The drive piece of the breaker looks the same size as that 5270 above it...optical illusion or is it a 3/8?Hey, I found a little 1/4" breaker bar and a few other Plomb things....
Mine is probably too small to break lug nuts
Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!
- Thread starter GRX
- Start date
Oldtuleguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2017
- Messages
- 10,453
genog
Well-known member
Not an illusion
Big Oooops on my part.
Sorry for the typo. It is indeed a 3/8" breaker bar.
RubiconJK
Well-known member
My 4766 in a group photo from a few years ago.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
What’s the part number on the hinge handle?You haven't????
Man, I am trying to wrap my head around that.
I thought you had every vintage hand tool ever made!
.....multiples of them
I have seen the pics!
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
No worries
. It’s caused my heart to do back flips a time or 2 when I spot one from far away at a swap only to have it be a 3/8. If it had been a 1/4 that would have been a seriously good score.d42jeep
Well-known member
Smokeshow generously sent me these additions to my small dual marked collection. Thanks for the greatly appreciated care package.
-Don
-Don
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
you bet! You have helped me out a few times in my tool quests so I was glad to return the favorSmokeshow generously sent me these additions to my small dual marked collection. Thanks for the greatly appreciated care package.
-Do
four.cycle
Well-known member
I pulled this out to take a couple photos... was considering unloading some stuff on ebay.... and I just noticed the little anchor thingie with "U S" on either side ... which appears to be STAMPED on the inside of the lid with a RUBBER STAMP. I never noticed it before.
The sockets and drive accessories appear to have a cad plating on them.
The ratchet is stamped "VC" but that isn't an indicator of anything, as it came from Don as part of a tradesies deal. (Don got the extra 4710 socket with appears in a couple of the earlier photos)
So.... what have I got here?
The sockets and drive accessories appear to have a cad plating on them.
The ratchet is stamped "VC" but that isn't an indicator of anything, as it came from Don as part of a tradesies deal. (Don got the extra 4710 socket with appears in a couple of the earlier photos)
So.... what have I got here?
Attachments
-
Plomb Tool 4700 1.4 dr SAE socket set 090823 01.jpg -
Plomb Tool 4700 1.4 dr SAE socket set 090823 02.jpg -
Plomb Tool 4700 1.4 dr SAE socket set 090823 03.jpg -
Plomb Tool 4700 1.4 dr SAE socket set 090823 04.jpg -
Plomb Tool 4700 1.4 dr SAE socket set 090823 05.jpg -
Plomb Tool 4700 1.4 dr SAE socket set 090823 06.jpg
I don’t know how tools were sold in the 40’s. There weren’t tremendous price differences between full sets and individual pieces. Did supply houses put sets together. I found these open ends in a time capsule tool box that hadn’t been touched since the sixties, and the original owner wasn’t a collector and seemed to buy things in sets. I wonder if this is what you walked out the door with if you bought a set in 1949?
d42jeep
Well-known member
d42jeep
Well-known member
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if those tools all came together in a 1949 set. I’m quite jealous of those!I don’t know how tools were sold in the 40’s. There weren’t tremendous price differences between full sets and individual pieces. Did supply houses put sets together. I found these open ends in a time capsule tool box that hadn’t been touched since the sixties, and the original owner wasn’t a collector and seemed to buy things in sets. I wonder if this is what you walked out the door with if you bought a set in 1949?
-Don
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
That’s an odd set but I suppose it’s possible. It contains pebble era, dual mark and finally some Proto la. I suppose it could be a ‘49 set but I am more inclined to say ‘50 or ‘51 given the Proto la tools? What does everyone else think?
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Cool find.
The Proto LA wrench can't be earlier than 1950. As for the Plomb MFD. wrenches, notice that the largest (3050) and smallest (3018) are full pebbles and don't have the electroplating rack burn marks. We don't know exactly when Plomb started using that rack, but some full pebble "MADE" wrenches show up with the marks, and they filed for the patent in December 1947. So, the 3050 and 3018 full pebbles are older than that, and much older than the others. It's possible those two were held over in unsold surplus for a few years, then combined with later production pebble field wrenches, but I would say highly unlikely. That was a time of massive growth for Plomb.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
If you're interested in reading more about that rack and seeing other examples...
Was there something between the dual brand and LA, or was the dual brand a two year duration?
Oldtuleguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2017
- Messages
- 10,453
Hard to say on the dual brand. I thought it was a one year deal
d42jeep
Well-known member
I have a dual marked adjustable wrench that I received from John Deere made in the former Danielson factory dated 1948. AA dates Proto LA tools from 1949 for what that’s worth. There is a 1949 dated conventional Proto catalog on Internet Archives thanks to mritchie.
-Don
Proto Tools : Catalog 4922-M : Plomb Tool Co. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
68 p., illus., 17.9 cm, trade catalog
archive.org
Last edited:
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
We've talked about the JPD adjustables many times before. When they were forged is indisputable. When they were stamped is not.
I have the same catalog on my hard drive, Don, down-loaded from the old TA years ago. That copy has a PL in the back. (Still not sure why all the old TA cats aren't on IA/ITCL, but that's another story.) Not sure what you mean by "conventional," but the only difference between Catalog 4820 and Catalog 4922-M is removing the Plomb Tool Company name from the flying lady logo on page 2. Plomb Tool Company appears on the bottom of the page instead. It also appears on the back cover. Catalog 4820 had already separated the names on the covers, every page, and the back cover. The only place Proto and Plomb Tool Co appear together in Cat 4820 is the flying lady logo and that's the only change from 4820 to 4922-M. Note that all the tool pages are identical and that none of the images of any tools have any markings, which is also true for a copy of Cat 4922-M that @Catfishdan owns with a PL dated March 1950.
Here is the 100% fact-based timeline from the tail end of my research and analysis, which can be found fully documented and discussed here.
- In March 1947 Plumb sued Plomb in an L.A. Federal district court and won; Plomb had a year (or until March 1948) to stop using its name as a trademark.
- On February 2, 1948, Plomb applied for a ‘PRVTV’ TM. The TM application was only for paper (catalogs, ads, tags, packaging, decals, etc).
(Note: AA completely misses this detail and uses this 'first use' date for the dual-marked tools, the erroneous source of a cascading system of flawed logic on their part.)
- On July 13, 1948, Plomb was awarded the ‘PRVTV’ TM, approved only for paper.
- In October 1948, Plomb started running ads consistent with their on-paper-only 'PRVTV' TM application, consistent also with Cat 4820.
- On November 16, 1948, Plumb sued Plomb again for contempt, and the court ordered Plomb to comply with the previous March 1947 order, and to pay Plumb any profits it made during the year after March 1948 (the date it was supposed to have complied by).
- In December 1948, Plomb closed down their plant to re-tool for a solution to the November 16, 1948 contempt lawsuit that Morris Pendleton called a temporary expedient estimated to cost $130,000.
- On December 14, 1948, Plomb applied for a ‘PROTO’ TM that it intended to use on paper and tools.
- In early January 1949, Plomb re-opened.
- Plumb immediately sued again. On January 13, 1949, Plomb lost, again, and Plomb was given until March 1950 to fully comply with the previous March 1947 court order to cease and desist using “Plomb” as a trademark.
- Throughout 1949 Plomb embarks on a massive advertising and merchandising education and conversion blitz introducing ‘PROTO Tools’.
Without telling anyone else what to think (i.e., form your own positions and interpretations...), I think it's fairly obvious.
Plomb completely ignored the first suit for nearly a whole year. A month before their March 1948 deadline, they applied for a TM for Prvtv, added it to their catalog, and started plastering it on decals and packages etc - note, everything except the tools themselves. A weak and hasty attempt to mollify Plumb. It didn't work. They shut down their plant over the holidays, reopened in 1949 with the expedient solution. What else could it be except the dual-marked tools?! Plumb and the courts were not impressed. They were given another year (until March 1950) to fully comply. While they were making and selling the dual-branded tools, they fully re-tooled across their plants to remove ‘Plomb’ completely, and that was Proto only LA.
I have the same catalog on my hard drive, Don, down-loaded from the old TA years ago. That copy has a PL in the back. (Still not sure why all the old TA cats aren't on IA/ITCL, but that's another story.) Not sure what you mean by "conventional," but the only difference between Catalog 4820 and Catalog 4922-M is removing the Plomb Tool Company name from the flying lady logo on page 2. Plomb Tool Company appears on the bottom of the page instead. It also appears on the back cover. Catalog 4820 had already separated the names on the covers, every page, and the back cover. The only place Proto and Plomb Tool Co appear together in Cat 4820 is the flying lady logo and that's the only change from 4820 to 4922-M. Note that all the tool pages are identical and that none of the images of any tools have any markings, which is also true for a copy of Cat 4922-M that @Catfishdan owns with a PL dated March 1950.
Here is the 100% fact-based timeline from the tail end of my research and analysis, which can be found fully documented and discussed here.
- In March 1947 Plumb sued Plomb in an L.A. Federal district court and won; Plomb had a year (or until March 1948) to stop using its name as a trademark.
- On February 2, 1948, Plomb applied for a ‘PRVTV’ TM. The TM application was only for paper (catalogs, ads, tags, packaging, decals, etc).
(Note: AA completely misses this detail and uses this 'first use' date for the dual-marked tools, the erroneous source of a cascading system of flawed logic on their part.)
- On July 13, 1948, Plomb was awarded the ‘PRVTV’ TM, approved only for paper.
- In October 1948, Plomb started running ads consistent with their on-paper-only 'PRVTV' TM application, consistent also with Cat 4820.
- On November 16, 1948, Plumb sued Plomb again for contempt, and the court ordered Plomb to comply with the previous March 1947 order, and to pay Plumb any profits it made during the year after March 1948 (the date it was supposed to have complied by).
- In December 1948, Plomb closed down their plant to re-tool for a solution to the November 16, 1948 contempt lawsuit that Morris Pendleton called a temporary expedient estimated to cost $130,000.
- On December 14, 1948, Plomb applied for a ‘PROTO’ TM that it intended to use on paper and tools.
- In early January 1949, Plomb re-opened.
- Plumb immediately sued again. On January 13, 1949, Plomb lost, again, and Plomb was given until March 1950 to fully comply with the previous March 1947 court order to cease and desist using “Plomb” as a trademark.
- Throughout 1949 Plomb embarks on a massive advertising and merchandising education and conversion blitz introducing ‘PROTO Tools’.
Without telling anyone else what to think (i.e., form your own positions and interpretations...), I think it's fairly obvious.
Plomb completely ignored the first suit for nearly a whole year. A month before their March 1948 deadline, they applied for a TM for Prvtv, added it to their catalog, and started plastering it on decals and packages etc - note, everything except the tools themselves. A weak and hasty attempt to mollify Plumb. It didn't work. They shut down their plant over the holidays, reopened in 1949 with the expedient solution. What else could it be except the dual-marked tools?! Plumb and the courts were not impressed. They were given another year (until March 1950) to fully comply. While they were making and selling the dual-branded tools, they fully re-tooled across their plants to remove ‘Plomb’ completely, and that was Proto only LA.
Catfishdan
Well-known member
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Clean that up with Grez-Off, and that paint may be better than you think?
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Took the words right out of my mouth, Outlaw. You have super high standards, Dan! That box is in terrific condition "as is". 90% covered, with very little rust or peeling. I see the surface rust on the lid around the logo. You may lose more paint there, but hopefully not too much. As a GMTK guy, I am always jealous when one of these mid- to late-40's flip lid jobbies show up. Haven't seen one in the wild yet.
four.cycle
Well-known member
earlier photos (in different light)
oops... I guess I forgot to hit "post reply" on this one yesterday.
so.... NAVY contract on this one, eh? funny I never noticed that stamp inside the lid until just yesterday.
oops... I guess I forgot to hit "post reply" on this one yesterday.
so.... NAVY contract on this one, eh? funny I never noticed that stamp inside the lid until just yesterday.
Attachments
four.cycle
Well-known member
Etchase said:
I wasn't around in the 1940s, but as a general observation that seems to have been the case in the 1950s and 1960s. If you bought the entire set, you'd save maybe $3 or $4. (look at early Craftsman catalogs that show the individual prices right next to the set prices.)
3baygarage
Well-known member
Very nice stuff gentlemen. And good to see you four.cycle.
This thread moves quick sometimes. Yesterday I thought of my little 4” dual marked adjustable wrench after Don posted his wrench.
This thread moves quick sometimes. Yesterday I thought of my little 4” dual marked adjustable wrench after Don posted his wrench.
3baygarage
Well-known member
They do appear to be the same. The digits might be.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
ehh, I'd be pretty stoked to find this in the wild! I have a few 100HR boxes but they are all the proto versions found in the wild.I haven’t found any good plomb stuff in ages it seems, but today I brought home this tool box from a local garage sale. The paint is not so good, but it has the tray and it’s relatively straight. It will hold some of my spares.
This is my proto la all cleaned up
(also if anyone really has some coin burning a hole in their pocket there is a dual marked 100hr on ebay now----)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3254453667...2|iid:1|vlpname:vlp_homepage&autorefresh=true
Attachments
bmwrd0
Well-known member
First of all; good to see you four.cycle! Been a while, hope all is well.
Nice stuff out there!
As far as Dan's box, take a razor, and gently use it to cut the raised rust off. Works really well.
Nice stuff out there!
As far as Dan's box, take a razor, and gently use it to cut the raised rust off. Works really well.
Catfishdan
Well-known member
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Not in your garage/Shop yet?
d42jeep
Well-known member
There are some differences between the Plomb and Dual Marked versions and your slightly newer Proto. The earlier boxes handle mounts are welded on and they have corner reinforcements that are discontinued on your Proto LA.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Oh boy
. It has the light and all the drawers. Is it down there by you? I wish it was up here by me! I’d be on it right awayMintgrun
Well-known member
I picked up one of these boxes a couple weeks ago. It's the first I've come across. There's red underneath the black paint and green underneath that. No dividers in the tray, but there is a hole for the oil can spout to poke through.
I saw the red paint and thought maybe Plomb, but then saw the green and figured it must be a military box. Seeing Don's box suggested that the green may have been Plomb paint, but the sticker on mine is larger than Don's and doesn't have the arched top. So, maybe it is a military box that someone put a bumper sticker on; unless Plomb used a variety of stickers and had trays without dividers.
They are nice heavy boxes.
Tom
I saw the red paint and thought maybe Plomb, but then saw the green and figured it must be a military box. Seeing Don's box suggested that the green may have been Plomb paint, but the sticker on mine is larger than Don's and doesn't have the arched top. So, maybe it is a military box that someone put a bumper sticker on; unless Plomb used a variety of stickers and had trays without dividers.
They are nice heavy boxes.
Tom
Nope, at least a six hour drive.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
I agree, those are some really nice heavy duty boxes. I don’t know much about these boxes but there are several really knowledgeable guys on here that know way more than I do, or perhaps have even written era correct guides for themI picked up one of these boxes a couple weeks ago. It's the first I've come across. There's red underneath the black paint and green underneath that. No dividers in the tray, but there is a hole for the oil can spout to poke through.
I saw the red paint and thought maybe Plomb, but then saw the green and figured it must be a military box. Seeing Don's box suggested that the green may have been Plomb paint, but the sticker on mine is larger than Don's and doesn't have the arched top. So, maybe it is a military box that someone put a bumper sticker on; unless Plomb used a variety of stickers and had trays without dividers.
They are nice heavy boxes.
Tom
. In the meantime you will want to check out the gmtk thread for tons of info on these!Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
@Mintgrun
Your fliptop is either a civilian Duplex (OEM for Plomb) or a military and wartime E.J. McAleer. Many McAleer's had the name stamped in them, but not all. It could be under all that paint. The number of hinge elements eliminates wartime Hamilton and several features eliminate wartime Union. Those were the only makers at that time. Unless you plan on retaining the black paint, I would see what that sticker is.
Your fliptop is either a civilian Duplex (OEM for Plomb) or a military and wartime E.J. McAleer. Many McAleer's had the name stamped in them, but not all. It could be under all that paint. The number of hinge elements eliminates wartime Hamilton and several features eliminate wartime Union. Those were the only makers at that time. Unless you plan on retaining the black paint, I would see what that sticker is.
bmwrd0
Well-known member
I forgot to put pictures of this up:
