Old Walden Worcester

[four.cycle]

1920 Kelley-How-Thomson Co. catalog pp 416 Walden Worcester ad

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Some old 1/2" stuff

 

[four.cycle]

^ lots of "Chrome Nickel" in there!

 

[Leviton]

Speeders...
6020 (5/8") speeder with doorknob end
6020 (5/8") with ball end

... I have a fixed speed wrench, Model No. 6020 with a 5/8" socket press-fit on the business end, and the same exact ball knob. I guess I should've used the d42jeep-esque line, "That looks familiar." I posted it back in 2019 in this thread, linked here. It accentuates just how early your interchangeable socket set is.

I found the rare third version of the 6020. So rare that I have the only one in existence.

I don't usually buy braces, but I had to have this one so I dug deep and paid the $2.

Perfectly executed and solid as a rock. Works great.

The chuck end has no external markings, but there is a patent date inside on the jaws: 12-12-1911. That patent was assigned to Stanley. (Interesting that the DATAMP entry says that these jaws were not known to have been produced).

 

[RTM]

Drop them a note, that is their default setting, yours might even get featured if you include the pix. But beware, they are buried right now, and could use more volunteers,

 

[leg17]

That "5/8" and "6020" says it was a fixed socket wrench modified to hold the brace chuck.
IMHO.

 

[Leviton]

That "5/8" and "6020" says it was a fixed socket wrench modified to hold the brace chuck.
IMHO.

I totally agree.

 

[HeelSpur]

Snag this off ebay.

DSCF3918 (2) by wvwheaties, on Flickr
DSCF3920 (2) by wvwheaties, on Flickr
DSCF3922 (2) by wvwheaties, on Flickr

 

[Provincial]

Some items from Sunday's auto swap meet and flea market:

Walden 1020 Flex T 5/8"
SW spintite 3/8
Stevens Walden offset screwdriver
Walden 2720 T 5/8

 

[Leviton]

Some items from Sunday's auto swap meet and flea market:

Walden 1020 Flex T 5/8"
SW spintite 3/8
Stevens Walden offset screwdriver
Walden 2720 T 5/8

Like the Walden Flex - haven't seen a flex end before.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

A 1/4" master set

 

[bonneyman]

Love the laminated look on that one wrench, Heel.

I see four individual strips on it. Neat!

 

[MisterEd]

Stevens-Walden from a sweaty garage yesterday.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I think this might be the only Walden swivel socket I have ever found, snatched with the others I have been posting (Wright, Bog, [S.R.], etc) out of a big bin of mainly modern chrome or impacts yesterday. It's very well made, No. 4124, 3/8-inch drive, with a 3/4" 12-point opening.

 

[Ed in Virginia]

Walden-Worcester tools from my collection:

 

[mritchie77]

My $22 set came in today. Looks cad plated to me, but either the paint or green verdigris makes the socket look gross. I'll be cleaning them up and figuring something out with the case. According to the '48 catalog, this is a complete set.







However, there is this unmarked chrome plated looking socket.

 

[d42jeep]

Nice early war cad plated set. Here is an ad from 1942. How many hinge elements does the box have?
-Don

 

[mritchie77]

Nice early war cad plated set. Here is an ad from 1942. How many hinge elements does the box have?
-Don

Not sure how they are classified, but here's a photo.



Using your advice, I used brakekleen and all the sockets and drive tools cleaned up nicely. Looking through, this is a complete 3100A with that extra unmarked oddball piece.

 

[d42jeep]

I don’t recognize the mystery socket. It is thought that the earlier Walden boxes have five hinge elements and the later boxes have six, like yours.
-Don

 

[MisterEd]

Inquring mind wants to know the significance, if any, between a right opening and a left opening 1/4 Drive Set other than their respective finishes.

 

[four.cycle]

I don’t recognize the mystery socket.

Same here. NOT Walden. Not Meteor. Not G.M. Mfg. Co. Not Oxwall. Wall thickness causes me to think "low end", but knurling is all wrong for those three brands.
BK

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Not sure how they are classified, but here's a photo.

At one time (up through the end of 2011), on a site called G503.com, in the infancy of GMTK collecting (each GMTK had a 41-W-2615 midget socket set, among about a hundred other pieces), the "Conventional Wisdom" on WW midget sets was that all 5-hinge boxes were wartime and all 6-hinge boxes were postwar. Until sets with wartime construction, markings, configuration and finish started showing up in 6-hinge boxes. Mine was actually the first. Then the roof caved in. The CW changed to 5-hinge early, 6-hinge late and postwar, depending on the other factors (construction, markings, configuration and finish). Lately, though, this original pioneer is less definitive about any of the CW he was instrumental in developing.

Looking through, this is a complete 3100A

Yes, perhaps, but the CW would say your pieces don't match your box.

I'll explain...

Because of the finish (cad) and the markings (Long W) on the sockets, and their number and configuration (sizes and broachings), there was a time when the CW would say you have a complete early- to mid-war wartime commercial 3100A set, or a partial early- to mid-war wartime GMTK set (missing its ratchet, sliding tee, and extension), inside a 6-hinge postwar box. Meaning, it looks like a PO may have taken the early- to mid-war pieces and put them inside a postwar box that the pieces were not original to.

Then there was a time, after 2012, when the CW on these would say you have a complete early- to mid-war wartime commercial 3100A set, a partial early- to mid-war wartime GMTK set (missing its ratchet, sliding tee, and extension), inside a 6-hinge late war box. Meaning, it looks like a PO may have taken the early- to mid-war pieces and put them inside a late war box that the pieces were not original to. And some collectors would say that right now. Such is the strength of the cad=early, 5-hinge=early, and black ox/6-hinge=late sequencing CW.

Lately, as I mentioned, I am not as sure of the CW dating these sets too strictly and definitively based on construction, markings, configuration, finish, and hinge elements as I once was. I have seen enough anomalies and we just don't have enough provenance on any of the sets being original to each other or the boxes to be too strict with sequencing, in my opinion. Other collectors have disagreed with me on that. I am not trying to persuade them or anyone else to agree with me. And I am equally un-persuadable. So there is no reason to go into it.

But it does make me open to other possibilities...

Your set could be a postwar 3100A set inside its original postwar 3100A box, exactly as you have identified for yourself. Many mfgrs used cadmium before and after the war as a price point line finish. It was not only a wartime finish. And it's possible WW was using old stock.

Or, it could be a complete late war GMTK set (no rat, tee, or extension specified) that does not adhere to the late war all 6-point specs or the cad/Long W=early sequence, or it adheres to some later war or even postwar spec we don't have, in its original late war 6-hinge box.

Or, it could simply be an early- to mid-war commercial 3100A set, or a partial GMTK set (missing its ratchet, tee, and extension), exactly as the CW-adherents would say, but inside its original 6-hinge box, defying the CW on the strict 5=early 6=late hinge element sequence. (What if they got them from multiple suppliers? What if they got them from the same suppliers using multiple suppliers for hinges? etc)

What is the most plausible?

Go with "transitional"! That always works!

Or even more broadly, a wartime set in a wartime box.

...and figuring something out with the case.

Does it look like it's been re-painted? I don't see anything under that kelly green but steel. I suppose it's possible someone completely stripped the original finish, and re-painted it that color. As I and others mentioned on the 'Midget' thread when you first posted this there, and as you can probably see from examples, there was a darker almost olive green, a much more common darker but truer (not olive) green, and then red (postwar).

 

[d42jeep]

Looking closely at the lid of Ed’s box looks like something was done to it while the paint was wet.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I saw that! I couldn't tell if it was a reflection (almost like tree branches through a honeycomb skylight) or something in that shape got put on top of it before it was dry.

 

[RTM]

looks like they were using an unwound baseball as a distressing agent, not all the same (something about on TV the other night)

 

[four.cycle]

Wow.

@Private Lugnutz -

Your post above regarding the "CW" concerning older Walden-Worcester 1/4" drive SAE socket sets is about as close to accuracy as we can reasonably hope to get at this moment, lacking any documentation from Walden in the form of catalogs from that era, of which none have been found.

When Don and I started doing the "tradesies" thing on some odd pieces so we could both complete sets, I thought it was a bit nutty at first - how could there possibly be that many font styles, knurling patterns, plain bands, and all of them seemingly available in both six-point and twelve-point? Seriously? Wait... in plain black, cad, and plated?
After several mis-shipped sockets, I believe I finally was able to get the right one to him

You left out one more "what if":

"OLD STOCK"

What if somebody went down into the basement and found fifty cases of (presumably earlier) five-element-hinge boxes some time after the six-element-hinge box had been put into production and distribution?

 

[mritchie77]

Looking closely at the lid of Ed’s box looks like something was done to it while the paint was wet.
-Don

Those marking line up exactly with the bubble wrap it was shipped in! LOL I can’t see any paint under the green, but the green is a thick tacky type paint.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

You left out one more "what if":

"OLD STOCK"

And it's possible WW was using old stock.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Those marking line up exactly with the bubble wrap it was shipped in!

HAHA! Leave it to me (geodesic dome skylight and tree branches reflection) to miss the most obvious explanation!

 

[four.cycle]

FTR: unless I'm mistaken, I've got older WW boxes that are dark olive green, like some of Don's, as well as the lighter green.
No reason for me to think any of them were repainted anywhere along the way.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I am not at all certain that box is not original, despite it being Kelly-er, if that's what you mean. Those imprints could "buff out".

 

[mritchie77]

FTR: unless I'm mistaken, I've got older WW boxes that are dark olive green, like some of Don's, as well as the lighter green.
No reason for me to think any of them were repainted anywhere along the way.

I'd be curious if they are the same shade. I've never seen a green this color, so it's suspect to me.

 

[mritchie77]

I am not at all certain that box is not original, despite it being Kelly-er, if that's what you mean. Those imprints could "buff out".

We know they added an oddball, but I do find it harder to believe they took a complete (or almost complete depending on the set) and but it in a different case later. If anything I'd say original but repainted.

 

[four.cycle]

I am not at all certain that box is not original, despite it being Kelly-er, if that's what you mean.

Exactomundo. As I said, I have WW sets in various shades of green. Four of mine and three of Don's for comparison:

 

[d42jeep]

I don’t know how many boxes I have but the factory green is generally pretty consistent. Here are some late war GMTK correct sets. If I’m putting together a late war set, the tools have to be black oxide. I don’t recall ever seeing a cad plated 6 point 7/16” socket, not for lack of looking.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

These FSN marked boxes look like they do because they went through a Colorado surplus warehouse flood. They started out the same green as the ones above.
-Don

 

[RTM]

And here is what red ones look like after that same flood. Somewhere I have a pic of mud chips inside one of those boxes. Guess I never posted these here.

 

[d42jeep]

Those were repacked in ‘56 according to the label. This is likely pretty much what they looked like when they were new. The red color is consistent as well.

-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...I do find it harder to believe they took a complete (or almost complete depending on the set) and put it in a different case later.

Agreed. By the same thinking, one could find it equally less credulous that the ratchet, sliding tee, and extension that would just happen to make them a different set just happen to be missing. Therefore, "early" (IAW CW) 3100A pieces in a "later" (IAW CW) 6-element hinge box. That's why I have been staying with formulations like 'nice probable wartime set in a nice probable wartime box' with a color that is, er, different.

I have WW sets in various shades of green.

I've only seen two greens. The sets that are more of a dark olive, and the sets that are more of a standard green, like Don is showing in post #395 above. I think those two are both factory, but clearly different. Some of the standard greens can have slightly lighter or darker shades than others. But it's the same color. If that's what you mean. But I've never seen one as kelly as mritchie's.

 

[d42jeep]

Another finish on 1/4” Walden boxes is the unpainted finish. There is a factory coating that leaves the boxes kind of a grey color. Every one I’ve seen has 5 hinge elements although I’ve seen green boxes with five hinge elements as well. The unpainted finish is one of my favorites and one of these is the set I keep in my early war MVMTS. I try to find examples with the FSN on them although those are more rare.
-Don