirc.
We would set a 25 or 30 ft service pole in between the weatherhead and line pole in that instance.
For #4 triplex we would run 100ft. Buy that wouldn't carry ops load.

 

[mm08822]

If I found the correct POCO....

Based on your pic, you're looking @2.5", IMO.

 

[Codyboy]

If I found the correct POCO....

Based on your pic, you're looking @2.5", IMO.

Yes over 100ft drop, 2 1/2" rigid.
However that drawing is for a through the roof mast which is a lot stronger than just pipe clamped to a structure.

 

[mm08822]

Yes over 100ft drop, 2 1/2" rigid.
However that drawing is for a through the roof mast which is a lot stronger than just pipe clamped to a structure.

Closest I found. The tension needs to be determined with the site specific details. Could easily require 2 if not 3 guy wires.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Drawing is not to scale...85 ft from pole to container. I have no way to determine the elevation difference.

 

[Bert_]

You can't use PVC in the middle of steel conduit. You your vertical pipe will not be grounded.

I'm getting to the point that I rarely use PVC for something like this unless the customer is really cheap. The PVC always ends up broken somewhere. You could switch to imc after the 90* if you want to save a few bucks.

 

[mm08822]

You can't use PVC in the middle of steel conduit. You your vertical pipe will not be grounded.

I'm getting to the point that I rarely use PVC for something like this unless the customer is really cheap. The PVC always ends up broken somewhere. You could switch to imc after the 90* if you want to save a few bucks.

If that mast ever moved/piveted toward the road, that could be enough to buckle any horizontal pvc.

 

[mm08822]

Drawing is not to scale...85 ft from pole to container. I have no way to determine the elevation difference.

Clearances required for service drop:
public roadway - 18'
private drive/property - 12'

Meeting those clearances for your apparent terrain could require the drop pulled more taught than usual. Discuss guy wire recommendations during POCO walk-through. Windy weather and ice covered cables sag a lot and could be 3-5x heavier than initially installed.

Also should have tree branches pruned for same reasons and ability to string the cable.

 

[Mr onetwo]

The POCO visited and all went well.As it turns out, the meter can be mounted at the mast in a conventional fashion. I am going to install a guy wire down to the bottom of the container.I'll post up photos of the install at the end of the week.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Well, we have made some progress on my install.All the outside work is done and the paperwork is sent to CMP. Should be inspected and energized within 2 or 3 weeks according to their propaganda.

 

[PCustoms]

Well, we have made some progress on my install.All the outside work is done and the paperwork is sent to CMP. Should be inspected and energized within 2 or 3 weeks according to their propaganda.

Haha, just realized where this is...

It's a lot like around here, some guys are strict to the book (their guide) and others work with you. Trick is to know which ones aren't setting you up for issues.

Install looks good, but that unistrut would drive me nuts...

 

[Mr onetwo]

Install looks good, but that unistrut would drive me nuts...

I wanted the whole thing to be as rugged as possible, so unistrut was the way to go imho. I have to dress out the pass thru panel and ground the container frame today...I'll post up a couple of photos tonight.

 

[Mr onetwo]

We have power

 

[mm08822]

Why are the service entrance conductors left so long?

Looks like they could have been trimmed back 3ft.

 

[Codyboy]

Why are the service entrance conductors left so long?

Looks like they could have been trimmed back 3ft.

Probably so when those Kearneys burn up there'll be enough wire to connect to, again and again and again.
Lol
Idk if those are Kearneys or not but does look like a bolted connection.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Probably so when those Kearneys burn up there'll be enough wire to connect to, again and again and again.
Lol
Idk if those are Kearneys or not but does look like a bolted connection.

Please elaborate for those of us who aren't electricians

 

[Codyboy]

Please elaborate for those of us who aren't electricians

Kearney split bolt. Or just split bolt. Or damned electricians clamp. Lol
Around here they are (were) used a lot by electricians to connect the service entrance wires to the POCOs drop when they wouldn't pull a permit if needed. (Bootleg job)

Seems at least a couple times a month I'd find one burned up .
Mostly because they'd use a copper split bolt on aluminum wire.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

PoCo here uses crimp connectors and they use a battery powered hydraulic crimper... doubt those ever fail

 

[Mr onetwo]

This was done by CMP. I don't know why they would use an inferior product, but it is what it is

 

[Bert_]

Kearney split bolt. Or just split bolt. Or damned electricians clamp. Lol
Around here they are (were) used a lot by electricians to connect the service entrance wires to the POCOs drop when they wouldn't pull a permit if needed. (Bootleg job)

Seems at least a couple times a month I'd find one burned up .
Mostly because they'd use a copper split bolt on aluminum wire.

Ok, why would an electrician use split bolts on a service instead of a crimp?

Split bolts are usually what you see an owner do on their own stuff, because they don't have the tool for a crimp.

 

[mike93lx]

Why are the service entrance conductors left so long?

Looks like they could have been trimmed back 3ft.

My first thought too. Looks sloppy and doesn't offer a benefit.

 

[Mr onetwo]

I am going to get a closeup photo and give them a call.Thanks for the heads up

 

[PCustoms]

I am going to get a closeup photo and give them a call.Thanks for the heads up

I bet I could predict how that call goes

 

[mm08822]

My first thought too. Looks sloppy and doesn't offer a benefit.

Actually, the issue is there is a lot swinging in the breeze that could one day get entangled with a falling branch or a conductor insulation chaffe through from rubbing against the mast.

 

[mike93lx]

Actually, the issue is there is a lot swinging in the breeze that could one day get entangled with a falling branch or a conductor insulation chaffe through from rubbing against the mast.

A branch getting caught did come to mind

Guessing the lineman didn't want to shorten the wires and just hooked it up assuming that's what was wanted

 

[mm08822]

Maybe his cutters were left in the same place as his hi-press.

POCOs typically ask for 3' min of free conductor from the mast to cut in as needed, while this job left way more than that, POCO min requirement was met, it's hack to not trim them.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Here's 3 closeup shots of the fittings...I don't like it

 

[Mr onetwo]

Here's a shot of my inside panel which will pass thru 150A to the shop.Got the panel for $50 because the cover was bashed up and the hinges broken off.Pretty good deal I think. I cobbled up the rest with a bunch of stuff I pulled out of my old garage.