Mystery Ratchets??

[AntiqueBen]

Hi All,

I found a couple of 1/2" ratchets that I'm having trouble identifying. The one with the round knurled handle has no markings but I believe it is a Billings. The other one has me perplexed. I've have some older ratchets that have the male & female operation, but I have never seen a ratchet that has both the male & female operation and the lever at the same time?? I thought the purpose of reversing the male piece of your ratchet is to change the direction, so why the lever in addition to this?? Or, if you already have the lever there, why the male/female construction? I guess you could change sizes, 1/2" drive to 3/8" drive. But that seems like a lot of extra tooling to simply offer that. Seems like you would just make it one way or the other. It's heavy & operates like a dream. I don't see a way to service it though. Of course there are no markings on this thing. Anyone have any ideas about the purpose of this, or the era? Just looking for any info at this point.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Well, I've been fooled and wrong before, but the top one is looking contract-y Proto-ish and the bottom one is looking contract-y Duro-Indestro-ish to me.

 

[saukit]

I'm no expert but I agree with Lugz, Proto up top and Indestro below. The bottom one is interesting because the selector switch is like the older ratchets but the handle looks like the Indestro Select stuff...

 

[Straightgrain]

I think someone had the face plate off the top ratchet and put it on backwards. If you take the plate off, you'll probably find PROTO stampings on the other side.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Son of a gun....look what I found! You all were right. Plate had been reversed at some point. Good call. I guess a Proto professional is a descent ratchet. Anyone know why Indestro would make a ratchet that operates like this one? I'm still wandering the purpose.

 

[Jacobs976]

Indestro might've been a transitional model. Flip ratchets had the same teeth design as far as I know so gear would be the same dimensions. Might've used up old parts stock before using the new stuff/starting production on one piece male gears.

This is just a guess of course but seems logical to me at least.

 

[d42jeep]

The Indestro ratchet took care of both male and female drives with one tool. Those were popular until male drives became the norm. I have plenty of them in 1/4”, 3/8” and 1/2” drive.
-Don
Your ratchet was likely made by Indestro for Wards.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Awesome collection Don! Do you find Indestro's quality as good as the other major players? Looks like you have one like mine that's in a set with sockets. Is the handle on that one different than all the others because it came in a socket set?

 

[d42jeep]

That ratchet should probably have come with a set sold by Wards. I put a Duro Chrome ratchet into my set. Yours and mine are the only ones I‘ve seen with that particular handle. It was ID‘ed for me by Indestro expert four.cycle.
-Don

 

[AntiqueBen]

Interesting. Looks like this particular ratchet is not as common & they probably manufactured less of them compared to the others. Would be interesting to find out when they manufactured them & for how long. I wandered why I was having a hard time finding this ratchet with that handle online. I've checked AA & other reliable sites & I can't find anything.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The uncommon handle gave me pause, but the shape of the head, the dark face plate, the selector, and that small apron of steel just below the head on the shank are Duro/Indestro tells.

 

[AntiqueBen]

True. Now that I think more about it, these particular Indestro's are the only ratchet I've seen that has a selector that can change the direction on a female ratchet without flipping the male stud.

 

[bonneyman]

I like that style of Duro ratchet. You can employ the plug to use sockets on them, or use the 1/4"er straight as is on various king valves, A/C access port valves, and water spigots. And nobody will steal them, because they're old looking and not chrome!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...these particular Indestro's are the only ratchet I've seen that has a selector that can change the direction on a female ratchet without flipping the male stud.

There are others out there, especially older, including Billings and Lowell, but Plomb made one in the same era as the Duro/Indestro. They were sold with and without the drive plug. The drive plug is throwing you off, but if you ignore that, as both Don and bonneyman alluded to, it's essentially a female drive reversible ratchet. The drive plug has nothing to do with its reversibility. The drive plug converts it into a male drive reversible ratchet.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I see what you're saying. I was thinking about it differently I guess. The drive plug is the only way a female ratchet can be used. Then to change direction you put the plug on the other side. In this case, because it has a lever, you don't have to do this making it a male drive reversible ratchet. I'm still wandering the purpose of making it both ways? If the purpose was for it to be a male drive, thus the lever so you don't have to reverse the plug, then why not just make a male drive ratchet? In a sense, these type ratchets have two different ways to to change direction. I guess that's what is confusing me. Leaving the plug out of it, why would a ratchet need to offer two different ways to change direction on the same ratchet? Either way a drive plug has to be used. That's why I was wandering if this was a transitional tool. Sorry, don't mean to go down the rabbit hole on this one.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I guess the shorter way to say it is, if you're going to put a lever on it, why not just make it a male reversible ratchet? The lever makes it's female operation pointless

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The drive plug is the only way a female ratchet can be used.

That's not true. They can be used on 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" and 1" diameter square fasteners. @bonneyman mentioned a few applications in post #14. No sockets are involved. That's the part you've been missing. The earliest ratchets were all female and they did not drive sockets, they drove fasteners. On and off. Reversibly.

As an aside, early Brass Era socket sets had female ratchets with an 11/16" female opening that could drive pressed steel sockets from the female opening, around the male drive tangs, or, with extensions, that were 11/16" on one end and 1/2" on the other, for driving the 1/2" sockets from the inside of the drive tang.

 

[d42jeep]

These Duro/Indestro ratchet’s drive is fixed with a female drive on the selector side and a male drive on the opposite side. That is what makes these reversing ratchets so versatile. No need to mess around with a removable plug. I believe that the ratchets with the removable plug are earlier.
-Don

 

[Ricky Joe]

Son of a gun....look what I found! You all were right. Plate had been reversed at some point. Good call. I guess a Proto professional is a descent ratchet. Anyone know why Indestro would make a ratchet that operates like this one? I'm still wandering the purpose.

Indestro made that ratchet because they also made double male extensions. The ratchet is more versatile because it can accommodate both styles.

 

[Zrxrunner]

Ive got one to throw in there for everyone to figure out. Im fairly convinced the handle is a homemade...very well done by the way...but, the drive end in the proto 5450 head looks like its for a keyed 5/16 shaft. The black oxide finish on that looks factory. Any ideas???

 

[AntiqueBen]

That's an interesting ratchet you got there. Something like that looks like it serves a specific purpose. I'm sure it's the perfect tool for the job...if you only knew which job.

 

[JjKk40]

Ive got one to throw in there for everyone to figure out. Im fairly convinced the handle is a homemade...very well done by the way...but, the drive end in the proto 5450 head looks like its for a keyed 5/16 shaft. The black oxide finish on that looks factory. Any ideas???

Not homemade. I have the exact same one except the detent ball in the handle on mine is busted, I wish it wasn't. I have to fix it.
Mine is all chrome plated tho and came with no anvil but had the faceplate and both pawls with springs.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I agree with saukit in the 3d post. My Indestro looks like a Super Brand model Indestro with a Select series handle. Maybe it is some type of transitional piece?? I've looked all over the internet & I can't find another example like mine & Don's. It's not a case of using up old stock because they would have to change the handle & they wouldn't do that. I'm guessing this happened in the late 50's as the Super Brand was on the way out & right before the Select series started in '61. I've heard of manufacturers making a special ratchet that only came in a special set w/sockets or something. I think Craftsman did that a few times through the years.

 

[3baygarage]

Ive got one to throw in there for everyone to figure out. Im fairly convinced the handle is a homemade...very well done by the way...but, the drive end in the proto 5450 head looks like its for a keyed 5/16 shaft. The black oxide finish on that looks factory. Any ideas???

I’ve seen a few of those over the years, but not sure on the exact use. Member C1504 posted this catalog page in the Proto thread. A very similar handle In the middle.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Don mentioned in post 7 that maybe our Indestro ratchet was made for Wards. AA gives pics & info on the Indestro ratchet made for Wards. Same handle, but it's a fixed male drive with a different head. Unless they made more than one type for Wards, this isn't it either.

 

[bonneyman]

That's an interesting ratchet you got there. Something like that looks like it serves a specific purpose. I'm sure it's the perfect tool for the job...if you only knew which job.

Yeah, it's a solution in search of a problem.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Looks like if you needed to get in a thin spot & get on to a bolt & then use the handle on the end at a 90 degree angle from the main handle for leverage....that would be the tool.

 

[AntiqueBen]

With my luck that's the tool when I need it, I don't have it. But if I have it, I never have the chance to use it

 

[d42jeep]

Don mentioned in post 7 that maybe our Indestro ratchet was made for Wards. AA gives pics & info on the Indestro ratchet made for Wards. Same handle, but it's a fixed male drive with a different head. Unless they made more than one type for Wards, this isn't it either.

Lots of manufacturers made ratchets for Wards. The example that AA has is just a more modern version of yours. Both were made by Duro/Indestro.
-Don
Here are some early and slightly later 3/8” drive examples.

 

[d42jeep]

Check these from OTG’s collection of Wards tools. One or two will look very familiar.
-Don

30s Indestro Duro Chrome 678D with Unusual Handle

It seems like there are very few of these around with this handle, do you know what year these were made or anything about them? I fell in love with the design. Also wondering the best way to clean inside (if I should) and oil.

www.garagejournal.com

 

[AntiqueBen]

You have a nice Indestro collection Don. Looks like you've been collecting them for a while. I have a lot of older Craftsman ratchets & sockets I've collected over the years, but these Indestro's are really starting to grow on me. I've seen online a couple different versions that Indestro made for Wards. Each one has it's differences. I noticed on the older ones the stud for the lever is square (4 sides) & later ones it has 6 sides. So if Indestro started making tools for Wards in the '30's & '40's, would you place our ratchet some where in the '40's??

 

[d42jeep]

My best guess would be immediate postwar based on still having the plug. Wards catalogs aren’t as common as Sears so it’s hard to know for sure.
-Don

 

[AntiqueBen]

Thanks for all the info Don. I just bought this one online. I looks like the older style but is not a female ratchet. It's a male drive & the stud for the lever is square & has the apron like my other one. This is the first one I've seen with the lever side of the head with that circle like that. Most of the other Wards are smooth with only the lever & marked MW. I'm guessing this is older as well...maybe Indestro's first male drive for Wards? Ever seen this one before??

 

[Plombob]

Son of a gun....look what I found! You all were right. Plate had been reversed at some point. Good call. I guess a Proto professional is a descent ratchet. Anyone know why Indestro would make a ratchet that operates like this one? I'm still wandering the purpose.

Those Proto rats are bulletproof. You can abuse them and they will keep working. When they wear out, a repair kit will make them like new.

 

[four.cycle]

RE:

AntiqueBen's recently acquired ratchet is the equivalent to an Indestro model 3202-R, and was made for Montgomery Ward.
The handle is the give-away feature.
The same handle is used on other Ward's ratchets, some of which are marked with the Ward name (see OTG's examples above.)
There is another Duro Ratchet thread in which I posted several dozen photos I'd harvested from ebay listings in part for the purpose of determining which private label account Indestro was manufacturing these "pressed flange" ratchets for.
This one is unquestionably the Ward model.
Indestro continued to offer the model 3202-R at least up until the printing of the 1959 catalog.

Ignore the notations about "Super" and "Select" at Alloy-Artifacts.org. I have sent the site administrator links to the catalogs and supporting documentation but unfortunately he has thus far not corrected the errata on the site concerning those "brand names" that Indestro was using.

The "Select Tools" brand name was trademarked about 1962, as I recall. (TM 733592 registered 1962, claims first use Mar 21 1961)
Indestro Tool catalogs are available for download at International Tool Catalog Library

As noted above, Montgomery Ward catalogs are not in abundant supply. I sent ITCL a 1931 copy, but it may be some time before Mark is able to get it scanned and uploaded. (The pages are rather fragile so scanning the volume will require its destruction.)
Unfortunately 1931 is too early for this particular "pressed flange" ratchet model, the earliest version of which wasn't patented until 1933 (patent 1902878.)

I may be mistaken, but I think Mark was able to score a later MW catalog just within the last couple of weeks. (I could be mistaken, my brain's been somewhat addled lately because I've been sick.) If he did get that volume, it may take some time for him to get it scanned and uploaded.

I have no clue about the other models shown above.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Sorry to hear your not feeling well. I am looking forward to seeing those wards uploads!

 

[four.cycle]

^ I posted several pages of "tools" out of the 1931 Ward catalog here. Again, that's too early for the "pressed flange" ratchet above.
Mark hasn't tackled that volume yet, due to time constraints.
Again, my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I believe he recently acquired a later issue. (I could well have my wires crossed - things have not been real clear for me for a few weeks.)

 

[AntiqueBen]

Thanks four.cycle for all this valuable Indestro info. Have you ever seen an example like the one I posted pics of on post #33? These Indestro/Duro rats are growing on me. I find interesting the one's that are both male & female. Seems odd to offer both options on the same ratchet. Looking forward to the Wards catalog. I wander when Indestro/Duro started making ratchets for Wards? Feel better.

 

[four.cycle]

The unit you have posted above (post #33) is a male square drive ratchet, equivalent to Indestro's later models 3201 (1/2" drive) or 2789 (3/8" drive.) In a later catalog (1952 catalog No. 20) they introduced a male-drive model 2889 (which replaced the earlier female-drive 2889, a completely different unit puzzlingly using the same part number, but that's a different subject.)

Both the female-drive and male-drive models were produced concurrently. Your Ward model is just another iteration of the 3201 or 2789 with that Ward handle:

 

[AntiqueBen]

So, Indestro changed the entire handle construction for Wards on the 3201 & 3202. The only thing that's the same is the actual head. Must have been a major contract with Wards for Indestro to change that much of the tooling & construction of the ratchet. Thanks for the catalog pics. Do you find it strange for Indestro to not mark some of their tools? My ratchet in the first post clearly is for Wards but has no markings anywhere?