drivinhard
Well-known member
I'm finishing up my detached 31x32 shop currently. Floor looks great. I'd like to investigate the same. 
My Wolverine Coating Flooring
- Thread starter FFPL
- Start date
Finley
Well-known member
looks like marble! bravo!
thanks for the comments. As it happens it's very close to the colors of the granite in the landscaping just outside the garage. I was originally going to put a heavier coating of flake down but as it was I put enough down that the epoxy was pretty much completely covered and was rejecting more flake.
I'm really happy with the result so far and everyone that's seen it has been impressed. However, I'm certainly not going to be gentle on it and I think its going to stand up ok.
I'm really happy with the result so far and everyone that's seen it has been impressed. However, I'm certainly not going to be gentle on it and I think its going to stand up ok.
rwhite692
Well-known member
FFPL: Nice Job!!
WolverineCoatings: Maybe I'm missing something, but the Wolverine Coatings site is not very informative, in terms of the available coating types, colors, etc...Is this available somewhere?
How do I buy the product?
Also, What would be the recommended minimum cure time for new concrete, prior to coating with Wolverine products?
Thanks!
Rob
WolverineCoatings: Maybe I'm missing something, but the Wolverine Coatings site is not very informative, in terms of the available coating types, colors, etc...Is this available somewhere?
How do I buy the product?
Also, What would be the recommended minimum cure time for new concrete, prior to coating with Wolverine products?
Thanks!
Rob
67 455 Bird ragtop
Well-known member
WolverineCoatings
Well-known member
Sorry... we have suspended DIY sales...
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15301&highlight=Wolverine
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15301&highlight=Wolverine
Last edited:
ron in sc
Well-known member
FFPL,
I'm in the process of getting organized to do my Wolverine Coating floor. With proper preparation I can hopefully get as good a result as you did. I do have a few questions for you.
How many coats of 1101 did you apply? I will have to light sand first coat do get rid of fibers that stand up, so I think I'll need two coats.
Did you use a mil gauge to check thickness of applications?
How bad were the fumes form the products? I've read the MSDS and they recommend respiratory protection which I do have.
Was the floor slippery before you put the flakes in? I'm inclined to not do the flake finish. I want the level of the finished floor to be about the concrete, i.e., no profile from the concrete should be visible.
I'm in the process of getting organized to do my Wolverine Coating floor. With proper preparation I can hopefully get as good a result as you did. I do have a few questions for you.
How many coats of 1101 did you apply? I will have to light sand first coat do get rid of fibers that stand up, so I think I'll need two coats.
Did you use a mil gauge to check thickness of applications?
How bad were the fumes form the products? I've read the MSDS and they recommend respiratory protection which I do have.
Was the floor slippery before you put the flakes in? I'm inclined to not do the flake finish. I want the level of the finished floor to be about the concrete, i.e., no profile from the concrete should be visible.
I put down a primer coat of 1101 (6 gallons) and a topcoat of 1101 (9 gallons). I was originally going to just put 6 gallons down for the topcoat but I ordered some more to allow for the walls (which I wasn't going to originally do but decided to) so at the same time I also got an extra kit for the topcoat. The topcoat goes over the flake.
I also had fibers but I forgot to mention that I went around and burnt them off. Actually I don't think I needed to do this as I did miss quite a few but they dissapeared once I put down the bondtite primer and color coat.
I didn't use a mil gauge. It's quite easy to see how thick the clear is going down if you have a helper. For the color I poured it out in ribbons and rolled. I thought it was quite easy to gauge the thickness by eye. It went down so thick that it covered any blemishes I had in the concrete; I didn't have much in my new concrete but plenty in my old area. I allowed for a 20mil coating of color. I didn't get a photo of my floor just prior to doing the flake (there is a photo with flaking in progress though), but the look of the liquitile without the flakes/bondtite is really nice. If you can get the liquitile down without any issues (bubbles etc) then it would look stunning. The ultra light grey under the metal halides was pretty amazing; almost a mirror on the floor.
I think it's going to be more slippery without flakes. However, I cannot really tell you how much as the flake went into the wet color coat so I never experience the liquitile without the flake. I can tell you that bontite is slippery when wearing those spiked shoes. I wore them throughout the liquitile application and was getting good at skating.
As far as fumes. I didn't use a mask and didn't really think we needed to. However, I was doing this with my neighbor and we noticed after spending some time with the bondtite that it was beginning to irritate our eyes. A good question to ask Eric.
ron in sc
Well-known member
Did you use a propane torch with a rosebud tip and do the burning on your hands and knees?
My concrete will be shotblasted so I think there will be quite a few fibers after that. Right now it’s power troweled smooth and you can still see and feel the fibers.
Did you have any problems with bubbles in liquitile but they were just covered or hidden by the flakes? Their instructions for mixing say: "Using a heavy duty drill motor and mixing attachment, mix material for at least 3
minutes at a low to medium speed. Over mixing will create air bubbles in the coating material and possibly in the cured coating. If possible, keep the mixing paddles beneath surface to avoid air bubbles."
I was checking out supplies, tools and the like this afternoon and found a roller that had spikes on it to be used to go over epoxy to remove bubbles, that what the guy told me.
Like this one http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00920690000P (I didn't get it from sears though).
Not in the liquitile. I did get some in one of the primer batches that I'm sure was due to overzealous mixing.
WolverineCoatings
Well-known member
I thought it might be a good idea to post a link for the people who read that this is not available... Here is where to get it...
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17408
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17408
ron in sc
Well-known member
That torch lots like a lot less trouble to use than what I was envisioning.
WolverineCoatings
Well-known member
Oh... You won't see bubbles in the LiquaTile 1184 unless you failed to do a good job priming the concrete or... overzealous mixing (whipping air into it). When alot of air is coming up through the slab from the ground it can create bubbles. Proper priming eliminates the transmission of the pressure...
moogoob
Well-known member
FFPL - How is it holding up?
have any pics with the shop full?
have any pics with the shop full?
It's holding up fine. I went through what was left of a New England winter. I just cleaned off the floor every week to get all the **** out (mop+squeegee). No problems or anything to report with the summer. I've notice the integraflex expanding and contracting in the expansion joint but no separation from the slabs or cracking. I've dragged across engine hoists/stands etc and it seems to hold up just fine. When I did the floor I wasn't expecting it to stay in a 'as new' state but it still looks very nice. Originally I just wanted to seal the concrete. I wasn't expecting much success with the older concrete area (double garage sized area) as I'm sure there is no vapor barrier and it always seemed a little damp but its holding up very nicely and is now a very useful and dry area (currently housing my project cars).
I guess you could say I'm happy.
In the mean time I have installed some lista cabinets (nexus and stainless tops) and am just about to put in a lift (decided on a mohawk). I guess some picture updates would be a good idea. This might force me to cleanup a bit.
I'm also doing a floor with my neighbor (George) who was my helper on my floor. We've (I've) already done some grinding of his walls so it should be down in the next couple of weeks. We're going to go with wolverine again since I had such a good experience with my floor. However, in this case we're going for a UV resistant clear coat since George likes to keep his doors open all the time. I have a feeling that this will be even nicer than my floor given how much time I've spent smoothing his walls and how fussy he is. George has a habit of bringing his friends over to check out my garage and the floor is always the first thing they notice.
I think I may have some other 'takers' at work so I might even help out with some more. Not sure I would give up my day job though......
Jaguar Fan
Well-known member
After you filled the expansion joint with integraflex, do you cover it with bondtite/liquitile/bondtite? If so, when the integraflex expands/contracts, doesn't that crack the floor coating above it?
Thanks... and glad to hear it is meeting your expectations. You really did a super job.
premierguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 24, 2008
- Messages
- 92
NP1 is also flexable and less costly.
premierguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 24, 2008
- Messages
- 92
Excluding Plastics and "Plasticized Materials" Epoxies will stick to anything.
WolverineCoatings
Well-known member
My perspective is different. Although epoxies are known to have the best adhesion to many things (in general), there are plenty of things that unmodified epoxies won't stick to. (Most DIY epoxies would fall into the unmodified category) The first thing would be siliconized caulks that someone might decide to use in an expansion joint. There are also siliconized alkyd compounds and concrete stains. Unmodified epoxies usually don't stick to stainless steel, glass, or rubber. This list could go on... if I didn't have a life.
In my opinion, it's a wise move to use a material in the expansion joints that is flexible and that a subsequent coating can CHEMICALLY bond to. While it is possible to coat over a substance that your coating won't bond to, the coating will just sit on top and will probably break loose at some point. Chemical bonding to the flexible surface also eliminates the risk that a bubble could form between the two layers.
I'm sure that there are alot of cheap materials that could be used in place of a material that the manufacturer of YOUR system would recommend. In my opinion it's a crazy risk to take. That one ranks right up there with using cheap primer or a primer with fillers/pigment in it. I look at it alot like building a house. The foundation (primer and joint filler) should be built as strong as possible. Each coat that goes on top of that becomes easier to repair if necessary. Just like your house, it's alot easier to repair a shingle to fix a roof leak than it would be to fix a concrete slab foundation that is crumbling.
So, rather than taking someone's (including me) word for it that has no risk or responsibility to you... Ask the manufacturer of the product that you are installing what they recommend and DO IT!
premierguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 24, 2008
- Messages
- 92
As far as I know, there isn’t a “Cure All method” proven to avoid a joint failure, so it would be wise to consider a topical product that can work as joint filler to remedy areas that will eventually fail in due time….
Makes me wonder if materials that can solidify in high moisture areas are the better choice?
And what about blending new materials to previously applied materials?
I think someone needs to make available a Fix/re-coat all-in-one kit to keep those crappy coatings from re-entering my earth.
Makes me wonder if materials that can solidify in high moisture areas are the better choice?
And what about blending new materials to previously applied materials?
I think someone needs to make available a Fix/re-coat all-in-one kit to keep those crappy coatings from re-entering my earth.
Last edited:
WolverineCoatings
Well-known member
I'm not sure I'm understanding your point. While there are not materials that are going to be earthquake proof... there are MANY manufacturers of joint sealing products that can last for decades. I guess the question is what are you calling:
Which materials are you referring to that won't? Acrylics?
The applicator should ALWAYS determine compatibily or remove the old material and start over...
Hmmm... what do you mean? What would be the scenario?
I was just putting together a post for my neighbors floor (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20542) so I do have a more recent photo (today). Only one of the bays though but it shows the lista cabinets in that bay:
premierguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 24, 2008
- Messages
- 92
areas that will eventually fail in due time….
Some three weeks ago, I ventured inside a Walmart where the Joint Filler was compressed and released from the vertical joint itself... this could have been an unprofessional choice in materials, but for a large store of its size? I then made my way over to the Garden Center by the door opening and noticed it was worse there.
Makes me wonder if materials that can solidify in high moisture areas are the better choice?
I must say... you do have a keen eye at that.
There are acrylic gels that could use a bit more organics that would work extremely well based on fluorinated matrix... I would still use a product that can penetrate deeper into a sidewall Joint (to increase the amount of latency) as well as disinfected the dirt to inhibit the migration of sulfur/alkali deposits released up and down the joint walls from pressure and moisture that will eventually deteriorate the elasticity of most filler compounds..... but what the hell am I bringing this up for? This is an eventual fix it scenario regardless.
And what about blending new materials to previously applied materials?
In a scenario where 20% of the joints have failed within a 6 year period, I would think it more beneficial to at least try and refill those areas with a product that will blend well -topically/aesthetically.
Some three weeks ago, I ventured inside a Walmart where the Joint Filler was compressed and released from the vertical joint itself... this could have been an unprofessional choice in materials, but for a large store of its size? I then made my way over to the Garden Center by the door opening and noticed it was worse there.
Makes me wonder if materials that can solidify in high moisture areas are the better choice?
I must say... you do have a keen eye at that.
There are acrylic gels that could use a bit more organics that would work extremely well based on fluorinated matrix... I would still use a product that can penetrate deeper into a sidewall Joint (to increase the amount of latency) as well as disinfected the dirt to inhibit the migration of sulfur/alkali deposits released up and down the joint walls from pressure and moisture that will eventually deteriorate the elasticity of most filler compounds..... but what the hell am I bringing this up for? This is an eventual fix it scenario regardless.
And what about blending new materials to previously applied materials?
In a scenario where 20% of the joints have failed within a 6 year period, I would think it more beneficial to at least try and refill those areas with a product that will blend well -topically/aesthetically.
Since it's been almost 2 years I thought it would be interesting to have some feedback from my flooring project.
This was one of the first floors done on this forum using the Wolverine product.
Since Wolverine didn't have their urethane (Endurashield) available for DIY for the top coat at this stage I used Bondtite (epoxy clear) as the topcoat. The Bondtite has mellowed a little and yellowed where I put it on the exposed area just in front of the doors (full exposure to the sun). I was expecting this so no surprise.
Since I subsequently did a floor for my neighbor using Endurashield as the top coate I know that it won't yellow at all. I really need to post a picture of that floor as it looks identical to the day that it was finished.
Anyway, back to my floor. The first winter I had zero issues. It is really messy in the winter here in MA and I washed the garage out weekly. Still looked like new.
The second winter (last winter) we had some really bad conditions for frost heave. The road our house is on was a real mess; buckled and huge cracks. I was sure that the town was going to have to replace it. The old timers assured me it would all go back to normal in the spring (which it did).
As part of this heave phenomenon the drainage apron in front of my garage also experienced the same conditions i.e it lifted. I didn't epoxy this area, but.......
If you look back at my installation I epoxied the front 'bit' (6 inches) of my garage floor out to where the drainage apron starts. They are 2 different pours, for reasons I can understand now. However, unfortunately when I layed the epoxy I let the bondtite primer 'fuse' the 2 areas together.
So you can guess what happened. The Bondtite is definitely stronger than the concrete; the Bondtite won and the concrete lost !
Here is the damage caused by the frost heave:
All of the epoxy bits had substantial amounts of concrete adhering to them. None of the epoxy itself failed; as expected.
So on to the fix.
I decided to go ultra light gray without flakes on this area (approx 6 inches by 32 feet). This time I was going to use Endurashield as the top coat. So a call to Fred and a short time later I was ready to go....
The fix was to be done using the Bondtite primer, Liquitile color coat and Endurashield as the clear top coat.
Actually, as crazy as this sounds, I was looking forward to doing this as I wanted to see if I could make the repair seamless with the existing floor.
To make sure there was no step between the old and new I scored a line using a diamond grinder wheel in my cheapo Dewalt grinder that has served me so well. I used a scrap board as a straight edge. I was expecting the diamond grinder wheel to 'chatter' along he straight edge but it seemed to go quite smoothly. I originally attempted to use a normal fibrous concrete wheel but it was hopeless.
I also got rid of the yellowing bondtite. Actually as soon as I removed a small amount of the topcoat the yellow was gone; so it doesn't appear to penetrate far.
Then I used my trusty Bosch concrete grinder yet again and attempted to feather the broken concrete up to the scored line. That epoxy is difficult stuff to get grind !
Here's one side with the scoring done ready to go. I left a small amount of the original color on the floor as it was all very sound. I could have left all of what was still down as it was adhering really well to the concrete but I was having too much fun
Masking up. I put the masking tape right the the edge of the score line. I used the 'stickiest' blue tape I could get. From experience I could have used duct tape but I had a plan....
...firstly I applied the bondtite primer and did not remove the masking tape. This was so the bondtite would seal the masking edge and not allow any of the color coat to blead. The color coat was going down the next day so I wasn't that worried about the tape being stuck forever. For this I used a single 12 oz mix of bondtite for both sides.
After putting the color down (24 oz each side; nice heavy coat) I removed the masking tape. I had to wait for enough time to allow liquitile to 'stay' but not too long as to create a hard edge. Its just something you need to have a feel for. After removing the tape the liquitile just 'sat down' and there was was no blead through and an absolutely sharp edge.
When I put down the endurashield (2 coats; each 10oz) I masked the first coat a little onto the original top coat. This allowed the new edge to be sealed with the old.
The second coat I did a little more onto the original coat so it would merge more with the old. This was so there is no step between the old and new
And the finished result. It is really hard. The endurashield is very very hard. I'm not sure how durable the light color will be but it looks fantastic.
and a closeup
Some things I learnt from this excercise:
1. Don't fill concrete joins with bondtite that are going to move,
2. Instead use integraflex,
3. Use endurashield as a top coat,
4. To make really nice sharp joins in epoxy score and mask,
5. I'm allergic to endurashield !
and a more recent interior picture of the garage.
This was one of the first floors done on this forum using the Wolverine product.
Since Wolverine didn't have their urethane (Endurashield) available for DIY for the top coat at this stage I used Bondtite (epoxy clear) as the topcoat. The Bondtite has mellowed a little and yellowed where I put it on the exposed area just in front of the doors (full exposure to the sun). I was expecting this so no surprise.
Since I subsequently did a floor for my neighbor using Endurashield as the top coate I know that it won't yellow at all. I really need to post a picture of that floor as it looks identical to the day that it was finished.
Anyway, back to my floor. The first winter I had zero issues. It is really messy in the winter here in MA and I washed the garage out weekly. Still looked like new.
The second winter (last winter) we had some really bad conditions for frost heave. The road our house is on was a real mess; buckled and huge cracks. I was sure that the town was going to have to replace it. The old timers assured me it would all go back to normal in the spring (which it did).
As part of this heave phenomenon the drainage apron in front of my garage also experienced the same conditions i.e it lifted. I didn't epoxy this area, but.......
If you look back at my installation I epoxied the front 'bit' (6 inches) of my garage floor out to where the drainage apron starts. They are 2 different pours, for reasons I can understand now. However, unfortunately when I layed the epoxy I let the bondtite primer 'fuse' the 2 areas together.
So you can guess what happened. The Bondtite is definitely stronger than the concrete; the Bondtite won and the concrete lost !
Here is the damage caused by the frost heave:
All of the epoxy bits had substantial amounts of concrete adhering to them. None of the epoxy itself failed; as expected.
So on to the fix.
I decided to go ultra light gray without flakes on this area (approx 6 inches by 32 feet). This time I was going to use Endurashield as the top coat. So a call to Fred and a short time later I was ready to go....
The fix was to be done using the Bondtite primer, Liquitile color coat and Endurashield as the clear top coat.
Actually, as crazy as this sounds, I was looking forward to doing this as I wanted to see if I could make the repair seamless with the existing floor.
To make sure there was no step between the old and new I scored a line using a diamond grinder wheel in my cheapo Dewalt grinder that has served me so well. I used a scrap board as a straight edge. I was expecting the diamond grinder wheel to 'chatter' along he straight edge but it seemed to go quite smoothly. I originally attempted to use a normal fibrous concrete wheel but it was hopeless.
I also got rid of the yellowing bondtite. Actually as soon as I removed a small amount of the topcoat the yellow was gone; so it doesn't appear to penetrate far.
Then I used my trusty Bosch concrete grinder yet again and attempted to feather the broken concrete up to the scored line. That epoxy is difficult stuff to get grind !
Here's one side with the scoring done ready to go. I left a small amount of the original color on the floor as it was all very sound. I could have left all of what was still down as it was adhering really well to the concrete but I was having too much fun
Masking up. I put the masking tape right the the edge of the score line. I used the 'stickiest' blue tape I could get. From experience I could have used duct tape but I had a plan....
...firstly I applied the bondtite primer and did not remove the masking tape. This was so the bondtite would seal the masking edge and not allow any of the color coat to blead. The color coat was going down the next day so I wasn't that worried about the tape being stuck forever. For this I used a single 12 oz mix of bondtite for both sides.
After putting the color down (24 oz each side; nice heavy coat) I removed the masking tape. I had to wait for enough time to allow liquitile to 'stay' but not too long as to create a hard edge. Its just something you need to have a feel for. After removing the tape the liquitile just 'sat down' and there was was no blead through and an absolutely sharp edge.
When I put down the endurashield (2 coats; each 10oz) I masked the first coat a little onto the original top coat. This allowed the new edge to be sealed with the old.
The second coat I did a little more onto the original coat so it would merge more with the old. This was so there is no step between the old and new
And the finished result. It is really hard. The endurashield is very very hard. I'm not sure how durable the light color will be but it looks fantastic.
and a closeup
Some things I learnt from this excercise:
1. Don't fill concrete joins with bondtite that are going to move,
2. Instead use integraflex,
3. Use endurashield as a top coat,
4. To make really nice sharp joins in epoxy score and mask,
5. I'm allergic to endurashield !
and a more recent interior picture of the garage.
great follow-up. these are the long-term tests that are more indicative of a good product and good prep as opposed to someone who just laid down the floor.
I am glad the floor is holding up. I also went with Bondtite as a topcoat both for cost savings and the fact that my garage floor should not be exposed to the sun for long periods of time. looks like the floor inside the garage still looks fantastic.
I am glad the floor is holding up. I also went with Bondtite as a topcoat both for cost savings and the fact that my garage floor should not be exposed to the sun for long periods of time. looks like the floor inside the garage still looks fantastic.
thegarageguy
Well-known member
I'm really impressed by your clean transition line from new and old. If you are ever looking for a job in NJ...... drop me a line 
Linda@Lista
Well-known member
I was just putting together a post for my neighbors floor (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20542) so I do have a more recent photo (today). Only one of the bays though but it shows the lista cabinets in that bay:
Love the cabinets
Linda@Lista
