Pliers; How Many Is Too Many?

[GaryM909]

I picked up these German snap ring pliers a few years ago. They are branded LUX. The only thing I can find about them is that they seem to be the same as Seeger. They feel like they are very good quality.

 

[four.cycle]

^
Lux / Emil Lux GmbH & Co. KG, Emil-Lux-Str. 1, 42929 Wermelskirchen, Germany / https://lux-tools.emil-lux.de/ / est. 1919 /

 

[GaryM909]

^
Lux / Emil Lux GmbH & Co. KG, Emil-Lux-Str. 1, 42929 Wermelskirchen, Germany / https://lux-tools.emil-lux.de/ / est. 1919 /

This is one of the links I was looking at; https://www.elora.de/en/blog-news/circlip-pliers-from-elora/

There was also a couple sets on Ebay going by the Seeger name even though they look identical.
I have used them a few times and they feel really solid and they do work well.

 

[Mike'smeatshop]

Anyone knows what these pliers would be used for? Thanks.

 

[RTM]

Anyone knows what these pliers would be used for? Thanks.

Using the search

site:garagejournal.com "forge & tool"

and then looking for the word Corp after

Cuts down your choices to Utica


Maybe look here

Show Your Vintage Utica Tools!

I recently found a pair of Utica pliers at a garage sale and was surprised to find out that there wasn’t a thread dedicated to vintage Utica tools. I thought that I would get this thread started before Lugz updates the sticky at the beginning of the vintage discussion. I’ll get started with my...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[isb cornbinder]

Pliers are easy to dismiss and misplace. Eventually you need one. Or find another one at that sale . . .
Craftsman Water Pump Pliers, Non-Slip

If you do not have every plier ever made, you can count this as a failure.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Ref @Mike'smeatshop post #524. It's definitely Utica. Even if you can't make it out in the branding around the top of the pivot, it's fairly legible in the address around the bottom of the pivot. Those are side-cutting Button's pattern pliers.

I thought he was asking about the odd cutters. They're for snipping wire.

 

[Mike'smeatshop]

Ref @Mike'smeatshop post #524. It's definitely Utica. Even if you can't make it out in the branding around the top of the pivot, it's fairly legible in the address around the bottom of the pivot. Those are side-cutting Button's pattern pliers.

I thought he was asking about the odd cutters. They're for snipping wire.

I put them over in the Utica thread. I found a pair of Conks that were labeled wire cutters and benders. I can see the wire benders. Do you think Army Corp?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

No. Commercial.

 

[oldpliers1]

My latest addition ( should put them in the crescent thread) 1950-8T lineman’s with old pouch , last manufactured with black grips circa 1960, 64 years old, first manufactured with black tenite circa 1948.

 

[MR.X]

Still one of the great anti-theft owner's marks on this J.P. Danielson pair.

 

[Outlawmws]

Still one of the great anti-theft owner's marks on this J.P. Danielson pair.

Thats a great one!

I used to scratch "stolen from" and my name, on all my drafting templates and scales back in the day. they might get borrowed, but they always came back!

 

[Beerhippie]

Still one of the great anti-theft owner's marks on this J.P. Danielson pair.

Good ol' Bob China! Worked with him back in the '80s.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

As I was saying on the Screwdrivers and Hacksaws threads, I've been on a research binge, and in the process of reading very early (c. 1950, 1951) issues of PS: The Preventive Maintenance Monthly magazine, I ran across a series of these recurring "Hand Tool Clinic" features.

Here's the one on pliers.



If you're not familiar with PS, the US Army recruited a young cartoonist named Will Eisner (The Spirit, Blackhawk, others) into the Ordnance Dept during WWII, and from Aberdeen Proving Grounds, where all vehicular maintenance and training was HQ'd, he led a team as a warrant officer in making preventive maintenance more enjoyable (and more effective!) to mechanics by publishing mimeographed flyers in cartoon form, featuring his loveable loser character, Joe Dope. During WWII, they were published in Army Motors, but in 1950, Joe, Connie Rodd (pinup model in uniform), and Half-Mast McCannick (letter columnist), they became their own publication as a "postscript" (hence the name). Eisner would go on to become one of the most famous and influential cartoonists in history, including credit for the very first "graphic novel" in 1978. The Eisner Award is the highest annual honor in comics, and it's given at the Eisner Comic Books Hall of Fame.

 

[Beerhippie]

Interesting that there is no mention of a proper use case for "slop-joint" pliers.

 

[LesserSon]

“Slip joints are the most general-purpose pliers, but there is always a better pliers for any specific job.”

 

[JMP]

Just added a few more to my collection. I'm now of fan of these BMC locking pliers.

 

[oldpliers1]

Just added a few more to my collection. I'm now of fan of these BMC locking pliers.

What is the age of the locking pliers? what year was the first locking pliers patient? Thanks for posting nice items.

 

[JMP]

What is the age of the locking pliers? what year was the first locking pliers patient? Thanks for posting nice items.

I believe these pliers date to the 1950's or 1960's.

Here is some info related to the patent number:

US2478728A - Toggle actuated and adjustably mounted pivoted jaw wrench - Google Patents

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm now of fan of these BMC locking pliers.

Join the club! They came in three sizes: 7, 9, and 11. I have never seen an 11 in the wild, and consider it the rarest in my experience. Nice find! If you want to see more examples, information, period ads, etc, including the backstory (inventor owned a Chevy car dealership - Botnick Motor Corporation, and was dissatisfied with locking plier-wrenches not having square jaws or a graduated setting), we have an entire thread dedicated to BMC pliers. See "BMC" in the A-Z Index of Threads in the Sticky titled READ B4 POSTING at the top of the forum.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

what year was the first locking pliers patent?

Unfortunately, casual (and even many serious...) collectors point to the first Wm. Petersen (of "Vise-Grip" fame), 1,392,443, in 1921. And they even have Wikipedia on their side! Because, well, Vise-Grips, in name and number, are like the Borg, and also like Kleenex, or, more aptly, "Crescent wrench". But DATAMP deftly credits Collison & Wright, 1,280,405 in 1918, made by Ord Mfg, in Ord, Nebraska.

If that reference to Nebraska makes your spidey-senses tingle, it should. What DATAMP - and apparently nobody other than yours truly seems to have theorized, is that it's asking the dang near impossible for us to think that William Petersen, of DeWitt, Nebraska, arrived at his locking plier-wrench design completely independent of the design that Mssrs Collison & Wright had invented just a few years prior from a location less than 150 miles away! I suspect that every farm shop in the state was using them, that one of them with a little ingenuity thought he could iterate on them, and he did.

But I disagree with DATAMP. I credit Joseph Eifel. As I wrote in the Eifel section of the Curator's Corner #6 posted in my Lugzsonian thread on the topic of Other ("Not-Petersen") Locking Plier-Wrenches...

It may seem odd, at first, to cite Joseph Eifel’s famed geared (10-to-1 power ratio) “Plierench” as the first example of a locking plier-wrench type tool, something not even DATAMP does, but it’s kind of hard to argue against it.

It was patented (1,181,654 on May 2, 1916) earlier than their example (also a Not-Petersen) with text by Eifel that describes its function very deliberately as a “plier form wrench” that “will not tend to work open in handling” having “firmer engagement than is possible with any other form of wrench known to me” with “pressure applied when closing the mechanism” and “a means for releasably locking the jaws in position.”

On top of that, it is stamped “LOCKS THIS WAY <-” right on the head near the lower handle.

Lastly, Louis Isele, who patented the Seymour Smith "Snap-Lock" cited it in his application in 1948.

It is not toggle-actuated, it doesn’t have a spring, it doesn’t adjust with a knob, and it doesn’t look like a “Vise-Grip” or any knockoffs, but it absolutely is an adjustable locking plier-wrench, in name, and in function.

If you want to nerd out further, CC#6 is linked here.

 

[oldpliers1]

Unfortunately, casual (and even many serious...) collectors point to the first Wm. Petersen (of "Vise-Grip" fame), 1,392,443, in 1921. And they even have Wikipedia on their side! Because, well, Vise-Grips, in name and number, are like the Borg, and also like Kleenex, or, more aptly, "Crescent wrench". But DATAMP deftly credits Collison & Wright, 1,280,405 in 1918, made by Ord Mfg, in Ord, Nebraska.

If that reference to Nebraska makes your spidey-senses tingle, it should. What DATAMP - and apparently nobody other than yours truly seems to have theorized, is that it's asking the dang near impossible for us to think that William Petersen, of DeWitt, Nebraska, arrived at his locking plier-wrench design completely independent of the design that Mssrs Collison & Wright had invented just a few years prior from a location less than 150 miles away! I suspect that every farm shop in the state was using them, that one of them with a little ingenuity thought he could iterate on them, and he did.

But I disagree with DATAMP. I credit Joseph Eifel. As I wrote in the Eifel section of the Curator's Corner #6 posted in my Lugzsonian thread on the topic of Other ("Not-Petersen") Locking Plier-Wrenches...

If you want to nerd out further, CC#6 is linked here.

Thank you that was really educational, I checked out the CC#6 link, mole grip ? I had never heard that term , vise grip or known as Vice grips is the terminology in the Deep South Pacific. The term tongue and groove plier was new to me as they are known as Multi’s or Multi grips , a C wrench is a shifter or shifting spanner. And there are numerous other name differences. There are some Australian made locking pliers circa 1950s by obsolete tool makers that would sit nicely in your collection.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thank you that was really educational,

You're welcome! Glad you enjoyed it.

Mole grip ? I had never heard that term ,

It might be just a Great Britain thing. I'm not sure. If you Google it, you'll find all kinds of references.

Here's a summary I just purloined from a UK site:

A Brief History of Mole Grips - Wonkee Donkee Tools

A brief history of mole grips Shop for Mole Grips Early designs The first locking pliers were invented by William Petersen in De Witt, Nebraska around 1924. After arriving in the U.S. and setting up a blacksmith’s shop, Petersen must have required a tool that combined the gripping power of a...

www.wonkeedonkeetools.co.uk

In 1947, Thomas Coughtrie went to work for the Birmingham engineering company, M K Mole and Son, and, after the death of the joint managing directors and Mole brothers, became the managing director. In the 1950s Thomas Coughtrie patented his own version of the locking pliers and called them ‘Mole grips’. The name stuck and the tool became extremely popular with mechanics and engineers across the UK.

There are some Australian made locking pliers circa 1950s by obsolete tool makers that would sit nicely in your collection.

I'm sure there are. The idea can be found around the globe. I've added a few more US models since that write-up, but I'm not actively seeking them out, I just grab one whenever I run into a name or design I don't recognize in the wild, and I'm not trying to be exhaustive.

 

[oldpliers1]

You're welcome! Glad you enjoyed it.


It might be just a Great Britain thing. I'm not sure. If you Google it, you'll find all kinds of references.

Here's a summary I just purloined from a UK site:

A Brief History of Mole Grips - Wonkee Donkee Tools

A brief history of mole grips Shop for Mole Grips Early designs The first locking pliers were invented by William Petersen in De Witt, Nebraska around 1924. After arriving in the U.S. and setting up a blacksmith’s shop, Petersen must have required a tool that combined the gripping power of a...

www.wonkeedonkeetools.co.uk

In 1947, Thomas Coughtrie went to work for the Birmingham engineering company, M K Mole and Son, and, after the death of the joint managing directors and Mole brothers, became the managing director. In the 1950s Thomas Coughtrie patented his own version of the locking pliers and called them ‘Mole grips’. The name stuck and the tool became extremely popular with mechanics and engineers across the UK.



I'm sure there are. The idea can be found around the globe. I've added a few more US models since that write-up, but I'm not actively seeking them out, I just grab one whenever I run into a name or design I don't recognize in the wild, and I'm not trying to be exhaustive.

My dad left UK in the 50s and always called them vice grips, never mole, never exported to colony in any quantity.

 

[JMP]

Join the club! They came in three sizes: 7, 9, and 11. I have never seen an 11 in the wild, and consider it the rarest in my experience.

Definitely an underrated and largely unknown plier these days. I think I see why the 11 is less common. It is a rather large and unwieldly tool. I don't see myself finding much use for it yet around the house but perhaps a good option for larger metal working projects. The 9 is just perfect for me. I just used it to hold a small piece of hardened steel that I needed to grind on the new bench grinder.

 

[Outlawmws]

I have a pair of #7 BMC's I don't think I've ever actually used them, - Just one of 8 other non-vise Grip brands I have, but my "Go to" for general use gripping pliers is still the Channellock 910's - I've loved them since I bought a pair new at a race auction about 50 years back.
But for special use cases, VG is hard to beat, I have 20 different sizes/models of VG's., and I probably don't have them all.

 

[whitesco]

I might have a problem…

 

[d42jeep]

I don’t see a problem. Happy Thanksgiving.
-Don

 

[Farmer J.]

I don’t see a problem. Happy Thanksgiving.
-Don

I agree, NO problem with that plier collection!
Happy Thanksgiving to you too, and thank you for the reminder. We don't have a public holiday Thanksgiving here, but it's such a meaningful occasion I always try to do something special and mark the day, but then forget the date.
My Canadian relatives have a different date as well, just to confuse further! Hope you all have a great long weekend.

 

[Farmer J.]

I might have a problem…

That's a nice plier selection! It's nice to see tools all so clean too.
We're seeking full disclosure here, so, what is in the Craftsman Leatherette pouch?

 

[Outlawmws]

I might have a problem…

Go buy two more pair of pliers, do this daily, and call us when you are at 20X that amount.

 

[whitesco]

That's a nice plier selection! It's nice to see tools all so clean too.
We're seeking full disclosure here, so, what is in the Craftsman Leatherette pouch?

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

It’s a set of mini -liars like these (too lazy to go get them at the moment):

 

[Beerhippie]

Here are a couple of pliers that have have been around the shop as long as I can recall. I've never known what make they are (no marks whatsoever), but both have nicely done handle knurls:





Any ideas?

 

[Outlawmws]

Boy those grips are pretty distinctive. Timm, am I seeing a mark of some sort on the inside of the grip? I've been surprised how many I have ID'ed there instead of the obvious place to stamp them

 

[Beerhippie]

The gold ones--cad chromate?--have PAT cast on the inside of both handles--nothing else on either.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Any ideas?

The pair with the so-called herringbone pattern are definitely J.P. Danielson. No idea on the others.

 

[Beerhippie]

The pair with the so-called herringbone pattern are definitely J.P. Danielson. No idea on the others.

You mean the dark ones? I would describe both patterns as "herringbone".

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Yes, the dark finish.

 

[MisterEd]

I might have a problem…

Nope . . . no problem.

 

[JMP]

They just seem to be multi-plying...